Last Kiss

this is realy nice!

but has made u so ...well...acerbic?

i so wish it were written for me.

temporal:#49

The name is FARANGI_KUSH.Please notice the under-score as well;)Nothing is trivial here:)

Munni Bai Hijab made lillupitans out of many a literary giants including Daagh Dehlavi.It is understandable because the bait was the `mauzoo-e-sukhan` of sha-e-ri itself.

The ``Aagahee`` was very apt(brilliant!) but the other shai`r somehow could not elicit the context for me-----maybe it was an `insider`.

There seems to be a stampede,these days, of those trying to tread the avenues which the `malaikaas` find slippery.Only on CHOWK? you say.

__________________________________________________

``Hum sey khul jaao bu-vaqt e mai purustee aik din

Vurnaa hum chharain gey rukh kur uzr-e mustee aik din``

Yes Yes I do!at the right clime & time and in the right company & class.

I once went bankrupt keeping up my tribute-payments to virtue.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

temporal:#49

The name is FARANGI_KUSH.Please notice the under-score as well;)Nothing is trivial here:)

Munni Bai Hijab made lillupitans out of many a literary giants including Daagh Dehlavi.It is understandable because the bait was the `mauzoo-e-sukhan` of sha-e-ri itself.

The ``Aagahee`` was very apt(brilliant!) but the other shai`r somehow could not elicit the context for me-----maybe it was an `insider`.

There seems to be a stampede,these days, of those trying to tread the avenues which the `malaikaas` find slippery.Only on CHOWK? you say.

__________________________________________________

``Hum sey khul jaao bu-vaqt e mai purustee aik din

Vurnaa hum chharain gey rukh kur uzr-e mustee aik din``

Yes Yes I do!at the right clime & time and in the right company & class.

I once went bankrupt keeping up my tribute-payments to virtue.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

SameerJB #47:

Thank you:)


FARANGI #48:

Thank you;)

Epihany, indeed.

[e·piph·a·ny -n

a: A sudden manifestation of the essence or meaning of something.

b: A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization.]


aagahee daam-e-shunaidan jis qadd`r ....

or

aata hay daagh-e-husrat-e-dil ka shoomar yad
moojh say meray gunah ka hisab ayekhuda na mang

rgds,

t

temporal:#43

I watched with baited anticipation your sting operation.Alhamdullilah,I was rewarded.Verily,He works in mysterious ways.

Despite my misgivings and benefit-of-doubts you pulled it.

Please do not ruin it by further `explanations`.I`ll savour this for a long time.Needless to remind you that your mischievousness is almost an epiphany.(How do you rate this use of the word?Shabaash.Shukrya!)

__________________________________________________

``Khulta kissi pay kyoon miray dil ka muamlaa

Shairon kay intikhab nay,rusvaa kiyaa mujhay``

__________________________________________________

wassalam.

P.S:I think we`ll get along fine;).

temporal # 43: (For temporal only) The poet is obviously morning the loss of something very dear or he/ she is concerned about the deteriorating situation but unable to come to understand the causes of effects. The last line, ``bunyad kuch to ho`` is very important. It clearly suggest an analytical approach based on reason and logic for understanding of the disappearance of stars in the morning-and extrapolate it to look for reason behind pain and suffering. From this standpoint, you can relate Buddha meditiating under a bo tree thinking about the meaning of life, pain and sorrow, Muhammad contemplating in Hira cave, or Jinnah formulating a plan or ideology as a basis for Pakistan. You may also think of Mansour Hallaj accepting death sentence with a smile because he thought he knew the truth/ reason (oneness with God). The story of Al-Rushd (Averros) and his trail about his philosophy (reason with God at the center) or Al-Rawandi, the great mutzalli (Sp?) and his philosophy (reason with no God).

Also include in this list, Gallileo and what must be going through his mind after being house arrsted by the Church and had to retrieve and criticize his own work. He knew exactly why stars disappear in the daylight. But the best I have kept for the last. It is Socrates and his last speech and thoughts before drinking hammock from the bowl. He did not want to live without thinking/ reason.

The story of Buddha, Gallileo and Socrates could be related to those two stanza you posted in # 43.

This is the downside of the poetry. Too many seemingly different interpretations of the same piece of art. The chaotic mumbo jumbo actually provides an excuse for reason and logic to enter into the picture and settle the interpretation to few more likely ones by looking at each at a time and accepting or rejecting them. For example the Buddha and Muhammad would be rejected because they were not famous at the time of their meditattions. ``kis sheh`r na shuhra huva.........`` is not applicable to them. Similarly, ``hum par tumhari chah ka ilzam hi to hey`` fits with Mansour for his love of God, for Socrates for his love of Athens and for Gallileo for his love of science. But Mansour did not worry about reason for stars disappearing in the morning and he is thus also rejected.

After rejecting all except Gallileo and Socrates, I will go with Socrates.

No more assignments please!!! It takes too much time.

Sameer #40
Its sad that when it comes to interpreting ancient religious texts, we go all literal and rigorous, and are often unwilling to yield on any point even to save a life.

But when it comes to getting to the root of the matter after horrifying ethnic violence or any difficult sad issue affecting the lives of many, where an uncompromising untiring rigorous tenacity IS called for, to get at facts/causes/effects/solutions, we easily lapse into the ambiguity of poetry and philosophy.

Maybe fear of venturing into the unknown is the motivation in both cases.

Pankaj #45
``But hey even chemistry is not the sum of parts. Infact ``the whole`` in science is rarely a mere sum of parts.``

Yes, and the real wonder is that maybe the first single-cell organism was born when some lightning struck some pea-soup :).

Sameer #31

You say

``Prose is better when it comes to acquire detailed knowledge or skills because of its continuous pattern whereas poetry is better for memorizing because of its pulsed or quantized pattern with rythmic quality. Human mind is programmed to focus deeply on rythms and this has led to its use in meditation/ religion``

Superb! Now I know why your posts are so enlightening to read. You always attempt to look at mundane things from a fresh perspective instead of toeing the beaten line. BTW, I never thought it this way. Somehow I got convinced long back that poetry is not my cup of tea. I always find it hard to understand symbolisms embedded in the poetry, and multiplicity of meanings make my task of interpreting arduous.

Sadhana

``poetry is like a human being, more than the sum of its parts viz sundry organic compounds + 70% water. And like humans, a lot of poetry I find hard to understand :-).``

Me too(I mean about the poetry). But hey even chemistry is not the sum of parts. Infact ``the whole`` in science is raraely a mere sum of parts. Sodium atom combines with Chlorine atom to produce Sodium Chloride, or common salt, the properties of which are different from any possible linear combination of the properties of its constituent parts. See you are pitted against two people here: a chemist and a chemical engineer:-). Just nitpicking.

Sincerely

PPS:

.... the second line should be...

Qumri ka tauq halqa-e-bairoon-e-dar....

SameerJB #40

[...The prose is flexible in structure but rigid in meaning. A prose writer will get mad if you find a different meaning in his/ her writing than what the writer intended....] and [...The jihadis/ deobandis/ wahabis seem to be reading Quran as prose and would like it to mean exactly what it meant for the bedoinns of 7th century Arabia. Now if you think it as a poetry, like Veda, the changing of meaning/ interpretation is actually a credit to the beauty of Quranic poetry and the appreciation of the Poet...]

Not necessarily so...The Supreme Court of USA is given the task of continuously re-interpreting the 8000 worded document according to changing needs and times. It can be done; is shown to be done. And sadly, some still don’t learn.


Fully agree that good poetry is multi-layered and lends to changing interpretations that seem to survive changing times.

When Ghalib wrote:

Gulshan maiN bandobast ba’rang-e-deegar hay aaj
Qumri ka halqa-e-tauq bairoon-e-dur hay aaj

he was only lamenting the hijack of India by the English. Today some can interpret it as the stranglehold of the third world, the disparity between North and South, the tyranny of the First world, even the strangle hold of the mis-named talibans in that country to the north.

Oh, without realising I slipped into discussing the ever lasting nature of immortal poetry. There is more to it than choice words, expression, metre, rhythm, thought. This is an intangible element that makes it timeless and universal. There have been thousands of good poets in the past two hundred years. Other than serious scholars of the language, how many of the rest of us know their names. How many of them are still relevant?

Back to your post. The three interpretations you provided are relevant and interpretable from the original submission. But it is more you ingenuity than the poet’s!


Let me give you this light assignment. Consider these short poems and tell me how your imagination would unravel the shades of meaning..

I
Jis roz qaza aa’aye gi
meray dar’d ko jo zubaaN milay
chalo phir say mooskuraiN
yeh mausam-e-gul
hameeN say apni nava hum kalaam hoti rahi
yeh kis khalish nay phir is dil main aashiyana kiya
kis sheh’r na shohra hua na’dani-e-dil ka

II
Sit’m ki rasmaiN buhat theN
baat bus say nikal chali hay...
Hum pur tumhari chah ka ilzaam hee tou hay
fikr-e-sood-o-ziyaan
subha phootin tou aasmaaN pay t’ray
boonyaad kooch tou ho


Will be back to shed some light on this.

regards,

t

PS: PM and fairdinkum: Hum aap kay liyay dua-e-khair karaiN gay. Ab dawa say aap ka eelaaj hona mumkin nahiN nazar aata hay.

Please read poetry instead of history in the first line of my last post.

I suspect an alliance in the making against chemistry. Allah kher kare.....

sadna #38, ``As for me, poetry is like a human being, more than the sum of its parts viz sundry organic compounds + 70% water. And like humans, a lot of poetry I find hard to understand :-).``

i agree with you...that`s the beauty of it

Sadhana: I agree with temporal definition of history as a creative art. I just looked at it from a diffent angle. My chemistry does not interfere at all when it comes to enjoying the beauty of inner and outer world.

Poetry had the faster rate of diffusion than prose in a papreless and media-free environment. Its rythmic qualities also made it resilient to corrption. At the same time, though rigid in form due to the fear of break in the rythm, poetry is more flexible when it comes to extracting the emaning from it. The meanings can easily change with the changing environment with no negative bearing on poetry and poets. Actually it is a credit to poets when people see different meanings than the poet because of the extensive use of symbolism in poetry.

The prose is flexible in structure but rigid in meaning. A prose writer will get mad if you find a different meaning in his/ her writing than what the writer intended.

The jihadis/ deobandis/ wahabis seem to be reading Quran as prose and would like it to mean exactly what it meant for the bedoinns of 7th century Arabia. Now if you think it as a poetry, like Veda, the changing of meaning/ interpretation is actually a credit to the beauty of Quranic poetry and the appreciation of the Poet.

I have no doubt in my mind that Hussain Burhani`s meant his poem to be about a boy-girl love. But consider the following three interpretations and see how they credit him for using easy and common symbolism.

1) He was passionate about his religion but the bitter experiences have turned that passion into anger, to hurt and he finally closes the chapter by swallowing the keys-Abandoning religion.

2) He was passionate about Pakistan but recent history has turned his passion into anger, hurt and he finally swallows the keys-getting green card and not wishing to go back.

3) he was madly in love with his beloved city Karachi. He kissed the ground last time when he boarded a flight to New York. The events taken place in Karachi during last several years has turned his passion into anger, hurt and he has closed the box and swallowed the keys-becoming passionate about Atlanta.

None of these was the aim of the poet. Yet he is not being ridiculed by different interpretations.

PM: Are bhai yeh chowk hey. Yahan baat se baat nikalti hey. Aur kabhi kabhi baat chemistry ki taraf bhi chali jati hey. Here is how interaction at chowk find direction.

BUTT SAHIB se butt-tameez......waisey butt kashmiri hotey hain......aur kashmir india-pakistan ke beech dushmani ke jarh hey......jarh kharboozey ke pukki hoti hey.......aur kharbooza kharboozey ko dekh je rang pakarta hey.......aur rang jaman ka pukka hota hey......aur jaman pakistan ke kuch logoN ko buhut pasand haiN.......pakistan jinnah sahib ne banaya.......aur wolpert aur ayesha jalal ne jinnah per kitabaiN likheeN........aur ayesha jalal minto ke gharaney se haiN.....aur minto ki mashhoor kahani toba tek singh hey........ab toba tek singh aik district hey.........aur ab her district maiN nazim hoa kareN gay......jamat-e-islami apne district ke head ko pehle hi se nazim kehti hey......aur JI ke lahore ke nazim haiN BUTT SAHIB.

Baat se jo baat nikalti hey asar rakhti hey

per naheeN taqat-e-parwaz magar rakhti hey

PM #32,

kya karun, baron kay agay sar jhukta hai aksar...

Sameer #31
``Because poetry is less corruptible because of rhythmic qualities, memorizable..`` ``.. Human mind is programmed to focus deeply on rhythms..``

Hey never thought of it that way, thanks!

But for even rhythmic words/sounds to evoke a sense of beauty, there needs to be overall harmony or integrity. That may be partly what temporal means.

As for me, poetry is like a human being, more than the sum of its parts viz sundry organic compounds + 70% water. And like humans, a lot of poetry I find hard to understand :-).

Sadhana

re. sharayar #35

``and some people bringing out meanings and dimensions which certainly would have eluded the poet,is certainly an interesting thing....``

yeah, kinda reminds of those expe... ahh, never mind...

Sameer (re. #31)

And what do plan on doing with life *after * demystifying all of life`s little mysteries?

:)

j/k. actually, i find your `chemical treatment` of matters quite interesting... just wonder whether that mightn`t get in the way of enjoying those experiences?!?

rgds,

PM

Just as expected....an interesting debate ensued:)

However a simple,peurile poem generating such scholarly discussion and some people bringing out meanings and dimensions which certainly would have eluded the poet,is certainly an interesting thing....

:)

In response to PM (Reply # 33)
Dear Patrick:

What is so wrong with you guys? You made me laugh, as Fairdinkum did on another board. Thanks, anyhow!

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Urstruly, in #25 quoted Dr. Younus Butt

``Shairee ka sab say bara faida yeh hay keh nah parhnay say nuqsaan nahi hota``

ji haN... aur issi tara achhi mossiki nah sunnae sey, achha `art` na daikhnay sey, aur laziz khana nah khanay sey koi nugsaan nahi hota, na bhai?

Butt sahib to waqii Butt-Tameez lagtha hai.:)

scout:

``this is solely my garbled opinion, how could i even argue with a professional :)``

Why the defensive footnote? Why the nervous smile?

temporal might have the eys/mind of a professional but, clearly, sometimes he turns his heart off when that critic`s pen is in his hand. Of course, *he * believes he`s doing the poet a service.

I say we condemn the guy to five readings of The Wasteland. What say ye??

aah temporal miaN-- kar loo jo karna hai!

nosmileyfacehereeither

P.

Hussain wrote:

and that box has been locked

and the key swallowed

yet it steals the heat from my veins

making me so cold

i know you feel that way

I think the author here is making a distinction between yearning and hopelessness, a fatalistic approach. He has come to term with the fact that from now it will ony be a memory that will keep staeling heat from blood vessels and making feel cold.

The locking of the box and key swallowed is equivalent to the impossibility of reviving the passionate relationship.

Re: Poetry

Saying more with less is a modern interpretation of an art form of creation. Poetry is actually a useful tool for memorization and that alone has evloved us into appreciating it. When there was no writing and record keeping, poetry kept the knowledge passing from generation to generation. Have you ever wonder why most myths, Homer`s work, Rig-Veda is preserved for such a long time? Because poetry is less corruptible because of rythmic qualities, memorizable and passable to a large number of people simultaneously. Any attempt to corrupt passages by few will be rejected by many others and thus the wisdom and knowledge will pass to next generation unaltered. Had Rig-Veda been in prose, it would have changed beyond recognition by now and scholars would have labelled it as ``not original``.

The rythmic qualities, the pattern and structured words are easy for mind to store in memory. No wonder, people remember whole songs, poems and ghazals for years without practicing to keep them in the memory. Same can not be said about prose. How many people do remember a word-by-word story writteen by Minto, Munshi Prem Chand or Krishan Chander? Prose is better when it comes to acquire detailed knowledge or skills because of its continuous pattern whereas poetry is better for memorizing because of its pulsed or quantized pattern with rythmic quality. Human mind is programmed to focus deeply on rythms and this has led to its use in meditation/ religion, not to speak of multi-billion dollar music industry. People can actually go into trance listening to Rig-Veda or qawwalis due to brain chemistry, attention and focus associated with rythms.

In response to fairdinkum (Reply # 29)

Dear Fairdinkum:

Your statement: ``temporal kar loo joo karna hai!!``

My reply: I just laughed (initally)! Now, I am smiling. Thanks! I am sure, temporal is smiling too.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

well, i liked the poem! and i don`t care whether its has or hasn`t been approved by temporal or signed by a senator :)

temporal kar loo joo karna hai!! :)

t-bhai #27,

i was just trying to make the guy feel better :)

sometimes positive reinforcement encourages people to write more passionately. being bombarded with criticisms might push a budding poet into the corner from which he came from.

we can`t expect the same quality of work from a seasoned poet vs. someone`s who`s starting out (which i think this poet is).

this is solely my garbled opinion, how could i even argue with a professional :)

scout #24:

[...Poetry is usually written for yourself, and if you share it with others, that is your gift to us...]

I beg to disagree.

Poetry or any good piece of writing for that matter, should resonate with the reader. It should find a home in reader’s mind and reverberate; bring upheaval in that lake or ocean of emotions that is made up of those gray cells.

The odd times I sing in the shower. If foolishly, some day I decide to perform in public, I better make sure I have my basics right---have some talent, practice (reyaaz), musical knowledge, vocal chords, nerve and verve to perform on stage.

Poetry written for one’s own gratification should and must at least meet a certain minimum criteria before it airs in public.

I would never deflect public criticism of anything I publish by saying I wrote it only for my self. That would be cop out.


PM #23:

[...And don`t ask me to explain what that means, ok!...]
OK......whatever....:)


Shirin Ahmed #20:
[...i dare say with a lot of Grace....]
Thank you....I think you made my day:)

SameerJB #12:

Thank you.

As I told brotherm hamidm poetry is also the art of saying more with less.

Hali, the contemporary of that other influential desi ‘Sir’ was once challenged to narrate this long story in a couplet. (I am condenscing the long narration.) Prophet Abraham prayed for someone from his future family to come for salvation of his people(he must have a premonition that they would go astray?) Prophet Issa predicted his coming. Aamna gave birth to him.

Hali thought and write out this:

Hoo’iee pehloo-e-Aamna say howeeda
Du’a-e-Khalil aur naveed-e-Maseeha

tahmed321

Yaar kiyouN jhagRRa karana chahtay ho?


..........and finally...


ahmadb #18:

Thank you for the response.

[...since poetry is your passion...]

See, you have made a subtle choice when you selected the word passion. You could have used any one of the several words from yearning, mania, obsession, love, inclination, fondness, sickness, inspiration etc. But you selected that one word that you think best reflects what you want to convey.

Good writing, in any language, is almost always dependent on an impeccable choice of words, laid out, brick by brick to build that monument in thin air. Missing or extra bricks make the monument appear flawed just like in writing.

[You know the old adage: those who can, do; those who can’t teach/critique? There are always some who endlessly criticize this seemingly undue emphasis I place on choice of words in English. They forget that I use the same criteria for Urdu: the other language I know and write in.]

This is a good simple poem. I agree. But despite its simplicity, the poet has not effectively used the words to their full potential.

The words used are ambivalent not in a specific and intentional sense about whose loneliness is being addressed but perhaps unintentionally in an unskilled and uncontrolled way. Romantic touch is only alluded to, not directly or indirectly established.

You say, “The poet is perhaps talking about the withering away of the feeling of loneliness of his/her beloved (this still does not establish that the feeling of the poet has withered away).

Precisely. If words were used succinctly, the desired connotation is not that difficult to suggest here.

Look at these words from your reply .....[ I think.... But....If we assume ..... we surely can develop a link....]

In the link from passion to desire, crossing the bridges of anger and hurt a strong impression is created that unfulfilled passion leads to desire. I am ofcourse being ridiculous and subjective here:)

[...Q11: Is this a short, simple poem? My reply: It depends upon how you see it. This is a short poem, which is simple in its writing style (not in the ideas, feelings, and philosophy)...]

---smiling....I think you got the message.

(approp.) love and regards,

temporal

Temporal, Ahmadb

interesting discussion! Thank you ahmadb for bringing forth those points, i agree with those and that`s how the poem toched me.

The development of passion, anger and desire is clear..and as someone else said..you know it if you`ve been there.

My interpretation in short was...loving someone, and losing them (to someone else? or something else?), thus the anger, and once the time erodes the anger...the desire...remains frozen in time.

All the same great poem! Keep writing and please do interact ;)

And as for the discussion on why do people write/read poetry...I would suggest the person to try different kinds of poetry...but not before a number of things have touched their own heart. Love, poverty...you pick what moves you and when you read some poetry about that...you`ll feel different. It was different in school, as 14 yr olds memorizing poetry...that was just mental exercise.

Brat

Temporal, Ahmadb

interesting discussion! Thank you ahmadb for bringing forth those points, i agree with those and that`s how the poem toched me.

The development of passion, anger and desire is clear..and as someone else said..you know it if you`ve been there.

My interpretation in short was...loving someone, and losing them (to someone else? or something else?), thus the anger, and once the time erodes the anger...the desire...remains frozen in time.

All the same great poem! Keep writing and please do interact ;)

And as for the discussion on why do people write/read poetry...I would suggest the person to try different kinds of poetry...but not before a number of things have touched their own heart. Love, poverty...you pick what moves you and when you read some poetry about that...you`ll feel different. It was different in school, as 14 yr olds memorizing poetry...that was just mental exercise.

Brat

Hamidm

``Shairee ka sab say bara faida yeh hay keh nah parhnay say nuqsaan nahi hota``

Dr. Younus Butt in his book: Butt-TameeziaN.

Hussain,

It was a nice poem. No matter what people say.

Poetry is usually written for yourself, and if you share it with others, that is your gift to us.

And self made gifts from strangers are precious.

(vomit)

just kidding

To the critics:

Before we deconstruct and analyse the poem, lets remember that poetry is upposed to be read by the heart. And don`t ask me to explai what that means, ok!

I guess sometimes you just gotta have been there to appreciate some poetry.

Poignant. Moving. Unpretentious.

Nice!

Welcome!

rgds,

PM

P.S. how`d you manage to make it to Creative Loafing? :-)

Move along, friend, please move along . . . when you reach my age, it is the collection of multiple last kisses that you store in your memories which add up to probably the best gifts anybody ever gave you in life . . . or gifts you snatched like setting sun rays and red twilight skies . . . cheers

Dear Hussain ,

I think it is time for you to come forth and bail everyone out ! Your poem has been thrashed pretty well , i dare say with a lot of Grace .

No offence to anyone,as everyone`s interpretations are different,and rightly so!

However it would be very nice to get a feed back from you !

the vibrant interractions , have added that extra bite to the site ! :)

Thank you ,

Shirin

zara #16, ``can all of you make an effort to be friendly and kind or is it against the rule here...``

that`s no fun :)

In response to temporal (Reply # 8)
Dear Temporal:

This is an interesting exercise. I am a bit scared about your literary-critical reaction (since poetry is your passion). Anyhow, let me try.

Hussain wrote:
it`s been so long
all that time has seeped away
all that solitude
i hope you feel that way

Your comment: “The first line is obvious. The second and third together indicate that the passage of that time has diffused or done away with the loneliness. Q. 1. Whose loneliness? Q. 2. Who has company now? One or the other or both?”

My reply: The poet is writing about the “Last Kiss.” You may call it “Last Touch” . . . or something different/better. Let us assume it is a romantic kiss/touch between two souls (imaginary or real). The stanza does indeed suggest the withering away of loneliness, though there is no indication of new company. The poet is perhaps talking about the withering away of the feeling of loneliness of his/her beloved (this still does not establish that the feeling of the poet has withered away).

Your Q. 3a: What feelings the poet is writing about?

My reply: I think, it is the feeling of solitude of the poet’s beloved. But, in the second stanza the poet starts describing his/her own condition (passion to anger) and the environment (wilderness, wind).

Q3b: Has he succeeded in linking this line with the rest of the poem so far? Q3c: What is he hoping for?

My reply: If we assume that, in the first stanza, the poet was not talking about him/her, we surely can develop a link.

Hussain wrote (III stanza):
anger has turned to hurt
the heart lies broken
and the angels are crying

Q4: Why are the angels crying? (Treat this as a deceptively simple trick question.)

My reply: The poet is in fact describing his/her condition. The angels do not want to see anyone hurt and any heart broken. Hence, they are crying.

Hussain wrote (IV stanza):
hurt has turned to desire
it waits so patiently
frozen in time as life goes by

You wrote: “The passion turned into anger(stanza II) which turned into hurt (stanza III). This hurt turned into desire (stanza IV.) Q5a: What is the difference between passion and desire. Q5b: Do you agree with the stages in this transformation? Q5c: If you disagree, give reasons. Q6: Why does this desire has no choice but to wait patiently?”

My reply: Passion means emotion or ardent affection or desire for something or sexual desire or devotion to something. Desire as compared to want or wish or crave or longing stresses the strength of feeling (strong aim or intention). I have no apparent difficulty with the stages in the transformation (from passion to anger to hurt to desire). I think, in love, desire persists over a long time period (it feels as if time has stopped/contained and the feeling therefore fails to change).

Hussain wrote:
and that box has been locked
and the key swallowed
yet it steals the heat from my veins
making me so cold
i know you feel that way

You ask: “Q7: Which box is being referred here? Q8: How does the key steals or takes away the heat from his veins? Q9: How can you be certain the poet knows how the other one feels? Q10: How has this thought been communicated by the other to the poet?”

My reply: I think, it the box (of feelings) that has contained time/moment (and vice versa). The poet is talking about feelings (hence the key frozen in time). Love is a relationship, and all other things follow according to the logic of love (and feelings, passion, hurt, anger, desire, etc).

You finally ask: “And after you have gone through the above. Q11: Is this a short, simple poem?”

My reply: It depends upon how you see it. This is a short poem, which is simple in its writing style (not in the ideas, feelings, and philosophy).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

hamidm #14:

brotherm:

....poetry is what else but the art of saying more with less....as in the urbane witticisms and ridicule of a certain fellow on chowk who has all but copyrighted the style...but don’t you get it now?.....I can understand not getting it then .... but if you don’t get it now stop complaining....you could score three more times...I have it from an high authority that you quoted once....think it was Ras or it could be yours truly .. when discussing orthodox and liberal Muslims .... agreed former don’t get enough of it and the latter do get it regularly...but then this digression is neither here nor there ... and why is this Hussain stalled ... thought Yazid is done....can someone page him?

hamidm #14 If poetry was a means for tax evasion, as you suggest, BB and NS would be competing for the title of poet laureate. You also pick one of my favorite pieces of poetry to illustrate your various points, but unfortunately leave out the best part:

``...A savage place ! as holy and enchanted

As e`er beneath a waning moon was haunted

By woman wailing for her demon-lover !...``

Of these lines, a famous critic (whose name I cannot recall right now) wrote that in all of English literature ``These lines are pure magic, the rest is only literature``.

Dear All

`` at chowk you are welcome to read write and think``

can all of you make an effort to be friendly and kind or is it against the rule here...

regards

zara

temporal #8 I think I know the answer to your question 4 ``Why are the angels crying?`` - They have been following too many chowk discussions. Right, professor?

temporal

.... it is bad enough having to suffer poets and fools - do we also have to suffer critics graciously ?

..... at the risk of showing my ignorance, i must admit that i never quite saw the point of poetry.... was poetry invented because of a shortage of paper and ink?.... or was it a devious way to get around a tax on words and complete sentences ? ....or was it invented to torture future generations of hapless students made to look like fools by cranky welsh spinsters?...what does a poet hope to accomplish by leaving a lot of white space ? is the reader supposed to fill it in ? ..... and talk about poetic license - is it a license to torture plain old rational folks and publishers and english -101 students who are struggling with calc-1 ..... as a child i was made to memorize the following gibberish - i didn`t get it then and i don`t get it now :

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan

A stately pleasure dome decree:

Where Alph, the sacred river, ran

Through caverns measureless to man

Down to a sunless sea.

So twice five miles of fertile ground

With walls and towers were girdled round:

And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,

Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree;

And here were forests ancient as the hills

Enfolding ...enfolding ... enfolding

........ some nights i still wake up in a cold sweat, racking my brain for what the heck was enfolding ... enfolding .... that`s it !

... enfolding sunny spots of greenery

phew ! what a relief ... and still trembling from the ordeal i try to go back to sleep...... ! i still don`t know what a sinuous rill is and don`t care what ails christabel`s mastiff !

uMmmmMMmMm...find it pretty ordinary...no offence though:)

temporal # 8: I will definitely get an ``F`` from you if I had to answer your tough questions. Here is something just for fun: a telephone conversation.

(M)

Tamam um`r tera intezar hum ne kiya

is intezar maiN kiss kiss se pyar hum ne kiya

I hope you fell that way

(F)

Tum se bichharh ke hum bhi muqaddar ke ho gaye

phir jo bhi der mila hey usi der ke ho gaye

I hope you feel that way

(M,F)

Mujh se pehli se mohabbat mere....

Likewise!!!!!!!!

Next time Mr.Burhani gets the urge to write and then the itch to publish it,he should get his true worth tested by doing the following:

1)Use a moniker such as Allah Rakha.

2)claim that he went to the Kharadar madressa.

3)sprinkle it with words & phrases which show his passion,desire,hurt & anger about muslims & Islam.

4)Avoid any semblence of being westernised.

It might be an eye-opening experience for him and his KGS schooling might bring some realities home.

He might think of planting his last kiss on `Literature` and start writing essays & articles instead.

i have always loved poems in CHOWK but your lines are touching and deep.i hope we`ll get to read more stuff like this from you.

p.s i am planning to go to Emory too.

ahmadb #1:

You wrote “A short, simple, and penetrating poem that even a person like me could appreciate. Well done!”

Since it is evident from your replies on your boards that you read every interact and pay special attention to the words, I would ask you some questions. And since you are not only a gentleman but a scholar also, I hope you’d ignore this questioning mode.

The poet writes:

I
it`s been so long
all that time has seeped away
all that solitude
i hope you feel that way

The first line is obvious. The second and third together indicate that the passage of that time has diffused or done away with the loneliness.

Q1: Whose loneliness?

Moving on, loneliness can be replaced by company. If loneliness has withered away, than whoever was lonely has company now. Since there are wistful, alluring references later on, let us assume that the poet is writing about two people. (We will ignore for now whether they were lovers, parent and child or two friends.)

Q2: Who has company now? One or the other or both?

Q3a: What feelings the poet is writing about?
Q3b: Has he succeeded in linking this line with the rest of the poem so far?
Q3c: What is he hoping for?

III
anger has turned to hurt
the heart lies broken
and the angels are crying

Q4: Why are the angels crying? (Treat this as a deceptively simple trick question.)

IV
hurt has turned to desire
it waits so patiently
frozen in time as life goes by

The passion turned into anger(stanza II) which turned into hurt (stanza III). This hurt turned into desire (stanza IV.)

Q5a: What is the difference between passion and desire.
Q5b: Do you agree with the stages in this transformation?
Q5c: If you disagree, give reasons.

Q6: Why does this desire has no choice but to wait patiently?


V
and that box has been locked
and the key swallowed
yet it steals the heat from my veins
making me so cold
i know you feel that way


Q7: Which box is being referred here?

Q8: How does the key steals or takes away the heat from his veins?

Q9: How can you be certain the poet knows how the other one feels?

Q10: How has this thought been communicated by the other to the poet?

And after you have gone through the above.

Q11: Is this a short, simple poem?

regards,

temporal

PS: Hussain, welcome to Chowk. Please keep writing.

Hussain:

A very warm welcome to Chowk. Loved the ebb and flow. Please contribute more.

later

-sac

Welcome to CHOWK Hussain!
A Well written poem here.
I`m sure glad that more KGS people are discovering this site and contributing to it.

Ras

Hello Hussain Burhani, I saw your name it rang a bell and after seeing that you go to school at Emory I knew it was none other than the guy who I know and have to talked to once on the phone long time ago, yet never met, I guess the people we both know are Fatima and Shanza, anyways a well written poem, hope you are doing well buddy!

Take care.

Hussain,

At your age you ought to be thinking of the next first kiss.

Beautifully written !The subtle changes in the feelings are well portrayed .

I shall be looking out for your work ! well done .

Shirin

Very nice. I hope it`s not based on personal experience....if it is, I am sure the words only partly reflect how you must feel.

Dear Hussain Burhani:

A short, simple, and penetrating poem that even a person like me could appreciate. Well done!

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad