Give Peace a Chance in Kashmir

ali1 #50
What took YOU so long to reply? Lack of `moral` fibre? Chronic paranoia has made you lose your wits. How does any amount of abuse piled on me personally make your point more meaningful? Do you know India has a billion people, a few million read the English newspapers and form opinions. What good will the most vile terminology you can find for all of them do for you?

``The parties that have a veto are GoP, GoI, APHC, not the individual components of APHC but the whole of it and the Hizbul``

No doubt. But that was exactly my point. GoP has these Lashkar-e-whichevers and Jaish-e-whoevers running wild in Pakistan gaining ground and funds for Kashmiri Islamic holy war while killing people in Kashmir. You may choose to live in magnificant ignorance and curse me as well, but meanwhile they loudly claim credit in Kashmir and in Pakistan, whether in mass-meetings in Karachi, Lahore or Islamabad for their `efforts` in Kashmir. This is not Indian `perfidy` making the connection here, its been all over the international (and credit be given , Pakistani) press. That the jihadi tail wags in the Hurriyat Conference is also a well known fact.

So spare me anymore hypocrisy about `any just settlement for Kashmiris will satisfy Pakistan` and `there is nothing Islamic about it` bs.

Sadhana

From The Hindu, Friday January 5, 2001:


Vajpayee invites Musharraf

By C. Raja Mohan

AFTER SHUNNING Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Chief Executive of Pakistan, for more than a year, the Prime Minister, Mr. Atal Behari Vajpayee, has finally offered to meet him under certain conditions. In his ``Musings from Kumarakom``, Mr. Vajpayee has extended an open-ended invitation for Gen. Musharraf to come to India. ``Show us you can rein in the Jihadis, and you are welcome here`` is the essence of Mr. Vajpayee`s message to Gen. Musharraf. It will be a while before we know if the General is ready to come to Delhi. But there is no question that Mr. Vajpayee has taken one more risky step forward in his search for peace with Pakistan.

Ever since he ousted the Nawaz Sharif Government and took charge in October 1999, Gen. Musharraf expressed two strong desires - one to meet Mr. Vajpayee at ``any time and any place`` and the other a serious discussion with India on the Kashmir dispute, which he said was lacking in the earlier peace initiative of Mr. Vajpayee at Lahore. Mr. Vajpayee is now saying he will meet both the demands of Gen. Musharraf, if Pakistan is willing to put the gun down.

To put it in Mr. Vajpayee`s own words: ``India is willing and ready to seek a lasting solution to the Kashmir problem. Towards this end, we are prepared to recommence talks with Pakistan at any level, including the highest level, provided Islamabad gives sufficient proof of its preparedness to create a conducive atmosphere for a meaningful dialogue``.


Please read the rest in The Hindu Opinion section

RE # 51

[``What took YOU so long to reply? Lack of `moral` fibre? ``]

I happen to have a LIFE.........and better things to do than post responses every 5 minutes :-)

[``So spare me anymore hypocrisy about `any just settlement for Kashmiris will satisfy Pakistan` and `there is nothing Islamic about it` bs.``]

Please don`t put words in my mouth. I never said there is nothing Islamic about it; just that Islamists do not have a veto over a final Kashmir settlement. And yes they have tried, unsuccessfully so far, to use their exploits in Kashmir to boost their political fortunes in Pakistan. Check the results of the latest local body polls if you will.

Dear Ras (Reply # 36):

I think we are agreed on the major points I have brought up; the big difference, though, is in the quality of wishful thinking. Perhaps because I live closer to the scene of action than you. I am in no way casting aspersions on your ability to understand the situation. You could, in fact, be more objective…but please do not turn your face away from the larger political game being played. The pandits in the US will naturally not agree with me. For that matter, few people will, the assumption being that I am all for a “jeans legs shooting culture”. (My leg would be among the first to go. And just, btw, in urban Bombay the moral police had problems with two veejays kissing, so let us not be hypocritical – each ‘culture’ will want to inflict its values.)

I think the real problem with my post was the statement, “The Pandits have left the Valley because of insecurity and political arm-twisting and not due to any pressure from the local population or the militants. (They are not singled out for attack.)”

Two points have been raised: Have I been in touch with the militants to know who they single out for attack? No, I have not. The other is my ignorance about what really happened with the pandits.

I am not an authority, but let me just provide a few details: Yes, there has been an exodus of pandits. It happened quite suddenly when they opened the papers one day and found the announcement, “Flee Kashmir within 48 hours”. This was done in editorial offices (a lot of sneaky things happen there!). There was panic and they started leaving.

You might be interested in knowing that Hindus held 90 % of central government jobs in Kashmir. Therefore, after this mass exodus, many offices just shut shop.

The pandits have always had a strong lobby at the Centre – people like T.N.Kaul and M.L.Fotedar, the kingmaker. So, while they could practice ‘peace’, the communalism was extremely subtle on their part. The militants, Muslims of Kashmir, chose overt violence. Neither history nor contemporary politics has been kind to them.

I completely agree with you that “Partition has to be completed in Kashmir”, but I only hope that Pakistan does not lay claims over it.

You said, “They don’t call us ‘Tikka Boti’ people for nothing!” I do not know what that means, but it sure sounds delicious. I think I can live with it. Unless, kachcha chaba jayenge…

Regards,

Farzana

ali 1 (Reply #23):

Thank you for expressing your concern. Yes, my “widely read” column of 11 years was dropped without prior intimation. And do not tell me about how things are done in the US, for if I were to follow that principle, people would be in deep s-h-i-t here. I must admit I did have second thoughts about responding to you on this Board, but I did not start it, so I guess it is perfectly legitimate and also fair to you (Ras, “tikka boti” ka sawaal hain, ok?); as you are aware, I had ample opportunity to do make a noise about it on my Boards were I the type. All I can say is there are kinds and kinds of people, and if I start stooping to their level, how different will I be? Incidentally, those who titter about my “anti-establishment” credentials had insisted on using the bottomline, “Farzana Versey refuses to sit on the fence…” in their paper! You are right about the misuse of a public forum, but I can only feel sorry for them. In fact, I admire the fact that Chowk can convert cowards, who do not have the guts to personally inform someone about their intentions, into gloating “sackers”. Just one small point: I have been an independent columnist who wrote with the courage of her convictions, so my column can be done away with. I cannot be “sacked”. Only employees, and that includes editors, can be.

Anyway, ‘The Soft Option’ was earmarked for my regular column. I came to Chowk to surf for the first time and just submitted my article here by default. It has been precisely one month of my association here. And what an eventful time it has been. Caution? Me? No, that is for wimps and media puppets posing as poseurs.

As for the rest: RIP.

Regards,

Farzana

Krashid (Reply # 38)

There is an Arab saying, “Trust in God, but tie your camel.” I seem to have forgotten how to tie my camel.

You have stated, “Being a Muslim, have faith in God and do and say what your conscience says. Not what political expediency says.” I have always followed my conscience (it is my only ‘ibaadat’) and I do not follow the dictates of political expediency ever.

I do, however, appreciate your sentiments, but unlike you my faith in god is a bit shaky. If you do have a hotline, will you put in a word for me? And for every Kashmiri, and for every group that is being sidelined and played around with? There is no sarcasm here, please. Let me end with this quotation: “The worst moment for an atheist is when he feels grateful and he has no one to thank.”

PS: Re your first post to me at my Board. Thanks for informing me about crossing the 500 mark on two Boards. Believe me, I had no idea about what to expect. But do surprises ever cease?

Regards,

Farzana

#53
`` I happen to have a LIFE.........and better things to do than post responses every 5 minutes :-)``

I congratulate you. I am in a happy position to free up some more of your time for the good things in life by informing you that the hydra-headed monster you are looking for is not myself. I post only under the name `sadna` on chowk(or elsewhere) and am an ordinary Indian citizen.

`` Islamists do not have a veto over a final Kashmir settlement.And yes they have tried, unsuccessfully so far, to use their exploits in Kashmir to boost their political fortunes in Pakistan. Check the results of the latest local body polls if you will.``

I am happy on Pakistanis` behalf to hear this. And we seem to be on the same wavelength. I hope you will reread my original post #31 and agree that my opinions expressed there are perfectly valid.

If jihadi or even plain vanilla Islamic organisations have no clout with the general Pakistani public, they have no business to be at the frontlines of Pakistan`s India policy. Moreover learned Pakistani men of letters have no business citing the potentially desteructive threats of these jihadi/Islamic organisations on Pakistan`s polity(and India`s internal security) and Musharraf`s inability to rein them in, as reasons to pressurize Indians.

Sadhana

http://server35.hypermart.net/thefridaytimes
Current issue
Pakistan army and militant Islam
Khaled Ahmed

Speaking of wishful thinking, the following eye opener from the TOI today at :

http://www.timesofindia.com/today/06indi1.htm

Feroz, I guess I was wrong. Where are you these days by the way? And Bilal remains silent?
Very interesting!

RE: Farzana # 54: Thanks for the additional info on the Pandits. But the fact remains that they are homeless and we need to listen to their point
of view.
On the ``Tikka Boti`` issue, believe me, I was not
referring to the delicious nature of the end product but what our people do to the animals before they get to the ``Tikka Boti`` stage!
Be careful out there. You can`t even praise a
recently dead singer these days without getting
some people worked up.

Ras

Ras (Reply #58):

I had to squirm while watching Dr. Farooq Abdullah on TV completely rubbish the Hurriyat. If you say that the APHC is the de facto medium for the moment, how can you agree to Abdullah’s tantrums? When he had broached the subject of autonomy for Kashmir, I had mentioned that one should go along because it was a step forward. I quite forgot that he was merely a politician.

I respect what you have to say about listening to the point of view of the Pandits who have been rendered homeless, but then we have to take into account many others, like the Dogras and also the Ladakhis who have grievances of their own, and valid ones at that.

“Be careful out there,” you say. Come, come now, you don’t want to be accused of protecting a ‘minority’, do you?! At least here there is no ‘real’ censorship. And if you will excuse a small diversion…

CHOWK CAN TAKE A BOW!

After my post# 55 appeared, ‘that’ paper – after one month of dithering – has summoned the guts to finally publish a letter from a reader who was wondering where I was. (Most of the mail was discarded, according to informed sources.) I had made a special request at the time of the “event”, a boorish use of language in this context, that a note should be inserted saying that my column had been spiked, for I did not want people to assume I had copped out under pressure of controversies. Now, at last the letter-writer is informed that my column has been discontinued. Well, had it been done on the initiative of the people concerned I would have said, “Bravo! Der aaye par duroost aaye.” But the perfect timing makes it clear that it was a mere reaction by someone who has been frantically surfing this website! I can, therefore, only thank Chowk. Here’s looking at you…

Farzana

Ras

#58

The BJP is just about as sincere about making peace as the L-e-T is. This concept about ``peace with honor`` is a farce. It means different things to different groups. There will be a big show about peace talks. They will inevitably break down & each side will blame the other about insincerety.

Unfortunately the divisions between Indians & Pakistanis are just about as deep & irreconcilable as the Isrealis & Palestinians. I just hope that violence wont erupt to the point of an all out war.

Ms. Versey #55, #59

Thanks for responding. Now I understand why so few Indian christians or muslims interact on chowk: Retribution can be swift and painful.

However, it also keeps the TNT alive and that gives me hope.........130 million Klashnikovs anyone?

Again, I thank God and Jinnah for Pakistan!

Farzana, can`t you sue the dhoti clads at that publication?

Dear Ms. Versey :

The Kashmiri Pandits that I have had conversations with all state that they were driven out of the valley by terrorists. When some tried to go back, they were warned by their Muslim neighbors that they would be inevitable targets for the terrorists.

Shed your persecution complex -- I think ylh has suffered more abuse than anyone else on these boards, but he keeps on coming back.

-Arun Gupta

ali1 #61
``However, it also keeps the TNT alive and that gives me hope.........130 million Klashnikovs anyone? ``

And I thought TNT was about passports?

btw, I remember clearly your interactions on chowk with another Indian Muslim who made the mistake of being a Ahmediya in your presence. Going by your sentiments expressed then, you definately need fewer than 130 million guns, or you may just land in hot water.

Sadhana

Farzana #55

I did not say to you. Believe in religion.

I said believe in God.

Once God is with you, you will overcome all the odds.

Not in the proper sense. But you can be a kind of atheist in your approach and still have firm belief in God.

More like Spinoza or Averroes.

Peace in Kashmir? How can there be peace in Kashmir when even a Hurriyat leader has to be provided with security by India? Why did he need security? Well, after returning from Pakistan he went on a tirade against Jihadi militants/terrorists. If the past is any indicator, the Pakistani terrorists will not think twice about blowing him up, as they have any MUSLIM who has spoken against them. So much for Muslim brotherhood.

________________________________________

Lone gets Z security

Mukhtar Ahmad in Srinagar

``A leading light of the separatist conglomerate Abdul Ghani Lone has been accorded Z security by the National Conference Government.

Lone had launched a tirade against militants, especially foreigners, after his return from Pakistan last month.

A top police source said that a high level meeting in Jammu on Friday was convened by the state intelligence chief, to asses the threat perception of the senior leader of the All Party Hurriyat Conference. The meeting was attended by senior police and state security officials.

``He has been categorised as a Z security person, like ministers of the National Conference,`` said the official.

Lone will immediately be provided a bullet proof car and two bullet proof escorts.

Security at his Rawalpora residence has also been beefed up.

State security is rushing another platoon of the state armed police to his residence. The Rawalpora residence of the Peoples Conference leader is presently guarded by armed policemen.

Sources said that it will now depend on Lone whether he would like the state armed police or the paramilitary Central Reserve Police Force.

The state authorities were worried about his security after his recent statements. ``

sadna # 63

Correct me if the following is not accurate.

- an indian muslim journalist (Ms Versey) posts her articles on chowk. Her opinions are different from mainstream Hindu India. e.g. her view on pandits etc.

- she is abused by almost all the Hindu interactors on this forum (mad cow, go to Afghanistan etc.)

- she is `sacked` by the Hindu editor of a publication she has been contributing to for 11 years.

- the Hindu editor announces this accomplishment on chowk, ostensibly he is pleased that he has dealt with a muslim who had forgotten her place.

- none of you i.e. the Hindus, has so far condemned the victimization of an Indian Muslim for expressing her views. I think you are as happy as the bigot who did the sacking.