A World Upside Down

Ref tahmed321 #: 318

[You must be leading a pathetic life to be so full of hate for Pakistanis.]

If flying all over Central and South America and meeting people of different cultural backgrounds is a pathetic life, I will have to agree with you. I am sure, cultural enrichment for you is listening to the local mullah spew hate during Friday prayers. Oh, please tell me again how in Islam there is no professional priesthood. I love all these theoretical concepts that you trot out whenever you thugs are caught in heinous acts of destruction of human life and culture.

[Once you gave me an excuse that you were only reacting to posts by pakistanis. several months later, I see that you were merely kidding yourself - you are a self-starting hate-mongerer.]

That was how it started. And I kept my peace long enough. But the horrific attacks on the WTC and your caveats (`It is a terrible act but American support of Israel.....` sh!t that you all have trotted out over the last 30 days) even as you all pretend to be nice folks who condemn attacks on civilians make it very clear that Islamic thuggery has no bounds as have Islamic sophistry and hypocrisy.

[You will also see another post from me further elaborating on this matter for your reading pleasure on the first article.]

Why don`t you just organize a circle-jerk during the next Friday night prayers? It ought to bring pleasure to you and relief to your spouse.

Pakistanis

Start believing PTV again. Evil Indian government is again trying to malign Pakistan.

CD 7444 ‘hijacked’ again by hoax callers

Swati Chaturvedi

(New Delhi, October 13) (HindustanTimes)





Anonymous callers tried to provoke Indian civil aviation into another round of nervous reaction this afternoon, barely 10 days after the hoax that led to the ``comedy of terror``.

Investigators suspect it to be the work of the same set of callers who pushed the nation to an edge on October 3.

Two calls were made to the number 5671197 at the Alliance Air office in Delhi at 3.30 pm and 3.48 pm, warning that the airline`s Mumbai-Delhi flight CD-7444, scheduled for 11 pm, ``would this time be hijacked for real``.

This is the same telephone number on which the hoax call was made the first time. The warning was also about the same flight.

The response appeared more controlled this time. The watch supervisory officer who received the calls immediately informed the Commissioner, Bureau of Civil Aviation Security, and the airlines top brass. This information was promptly relayed to the IB chief KP Singh. And the Crisis Management Group (CMG) was also briefed.

This time the investigators were luckier. One of the callers was a woman, while the other seemed a child. The calls were traced to a mobile number (9837229447) in Bajpur, UP. This is a cash card number, and investigators have not been able to identify the user yet. However, the several calls made from this number between 2.30 pm and 4.09 pm are leads for intelligence agencies.

The flight was, meanwhile, cleared to take off at its scheduled time.

harimau: ``The Great Indian Bustard however seems to have migrated to the Western deserts and now inhabits Pakistan in large numbers. (This time, I deliberately mis-spelled the word!)``

Hello my little Pakistan hating moron. You must be leading a pathetic life to be so full of hate for Pakistanis. Once you gave me an excuse that you were only reacting to posts by pakistanis. several months later, I see that you were merely kidding yourself - you are a self-starting hate-mongerer. You will also see another post from me further elaborating on this matter for your reading pleasure on the first article. Moron.

Ref semipreciousme #: 268

[“Hey, Pakis. A barbecue party is being held in your neighborhood. So far, you guys have NOT been invited. Maybe in the next round, the US will bomb some Lashkar-e-Taiyoba madrassahs, with barbecued meat aplenty for vultures and bustards.”

….and I’m sure you’ll be first in the bustard line….]

By the way, Precious, a bustard -- the Great Indian Bustard -- is a carrion-eating bird. I didn`t deliberately mis-spell `b@stard`. The Great Indian Bustard however seems to have migrated to the Western deserts and now inhabits Pakistan in large numbers. (This time, I deliberately mis-spelled the word!)

narain #294

very troubling times. I applaud Roy for having the guts to stand against this insanity. The US cannot just go around bombing the rest of the world at will...it is unacceptable to many US citizens. Whats more, the institutions fail the people-we understand not only Albright`s profoundly disturbing responses to the deaths of innocent Iraqi children, but the fact that the administration acts with an arrogance that is galling. The Kyoto agreements, the conference on racism in South Africa, our demonization of our most impoverished Americans, our govt. continues to behave in inexcusable ahistoricism. It is at times very difficult to watch this.

regards, S

a very interesting read about the experiences of non-mulim women who chose to wear hijab for a day:

http://www.interfaithpeace.org/journal.html

sherdil:

semipreciousme #269

”The way I see it, most of the statements coming from the politicians are for media consumption. Sharon`s statement was not made on the spur of the moment. I think we can be sure it had been well thought out, discussed, and the responses evaluated. He sent a warning shot across the bows to Bush, essentially. The quiet apology was I think predetermined and expected - just a follow through. The message had already been sent. Where does that leaves us? More reading between the lines, I`m afraid!”

…did you happen to catch dateline london on bbc last weekend? the view of the participants was that sharon’s comments were not only totally unwarranted and seemed to blemish israel’s cause but according to them they were made by a very nervous and jittery sharon, one on the edge….

Re: Sherdil

Pakistani troops being employed in Saudi Arabia to track and erdicate the terrorists is more plausible than it is probable. Pakistani army has a tradition of helping Muslim/Arab countries in getting their domestic situation under control; Zia was very instrumental in helping the Jordanians during the Black September operations against the PLO in the early 1970s. Pakistani army was deployed, again under Zia, to protect Saudi Arabia, but more importantly the Saud family in the early 1980s.

Will Pakistani army take part in anti-terrorist operations?

The answer, or a lack one, lies in the fact that the Pakistani army has never acknowledged any such operations, if they have been undertaken in the past, and will not acknowledge such operations in the the future. Having said that, the reality would suggest something totally different and is: Pakistani special forces have a close working relationship with the British Special Air Service (SAS) more than they do with the American special forces. The Saudi special forces, designed and trained to protect the royal family, were trained by the SAS and employ many ex-SAS as security advisors.

If you can read between the lies and infer from my implications, you can easily draw a reasonable conclusion. :)

Ciao

Zafar #299
``This has led to their becoming more mature, to their ideas being modified (ie made more rational and reasonable) in response to Turkish public opinion, and it also allows one to hope that a religious party can one day find a place in a democratic (and secular) Turkey.``
Zafar, looking at the politics part of Hindutva, I donot have hope that the rallying cry of religion in public affairs/public power can be anything but a threat to public peace :(. If there is some other way to do it, good.

``Yes – but opposing it for idiotic reasons is not that helpful to Leftist influence in the long run, is it? It seems that all the Left is doing is undermining its own credibility due to its ideological habits. (pro-China, anti-America). ``

Very true. I believe EVERY political party in India has indulged itself quite enough in ideology. Actually ordinary citizens like us have been at fault for letting them instead of giving them hell about civic amenities, jobs and things closer to our own lives . We must demand that these parties now have two departments, the gobbledygook ideology dept and the real life dept. The gobbledygook ideology can be for internal organisational purposes. The real life department can devote itself to why water comes on only on alternate days, what happened to the money meant for repairing the road, what job will this young man do once he finishes college and why was this mining permit granted in a tribal area, requiring tribals to be evicted?
I`ll bet irrespective of party ideology, all parties will have the same answers..

``And if they’re trying to play the communal card (quite possible, look at CPI (M?) cadre involvement in “witch hunts” in Bengal) I find it totally despicable and also disappointing. Remember, the ONLY party which came through the decade of trouble in Punjab with relatively clean hands was the Communist Party. ``

Yes, I too remember this whenever I hear HS Surjeet making some statement I vehemently disagree with :). btw, I donot know about the other left parties, but soon after I posted my last post, I noticed a news item detailing a CPM writeup which spoke for the first time, of CPM being against Islamic fundamentalism(along with Hindu fundamentalism). So perhaps there is hope yet that they willnot besmirch their communal record..

ref: Sherdil #302

``I also get the feeling that the initiative is still with Musharraf on all fronts (internal army reassignments,arrests of maulanas, determined assertion of Pakistan`s viewpoint regarding the Northern Alliance, calling Vajpayee to continue talks) - I am very, very impressed. Any comments on this?``

Apart from Kashmir (where both sides feel that they hold the top card), I think your assessment is quite right. Pres. Musharraf has handled a very tough situation very ably. But two things would still point to caution. Firstly, on the eve of his departure, Mr. Sharif also looked quite in command. So when power goes, it goes suddenly in Pakistan.Secondly, as far as his fight with his internal enemies is concerned, only the first salvos have been fired. There is still probably a lot of fight left in Musharraf`s enemies. We have not heard the last of them. Hopefully it will not be a case of winning the battle, but losing the war.

I still think, though that he is the best person to lead Pakistan through these perilous times.

-narain

-narain

Re: #304

Shah,

Man, this could blow your cover.

I mean no mis-spellings, no bad grammer, no `accidental` captials, etc.

Did you slip up, or just got tired of the game ?

best regards for continuing bad posts,

Re Mahesh G, Rsaxena, YLH

Here`s one more from that hundu-jewish propaganda rag called the Wall Street Journal in today`s issue--Sept 12. Read the op-ed by that famous Indian/RAW agent Najam Sethi called ``pakistan`s folly`` where he clearly states that Rabbani`s government is still recognized as legitimate by the united nations. Unfortunately the Opinion Journal Site does not carry this article and can only be accessed by paid subscribers to the wsj site or readers of the newspaper.

MaheshG #295

Oops! wrong board.

Zafar

i was thinking along the lines that Taliban leadership seemed more interested in the dialectic of revolution across it`s borders, than it did in consolodation of the revolution in Afghanistan.

Theocracy or Democracy? There is no such thing as a Theocracy or than in theory. Iran is not a Theocracy, clerical rule is not the same. Recall we discussed briefly, religious Democracy and what kindof society that would have to be. Recall the values we discussed as a necessity for a religious Democracy. Recall that the purpose of such a religious Democracy was to allow morality to be a guiding principle, for which an acknowledgement of religious pluralism, the freedom of conscience and the acceptance of ``rights`` as laws were necessary requirements.

Does such a creature require a homgenous clergy? No, recall the basis for legitimacy is a majority of the free vote. As you have pointed out, the more resistance to the will of the majority, the greater the lack of legitimacy and of morality of the position that seeks to deny the will of the majority.



The flow of your argument does not seem to allow for the evolution of positions and institutions and historical record shows that not only is this possible but also probable. The opposite is the reckless route the Taliban leadership seems to have chosen.

We are living in intellectually, absolutely vibrant times in evolution of thought in Islamia; absolutely everything is open for exploration, examination, discourse, rejection and ferment. Lovely stuff; I posted an article on the Fatwa of Apostasy on the House of Saud - must read.

BTW - comment on the ``Dawn`` article I requested you to review.

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Feroze, sorry about the lack of clarity in my post. I was primarily interested in the possibility of Pakistani troops being used against identified terrorists in Saudi Arabia. There seems to be something happening there based on the reports of King Fahd leaving Saudi Arabia and Prince Abdullah in charge (see my last post).

As far as Pakistan`s state is concerned - in a word : Friday. It is quite obvious that most people are backing Musharraf. But the ongoing bombing is not sitting well in the streets... exactly as President Musharraf pointed out when he called for a short, sharp and targetted campaign. I also get the feeling that from the Indian side the actions have a more desperate impetus to them (re: comments by Vajpayee about Indian troops coming into Pakistan to attack Kashmiri militants). My personal feeling is that it is rhetoric (to gain US support) for now. I also get the feeling that the initiative is still with Musharraf on all fronts (internal army reassignments, arrests of maulanas, determined assertion of Pakistan`s viewpoint regarding the Northern Alliance, calling Vajpayee to continue talks) - I am very, very impressed. Any comments on this?

Re: Zafar Al-Talib (and hobbyty) #300

Zafar, from what I have seen personally, the Taliban by and large did not have many economic, political or other types of graduates in their ranks. They did not come up through the civil service ranks either, so their failure in governing a country is not unexpected. Iran on the other hand has a much deeper pool of scholars and experienced political individuals.