The Islamist and Hindutva Politics: Identities of Outlook and Objectives

ali1#

I don`t mind including Murali Manohar and Uma Bharti in the list.

Why cannot we have a greater standard for Indian Muslims too? Why can`t Indian Muslims say we will give up some old Mosques that remind you of cruelty done to Hindus (If you don`t know the dispute exists from 1850 and not a recent one)? Why should there be proove needed for every old Mosque, specially when it is in a sacred place like Ayodhya? (Don`t say religion prevents you. Religion always encourages sacrifice for love. You can ask us to sacrifice Ayodhya for peace, but compare the importance of Ayodhya for Hindu, with a Babri Mosque to a Muslim.).

Why do you have to punsih all the Hindus by denying a temple for what Sanghparivar did? Isn`t it wrong to punish some body else for what Babur might have done?

You want to worship in a place built by a person like Babur (agreed he was a great king but was certainly not lover of peace but war) and flog a peaceful person like Vajpayee.

Indian communal problem will change, if the Indian Muslims says ``We will not worship in any old Mosques that Hindus think are built by cruel Moghuls. Just give us the names.`` AND

if the Indian Hindus replies ``No problem. Keep worshipping on all of them. Now the mosques will remind us of love you showed, and not the cruelty some extinct king did. We would just like to build the Ram temple and you can have a mosque beside it.``

I am dreaming.

(Practically I think, it is a bad idea to have a small mosques beside Temple, as instead of reminding of love, mostly it reminds of the negotiations done to build the temple.)

Harimau

Alas you haven`t answered any of the questions that I raised. Please at least clearly spell out who are your enemies. Ghazanvi, Timur, Aurangzeb who left the earth for hell centuries back, or the innocent Muslims of Modern India. Who do you want to kill and why? What is your criteria of being a Hindu. Is it being able to kill your fellow Muslim! And that too because they are in minority. This is abject cowardice, my friend and not heroism. Why dont you go and recruit your own force of jihad and fight against crazy jihadis. Why should living atone for the crimes of the dead. *Sigh * cool down and do not let the clear stream of logic loose its way into the dreary desert of dead habit, to quote Tagore.

Dear Bilal#255

Indian Muslims are Indian citizens entitled to enjoy their inalienable constitutional rights as any other group. They do *NOT NEED * to do anything to please Harimau or others of his type.

Sincerely

take time out to read thru the quran

most of wht u have criticized

as ideological consensus of the Islamists

are the commands of allah

ignorant pseudo intellectuals speak without sound knowledge of religion are as bad as mullahs who speak on science without knowledge of science

spare us from ur half baked ideas

Ras,

#259

At your request I read that article in the Statesman. He seems to convey to me that the fundo power is rising alarmingly in Pakistan & Musharraf is getting nervous. Before long their political, economic & street power will overwhelm the army. So now is the window of opportunity to pick up the phone. At the same time, he says any peace agreement signed by Musharraf will be tantamount to him signing his resignation.

If that is the case what is the point of talking to Musharraf? Obviously, there will be a big show of peace talks which will be deadlocked. At which point both sides will go back & proclaim to their respective nations (& the world) that the other is not interested in peace & the same damn thing is going to go on & on.

Any comments?

From The Statesman (Calcutta) today:

Pick up that phone Vajpayee!

http://www.thestatesman.org/page.editorial.php3?id=7592&theme=A

Ras

India might be feeling big and strong after the bombs but what Thakre and Harimanu need is Viagra to have the same feeling. Good luck Mannu, and stop writing Hari in front of your name. Mannu describes your personality pretty well.

Shammi has quoted: in the reply section of Bilal Ahmed`s article (reply # 515)
http://www.chowk.com/bin/showr.cgi?bahmad_oct182000

From The Dawn, Jan. 15, 2001
What price Jihad culture?
By Afzaal Mahmood

Harimau, and others, it`s not the opinions of common people like u or I that matter...it`s indication of things mentioned in this article..that scare me. This article (quoted by Shammi -- or can be read in The Dawn), talks of terrorism, jehadi camps and international concerns over it.

While you and i argue about who did what to who, and who should do what now so that it`s all even (sounds like 6 year olds talking -- you took my blue piece of gum, so now you have to give me your red piece, otherwise i won`t be your friend) the world around us and the things we hold dear...dies a slow death.

in mourning.
Brat

Shammi has quoted: in the reply section of Bilal Ahmed`s article (reply # 515)
http://www.chowk.com/bin/showr.cgi?bahmad_oct182000

From The Dawn, Jan. 15, 2001
What price Jihad culture?
By Afzaal Mahmood

Harimau, and others, it`s not the opinions of common people like u or I that matter...it`s indication of things mentioned in this article..that scare me. This article (quoted by Shammi -- or can be read in The Dawn), talks of terrorism, jehadi camps and international concerns over it.

While you and i argue about who did what to who, and who should do what now so that it`s all even (sounds like 6 year olds talking -- you took my blue piece of gum, so now you have to give me your red piece, otherwise i won`t be your friend) the world around us and the things we hold dear...dies a slow death.

in mourning.
Brat

Harimau:

Where did you come from?

You think destroying Mosques is going to solve Indias problems?

Sorry to say this but you and your kind are the worst type of people who will keep India backwards and in poverty.

You think you are big and hard because India has the bomb? Do you think persecuting Muslims will make India great?

You ignorant little boy....

I tell you what, after you have finished ridding India of all her Islamic past, I personally as a Sikh would like to take a Kirpan and chop off a load of Congressite Hindu heads in retaliation for the 1984 riots. Who`s going to stop me? You better watch out because I swing high and low..... I will of course not forget to kill lots of women and children. They will have to pay for the sins of.....eerrrr.... Congressite Gandhiites, or something, anyway, I can organise for someone to rape the women of course.....better make sure you`re not in the way man, wrong place at the wrong time.....

Then we`ll let every Dalit who has been opressed throughout the centuries take their pound of flesh, that should be fun.....

Any remaining mussulman can be encouraged to take a pot-shot at Punjabis for what they did at partition as well.

Hhhmmmm..... this sounds like fun.

Now do you feel big and strong?

You scoundrel, you insult their religion, I suggest you look at yourself before pointing the finger..... you are exactly what you rant and rave at them being, an inadequate little bigot, a small man..... go and say those things to a Muslims face, IF YOU DARE. But you wont because you are a coward.

Now get over your pathetic inadequacies. It seems YOU are the castrated one, only a deeply inadequate person could spout so much hatred.

And wash your mouth out

BAI SHARAAM

now give me your best insult Adolf, make me laugh..........

In response to harimau (Misc. posts)
Dear Harimau:

You indeed are a very angry person. What should the Indian Muslims do to make you happy such that they could live in peace and harmony with you (and other angry persons like you)?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. All other interactors, my post is directed toward Harimau only.

Tahmed

thank you for your kind words. I respect and enjoy your posts among many others here at Chowk. I just wish there was a way of properly representing both Pakistan and India...so no one person could stand up and claim to know it all.

I like your suggestion...let them fight each other..would save us a whole lot of trouble...and we`d have a good laugh ;) with each calling to their religion to give them strength! And calling to who? The same POWER that makes us all breathe! And I guess ``god`` will have a good laugh too.
take care...
Brat

Tahmed

thank you for your kind words. I respect and enjoy your posts among many others here at Chowk. I just wish there was a way of properly representing both Pakistan and India...so no one person could stand up and claim to know it all.

I like your suggestion...let them fight each other..would save us a whole lot of trouble...and we`d have a good laugh ;) with each calling to their religion to give them strength! And calling to who? The same POWER that makes us all breathe! And I guess ``god`` will have a good laugh too.
take care...
Brat

Brat #249 Good post. Always a pleasure to read your posts, as I recall from our earlier interaction.

harimau #246 You write: ``Only one man had it right after the nuclear tests: Khushabau Thakre who said, ``We have proved we are not eunuchs.`` ``

If it takes a nuclear test to prove that you are not a eunuch, then it seems to me you and your BJP buddies are very insecure individuals.

Here is a suggestion, since you are obviously fervent in your beliefs: Pick up a gun and go and fight our (Paki) mullahs? The rest of us (Pakis and Indians) can then sit and watch the two birds (Hindu bigots and Paki bigots) get rid of one another, and we wont have to use even one stone for that purpose.

MaheshG

I agree...YAY for BADLA...let`s show the world how much bloodshed we can cause....let`s show these damn Muslims Harimau that we can kill...anything everything...and we`re strong and we can build temples...and we can...hold on. What are you saying? We`re still not great?
Let`s drop the Atomic bomb on the world...that seems to bring greatness for sure...
Brat

MaheshG

I agree...YAY for BADLA...let`s show the world how much bloodshed we can cause....let`s show these damn Muslims Harimau that we can kill...anything everything...and we`re strong and we can build temples...and we can...hold on. What are you saying? We`re still not great?
Let`s drop the Atomic bomb on the world...that seems to bring greatness for sure...
Brat