Marital Rape

shankar #369

``Good point. Why single out Pakistani men as villans? These things happen in every country. Male chauvinism & testesterone is not unique of Pakistan.``

When the problem is addressed, say, in the US, they naturally `single out` US males (chauvinists and otherwise:)) as sujects for consideration-- not Pakistani males. I suspect that in trying to understand the roots of the problem, they would consider economic, psychological (incl. biological) and sociological fators (incl. religious background.) In the US, this would mean assessing the possible relationship between Christian beliefs and these actions... Hinduism and Islam would be of little relevance there, I suspect). The reverence shown to religon is not reason enough to skirt the issue.

rgds,

PM

HLAHIL

#368

Good point. Why single out Pakistani men as villans? These things happen in every country. Male chauvinism & testesterone is not unique of Pakistan.

Zahra #363 I am glad you appreciated my earlier post. While attention is generally directed towards greed and violence and fanaticism in Pakistan, the fact is that there are many more people who are quietly contributing one way or another to that country. And that is why I have faith that despite the worst the thugs (politicians, landlords, bureaucrats, Islamic fundamentalists, and plain, vanilla crooks) can do, Pakistanis will one day overcome their troubles. I have, as you mentioned, had the chance to travel around a bit (in connection with my job and for pleasure). On PIA flights, I have almost always run into some acquaintence - once, the gentleman sitting next to me turned out to be an old roommate.

Re Ali1

The last word used in your posting says a lot about you.I am sure you use f word when you want to sound intelligent.At the expense of repeating myself, let me say this again, Pakistan is not a perfect country but what is being asked to believe is that marital rape is common in Pakistan, is simply not true.Pakistan has more good people than bad people.It is going to get better, I am hopeful of that.

You might have problem understanding what i am saying because i am not speaking your language which i know how to.

Thank god you are not in Pakistan. Less trash to

to get rid off.

Pakistan Zindabad

Siagalph 235 #354

There were many good points of Shah`s Iran. Foremost among them was land reform.

But in later times, the middle class movement in many forms like Tudeh Party, Party of Mehdi Bazargan, Khalq, Mujahideen and Fidayeen both and Mullah party etc brought out the revolution.

Before the revolution women were more liberated in the sense that they could wear whatever they can. But the social disparity was extreme. And rule of Savak was notorious.

The revolution brought by many was hijacked by Khomeini. And he imposed his version of things. There are some good points and bad points. My wife was rebuffed because she had a few hairs outside head scarf. But at the same time there was much safety in mobility.

Moreover the regime being not very popular and not supported by any foreign power had to do something concrete to keep the people in check. Since Tehran constitutes 20% of Iran population everybody in power keeps Tehrani people happy, but they have done a remarkable job for village people also (which is their main support base).

Bina #357

Is your question real regarding which Pakistan he is talking about.

It was in all newspapers of Pakistan.

When the poor women were paraded naked in Chowk in retaliation by the powerful of area. And I am pretty sure after Mukh Mukha they would be scot free.

Some incidences are stuck to the minds of Pakistanis, like Bushra Zaidi case and Bahawalpur case.

A very penetrating article that exposes myths based on ignorance and arrogance of a self-centered husband. The attitude of a husband indulging in the Martial Rape is that wife is a property to be used for his sexual pleasures as he pleases, wife doesn`t deserve respect and she has no legal recourse even if she chooses to seek a legal remedy.

In a strage way a husband resorting to the Martial Rape is exposing his emotional inadequacies for love making and short comings such as such as sexual, emotional, financial, cultural, etc. to please his wife/partner.

Those who defende such behavior fail to understand the differance between love making and animal lust.

TAhmed(Post 327):

The following was a very nice post!

``They become better educated by seeing the world and meeting people from other parts of the world and seeing that they are human beings like us. And
thus they become more open-minded. They then contribute in various ways - foreign exchange remittances; foreign idea remittances (less obvious, but more powerful); donations to NGO schools and health clinics; bringing in
foreign direct investments; promoting peace in the sub-continent. The ``brain drain`` that people feared about becomes a ``brain gain``. And there is fertile ground in Pakistan for all this, since expatriate Pakistanis have been appreciated and their views listened to (although not necessarily acted on)by every government in Pakistan.``

As a teenager, I used to have the same question, when I`d see all my cousins taking an uraa`n for their higher studies and many uncles settled abroad for decades. Before I left for mine, I realized that there`s a stage when one feels like taking an uraa`n and coming out of ones comfort zone. In young women`s case, it becomes a little harder for the parents to accept the concept the way they would do for their sons. I guess times are changing now, but haven`t that much.

On a different note, you sound to be a well traveled person. I would love to exchange notes on that aspect. Personally, I`ve hated traveling while I was growing up -- detested airports, train stations and bus stations. [I guess due to the parting scenes -- tears and the gloomy atmosphere] When I decided to take my uraa`n, I had to let go of that dislike -- an interesting transition. In fact, it became a craze! Mainly, due to the people!!It`s a great learning experience and the younger one is the better it is. Most of my senior and married colleagues hated/hate it. On each of my travels, I used to pray very wholeheartedly, ``Allah Taa`la, please
have someone from a different country /culture /race seated next to me.`` Very
surprisingly, I was always heard. Being an impatient and slightly impulsive youth, I developed[kind of] good listening skills while coversing with other travelers. Now, I have become a little careful for what I ask when I pray :-) In fact, very careful! Besides that, I am also not overzealous about taking any adventurous trips - clear cut routes are preferable. I guess, that is a major change, I`ve encountered with the passing of 20s and just
stepping into 30s.

Going back to your succinct note: I have also had few relatives who`ve gone back to assist the government. One of them is in his late 60s/early 70s, adamant to spend time in Pakistan on various economic development projects for at least 6 - 7 months every year. His family is settled in DC for decades and would not consider taking that plunge as often as he would - but he still goes ahead with his passion. This is just one example. There are quite a few who contribute far more effectively than one can imagine - even being away from home.

Later,

Farangi Kush:

Ever occur to you that the valid and sometimes very penetrative observations you make (as on the rich but alas neglected eastern literature) are completely undermined by your fatuous rallying call?

You say: ``My stance on many issues,as on this one,is that MOST of our decent well meaning activists make it an issue ONLY once it becomes a fad elsewhere...``

How about relacing `it becomes a fad` with `awareness of it is raised`? Or are you suggesting that there is nothing to learn from the West at all? That wife-battering and -subjugation in the Eastern cultures was ably addressed and remedied in times gone by? Or perhaps you would have us believe that such occurences of domestic violence in our culture were never really widespread enough to merit `intervention`-- that these vices are as all others, products of Western influence.

HLAHIL:#350

Please understand that we are talking about VIOLENCE here.There is no way one could covertly or overtly support it.

If the pain & cry is coming from the victims themselves it must be heard,listened to,addressed and resolved.We as muslims just cannot muffle the sobs and admonish the injured for bawling in public.

My stance on many issues,as on this one,is that MOST of our decent well meaning activists make it an issue ONLY once it becomes a fad elsewhere.This TRANSPLANTED intellecualism is what I abhor & resent.May be I should be less harsh in my judgement because many of such kind are the product of an education system which has robbed them of their ability to think and only churns out robots looking for jobs,assignments & volunteerism ONLY in a certain cultural setting.

Allama Rashid-ul-Khairi and A.R.Khathoon AND Shaistha Ikramullah are names which could be a beacon to anyone living in the dark ages of present day west or east(yes we do live in different TIME zones within the same geographic location).Now,that because of a very sinister agenda most of such kind have been led to loathe their own rich literature & pioneerism,they are not knowledgeable enough to admit their own ignorance.

The good news for you is that,for the very reason Pakistanis(& Indians) only acknowledge & follow that which has been established & accepted by the west,the young muslim & muslimas are the biggest driving force in the west.The number of conversions taking place & mostly through self-enquiry is al-hamdullilah;and mostly among the learned,celebity,priestly and the well-off class--the ones emulated.The Ba Ba Blacksheep are aghast at seeing the rug being pulled out from under their feet.The farangi-fossils in their forties & fifties are stupefied.

``Boo e Aadam zaad aayee sey kahaan sey nagahaan?

Daiv is jungle kay sunnnatay mein hain``.

__________________________________________________A shair for your moniker:

``Voh zehr bhurra hai kay sulagthee hai suraahi

Hurr kaasa e maiy,zehr e HLAHIL sey sivaa hai``.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam

RE # 350 LAHIL

Powerful piece of writing. You come across as a very intelligent and enligntened person.

[``FARAGIKUSH! where have you been, man``]

Moulana Farangi Kush is preparing to lead his 3 million followers to Islamabad from his ancestral village of Dhoke Khotianwala in Chakwal.

In Islamabad, he will stick the jhanda of Islam in Gen. Mushy`s fat bottom, burn the video and music shops and smash all the television sets. He will take those ``burger eating/pepsi drinking`` girls away from their zandeeq and murtid parents and distribute them among his followers!

Take care man, and please keep on writing. People like you are the future of Pakistan, which I am afraid is no different from you.....fcuked.

re. fairdinkum #352

Thought you might like that, mate!

``But PM, how did you know that I ......... ? :)``

you what?? O bhai, kya shaadi shuda loago ko hum `singull` paagalo jesay aise aaltoo faaltoo falsafiya pe dimagh laRane ke liye time hoga, kya?!? tahmed bhai se zara poochyey to sahiN... kya unn ko khula ka khatra to nahiN hai?

:)

RSaxena:

``What is dangerous is when people seek to impose their moral judgements on other`s.``

Agreed. But how can anything SAID on this cyber medium (or, for that matter, said anywhere) be construed as an imposition on others` values?

HLAHIL:

And which Pakistan were you sitting in where women in Bahawalpur were stripped and made to walk naked down the street? Women may not be made to lap-dance in this country (then why are there still mujras?) but we are not treated with the respect we deserve.

Bina

HLAHIL:

And which Pakistan were you sitting in where women in Bahawalpur were stripped and made to walk naked down the street? Women may not be made to lap-dance in this country (then why are there still mujras?) but we are not treated with the respect we deserve.

Bina

PM #349

Excellent, excellent piece of writing! Loved it! Especially the poem, and those penetrating set of questions.... well, to be honest, I loved the whole thing!

But PM, how did you know that I ......... ? :)