Last Kiss

hamidm #14:

brotherm:

....poetry is what else but the art of saying more with less....as in the urbane witticisms and ridicule of a certain fellow on chowk who has all but copyrighted the style...but don’t you get it now?.....I can understand not getting it then .... but if you don’t get it now stop complaining....you could score three more times...I have it from an high authority that you quoted once....think it was Ras or it could be yours truly .. when discussing orthodox and liberal Muslims .... agreed former don’t get enough of it and the latter do get it regularly...but then this digression is neither here nor there ... and why is this Hussain stalled ... thought Yazid is done....can someone page him?

In response to temporal (Reply # 8)
Dear Temporal:

This is an interesting exercise. I am a bit scared about your literary-critical reaction (since poetry is your passion). Anyhow, let me try.

Hussain wrote:
it`s been so long
all that time has seeped away
all that solitude
i hope you feel that way

Your comment: “The first line is obvious. The second and third together indicate that the passage of that time has diffused or done away with the loneliness. Q. 1. Whose loneliness? Q. 2. Who has company now? One or the other or both?”

My reply: The poet is writing about the “Last Kiss.” You may call it “Last Touch” . . . or something different/better. Let us assume it is a romantic kiss/touch between two souls (imaginary or real). The stanza does indeed suggest the withering away of loneliness, though there is no indication of new company. The poet is perhaps talking about the withering away of the feeling of loneliness of his/her beloved (this still does not establish that the feeling of the poet has withered away).

Your Q. 3a: What feelings the poet is writing about?

My reply: I think, it is the feeling of solitude of the poet’s beloved. But, in the second stanza the poet starts describing his/her own condition (passion to anger) and the environment (wilderness, wind).

Q3b: Has he succeeded in linking this line with the rest of the poem so far? Q3c: What is he hoping for?

My reply: If we assume that, in the first stanza, the poet was not talking about him/her, we surely can develop a link.

Hussain wrote (III stanza):
anger has turned to hurt
the heart lies broken
and the angels are crying

Q4: Why are the angels crying? (Treat this as a deceptively simple trick question.)

My reply: The poet is in fact describing his/her condition. The angels do not want to see anyone hurt and any heart broken. Hence, they are crying.

Hussain wrote (IV stanza):
hurt has turned to desire
it waits so patiently
frozen in time as life goes by

You wrote: “The passion turned into anger(stanza II) which turned into hurt (stanza III). This hurt turned into desire (stanza IV.) Q5a: What is the difference between passion and desire. Q5b: Do you agree with the stages in this transformation? Q5c: If you disagree, give reasons. Q6: Why does this desire has no choice but to wait patiently?”

My reply: Passion means emotion or ardent affection or desire for something or sexual desire or devotion to something. Desire as compared to want or wish or crave or longing stresses the strength of feeling (strong aim or intention). I have no apparent difficulty with the stages in the transformation (from passion to anger to hurt to desire). I think, in love, desire persists over a long time period (it feels as if time has stopped/contained and the feeling therefore fails to change).

Hussain wrote:
and that box has been locked
and the key swallowed
yet it steals the heat from my veins
making me so cold
i know you feel that way

You ask: “Q7: Which box is being referred here? Q8: How does the key steals or takes away the heat from his veins? Q9: How can you be certain the poet knows how the other one feels? Q10: How has this thought been communicated by the other to the poet?”

My reply: I think, it the box (of feelings) that has contained time/moment (and vice versa). The poet is talking about feelings (hence the key frozen in time). Love is a relationship, and all other things follow according to the logic of love (and feelings, passion, hurt, anger, desire, etc).

You finally ask: “And after you have gone through the above. Q11: Is this a short, simple poem?”

My reply: It depends upon how you see it. This is a short poem, which is simple in its writing style (not in the ideas, feelings, and philosophy).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

zara #16, ``can all of you make an effort to be friendly and kind or is it against the rule here...``

that`s no fun :)

Dear Hussain ,

I think it is time for you to come forth and bail everyone out ! Your poem has been thrashed pretty well , i dare say with a lot of Grace .

No offence to anyone,as everyone`s interpretations are different,and rightly so!

However it would be very nice to get a feed back from you !

the vibrant interractions , have added that extra bite to the site ! :)

Thank you ,

Shirin

Move along, friend, please move along . . . when you reach my age, it is the collection of multiple last kisses that you store in your memories which add up to probably the best gifts anybody ever gave you in life . . . or gifts you snatched like setting sun rays and red twilight skies . . . cheers

Poignant. Moving. Unpretentious.

Nice!

Welcome!

rgds,

PM

P.S. how`d you manage to make it to Creative Loafing? :-)

To the critics:

Before we deconstruct and analyse the poem, lets remember that poetry is upposed to be read by the heart. And don`t ask me to explai what that means, ok!

I guess sometimes you just gotta have been there to appreciate some poetry.

Hussain,

It was a nice poem. No matter what people say.

Poetry is usually written for yourself, and if you share it with others, that is your gift to us.

And self made gifts from strangers are precious.

(vomit)

just kidding

Hamidm

``Shairee ka sab say bara faida yeh hay keh nah parhnay say nuqsaan nahi hota``

Dr. Younus Butt in his book: Butt-TameeziaN.

Temporal, Ahmadb

interesting discussion! Thank you ahmadb for bringing forth those points, i agree with those and that`s how the poem toched me.

The development of passion, anger and desire is clear..and as someone else said..you know it if you`ve been there.

My interpretation in short was...loving someone, and losing them (to someone else? or something else?), thus the anger, and once the time erodes the anger...the desire...remains frozen in time.

All the same great poem! Keep writing and please do interact ;)

And as for the discussion on why do people write/read poetry...I would suggest the person to try different kinds of poetry...but not before a number of things have touched their own heart. Love, poverty...you pick what moves you and when you read some poetry about that...you`ll feel different. It was different in school, as 14 yr olds memorizing poetry...that was just mental exercise.

Brat

Temporal, Ahmadb

interesting discussion! Thank you ahmadb for bringing forth those points, i agree with those and that`s how the poem toched me.

The development of passion, anger and desire is clear..and as someone else said..you know it if you`ve been there.

My interpretation in short was...loving someone, and losing them (to someone else? or something else?), thus the anger, and once the time erodes the anger...the desire...remains frozen in time.

All the same great poem! Keep writing and please do interact ;)

And as for the discussion on why do people write/read poetry...I would suggest the person to try different kinds of poetry...but not before a number of things have touched their own heart. Love, poverty...you pick what moves you and when you read some poetry about that...you`ll feel different. It was different in school, as 14 yr olds memorizing poetry...that was just mental exercise.

Brat

scout #24:

[...Poetry is usually written for yourself, and if you share it with others, that is your gift to us...]

I beg to disagree.

Poetry or any good piece of writing for that matter, should resonate with the reader. It should find a home in reader’s mind and reverberate; bring upheaval in that lake or ocean of emotions that is made up of those gray cells.

The odd times I sing in the shower. If foolishly, some day I decide to perform in public, I better make sure I have my basics right---have some talent, practice (reyaaz), musical knowledge, vocal chords, nerve and verve to perform on stage.

Poetry written for one’s own gratification should and must at least meet a certain minimum criteria before it airs in public.

I would never deflect public criticism of anything I publish by saying I wrote it only for my self. That would be cop out.


PM #23:

[...And don`t ask me to explain what that means, ok!...]
OK......whatever....:)


Shirin Ahmed #20:
[...i dare say with a lot of Grace....]
Thank you....I think you made my day:)

SameerJB #12:

Thank you.

As I told brotherm hamidm poetry is also the art of saying more with less.

Hali, the contemporary of that other influential desi ‘Sir’ was once challenged to narrate this long story in a couplet. (I am condenscing the long narration.) Prophet Abraham prayed for someone from his future family to come for salvation of his people(he must have a premonition that they would go astray?) Prophet Issa predicted his coming. Aamna gave birth to him.

Hali thought and write out this:

Hoo’iee pehloo-e-Aamna say howeeda
Du’a-e-Khalil aur naveed-e-Maseeha

tahmed321

Yaar kiyouN jhagRRa karana chahtay ho?


..........and finally...


ahmadb #18:

Thank you for the response.

[...since poetry is your passion...]

See, you have made a subtle choice when you selected the word passion. You could have used any one of the several words from yearning, mania, obsession, love, inclination, fondness, sickness, inspiration etc. But you selected that one word that you think best reflects what you want to convey.

Good writing, in any language, is almost always dependent on an impeccable choice of words, laid out, brick by brick to build that monument in thin air. Missing or extra bricks make the monument appear flawed just like in writing.

[You know the old adage: those who can, do; those who can’t teach/critique? There are always some who endlessly criticize this seemingly undue emphasis I place on choice of words in English. They forget that I use the same criteria for Urdu: the other language I know and write in.]

This is a good simple poem. I agree. But despite its simplicity, the poet has not effectively used the words to their full potential.

The words used are ambivalent not in a specific and intentional sense about whose loneliness is being addressed but perhaps unintentionally in an unskilled and uncontrolled way. Romantic touch is only alluded to, not directly or indirectly established.

You say, “The poet is perhaps talking about the withering away of the feeling of loneliness of his/her beloved (this still does not establish that the feeling of the poet has withered away).

Precisely. If words were used succinctly, the desired connotation is not that difficult to suggest here.

Look at these words from your reply .....[ I think.... But....If we assume ..... we surely can develop a link....]

In the link from passion to desire, crossing the bridges of anger and hurt a strong impression is created that unfulfilled passion leads to desire. I am ofcourse being ridiculous and subjective here:)

[...Q11: Is this a short, simple poem? My reply: It depends upon how you see it. This is a short poem, which is simple in its writing style (not in the ideas, feelings, and philosophy)...]

---smiling....I think you got the message.

(approp.) love and regards,

temporal

t-bhai #27,

i was just trying to make the guy feel better :)

sometimes positive reinforcement encourages people to write more passionately. being bombarded with criticisms might push a budding poet into the corner from which he came from.

we can`t expect the same quality of work from a seasoned poet vs. someone`s who`s starting out (which i think this poet is).

this is solely my garbled opinion, how could i even argue with a professional :)

well, i liked the poem! and i don`t care whether its has or hasn`t been approved by temporal or signed by a senator :)

temporal kar loo joo karna hai!! :)

In response to fairdinkum (Reply # 29)

Dear Fairdinkum:

Your statement: ``temporal kar loo joo karna hai!!``

My reply: I just laughed (initally)! Now, I am smiling. Thanks! I am sure, temporal is smiling too.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Hussain wrote:

and that box has been locked

and the key swallowed

yet it steals the heat from my veins

making me so cold

i know you feel that way

I think the author here is making a distinction between yearning and hopelessness, a fatalistic approach. He has come to term with the fact that from now it will ony be a memory that will keep staeling heat from blood vessels and making feel cold.

The locking of the box and key swallowed is equivalent to the impossibility of reviving the passionate relationship.

Re: Poetry

Saying more with less is a modern interpretation of an art form of creation. Poetry is actually a useful tool for memorization and that alone has evloved us into appreciating it. When there was no writing and record keeping, poetry kept the knowledge passing from generation to generation. Have you ever wonder why most myths, Homer`s work, Rig-Veda is preserved for such a long time? Because poetry is less corruptible because of rythmic qualities, memorizable and passable to a large number of people simultaneously. Any attempt to corrupt passages by few will be rejected by many others and thus the wisdom and knowledge will pass to next generation unaltered. Had Rig-Veda been in prose, it would have changed beyond recognition by now and scholars would have labelled it as ``not original``.

The rythmic qualities, the pattern and structured words are easy for mind to store in memory. No wonder, people remember whole songs, poems and ghazals for years without practicing to keep them in the memory. Same can not be said about prose. How many people do remember a word-by-word story writteen by Minto, Munshi Prem Chand or Krishan Chander? Prose is better when it comes to acquire detailed knowledge or skills because of its continuous pattern whereas poetry is better for memorizing because of its pulsed or quantized pattern with rythmic quality. Human mind is programmed to focus deeply on rythms and this has led to its use in meditation/ religion, not to speak of multi-billion dollar music industry. People can actually go into trance listening to Rig-Veda or qawwalis due to brain chemistry, attention and focus associated with rythms.