The Islamist and Hindutva Politics: Identities of Outlook and Objectives

Harimau #267 #268 #269 #270 #....aaaaaargghhhh

Your use of disgusting language with people who disagree with your views indicates that you grew up in a gutter where abusive language was the norm. So excuse me if I refuse to engage in any serious discussion with you.

Descendants of rapists and invaders, answer this question. Hindu-apologists, try if you can.

With increased mobility and communication, with mosques blaring out the Prophet`s love for all humanity as opposed to Hinduism`s social discrimination, how many Dalits of India (they are supposed to be around 30%) of the population have converted to Islam? You still expect me to believe in the nonsense about illiterate peasants falling for sophisticated religious talk from fakirs and sufis and converting en masse to the invader`s religion?

How come among the evrybody-is-equal Islamic society in Sindh, you have castes? How come you have Jats, Rajputs among the Muslims? Isn`t everybody equal?

How come among Christians in India caste is still practiced?

So, in what way the lower castes liberated from their Hindu oppressors by becoming the followers of the One True Faith?

Harimau, I don`t understand what you want. Do you want the Temple to be built in Ayodhya?

Is it okay with you if you were the target of the revenge for the anti-sikh riots in 1984. After all the sikhs are entitled to their pound of Hindu flesh.

I am not talking about affirmative action (it is required and is NOT an injustice against upper castes). I am talking about the dalits destroying temples because they were not allowed to enter them for a millenium.

Harimau # 267

Harimau, I fully understand where you are coming from. I dont grudge you for what you have said and here are the reasons.

- In a country like India which has been conquered over and over again, it must be difficult for the Hindus to get over their sense of inadequacy.

- It must be devastating to ask yourself: Why couldn`t you stop a few thousand Afghans or Brits from ruling over your sorry arses? Are you eunuchs? Is it bad genes or a protein deficient diet?

- Nothing can be worse than not being sure about your ancestry. What did the barbaric Afghans do to your grandmother? Where did your brown eyes come from, was it a turk or a mongol? green eyes? the rapist must be a Brit or a Portuguese then!

I am sure these questions enrage you and I am sure you curse your forefathers for rolling over for every barbarian who crossed the Khyber. I have nothing but sympathy for you.

wisecomments #262

I dont have a problem if muslims hand over a mosque or two to hindus to promote harmony etc. in India. I am not sure if this is religiously all right but would think it is based on my limited understanding of the religion.

However, please keep in mind that the dispute was in court and the litigants were engaged in negotiations on the sidelines when the mosque was pulled down in 1993. You neeed good faith to negotiate which I dont think is there on part of the Sangh Parivar and Muslims regocgize that very well.

I think more than building the temple the BJPites need to feel that ``we are not eunuchs`` (Khusha Bhai Thakre). Tearing down the mosque and killing muslims was the real kick for them! Handing over mosques will not solve this problem.

Harimau,

{{Where the hell is Farzana Versey? Moved to Kabul to work for Afghan women`s welfare? Where the hell are the Pakistanis who have been calling us Hindus penis worshippers? Gone to harvest opium?

Where the hell are the Hindu apologists? Why don`t you respond except to say we need to turn the other cheek? Do you have the guts to say that Muhammed is a child molester?}}

All of us have gone to the bathroom to puke after reading your rantings.

Reply #: 260 shankar wrote:

``At the same time, he says any peace agreement signed by Musharraf will be tantamount to him signing his resignation.``

Nothing could be further from the current situation. Musharraf is not coming out swinging these days and is very much in a negotiating mood in spite of pressure from the ``armies of God``.

you added:

``If that is the case what is the point of talking to Musharraf? Obviously, there will be a big show of peace talks which will be deadlocked.``

If all three parties come to the table with an open mind, a solution to this promblen can be found.

And finally:

``At which point both sides will go back & proclaim to their respective nations (& the world) that the other is not interested in peace & the same damn thing is going to go on & on.``

Nobody has the luxury of maintaining this bloody status quo. There is no sane alternative to peace
in Kashmir. There will be rocky days during the negotiations but the matter is urgent and explosive enough to warrant that nobody leaves the table permanently. That is the only reason I am optimistic.

Ras

Harimau,

And will you join others in promoting retribution to the people who were involved in the murder of innocent Muslim women children and men post Ayodhya. Your beloved Fascist politicians who want to sow hatred?

You dont give a toss about 1984, because you happily walk a path that will lead to more pain and death.

The point I was making was that your mindset leads to people getting killed today and now for the sake of your inadequacies, these Muslims have nothing to do with what Aurengzeb and his ilk did.

I will suggest to you Harimau that when you feel the lick of cool steel against your neck or the heat of your mothers/fathers/wifes/sons/daughters body combusting or smell the decomposing corpse of your brother or sister from those who seek retribution for past injustices rendered by ``your type``, in that moment you will realise the utter moral depravity of what you are saying.

It is random isnt it? And if it happens it will happen because of YOU.....

But of course, it isnt your fault, you just want the innocents to pay for your inferiority and inadequacy.

You are pathetic.

Get over it Harimau

Ref MaheshG #: 245

[are you an upper caste Hindu?]

None of your business, but you can guess the answer.

[How would you feel if all the lower castes got together for revenge against the upper castes for all the unfair treatment meted to them over the centuries? Do you want the descendants of upper caste Hindus to pay for what their ancestors did?]

When I have been denied admission to professional colleges because of my caste, when my children are now being denied admission to professional colleges, I can very well say that I have, willingly or unwillingly, paid the price. And if the affirmative action continues for another 1000 years, I wouldn`t have a problem with it. That is because I do not accept defeat at the hands of those lesser than me. (Before you misinterpret this, I mean the politicians by this. Jeez, there are times when you have to spell out EVERY single thing.)

Ref Harpreet #: 256

[I personally as a Sikh would like to take a Kirpan and chop off a load of Congressite Hindu heads in retaliation for the 1984 riots.]

I shall cheer you for rendering justice to the innocent victims of the 1984 riots. My reaction when I heard of Indira Gandhi`s death was: `She had it coming`.

[You scoundrel, you insult their religion]

What did I do? Did I call them penis worshippers? If I did, they should be upset because they obviously aren`t. You mean I referred to Ayesha, the 9-year-old wife of Prophet Muhammad? That is a historical fact. The major debate at Al Azhar University is at what age the marriage was consummated. Don`t believe me? Ask the resident experts on Islam.

Everybody, including Sikhs, get so annoyed but nobody has an answer to one single question I have asked.

Ref dost-mittar #: 263

[Are you a Pakistani agent planted on Chowk?]

Ha, ha, ha. The typical `foreign hand` evoked by India everytime their incompetence causes a major tragedy. You have learnt well at the feet of the leftists.

[Your rants are worse than those of the worst of the lunatic fringe of the Sangh parivaar.]

But you have no answer to my questions, do you? Because it is so uncomfortable to face questions that will produce answers that you don`t WANT TO KNOW?

[If India follows your proposal, it will be in a civil war much worse than anything ISI can dream of. And will soon dengenerate into talbinisation of the country.]

Read my posts with a cool head and tell me what I have proposed. Bilal Ahmad is the only person who could see that I have proposed NOTHING and asked what it is that I want. You all have your typical knee-jerk reaction of `let us not hurt the sentiments of those who historically have killed us and raped our women`.

[BTW when you send all muslims to Pakistan, how will you make sure that Dr.Kalam doesn`t take all your nuclear secrets and missile plans with him?]

Identify ONE post where I sent all Muslims to Pakistan?

All of you Hindu-apologists and Muslim moderates, read your good brother`s statement on what Allah has commanded.

-----Begin Quote-----

adnan_672 #: 261

take time out to read thru the quran

most of wht u have criticized

as ideological consensus of the Islamists

are the commands of allah

ignorant pseudo intellectuals speak without sound knowledge of religion are as bad as mullahs who speak on science without knowledge of science

spare us from ur half baked ideas

-----End Quote-------

Yes, kill the kaffirs, take their women as your concubines, marry 9-year-olds. The heavens belongs to those who destroy places of idol worship. While you are at it, kill the Shias and the Qadianis. Allah also commands you to grow and sell opium.

Ref tahmed321 #: 265

[Harimau: I feel your pain, brother. You expected Pakis to get mad, but not fellow Indians as well, I bet.]

I knew damn well you Pakistanis had no answer to any of my questions. And I had no doubt that the Hindu-apologists would come out in larger swarms to wring their hands, try to ``reason with`` me, and point out the error of my ways. Instead they should send their sisters and daughters to get raped by the thugs called Islamists and derive joy from it.

[Too bad for you, and one strike in favor of goodwill and good sense in the sub-continent.]

What is good sense? Sending armed thugs to kill pilgrims? Of course I know the answer: they are not true Muslims. Well, let me tell you, they got educated in the best madrassahs you guys can provide.

[Would you think it is time for some introspection and soul-searching? (our mullahs could use a lot of that too, incidentally).]

And time for Muslims to vacate Ayodhya, Mathura and Benares and go live some place else. No, they are Indian citizens and have all the rights? What rights did these guys provide Hindus during 1000 years of their rule?

Ref ali1 #: 248

[Advani, Vajpayee, Murlimanohar Joshi, Uma Bharti and Narsihma Rao should have their behinds whipped to pulp at the Feroz Shah Kotla ground.

Once done, they can come sit on some side walk in the Jamia Masjid area so that people passing by can spit on or kick the pulp to complete the atonement.]

Jinnah`s bones should be dug up, mixed with other food and fed to dogs. The dog excrement should be re-buried in the mausoleum in Karachi for Pakistanis to worship and to serve as a reminder that their country is worth just that.

It took an immigrant Sindhi like Advani to destroy the structure erected by that invader. No namby-pamby Indian had the b_lls.

Shankar #260

This is real problem.

As long economic condition and opportunity does not increase in Pakistan, the lower middle class with deep religious feeling and reward in this world and hereafter is going to recruit more and more more people.

In India also I think, the poverty alleviation and economic opportunity is needed. (Although I have much less knowledge on India).

The problem of Kashmir in my opinion needs to be seen through the eye of Kashmiri, rather than Pakistan or India.

But as saying goes that in the fight of elephant it is the field which suffers.

Harimau: I feel your pain, brother. You expected Pakis to get mad, but not fellow Indians as well, I bet. Too bad for you, and one strike in favor of goodwill and good sense in the sub-continent. Would you think it is time for some introspection and soul-searching? (our mullahs could use a lot of that too, incidentally).

Pankaj: That is a great quote from Tagore ``the clear stream of logic losing it`s way in the desert of dead habit``. I`ll try to remember it. It could come in handy with some folks on chowk...