Karachi Dreams

Mr.ASIM and MISSING THE POINT EACH TIME.

``…because you are starving yoursevl on boiled egg and elaicheeyan, it is not changing the status quo of those with whom you are empathising…``

Mr. Asim Sir. For the last time, stop getting personal for absolutely no reason at all. My intention of pointing out my now ready to be puked breakfast was to convey to you that it is because I can enjoy a breakfast and not have to go scrimping, that I feel privileged. But did you try to understand that? oh no. You dear sir, are hell bent upon making me sound like a rich bych whooz dieing in her own self worth and oh so lovely deeds. My purpose of telling you about that incident with my friend was to convey that there is hope and there are good people, when u pointed out how the rich don’t care. Yes her feeding the kids did not make a difference to the 10,000 other kids who are hungry. Being the governors daughter, she takes full advantage of this position and does everything that she can and cannot to help those not as lucky. Unlike me though, she keeps her trap shut. As for my not making new clothes on eid Sir, thats my way of protesting however `immature` that might be. Like you said, u live in your fools paradise and I will in mine. Mine refuses to get all hoity toity about people who are trying to make a difference in their own stopid insignificant ways in the face of a lot of crap already. Please skip that last sentence. I`m afraid you`ll accuse me of wallowing in self pity again. But you know what Mr.Asim? There are many like you. Instead of trying to understand the point of all this banging on the keyboard, you will enjoy picking on others:

``…Anny and misguided philanthropy…``

``…Re: Anny and suicidal thoughts…``

(and you say my writing style reeks of patronizing) but rest assured. A kabillion uncles like you wouldn’t be able to make me make new clothes on eid(yes same material to pick on in the next post). Its my way of protesting and reminding myself that there is more, much more than clothes to Eid and life and the world be damned if they don’t like it.

``…But your words are your biggest enemy…``

Not so. They are my greatest buds and it is with them that I`m going to fight and overcome cynics and critics alike.

Also please hold on for a day before you post your next reply. I have a presentation due tomorrow morning that will go towards making me into the `somebody` that you wish for me to be and I will not be able to resist replying.

Reply #: 107

krashid

``…That girl did wrong to suicide...``



I agree(with your statement & not the sarcasm). Emphatically. Sir you and I are on the same side and thus arguing for no reason at all. If I appeared to be wallowing in self pity or flouting my privilege at any point, I urge you to read my posts again. If you still feel I am doing the above, then I apologize. My question (YET AGAIN) is why these values? Agreed that new clothes are a part of eid. I am reminded of the fact that it is `mustahib` to make new clothes on every Eid. But to place so much emphasis on the making of clothes (I am not referring to Eid and clothes here, just clothes as a material thing) is what I feel is not right. Take an example Sir. 40 years from today, would a young girl have committed suicide if she was not able to make new clothes? My own mother tells me that in her times as a child, when unable to make clothes due to financial constrains on eid there was none of the hysteria that overtakes my sisters, cousins and friends if they are unable to make clothes for absolutely any occasion or reason at all. Why this gaping differences in the generations? THAT is what I was and am trying to point out. Why have we, as a nation or even as humans, become so materialistic? To ridicule the young girl was never my intention. More so, I was asking why she had been driven to such despair that she committed suicide. The values that prevail don’t you think? I rest my case.

anNy

PM various posts,

I don`t feel like arguing anymore. We`re running around in circles posting painfully long messages.

As dr. shankar says, let`s agree to disagree for now.

``for now`` being the key phrase.

just don`t provoke me... :)

ANNY #104

I still did not get the point.

Do you think your values are Universal.

I love to eat at home but due to many circumstances I had to eat outside most of my young life. (To tell you in a more proving fashion I would miss dinner in Marriage to eat home cooked food).

Eid is one of a few occasions and if I remember my childhood and when I see my children, everybody is excited about Eid, new clothes, vermicelli, Eidi etc. That is not only tradition but Islamic custom also.

That girl did wrong to suicide.

She should have used less violent measures like crying etc. And many thousands of children might have cried because of lack of clothes so that some people can fill their ego by seeing them eating food given by them at some other time on Tariq Road and later boasting for kind deed.

You want to give sympathy to them only if it goes through you.

Re: Anny and misguided philanthropy

Its with some interest i have been reading you various postings. I am beginning to see that you mean well. But your words are your biggest enemy, as i indicated before. and certainly not krasid or myself. Both of us mean well and are happy that your feel strongly about the exhibitionism we happen to be caught in. By not being party to such blatant display of wealth, you do make a point. I think krashid`s point, and to a certain extent mine too, hinges on the fact that , because you are starving yoursevl on boiled egg and elaicheeyan, it is not changing the status quo of those with whom you are empathising. I hope you see my point.

little poor girls with labourer fathers might continue to commit suicides while you wallow in your self pity, and feeling guilty about the amenities your father has provided for you. This si not the way forward, as i hinted before, and scout suggested.

A more practical approach is to use that ``privilege`` to become ``somebody``, a lawyer, a doctor, a professional, a socila worker, through dint of hard work, and good education, if you can afford it. All the time not losing sight of your goals. These could be numerous. Raising funds for the poorer maids within your ``locality`` so that they could possibly not have to go without new clothes, on Eid or at least once a year, would reward you much more than just starving yourself, after looking at a ``gorgeous`` young man picking the rubbish bins. Infact, you need to get rid of your immaturities, and starighten up to become a confident young woman, possibly much differnt from your colleagues, who might be just dreaming about meeting prince charming and heading off to the sunset. Or hoping that daddy finds one. I am not saying its not good to dream, but one must dream big.

A lot of sensible pakistani girls are coerced into marrying too early, for the sake of ``accah ristah nika jaeey ga``. Its an oxymoron, sensible girls who could not make the biggest decision of their lives themselves, I agree. But family pressures can be a big factor. So if you have eyes set on making a change in what you see wround yourself, become ``somebody``.

Let me rephrase, you depriving off yoursefl off new dresses, and food is not changing an iota in the lives of the average little girl whose father can not afford a new set of clothes for his babay girl. We all live in our fool`s paradise. I am happy in mine, and i will let you be happy in yours.

Sincerely,

Asim

Re: sarwari #88

``Karachi is the coolest city in the world!``

Obviously you have never been to Timbuctu. A close second is of course my Lahore.

Asim

Reply # 103

Mr.Krashid Sir. May you read with interest and agony this post as much as u did the other. I refuse to go into any more personal details to prove my point for that’s quite apparently not getting the point through.

You say: ``I am already convinced that your father is a big shot``

With apologies at having to destroy your illusions Sir, he`s anything but. He is a good man who has instilled in all his children (well, almost all) the annoying values of truth, simplicity and goodness. I say annoying because in this place and this time, wanting to stop when the light is red, causes people to die of laughter. And it is due to what I have been taught that I consider myself privileged. At the risk of sounding unbelievably sappy ( cheezy corny whatever) might I tell you why I call myself that. Its because we have had drilled in us the simple fact that because we have food to eat at every meal and a house that we call our own- we are privileged. How many people out there can say the same? There are a kabillion people out there who have to eat out of kachra kundis. Just today before I came home and saw your message, I saw this gorgeous looking young man eating the peels of a rotten banana at itwaar bazaar (buss no more stories). I came home and had a boiled egg with ilaiche wali chai. You get? So by being told since the very beginning that we are very very privileged, unlike so many, my siblings and I take none of what we have for granted. (Even if that might not be a lot on certain occasions, I must again disappoint you) And if all this still makes you feel I`m a big shot with no etiquette`s, so be it. But might I mention here that it is the same `big shot father` who also inculcated in me the manners that prevent me from saying what I so badly wish to right now; that elders must be respected at any cost. Even those who refuse to see the point and pick out lil bits just for the heck of picking at me? Annoying values, like I said.

This entire discussion is getting way to personal now. My question was,

``Are the values of clothes and other material things what we want to prevail in our society?`` Well actually they already do, in the rich as well as the poor- but is there nothing that can be done about it? I remember reading in the Dawns Ed-op pages a few months ago some man who was lamenting the same thing. What is wrong with us as a nation? There was a time when obnoxious looking Pajeros were a thing to be looked down upon. Today the man riding one is automatically treated with respect and reverence. ``Why? Will somebody please tell me what went wrong with us?``

anNy

P.S= Scout Reply#100

``I`m sorry to barge into your talks with Asim, but I just want you to know that your heart is in the right place``

And so is my kidney.

ANNY #97

I read with interest and agony your whole post.

It is a good idea to keep your wrath to your own people.

Don`t try to put daggers in the heart of poor.

Their small happiness and small sadness are too big for them. Leave it like that.

And don`t mention too much. I am already convinced that your father is a big shot. So what. You don`t even have the basic etiquettes.

Blaming the poor girl for suicide.

I will urge you to donate more and write much more about it. So every body can appreciate your TENDER heart.

Chowk Staff,

I am wondering whether the Press Room is on a vacation, have they personally gone to India to provide aid or do they not think that the Earthquake was a serious issue and doesn`t deserver to be written about?

In the past you`ve been more thatn eager to discuss even issues like `Japanese Premier Resigns` and `Economic Development Conference at MIT `.....what`s happened now?

further to my last post to scout...

scout, something you said in your last post should bring out exactly what it is I constantly protest (you say `bash`) on this site. You

wrote...

``To tell you the truth, I personally don`t care what the Prophet did or did not do, and I would never defend something I`d rather not. Who knows what happened hundreds of years ago, and what we know is heresay. I`m talking about TODAY, not yesterday, the days of prophets and Noah`s arks, and other interesting tales. Let`s talk about TODAY`s Islam and TODAY`s Muslims, and let`s talk about TODAY`s religion. Forget the past. Moses, Jesus, whatever.... ``

And just yesterday YOU were attacking me for

I`d like to raise my glass to that suggestion (noting, however, how you neglect to add the big M`s name.. but never mind, I can understand where you`re coming from).

BUt seriously, while I wouldn`t want to forget it ALL (ther are valuable lessons on life in those traditions, after all), I should point out that you consitiute about .00001% of Muslims who feel that way. For the vast, vast, majority of Muslims

, what the Prophet said and did IS OF COMPLETE RELEVANCE to their present-day life. If not what the Prophet said and did, then certainly what the Quran teaches.

Given your own thoughts on the matter, I find it difficult to imagine how or why you get so upset when others question a religion.

rgds,

PM

Anny #97,

I`m sorry to barge into your talks with Asim, but I just want you to know that your heart is in the right place. It`s nice seeing young Pakistanis like yourself and your friend showing some compassion to less fortunate people.

However, I`d also like to say, that your good intentions and your friend`s (the one playing with the little kids), would be better off directed at volunteer efforts at local orphanages, schools, hospitals etc.. And while you`re at that threshold, it would be better for young people like yourself and your friend to encourage their rich fathers and relatives to contribute their wealth to help build schools, hospitals, etc....

THAT my sweet fellow Pakistani, would make a huge difference to the poor than not buying a new jora for Eid.

re. scout and EVERYONE ELSE :))

I`ll keep this si short as possible (yes, it *is * getting tiresome-- not a good way to start the weekend off!)

scout, you say...

``It`s your personal prejudice if you think Islam is worse than other religions. I don`t think so.``

Now, either you have some serious comprehension problems or you are deliberalety twisting my words to suit your contention that I am bashing Islam.

For your benefit, I am reposting my actual words here:

PM #67: `` It is born of, and feeds, the belief, that Muslims, or Islam, could never be worse of than anyone else on a given matter. And that is

exactly what you propose, don`t you, in your great attempt to equalize.``

Now, if you an`t see a difference in what I said and what you claim I said, well.. three is no use debating any further.

``But I do think Muslims in general are holing themselves up into a big mess these days. Religion is what people make of it.``

Yeah, and no need to ask why this might be so, right? Like tahmed put it: ``All this has NOTHING to do with Islam.``

``Islam is no different in inherent philosophy than

Christianity, Judaism. One Ultimate God, etc. etc. right? Then why not equalize the religions?``

Islam is actually quite different from either Christianity or orthodox Judaism(though much closet to Judiasm. A common belief in One God counts for very little. Read Urstruly`s last post to tahmed on the ``Interst-Free banking`` board.

`` Why hold one in contempt and dismiss the others?``

Hold one in contempt???? Your insecurities are REALLY getting the better of your judgement. But we shan`t get into that now...

``If you want to criticize Muslims, go ahead, criticize the fundamentalist idiots, Mullahs out there. But for you to attack Muslims just for speaking out against Islam bashing is unfair.``

First, I don`t ``ATTACK`` Muslims for speaking out against Islam bashing. I merely question them. There`s a difference, y`know? Secondly, I choose t o criticize the religion (be it Islam or whatever) becasue, IMO, they are at least partly responsible for the way their adherents turn out. You are entitled to your own opinion on where blame must be laid.

`` And don`t you think that Muslims are sensationalized as terrorists in the Western media as well? Where is your condemnation of this media now? How does it feel to be labeled? Not very good. So think twice before labeling Muslims and Islam.``

Please tell me wher I have ever upheld the media images of Islam terrorism.

...

More later,

gotta go now...

by the way.. I will not be addressing the child-sex issue. It has been debated ad infinitum on the board I mentioned. If you care, to go there and post your questions after reading the article/interacts.

so long...

PM

PS. IMO = In my opinion.

Re: sac #90

``BTW there are some nice Bushras and Razias out there. I swear!!``

Its a little too late for ``finding`` them in my case, for i have met my match. and thankfully she loves me more than God. Or so she would have me believe. Women can be so devious sometimes, just like men... hehehe

May your above words motivate you to find the value of perfection!

Re: Rsaxena

Yes, you are right, i have been in a ajolly good mood. i do so love the rainy season in california. Everything gets washed by the acid rains here,including one`s cynicism; thereby forcing one to be thankful for being just alive to see the sheer beauty within this world.

BTW did you hear of this loser who is suing people for use of the sad face sign in emails, as the sad face sign was apprently registered by this fellow back in 1998. He is asking about 7 million people, who used sad face in their emails, to write an aplogy to him, stating,..``I will not use sad face sign again, as it is a copyright infringement to Mr So and So`` .

so dont go around making :-( sign, another reason to become jovial and to embrace life to the full.

Sincerely,

Asim

Reply #: 86 Asim Hayat

``…Eid is a children`s delight, they are the ones who love to get all dressed up, and get eeeidee, and go out to celebrate or to eat sweetmeats. Why do u want to take that right away from them…``

Good Lord no! Its my family and friends with their utter wastage on Eid that I`d like to take Eid away from.

``…your explanation of how it is insignificant for your to not have new clothes on Eid, is not a valid argument to counter the poor little girl`s plight…``

Nope. Its `significant` for me to not make clothes on Eid Sir not insignificant. By wearing what I do when we have visitors over or when we ourselves go visiting, I present my lil theory to anyone that`ll listen. Some roll their eyes dipping the prawns on a toothpick in tartar sauce while others tussle my hair and tell my poor tormented parents how wonderfully spirited I am. Some give me an extra grand for Eidhi, stifling their consciences. And then there are those who listen to what I say with a faraway thoughtful look in their eyes. It is these people that I make a difference to. If my `juvenile way` of protesting effects even one person- not making new clothes for Eid has made all the difference in my books.

You tell me I am privileged. Yes I am. My father is not a laborer to answer your question. It is with the privilege that I am burdened with that I will inshaAllah bring a difference.

But that`s really not the point here. What I was trying to say was what Mr.Tahmed says in his post reply #85:

``…the fact that we were taught things like the importance of truth and simplicity, not that of showing off. I have noticed this gap in value systems among Pakistanis after that as well - in the US, I see people for whom the main topic is their mercedes and shopping or politics…``

It is these values that I called your attention to in the first and second post. Why such values? What went wrong? Why clothes? Can Eid not be an occasion to love, smile and give(those of us who can that is)?

``…That is why Islam, asks the affluent and the rich to share their blessings with the poor. But do the rich even acknowledge the poor. save for the fitrana, and that too at the shraee rate of Rs 175 per person, people pay that and think they are absolved of any further contribution…``

Let me recount another story for you (I have so many:] )It was on the 17th of Ramzan that I and a bunch of friends were looking around at the shops at `The Point`` after a most expensive and horribly done, flat Iftaree at a most obnoxious place TGIF. Walking towards our cars with Mehendi and Chooorian, munching on Pringles and high on our `privilege` nobody paid much attention to the lil Afghan boys clamoring after the guys in the lot to buy us wilted flowers. We sat in the car when all of a sudden someone realized a friend was missing. Upon looking all over the place, we found her sitting on a lil pavement in the parking lot yakking away with a whole bunch of them 12 and 13 year old boys like her Dad owned the bloody footpath. Completely at ease with her, the boys were all munching on Oreo`s and drinking Frooto while she demonstrated how to make a slingshot with a rubberband. When she saw us coming towards her, she motioned with her eyes for us to stay at a distance. Probably didn`t want to break the link she had established with the children were they to see us with what we stand for written all over us. I`m positively dieing here to tell you whose daughter she is and make my point right on target but that would be a gross invasion of her privacy.

Now you may say that they kids probably had an upset tummy for the next 2 weeks after those rich biscuits or that she did her good deed for the year and calmed her conscience. But that wouldn`t be the point yet again. The privileged (a very small percentage I agree) do do their bit, albeit sometimes. But the sensitivity shown that day by my friend shook up all of us that were present there. If nothing else, she made 11 carefree brats think about things they hadn`t for a long long time.

``…Once again, let me admit, you are not catty and stupid, just a bit reckless with words…``

Jazbatee is the word they all use:0)

much love,

anNy

To all readers besides PM:

PLEASE do not read the following verbose post, because it will be torturous to you unless you`re devastatingly interested in PM and my weird discussions.

PM #67, `` It is born of, and feeds, the belief, that Muslims, or Islam, could never be worse of than anyone else on a given matter. And that is

exactly what you propose, don`t you, in your great attempt to equalize.``

It`s your personal prejudice if you think Islam is worse than other religions. I don`t think so. But I do think Muslims in general are holing themselves up into a big mess these days. Religion is what people make of it. Islam is no different in inherent philosophy than Christianity, Judaism. One Ultimate God, etc. etc. right? Then why not equalize the religions?

Why hold one in contempt and dismiss the others?

If you want to criticize Muslims, go ahead, criticize the fundamentalist idiots, Mullahs out there. But for you to attack Muslims just for speaking out against Islam bashing is unfair.

``Which is not to say that I would not point out that the (Western) public perception of Catholic priests as `molestors` is, IMO, little more than the success of sensationalism in the Western media when it comes to sex.``

And don`t you think that Muslims are sensationalized as terrorists in the Western media as well? Where is your condemnation of this media now? How does it feel to be labeled? Not very good. So think twice before labeling Muslims and Islam.

``I have on other occassions, tried to defend the Prophet`s marriage to a pre-teen as something that has to be seen in the context of the times. Was that an exhibition of insecurity too, rather than an effort to correct erroneuous perceptions?``

To tell you the truth, I personally don`t care what the Prophet did or did not do, and I would never defend something I`d rather not. Who knows what happened hundreds of years ago, and what we know is heresay. I`m talking about TODAY, not yesterday, the days of prophets and Noah`s arks, and other interesting tales. Let`s talk about TODAY`s Islam and TODAY`s Muslims, and let`s talk about TODAY`s religion. Forget the past. Moses, Jesus, whatever....

``My dear scout... go ahead, point out all the wrong in Christianity. ``

What`s the purpose? Why make religion into such a big issue? I`d rather see the right in religion, than the wrong. Once again, it`s not about concepts, the concept of Christianity is harmless, it`s about people, and the people who misuse religion.

`` As far as psychological maturity goes, I`m sure you can make the judgement yourself, comparing the way adolecents thought back when you & I were

one and the way they do now. ``

You`re confusing psychological maturity with knowledge of the birds and the bees. Kids these days know more about sex than I ever did in my adolescence. But do they know the psychology behind it? Do they have the experience to know what is right and wrong? True psychological maturity comes with age, and adolescents aren`t mature in those terms, no matter how knowledgeable they may be.

``So I just don`t buy it when folks say that `fear and confusion` on the part of adolescents drives them into sexual relationships.``

It`s fear, confusion, and not knowing what`s right and what`s wrong. I`ve never read about any case in which adolescents were very happy and satisfied about their sexual relations with older men (priests in this case). Most of them grew up to be psychologically affected in some negative manner. I think you`re making light of a terribly serious situation. Consider yourself a father for a second, and consider your own son has just been molested by some Priest. What would you do?

``I am saying that the `kid` (a nice word to use to emphasize `innocence`) need not be confused to enter into a physical relationship with an adult.. clergy or otherwise. You find that disturbing? well, it`s ok... your parents probably found the idea that you wanted to date that sixten yo in high school equally disturbing :). ``

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE don`t compare sexual relationships with minors to the daily woes of teenagers. An adult has much more experience with the trials and tribulations of life to make judgements for him/herself, a kid doesn`t.

And if an adult does enter into a relationship with a kid, he/she is taking advantage of innocence. I can`t believe I`m arguing this point with you.

``What I am REALLY saying is that such incidents need not be tarred with the same brush as those involving violence and force.``

Excuse meeeeeeeee? I think such incidents are all equally tarred, violence or no violence. Sexual abuse is physical, it IS a form of violence. A kid who suffers through such anguish is left disturbed, whether the violater uses physical force or mental force. Hey this isn`t rocket science you know?

``Most cultures in the past (read any sociology/anthropolgy lately) did NOT know that 14-16 yo were incapable of making decisions about

their sexuality. ``

FORGET The past! Circumstances in the past were different than they are now. Do you want to go back to hunting and gathering? Wake up, things have changed. Kids are kids now, not young adults, thank God.

Writing this long post has made me feel quite pukey. I feel sorry for whoever is reading it besides you. I know I didn`t address all of your arguments, but I only have two hands, which get tired after a long day of work.

PS: What the heck does IMO mean?

Asim Hayat #81

Zoo Ma`ani.

I inntend to do nothing because I already know it will not happen.

But if the message gets across that is enough.

re. Asim Hayat:

``More so, because i fell scout did raise some valid arguments against your scout-bashing ones earlier. The trouble being that you failed to acknowledge those,``

I believe I successfully rebutted, not just acknowledged.

``..and once again wrote an exitensial piece primarily throwing in old arguments clothed in new assertions``

So?? Would you rather I went rhetorical and hysterical like scout?

btw, since we`re back in puerile mode, what the heck is `exitensial` anyway? :)