Sameer January 6, 2001
#139 Posted by Irfanm on May 15, 2008 12:52:39 am
Hi.... My name is Irfan Gakkar .... I want to know the history of Gakkars.... Presently we are in Gujarat and according to sorces we have sifted here somewere before 200 years ..
I want to know the entire history of Gakkars , if anyone have it please help me ...
I want to know the entire history of Gakkars , if anyone have it please help me ...
#135 Posted by shammi on February 18, 2001 9:14:30 pm
An excellent 3-piece story on the status of primary education in modern India
Here is an excellent 3-part series on the status of education in India:
http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2001/02/14/fp13s1-csm.shtml
Here is an excellent 3-part series on the status of education in India:
http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2001/02/14/fp13s1-csm.shtml
#134 Posted by Pankaj on February 1, 2001 1:53:00 am
Thanx Sameer, see what haste can cause. You clearly mentioned ``current prime minister`` and I stupidly mentioned a ``previous prime-minister``. That ``Gujranwala`` thing was a big bait and I fell for it :-).
Cheers
Cheers
#133 Posted by dullabhatti on January 29, 2001 4:31:05 pm
Mohathir Mohammad of Malaysia!!!
well..I cheated. I just read your answer on the other forum:)
That is very iteresting. Were his elders just living in Gujranwala because of business or jobs Or they were really native Punjabis?
well..I cheated. I just read your answer on the other forum:)
That is very iteresting. Were his elders just living in Gujranwala because of business or jobs Or they were really native Punjabis?
#132 Posted by SameerJB on January 29, 2001 4:31:05 pm
DullaBhatti, Hamsab, Pankaj:
The answer I was looking for is Mahathir Mohammed, current prime minister of malaysia, for almost 20 years. His grandfather( and possibly his grandmother too) migrated to Malaysia from Gujranwala. His mother was a native Malay. he only brings this up when campaigning among the 7 percent population of Malaysia of sub-continent origin, though mostly from South India. The immigration to Malaysia was mostly in rubber plantation.
Most of the immigrants to Fiji, Surinam, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago came from Bihar and UP-in the area of sugar plantation.
The answer I was looking for is Mahathir Mohammed, current prime minister of malaysia, for almost 20 years. His grandfather( and possibly his grandmother too) migrated to Malaysia from Gujranwala. His mother was a native Malay. he only brings this up when campaigning among the 7 percent population of Malaysia of sub-continent origin, though mostly from South India. The immigration to Malaysia was mostly in rubber plantation.
Most of the immigrants to Fiji, Surinam, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago came from Bihar and UP-in the area of sugar plantation.
#131 Posted by Humsab on January 29, 2001 6:57:49 am
SameerJB # 130
Dosanjh, Prime Minister of British Columbia
Dosanjh, Prime Minister of British Columbia
#130 Posted by dullabhatti on January 29, 2001 6:57:49 am
Mohinder Chaudhary? but he was not PM back then. or was he?
#129 Posted by SameerJB on January 28, 2001 10:54:44 pm
Sorry Pankaj, your answer is wrong. I. K. Gujral is not a current prime minister. He was born in Jhelum, probably of Khatri or Brahmin origin.
Let me give you a further hint. Few years back, there were three prime ministers with ``Punjabi`` background, two by birth and third through his grandfather. They were I. K. Gujral, Nawaz Sharif and...............
Let me give you a further hint. Few years back, there were three prime ministers with ``Punjabi`` background, two by birth and third through his grandfather. They were I. K. Gujral, Nawaz Sharif and...............
#128 Posted by Pankaj on January 28, 2001 6:32:47 pm
Sameer #128
``Name a current prime minister of a country whose grandparents (or grandfather?) were Jats from Gujranwala``
Who else! Mr I.K. Gujral, former PM of India.
Cheers
``Name a current prime minister of a country whose grandparents (or grandfather?) were Jats from Gujranwala``
Who else! Mr I.K. Gujral, former PM of India.
Cheers
#127 Posted by SameerJB on January 28, 2001 3:34:02 pm
Dulla Bhatti, the Jat: Thanks for posting about Khizr Hayat Tiwana. He was more lucky than smart, to be the chief minister of Punjab. It was due to either retirement of Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan (no relation with Tiwana, Shaukat was from Wah, district Campellpur whereas Khizr was from Shahpur or Sargodha) or untimely death of Shaukat Hayat Khan (I need to look into some book to find out which was the case). I have even heard from some old folks suggesting that had Shaukat survived, there would not have been partition.
Anyway, on a lighter note about Jat, here is a quiz for you. Name a current prime minister of a country whose grandparents (or grandfather?) were Jats from Gujranwala. They migrated during British Raj.
Anyway, on a lighter note about Jat, here is a quiz for you. Name a current prime minister of a country whose grandparents (or grandfather?) were Jats from Gujranwala. They migrated during British Raj.
#126 Posted by Zahra on January 24, 2001 2:18:01 pm
Dulla Bhatti:
It`s a sad story! Late Khizr Hayat`s son(Samar) from his last wife(i guess)went to school with my brother. It was a very sad episode. Sometimes, one wonders what`s the value of human life; regardless of the ancestry, lineage and monetary status. These damn feuds are inhuman and barbaric in this day and age. I say, ``this day and age`` because you`ll like to think that with more awareness there will be less hostility and pagal pun. I guess that is an idealistic view!
Take Care
It`s a sad story! Late Khizr Hayat`s son(Samar) from his last wife(i guess)went to school with my brother. It was a very sad episode. Sometimes, one wonders what`s the value of human life; regardless of the ancestry, lineage and monetary status. These damn feuds are inhuman and barbaric in this day and age. I say, ``this day and age`` because you`ll like to think that with more awareness there will be less hostility and pagal pun. I guess that is an idealistic view!
Take Care
#125 Posted by dullabhatti on January 23, 2001 7:28:14 pm
For Sameer and others: While surfing the web I found this very informative article about Hizr Tiwana written by some journalist some time last year. I don`t have the original reference of the writer, date or the publisher but it sounds intersting.
LOCATED in the Shahpur tehsil of Sargodha district, Kalra is the birthplace of the man whose family sustained British rule in India for over a century. The Kalra
Estate is equidistant from Khushab in the north and Sargodha to the east-west, or 25 kilometres on either side. To be more precise, it is situated some six kilometres
from Jhawarian. Khizr Hayat was the last of the Tiwana scions who served the Raj with unflinching loyalty. Had Khizr Hayat Khan supported the Quaid, the map of
the subcontinent - and more so of the Punjab - would have been quite different. The remnants of the Raj can be seen - even engraved on the chieftains` graves -
scattered everywhere. The names and insignias of the regiments which Khizr`s father served are inscribed on the high gate to the family graveyard. The tombstone on
Umar Hayat grave has the traditional turban in stone, now half-broken and heralds with pride the Raj. The tombstone speaks particularly of his operations in Tibet,
the Kangra Valley, etc. His son`s grave bears neither his name nor his achievements.
Kalra Estate, spread over 600 squares (15,000 acres) of land comprised 11 villages and was owned by the Tiwanas. According to an inscription on Sahib Khan`s
grave, he acquired Mehrga village in 1845 and founded the Kalra Estate in 1860. Initially, it was a meadow occupied by the Lak tribesmen, another feudal
community of the area. After 1857, it was leased out to the Tiwanas and, later, sold to them under the abadkari scheme.
The ghost of Khizr Hayat haunts the place and the atmosphere and there seems to be some sort of panic in the air. The tenants and non-Tiwana residents of Kalra
appear some how scared of the unknown. Their panic-stricken eyes follow strangers everywhere. Even half a century after the end of the Tiwana autocracy, the air
at Kalra is heavy with oppression.
Like the estate and the establishment, the Tiwana graveyard looks haunted. According to the estate manager, Mr Lal Khan, a tombstone had been put up twice on
Khizr Hayat`s grave but it disappeared on both occasions. And now he lies in a grave without an epitaph. As regards the condition of the grave, it had better be left
unsaid. Two of his wives lie buried next. With broken marble tombstones scattered over them, Khizr`s mother also lies buried in the family graveyard but the tomb
has been sealed off. There is a mosque along the graveyard but it seems to have been unattended for months, if not years. The ruined well in the mosque is another
sad comment on the past grandeur of the estate.
According to estate sources, Khizr used to patronise a deeni madressah which produced a hundred huffaz every year. Estate sources credited Khizr with the running
of an orphanage and a hospital but there is no sign of any such place at present. According to Sir Malcolm Darling, Khizr was hated in his home district because he
was ``miserly``.
In 1935, Khizr had a row with his father over the mismanagement of family finances. Umar Hayat`s personal assistant, Malik Ghulam Muhammad, misappropriated
estate revenues. Khizr wanted to file a civil suit against him but Umar did not approve. It obliged Khizr, his mother and elder son Nazar Hayat to leave Kalra. Before
the row could be patched up, they stayed with one of Khizr`s friends, Mohan Singh, for one month in Rawalpindi. Mohan Singh gave them Rs50,000 in cash to help
them tide over their financial difficulties. The father and son differed diametrically in character as observed by Khizr`s biographer, Ian Talbot. ``Where Umar was
generous and self-indulgent, Khizr was parsimonious and modest.``
According to Talbot, ``Khizr`s outward display masked an insecurity bred of paternal dominance. The latter may have prompted his numerous marriages,`` according
to close family sources, two of Khizr`s wives were more prominent and held greater sway at Kalra.
According to Kalra sources, Nazar also developed differences with his father and settled permanently in the US. But Nazar loved him intensely and frequently visited
Britain and the US to see him.
According to Talbot, Khizr had married Rehana in 1963. It was his fourth and her fifth marriage. She came from a middle class family. In 1970, she gave birth to
twin sons, Mehr Hayat and Samar Hayat. The former was killed as a teenager in a car crash, while the second, Samar, was murdered. Rehana was also reportedly
murdered by family retainers in 1976, although no case was lodged. These facts were revealed to Ian Talbot by Nazar Hayat in an interview.
The manager told me that Queen Elizabeth, the viceroy and Sir Chhotu Ram visited Kalra once and were feted in the room where we were seated. This building was
once Khizr`s courtroom where he decided minor cases. He used to receive VIPs in an adjacent room which is now being used as a granary with bins lying all along
the walls. Since fear still haunts Kalra, most of Khizr`s life is shrouded in mystery.
Little is known about Khizr`s social and personal life. He had palatial residences in almost all big cities but he loved to stay at Kalra - the place where Khizr, his
father Umar and his grandfather, Sahib Khan, lived and which is known as Tiwana Palace. Sprawling over a vast area and built by Khizr`s father Umar Hayat in
1887, it is a cluster of several big and small buildings. The entrance has a giant wooden gate. On the first floor adjoining the gate, there is a post where Sikh guards
were based.
The guards used to blow a bugle whenever Khizr moved out of the palace for hunting. The boundary has gunholes to beat back any possible attack. Inside the main
gate, there is a lock-up and a courtroom. One has to pass through three huge gates to enter the residential quarters of the palace. Khizr was brought up and
groomed here by a loving mother. The palace had been equipped with all facilities to meet any emergency. It had a stable for horses, brown cows, greyhounds,
godowns, etc. Khizr`s bedroom having a huge wooden door and two windows lies in the north-eastern corner of the residential quarters. The door has been
profusely decorated with wood carvings and its original design has survived the fury of wind and rain. The portion along the innermost gate of the palace contains a
big room where Khizr used to dine with his intimate managers, family members or some special guests. Adjoining the gate is the room of an ``ayah`` who reportedly
nursed one of Khizr`s sons. This part of the palace is undergoing repairs to restore its original design and ceiling embellishments. A dismantled wall mirror used for
dressing purposes is a nostalgic reminder of the past. The room once occupied by the ``ayah`` is also being renovated. The wooden pillars at its entrance have been
restored. The residence of Khizr`s mother was located outside the residential quarters.
There is an akhara to the north of the residential block.
Sources close to the palace disclosed that Khizr used to visit his mother when out of sorts because she was his mentor on sensitive family affairs. According to the
manager, he saw Khizr very sad only twice - first when he resigned as the prime minister of united Punjab in March, 1947 and earlier, when his wife, Sultan Bibi, fell
seriously ill and his estranged son, Nazar, came to Lahore to see her. Both the father and the son cried their hearts out at the Lahore railway station. These are but
only a few stray memories. The real events of Khizr`s life are still shrouded in mystery.
The Kalra Estate and more so the palace, which is now commonly called bhoot mahal (ghost palace) is a desolate place. After passing through the main gate, one
comes across heaps of rubble. Life seems stale and a deadly silence reigns everywhere. Most of the residences are now infested by wasps.
Kalra, where once even the eagles dared not fly, is now a ghost town. Scare defines life. The Sharif family, reportedly intended to buy the estate. Mian Sharif and
Shahbaz were reported to have visited the place for the purpose. But fate decided otherwise.
The estate presented a horrifying spectacle after the partition. The dream of communal harmony nursed by Khizr and Allah Bakhsh were shattered in the aftermath of
partition.
The Tiwanas had to receive the shock of century as strange event took place at Kalra at the end of September, 1947. It involved Jiwan Khan, head of its `langar`.
According to Talbot, ``In the absence of any male members of the family, he staged what amounted to a mini coup d`etat. He took over the running of the estate and
forbade the retainers to allow the Tiwana women folk to leave. On the second day a message for assistance was smuggled out through one of the palace maids who
feigned pregnancy and required her husband to accompany her on a call of nature to the fields. The man walked four miles to Jhawarian from where he went by
tonga to Chak Muzaffarabad. Once Ahmad Yar Tiwana was told of what had happened, he hurried off to Jhawarian police station where constables were sent to
release the ladies. No case was registered against Jiwan Khan as it would involve a loss of face. When Khizr later heard of the episode he generously forgave the
retainer who escaped lightly with a fine.`` Talbot gathered this information during an interview with Nazar Hayat.
Khizr`s public career ended in abject failure. He could not even protect his loyal Hindu and Sikh workers at Kalra. Instead, he went into a self-imposed exile when
Pakistan achieved freedom. He died not in his native home but in distant California and was laid to rest at Kalra.
Sameer: Last weekend I was reading the discussion by Jaspal, you and others about Jatts on the other website. and man It was lot of info from the real world experience about different jat and rajput clans of Punjab.
Now that I look back how politics and religion and society worked in villages around the neighbourhood of my village, I feel these issue do work at the base of all political moves and social behaviour of people. Again it is not a matter of being tribals but it is necessary to uderstand these jatt, non-jatt,arain,kashmiri,khatri, rajput dynamics in order to fully comprehend the society and how it works and to decide how to improve it.
It is easy to say and politically correct to say,not to mention thought as enlightened view by some intellectuals, that we are all the same and any mention of these tribes and discussion is racial motivated. but truth is these things exist and determine the destiny of people atleast in political arena.
DullaBhatti - A Jat proud of a Rajput,Dullah Bhatti.
LOCATED in the Shahpur tehsil of Sargodha district, Kalra is the birthplace of the man whose family sustained British rule in India for over a century. The Kalra
Estate is equidistant from Khushab in the north and Sargodha to the east-west, or 25 kilometres on either side. To be more precise, it is situated some six kilometres
from Jhawarian. Khizr Hayat was the last of the Tiwana scions who served the Raj with unflinching loyalty. Had Khizr Hayat Khan supported the Quaid, the map of
the subcontinent - and more so of the Punjab - would have been quite different. The remnants of the Raj can be seen - even engraved on the chieftains` graves -
scattered everywhere. The names and insignias of the regiments which Khizr`s father served are inscribed on the high gate to the family graveyard. The tombstone on
Umar Hayat grave has the traditional turban in stone, now half-broken and heralds with pride the Raj. The tombstone speaks particularly of his operations in Tibet,
the Kangra Valley, etc. His son`s grave bears neither his name nor his achievements.
Kalra Estate, spread over 600 squares (15,000 acres) of land comprised 11 villages and was owned by the Tiwanas. According to an inscription on Sahib Khan`s
grave, he acquired Mehrga village in 1845 and founded the Kalra Estate in 1860. Initially, it was a meadow occupied by the Lak tribesmen, another feudal
community of the area. After 1857, it was leased out to the Tiwanas and, later, sold to them under the abadkari scheme.
The ghost of Khizr Hayat haunts the place and the atmosphere and there seems to be some sort of panic in the air. The tenants and non-Tiwana residents of Kalra
appear some how scared of the unknown. Their panic-stricken eyes follow strangers everywhere. Even half a century after the end of the Tiwana autocracy, the air
at Kalra is heavy with oppression.
Like the estate and the establishment, the Tiwana graveyard looks haunted. According to the estate manager, Mr Lal Khan, a tombstone had been put up twice on
Khizr Hayat`s grave but it disappeared on both occasions. And now he lies in a grave without an epitaph. As regards the condition of the grave, it had better be left
unsaid. Two of his wives lie buried next. With broken marble tombstones scattered over them, Khizr`s mother also lies buried in the family graveyard but the tomb
has been sealed off. There is a mosque along the graveyard but it seems to have been unattended for months, if not years. The ruined well in the mosque is another
sad comment on the past grandeur of the estate.
According to estate sources, Khizr used to patronise a deeni madressah which produced a hundred huffaz every year. Estate sources credited Khizr with the running
of an orphanage and a hospital but there is no sign of any such place at present. According to Sir Malcolm Darling, Khizr was hated in his home district because he
was ``miserly``.
In 1935, Khizr had a row with his father over the mismanagement of family finances. Umar Hayat`s personal assistant, Malik Ghulam Muhammad, misappropriated
estate revenues. Khizr wanted to file a civil suit against him but Umar did not approve. It obliged Khizr, his mother and elder son Nazar Hayat to leave Kalra. Before
the row could be patched up, they stayed with one of Khizr`s friends, Mohan Singh, for one month in Rawalpindi. Mohan Singh gave them Rs50,000 in cash to help
them tide over their financial difficulties. The father and son differed diametrically in character as observed by Khizr`s biographer, Ian Talbot. ``Where Umar was
generous and self-indulgent, Khizr was parsimonious and modest.``
According to Talbot, ``Khizr`s outward display masked an insecurity bred of paternal dominance. The latter may have prompted his numerous marriages,`` according
to close family sources, two of Khizr`s wives were more prominent and held greater sway at Kalra.
According to Kalra sources, Nazar also developed differences with his father and settled permanently in the US. But Nazar loved him intensely and frequently visited
Britain and the US to see him.
According to Talbot, Khizr had married Rehana in 1963. It was his fourth and her fifth marriage. She came from a middle class family. In 1970, she gave birth to
twin sons, Mehr Hayat and Samar Hayat. The former was killed as a teenager in a car crash, while the second, Samar, was murdered. Rehana was also reportedly
murdered by family retainers in 1976, although no case was lodged. These facts were revealed to Ian Talbot by Nazar Hayat in an interview.
The manager told me that Queen Elizabeth, the viceroy and Sir Chhotu Ram visited Kalra once and were feted in the room where we were seated. This building was
once Khizr`s courtroom where he decided minor cases. He used to receive VIPs in an adjacent room which is now being used as a granary with bins lying all along
the walls. Since fear still haunts Kalra, most of Khizr`s life is shrouded in mystery.
Little is known about Khizr`s social and personal life. He had palatial residences in almost all big cities but he loved to stay at Kalra - the place where Khizr, his
father Umar and his grandfather, Sahib Khan, lived and which is known as Tiwana Palace. Sprawling over a vast area and built by Khizr`s father Umar Hayat in
1887, it is a cluster of several big and small buildings. The entrance has a giant wooden gate. On the first floor adjoining the gate, there is a post where Sikh guards
were based.
The guards used to blow a bugle whenever Khizr moved out of the palace for hunting. The boundary has gunholes to beat back any possible attack. Inside the main
gate, there is a lock-up and a courtroom. One has to pass through three huge gates to enter the residential quarters of the palace. Khizr was brought up and
groomed here by a loving mother. The palace had been equipped with all facilities to meet any emergency. It had a stable for horses, brown cows, greyhounds,
godowns, etc. Khizr`s bedroom having a huge wooden door and two windows lies in the north-eastern corner of the residential quarters. The door has been
profusely decorated with wood carvings and its original design has survived the fury of wind and rain. The portion along the innermost gate of the palace contains a
big room where Khizr used to dine with his intimate managers, family members or some special guests. Adjoining the gate is the room of an ``ayah`` who reportedly
nursed one of Khizr`s sons. This part of the palace is undergoing repairs to restore its original design and ceiling embellishments. A dismantled wall mirror used for
dressing purposes is a nostalgic reminder of the past. The room once occupied by the ``ayah`` is also being renovated. The wooden pillars at its entrance have been
restored. The residence of Khizr`s mother was located outside the residential quarters.
There is an akhara to the north of the residential block.
Sources close to the palace disclosed that Khizr used to visit his mother when out of sorts because she was his mentor on sensitive family affairs. According to the
manager, he saw Khizr very sad only twice - first when he resigned as the prime minister of united Punjab in March, 1947 and earlier, when his wife, Sultan Bibi, fell
seriously ill and his estranged son, Nazar, came to Lahore to see her. Both the father and the son cried their hearts out at the Lahore railway station. These are but
only a few stray memories. The real events of Khizr`s life are still shrouded in mystery.
The Kalra Estate and more so the palace, which is now commonly called bhoot mahal (ghost palace) is a desolate place. After passing through the main gate, one
comes across heaps of rubble. Life seems stale and a deadly silence reigns everywhere. Most of the residences are now infested by wasps.
Kalra, where once even the eagles dared not fly, is now a ghost town. Scare defines life. The Sharif family, reportedly intended to buy the estate. Mian Sharif and
Shahbaz were reported to have visited the place for the purpose. But fate decided otherwise.
The estate presented a horrifying spectacle after the partition. The dream of communal harmony nursed by Khizr and Allah Bakhsh were shattered in the aftermath of
partition.
The Tiwanas had to receive the shock of century as strange event took place at Kalra at the end of September, 1947. It involved Jiwan Khan, head of its `langar`.
According to Talbot, ``In the absence of any male members of the family, he staged what amounted to a mini coup d`etat. He took over the running of the estate and
forbade the retainers to allow the Tiwana women folk to leave. On the second day a message for assistance was smuggled out through one of the palace maids who
feigned pregnancy and required her husband to accompany her on a call of nature to the fields. The man walked four miles to Jhawarian from where he went by
tonga to Chak Muzaffarabad. Once Ahmad Yar Tiwana was told of what had happened, he hurried off to Jhawarian police station where constables were sent to
release the ladies. No case was registered against Jiwan Khan as it would involve a loss of face. When Khizr later heard of the episode he generously forgave the
retainer who escaped lightly with a fine.`` Talbot gathered this information during an interview with Nazar Hayat.
Khizr`s public career ended in abject failure. He could not even protect his loyal Hindu and Sikh workers at Kalra. Instead, he went into a self-imposed exile when
Pakistan achieved freedom. He died not in his native home but in distant California and was laid to rest at Kalra.
Sameer: Last weekend I was reading the discussion by Jaspal, you and others about Jatts on the other website. and man It was lot of info from the real world experience about different jat and rajput clans of Punjab.
Now that I look back how politics and religion and society worked in villages around the neighbourhood of my village, I feel these issue do work at the base of all political moves and social behaviour of people. Again it is not a matter of being tribals but it is necessary to uderstand these jatt, non-jatt,arain,kashmiri,khatri, rajput dynamics in order to fully comprehend the society and how it works and to decide how to improve it.
It is easy to say and politically correct to say,not to mention thought as enlightened view by some intellectuals, that we are all the same and any mention of these tribes and discussion is racial motivated. but truth is these things exist and determine the destiny of people atleast in political arena.
DullaBhatti - A Jat proud of a Rajput,Dullah Bhatti.
#123 Posted by Pankaj on January 23, 2001 12:11:05 pm
Sameer
The story of Ibrahim Gardi forms a lesson in the 8th or 9th standard textbook on the great personalities. He set an example before the others. There was also a serial called Marathas on Doordarshan some time back in which the character of Ibrahim Gardi was shown in full detail. His refusal to betray his countrymen against extreme torture and his supreme sacrifice have become an example to emulate. May he live long in our memories!
Sincerely
The story of Ibrahim Gardi forms a lesson in the 8th or 9th standard textbook on the great personalities. He set an example before the others. There was also a serial called Marathas on Doordarshan some time back in which the character of Ibrahim Gardi was shown in full detail. His refusal to betray his countrymen against extreme torture and his supreme sacrifice have become an example to emulate. May he live long in our memories!
Sincerely
#122 Posted by Zahra on January 23, 2001 2:21:42 am
Dost-Mittur Jee:
A Correction: I wrote in Josh than in Hosh, therefore ended up substituting Z with S. It is Faz`oon and not Fasoo`n!
In the 1st line, the poet is being a little haughty and is showing some Phoon Phaan[fake ego :-)]. He claims with a lot of confidence and pride that he can excercise his writing skills anytime to portray the picture he saw.
[full of himself -- PhuR Marnaa`]
But in the IInd one, he is humbled by the beauty and realizes his incomeptency [Pride hath a fall!]. In other words, he admits the nazzaa`ra is [far better - Fazoon Tur] than his imagination. Keep in mind that he would have used his imagination to bring his claim to fruition.
PS: I said what I said, because I could not even express a tiny bit of what I read in Tusveer`ae` Kashmir. There is far more depth and each time one reads the verses there is an urge to say more and more and more! The best way of understanding and reading poetry is to read it with a conscious imagination, memorize it[you must], go back to it and then apply it where you can :-)
Take Care,
Dulla Bhatti:
Nice Story! I have heard the same view that you`ve narrated, as well as the opposite. I think it depends on how strong your affiliations are! For example, obviously people from one city will have a stronger bonding than the ones who have the same religion but are dwelling all over the world. It`s the phrase: birds of same feather ``love to`` flock together. I have not made it specific to Jats, but I know a lot of people who are very particular about what you`ve mentioned, including some Jats :-) I ain`t one, though I have some relatives who are Jaa`ts.
Sameer:
I have asked an Indian friend [Punjabi] to enlighten the readers of his views on the topic under discussion. His paternal and maternal ancestry is originally from Gujranwala & Lahore. The guy is extremely knowledgeable on all these sub-casts/tribes and their ins and outs. I hope he participates, whenever he gets a chance to look into Chowk.
Later,
A Correction: I wrote in Josh than in Hosh, therefore ended up substituting Z with S. It is Faz`oon and not Fasoo`n!
In the 1st line, the poet is being a little haughty and is showing some Phoon Phaan[fake ego :-)]. He claims with a lot of confidence and pride that he can excercise his writing skills anytime to portray the picture he saw.
[full of himself -- PhuR Marnaa`]
But in the IInd one, he is humbled by the beauty and realizes his incomeptency [Pride hath a fall!]. In other words, he admits the nazzaa`ra is [far better - Fazoon Tur] than his imagination. Keep in mind that he would have used his imagination to bring his claim to fruition.
PS: I said what I said, because I could not even express a tiny bit of what I read in Tusveer`ae` Kashmir. There is far more depth and each time one reads the verses there is an urge to say more and more and more! The best way of understanding and reading poetry is to read it with a conscious imagination, memorize it[you must], go back to it and then apply it where you can :-)
Take Care,
Dulla Bhatti:
Nice Story! I have heard the same view that you`ve narrated, as well as the opposite. I think it depends on how strong your affiliations are! For example, obviously people from one city will have a stronger bonding than the ones who have the same religion but are dwelling all over the world. It`s the phrase: birds of same feather ``love to`` flock together. I have not made it specific to Jats, but I know a lot of people who are very particular about what you`ve mentioned, including some Jats :-) I ain`t one, though I have some relatives who are Jaa`ts.
Sameer:
I have asked an Indian friend [Punjabi] to enlighten the readers of his views on the topic under discussion. His paternal and maternal ancestry is originally from Gujranwala & Lahore. The guy is extremely knowledgeable on all these sub-casts/tribes and their ins and outs. I hope he participates, whenever he gets a chance to look into Chowk.
Later,
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