Last Kiss

re. sharayar #35

``and some people bringing out meanings and dimensions which certainly would have eluded the poet,is certainly an interesting thing....``

yeah, kinda reminds of those expe... ahh, never mind...

Sameer (re. #31)

And what do plan on doing with life *after * demystifying all of life`s little mysteries?

:)

j/k. actually, i find your `chemical treatment` of matters quite interesting... just wonder whether that mightn`t get in the way of enjoying those experiences?!?

rgds,

PM

Just as expected....an interesting debate ensued:)

However a simple,peurile poem generating such scholarly discussion and some people bringing out meanings and dimensions which certainly would have eluded the poet,is certainly an interesting thing....

:)

In response to PM (Reply # 33)
Dear Patrick:

What is so wrong with you guys? You made me laugh, as Fairdinkum did on another board. Thanks, anyhow!

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Urstruly, in #25 quoted Dr. Younus Butt

``Shairee ka sab say bara faida yeh hay keh nah parhnay say nuqsaan nahi hota``

ji haN... aur issi tara achhi mossiki nah sunnae sey, achha `art` na daikhnay sey, aur laziz khana nah khanay sey koi nugsaan nahi hota, na bhai?

Butt sahib to waqii Butt-Tameez lagtha hai.:)

scout:

``this is solely my garbled opinion, how could i even argue with a professional :)``

Why the defensive footnote? Why the nervous smile?

temporal might have the eys/mind of a professional but, clearly, sometimes he turns his heart off when that critic`s pen is in his hand. Of course, *he * believes he`s doing the poet a service.

I say we condemn the guy to five readings of The Wasteland. What say ye??

aah temporal miaN-- kar loo jo karna hai!

nosmileyfacehereeither

P.

Hussain wrote:

and that box has been locked

and the key swallowed

yet it steals the heat from my veins

making me so cold

i know you feel that way

I think the author here is making a distinction between yearning and hopelessness, a fatalistic approach. He has come to term with the fact that from now it will ony be a memory that will keep staeling heat from blood vessels and making feel cold.

The locking of the box and key swallowed is equivalent to the impossibility of reviving the passionate relationship.

Re: Poetry

Saying more with less is a modern interpretation of an art form of creation. Poetry is actually a useful tool for memorization and that alone has evloved us into appreciating it. When there was no writing and record keeping, poetry kept the knowledge passing from generation to generation. Have you ever wonder why most myths, Homer`s work, Rig-Veda is preserved for such a long time? Because poetry is less corruptible because of rythmic qualities, memorizable and passable to a large number of people simultaneously. Any attempt to corrupt passages by few will be rejected by many others and thus the wisdom and knowledge will pass to next generation unaltered. Had Rig-Veda been in prose, it would have changed beyond recognition by now and scholars would have labelled it as ``not original``.

The rythmic qualities, the pattern and structured words are easy for mind to store in memory. No wonder, people remember whole songs, poems and ghazals for years without practicing to keep them in the memory. Same can not be said about prose. How many people do remember a word-by-word story writteen by Minto, Munshi Prem Chand or Krishan Chander? Prose is better when it comes to acquire detailed knowledge or skills because of its continuous pattern whereas poetry is better for memorizing because of its pulsed or quantized pattern with rythmic quality. Human mind is programmed to focus deeply on rythms and this has led to its use in meditation/ religion, not to speak of multi-billion dollar music industry. People can actually go into trance listening to Rig-Veda or qawwalis due to brain chemistry, attention and focus associated with rythms.

In response to fairdinkum (Reply # 29)

Dear Fairdinkum:

Your statement: ``temporal kar loo joo karna hai!!``

My reply: I just laughed (initally)! Now, I am smiling. Thanks! I am sure, temporal is smiling too.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

well, i liked the poem! and i don`t care whether its has or hasn`t been approved by temporal or signed by a senator :)

temporal kar loo joo karna hai!! :)

t-bhai #27,

i was just trying to make the guy feel better :)

sometimes positive reinforcement encourages people to write more passionately. being bombarded with criticisms might push a budding poet into the corner from which he came from.

we can`t expect the same quality of work from a seasoned poet vs. someone`s who`s starting out (which i think this poet is).

this is solely my garbled opinion, how could i even argue with a professional :)

scout #24:

[...Poetry is usually written for yourself, and if you share it with others, that is your gift to us...]

I beg to disagree.

Poetry or any good piece of writing for that matter, should resonate with the reader. It should find a home in reader’s mind and reverberate; bring upheaval in that lake or ocean of emotions that is made up of those gray cells.

The odd times I sing in the shower. If foolishly, some day I decide to perform in public, I better make sure I have my basics right---have some talent, practice (reyaaz), musical knowledge, vocal chords, nerve and verve to perform on stage.

Poetry written for one’s own gratification should and must at least meet a certain minimum criteria before it airs in public.

I would never deflect public criticism of anything I publish by saying I wrote it only for my self. That would be cop out.


PM #23:

[...And don`t ask me to explain what that means, ok!...]
OK......whatever....:)


Shirin Ahmed #20:
[...i dare say with a lot of Grace....]
Thank you....I think you made my day:)

SameerJB #12:

Thank you.

As I told brotherm hamidm poetry is also the art of saying more with less.

Hali, the contemporary of that other influential desi ‘Sir’ was once challenged to narrate this long story in a couplet. (I am condenscing the long narration.) Prophet Abraham prayed for someone from his future family to come for salvation of his people(he must have a premonition that they would go astray?) Prophet Issa predicted his coming. Aamna gave birth to him.

Hali thought and write out this:

Hoo’iee pehloo-e-Aamna say howeeda
Du’a-e-Khalil aur naveed-e-Maseeha

tahmed321

Yaar kiyouN jhagRRa karana chahtay ho?


..........and finally...


ahmadb #18:

Thank you for the response.

[...since poetry is your passion...]

See, you have made a subtle choice when you selected the word passion. You could have used any one of the several words from yearning, mania, obsession, love, inclination, fondness, sickness, inspiration etc. But you selected that one word that you think best reflects what you want to convey.

Good writing, in any language, is almost always dependent on an impeccable choice of words, laid out, brick by brick to build that monument in thin air. Missing or extra bricks make the monument appear flawed just like in writing.

[You know the old adage: those who can, do; those who can’t teach/critique? There are always some who endlessly criticize this seemingly undue emphasis I place on choice of words in English. They forget that I use the same criteria for Urdu: the other language I know and write in.]

This is a good simple poem. I agree. But despite its simplicity, the poet has not effectively used the words to their full potential.

The words used are ambivalent not in a specific and intentional sense about whose loneliness is being addressed but perhaps unintentionally in an unskilled and uncontrolled way. Romantic touch is only alluded to, not directly or indirectly established.

You say, “The poet is perhaps talking about the withering away of the feeling of loneliness of his/her beloved (this still does not establish that the feeling of the poet has withered away).

Precisely. If words were used succinctly, the desired connotation is not that difficult to suggest here.

Look at these words from your reply .....[ I think.... But....If we assume ..... we surely can develop a link....]

In the link from passion to desire, crossing the bridges of anger and hurt a strong impression is created that unfulfilled passion leads to desire. I am ofcourse being ridiculous and subjective here:)

[...Q11: Is this a short, simple poem? My reply: It depends upon how you see it. This is a short poem, which is simple in its writing style (not in the ideas, feelings, and philosophy)...]

---smiling....I think you got the message.

(approp.) love and regards,

temporal

Temporal, Ahmadb

interesting discussion! Thank you ahmadb for bringing forth those points, i agree with those and that`s how the poem toched me.

The development of passion, anger and desire is clear..and as someone else said..you know it if you`ve been there.

My interpretation in short was...loving someone, and losing them (to someone else? or something else?), thus the anger, and once the time erodes the anger...the desire...remains frozen in time.

All the same great poem! Keep writing and please do interact ;)

And as for the discussion on why do people write/read poetry...I would suggest the person to try different kinds of poetry...but not before a number of things have touched their own heart. Love, poverty...you pick what moves you and when you read some poetry about that...you`ll feel different. It was different in school, as 14 yr olds memorizing poetry...that was just mental exercise.

Brat

Temporal, Ahmadb

interesting discussion! Thank you ahmadb for bringing forth those points, i agree with those and that`s how the poem toched me.

The development of passion, anger and desire is clear..and as someone else said..you know it if you`ve been there.

My interpretation in short was...loving someone, and losing them (to someone else? or something else?), thus the anger, and once the time erodes the anger...the desire...remains frozen in time.

All the same great poem! Keep writing and please do interact ;)

And as for the discussion on why do people write/read poetry...I would suggest the person to try different kinds of poetry...but not before a number of things have touched their own heart. Love, poverty...you pick what moves you and when you read some poetry about that...you`ll feel different. It was different in school, as 14 yr olds memorizing poetry...that was just mental exercise.

Brat

Hamidm

``Shairee ka sab say bara faida yeh hay keh nah parhnay say nuqsaan nahi hota``

Dr. Younus Butt in his book: Butt-TameeziaN.

Hussain,

It was a nice poem. No matter what people say.

Poetry is usually written for yourself, and if you share it with others, that is your gift to us.

And self made gifts from strangers are precious.

(vomit)

just kidding

To the critics:

Before we deconstruct and analyse the poem, lets remember that poetry is upposed to be read by the heart. And don`t ask me to explai what that means, ok!

I guess sometimes you just gotta have been there to appreciate some poetry.