Eathquake Hits India And Pakistan

Partners in spirit, partners in fact

By William Jefferson Clinton

Over the past eight years, I had the privilege of traveling to nearly 100 nations around the world on behalf of the United States of America. There are few trips that meant as much to me than the journey I took last year to India. This week, I will return to India.

When you think about how you`d like the world to look in 20 years - in Africa, in Asia, in Latin America, even in the Middle East - it`s hard to imagine how we could build the future we want without a partnership between the world`s two greatest democracies. After all, India and America are natural allies, each conceived in liberty, each finding strength in diversity, each seeing in the other a reflection of its own aspirations for a more humane and just world. But even though our democratic ideals gave us a common starting point, and our dreams of peace and prosperity gave us a common destination, for too long there was too little common ground between us.

I came to India last year with the hope that my visit would help the American people to see a new India and to better understand this proud nation that has given so many gifts to the world. In turn, I hoped that my visit would help India to better understand America. I believed that listening to one another, we could lay the foundation for a true partnership between our two nations based on mutual respect and common endeavour. I was heartened to see that following that many Indians now believe that a new day has dawned between us.

Of all the displays of grace that I saw on that trip last year, none compare to the overwhelming response of the Indian people to the victims and families of the devastating earthquake in Gujarat. Over the past two months, the tireless efforts of all those involved in the relief effort have proven that the worst natural disaster in Independent India`s history has brought out the best in its people.

But as news of the tragedy fades from world headlines, the urgency of the work still to be done must not. That is why I am returning to India -- to tour the affected areas, to meet with families and relief agencies, and to bring new attention to the challenge of reconstruction that remains.

As India knows all too well, there is much to be done. The numbers alone numb the senses -- more than 20,000 dead, 1.7 million injured, one million homeless. More than 1,200 schools were destroyed. More than one million homes must be repaired or rebuilt. For all the work that has been completed, damage estimates still reach above 350 billion rupees. And there is no way of accounting for livelihoods lost and lives disrupted.

Nothing can erase the devastating loss of the earthquake. Perhaps the best way to honor those who were lost in this terrible tragedy is work with the survivors to create a better future.

One positive development over the past two months is that the tragedy in Gujarat has given impetus to the creation of a new organization in America called the American India Foundation. This is a group of distinguished Indian-Americans who have contributed a great deal to our country, and who want to deepen their engagement with India to help India realise its vision for the 21st Century. This week, more than 20 distinguished members of this Foundation will tour Gujarat with me.

We hope to work with the people of this region to achieve their vision of a new Gujarat -- to work with government agencies, non-governmental organizations (NGO`s), and concerned Indians not just to build Gujarat back, but to build it better. In the short term, we hope to work with local officials in any way they need us to provide relief to meet basic needs and help Gujarat get back on its feet, be it rebuilding schools and providing teachers; repairing hospitals and providing doctors; or empowering people to reopen businesses by making credit available.

In the long-term, we want to be a resource to the people of Gujarat as they work toward their dream of bringing this region and its people into the 21st Century: by wiring schools for the Internet and other tools of the new economy; by bringing the next life-saving devices into hospitals and health centers; by using new technology to help local craftsmen market their products across India and across the world; by including local villagers in the planning process to avoid the well-intentioned but widely acknowledged mistakes of Latur and construct new buildings designed not only to withstand future earthquakes, but to meet the needs of local citizens. For centuries, the vision of the Indian people helped change the world. That same vision is at work in villages across the region today, and we will be honored to be a part of it.

While we pray that no future disasters will visit India, we know that nature has not been so kind. As many in Parliament have expressed, we share the hope that our common efforts to rebuild Gujarat will serve as a model for future efforts, particularly as Parliament works toward establishing a federal emergency management agency for India. This is intended to help the people of India endure everything from tornadoes to floods to hurricanes and emerge, in the end, even stronger.

All of this work will not be completed quickly. But the partnership I spoke of last year between the people of the United States and the people of India is not subject to time limits or deadlines. This is how partners in spirit become partners in fact. I pledge to do all I can to help make that goal a reality.

(Former US President Bill Clinton wrote this article exclusively for The Times of India.)

For Kabuliwala:

* * *

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!

Dear Sangat,

Please find this report on the Gujarat situation from the Sikh involvement

and support. This report has been obtained from the Guru Gobind Singh Study

Circle in Mumbai.



Contribution by Sikh Organizations to the Earth Quake Victims in Gujarat,

India.



As one enters Bachau from the Ahmedabad side, the first banner proclaims

``Guru Ka Langar``, the legendary community kitchen of the Sikhs. Like others

from all over India, this community is also contributing its mite towards

the relief operations for the earthquake affected. The highway at Bhachau

is overcrowded with relief camps set-up by various organizations.

All types of materials, from rations, to medicines to drinking water are

available in plenty. Whereas sending contributions, or at the most

distributing it to major town like Bachau, Bhuj and Anjar satisfies most

social organizations, the Sikhs have taken it upon themselves to venture

into remote and inaccessible areas ignored by others. The Langar run by

Sikh organizations at various locations through out Kutch is a boon, even

to other voluntary organizations.

Bhuj Gurudwara, which itself is extensively damaged, serves Langar not only

to the local homeless, but also about 200 children of the neighboring

orphanage, families of Police and Air Force personnel. Volunteers from

various organizations working at Bhuj have also benefited from this

facility.

Besides running 24 hours langar services, Sikh organizations from all over

India have come together to help their brethren in Gujarat in their hour of

need. After all, the House of Guru Nanak has always strived to serve all

humanity, without any consideration towards caste or creed. Bhai Kanhiya, a

legendary Sikh social worker was known to provide drinking water and

first-aid even to the injured enemy solders. Today, his followers are

carrying out his good work by providing support and succor to the neglected

Dalits and Muslims of the border area of Kutch.

In fact the Sikh organizations have carried out surveys and have asked for

areas which no one is interested in serving. They prefer to serve the

economically weaker and the backward sections of Society. A pleasant

surprise is the well coordinated effort made by diverse bodies having a

common aim. Organizations like Bhai Kanhiya International, Mumbai; Bhuj

Gurudwara Committee; Bir Khalsa Dal, Mumbai; Dashmesh Sevak Jatha, Mumbai;

Delhi Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee; Gandhidham Gurudwara Committee;

Gurmat Missionary College, Mumbai; Guru Gobind Singh Study Circle,

Maharashtra; Malad Gurudwara Committee, Mumbai; Nishkam Sikh Welfare

Council, Delhi; Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Mumbai; etc. are working together to

live up to the

ideals of Sikhism.

In all, over 350 volunteers from all over India have arrived with more than

50 truckloads of relief material, including food grains, medicines, items

of daily requirements, warm blankets and tents. Each organization has taken

upon itself to work in a different area. Yet, they are all networked

together and have achieved a rare level of interaction, ensuring that the

people of the region get the maximum benefit. Relief camps are set-up only

after carrying out a proper survey and ensuring that there is no duplicity

of efforts. For example, the Gandhidham Gurudwara, besides running the

standard Langar for 5000 people, has also set-up a free STD(Standard Trunk

Dialling) (a payphone) center. This round-the-clock facility is available

to everyone. Doctors from Nishkam Sikh Welfare Council have set-up a

Medical camp in the interior of Khavda, about 100 kms from

Bhuj. They are treating over 100 patients everyday, providing relief to a

population of about 20,000 people. These people have so far been

deprived of even the most basic medical facilities and had relied on

doctors in Bhuj or Khavda. In fact, most of the patients at the medical

camp are not quake-effected, but people with chronic problems, ranging from

knee pain for the past 6 years to pain for the last 12-13 years.

Along with the Medical camp, volunteers of Guru Gobind Singh Study Circle,

Maharashtra and Gurmat Missionary College, Mumbai have set-up a ration

distribution center. They have set-up a very systematic distribution

mechanism, which ensures that every family in the area gets its fair share

of material. Within 3 days, they have managed to cover a population of over

14,000 people. The local people are very satisfied with their efforts and

are cooperating fully, even participating in the distribution process. Even

the Bhuj Collector`s office has adopted their system of distribution

through community leaders. The local police also do not have any hesitation

in guiding the needy to this camp. In fact, the area under this camp has

steadily increased from about 10 villages to over 15 villages. Now, they

intend to set-up another camp about 25 kms further, so that they can cover

more villages. Besides distributing the material, volunteers travel deep

into the interior and personally survey the villages to ensure equal

distribution and to identify the needs of the people.

On the other hand, Dashmesh Sevak Jatha has opted to work in the Mothi

Cherai area of Bhachau. Here, more than rations, the villagers need help in

clearing the debris and disposing off the dead. From their base camp in

Mothi Cherai, these volunteers have also provided rations to about 15-20

far-flung hamlets, which are inaccessible. The innovative youth of the

community have used all types of conveyance ranging from tempos,

tractor-trolleys to army jeeps and even the local ``Chakdha``, a 3-wheeler

vehicle based on the bullet motorcycle. They have quickly learned to drive

these sturdy contraptions and are seen moving about from one cluster of

houses to another, providing items of daily necessity and enquiring about

any other requirements. With their tireless work and humble approach, they

have endeared themselves to the villagers, even though language is a

barrier. The local people have so much faith on these volunteers that they

even request them to retrieve their jewelry, cash and important documents.

These assets are the very last hope of survival for these once-rich

villagers. The grateful villagers have even handed over retrieved

vehicles to the volunteers for their use. Whereas other relief committees

have distributed material for tents and left, it is these Sikh volunteers

who are helping the villagers to erect the tents. The dedicated and sincere

effort of these volunteers has impressed other organizations also. Bharat

Petroleum and Bank of Punjab, who had initially planned to distribute the

relief material personally, have gladly handed over their stock to these

bodies, with the full confidence that it will reach the truly deserving.

Besides the Sikh bodies, many Sikh individuals from the area are also

putting their whole-hearted efforts to help the needy and the downtrodden.

Prominent amongst these are Dr. Charanjit Singh Ajwani of Ankleshwar, whose

residence has been converting into an operations office and who is

co-ordinating the communication between the various filed units and their

respective offices. Baba Jassa Singh of Bharuch has also moved into Bhuj

with his team of volunteers. Mrs. Brar, Wife of Gujrat IGP, Mr. Brar is

tirelessly moving through out the region, helping the relief committees to

identify areas where they can work and guiding them about the type of

relief required in each area. The collectors of Bhuj and Bhachau are also

satisfied with the genuine and tireless effort but in by these bodies. They

do not hesitate to sanction any relief material required by them, knowing

fully well that there is no question of any misuse.

Currently, 2 JVCs (village council areas) have been allotted to the relief

team at Mothi Cherai. The Nishkam Medical camp and distribution centre is

running from a Police outpost. Now that most organizations are planning to

move out, the Sikhs are looking towards a more meaningful and long-term

contribution to the development of the area. Based on its experience in

running the medical camp, Nishkam is planning to set-up a full-fledged

dispensary near-about Khavda.

Sri Guru Singh Sabha is evaluating its options regarding rehabilitating the

Sikhs of Gandhidham. Dashesh Seva Jatha also plans to involve itself in the

reconstruction of the houses. No matter in what way they contribute, the

dedicated and self-less service of the Sikhs is bound to leave a lasting

impression upon the people of Kutch.



#2

I came to know from various sources that many Gurdwaras and Sikh

institutions in United States are collecting funds to help the earthquake

victims in Gujrat. May I suggest channeling these funds through two of our

Gurdwaras in Ahmedabad, who have taken a leadership role in providing food,

clothing and shelter to the victims.The names, addresses and phone numbers

of these Gurdwaras are given below:

Singh Sabha Gurdwara

Dhudheshwar Road

Ahmedabad.

011-91-79-562 5022

Contact Person: Kartar Singh

Gobinddham Gurdwara

Thaltej Char Rasta

Surkhej - Gandhinagar Hwy.

Ahmedabad 380054

011-91-79- 685 2069

Contact Person: Jagjit Singh

Punjab is sending on an average 30 to 40 trucks full of grain, clothiers,

blankets, tents etc. to Ahmedabad to help the local Gurdwaras, who are

actively involved in the rescue mission. All these necessities of life are

then taken to Bhuj and nearby villages. Approximately 80% of Bhuj area is

destroyed by earthquake. Gurdwara in Bhuj about which I mentioned in my

previous posting was being run by the Military. Its latest status is being

inquired and we are waiting for an update.

With best wishes for the Charhdi Kala of Khalsa Panth,

In the service of Guru Panth

Kuldeep Singh

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

SIKHNET NOTE:

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

If you live in the US or Canada you can also send contributions for

earthquake victims to:

``Sikh Dharma Gujarat Earthquake Relief Fund``

Mail contributions to:

Sikhnet - P.O. Box 249, Santa Cruz, NM. 87567, U.S.A.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This service has been provided to you as a courtesy of SIKHNET.

Visit Sikhnet on the Internet

(This is without the typos--I hope)

rsridhar:#402

Thanks for your clarification.

In spite of what logic is used to justify it,the human imagination surpasses all temporal forms.

Is it not that we are able to remember our loved ones even without the photographs or idols? Do we not think about them and phone or write to them?

The ones who are no longer with us we still have fond memories of them deep within our hearts.

Have you wondered that the moment we acquire temporal/material possession of something we somehow value it less? Case in point:we remember & savour a movie & the joyful experience of revisiting it in our memories but the moment we acquire a copy of it we do not cherish it that much.

You must be aware of a lot of people from agra who have never visited the Taj Mahal.How about meeting one of our cherished hero in person & then going through the torment of wishing that the image in the mind was better than the real thing.Has not a book always turned out to be better than the movie?

To provide solace to those who find comfort in whatever form of ritual is indeed one of the great power of belief.I certainly would never even suggest to counter it,let alone criticise.

At the same time it is also very gratifying & fullfilling (& therefore comforting) to try to catch the essence of the faith,without the patina of Time & crust of superstition---only if one is blessed to do so.

Many are called,few are chosen.

I wish you well.

``Allah agar taufeeque na dey,insaan kay buss ka kaam naheeN

Faizaan e mohabbat aam sahee,irfaan e mohabbat aam naheeN.``

tr:If Allah does not bestow it(upon someone),it is not within human capacity.

The blessings of Love might be widespread,to be a gnostic of it is not.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

__________________________________________________

rsridhar:#402

Thanks for your clarification.

In spite of what logic is used to justify it,the human imagination surpasses all temporal forms.

Is it not that we are able to remember our loved ones even without the photographs or idols? Do we think about them and phone or write to them?

The ones who are no longer with us we still have fond memories of them deep within our hearts.

Have you wondered that the moment we acquire temporal/material possession of something we somehow value it less? Case in point:we remember & savour a movie & the joyful experience of revisiting it in our memories but the moment we acquire a copy of it we do not cherish it that much.

You must be aware of a lot of people from agra who have never visited the Taj Mahal.How about meeting one of our cherished hero in person & then going through the torment of wishing that the image in the mind was better than the real thing.Has not a book always turned out to be better than the movie?

To provide solace to those who find comfort in whatever form of ritual is indeed one of the great power of belief.I certainly would never even suggest to counter it,let alone criticise.

At the same time it is also very gratifying & fullfilling (& therefore comforting) to try to catch the essence of the faith,without the patina of Time & crust of superstition---only if one is blessed to do so.

Many are called,few are chosen.

I wish you well.

``Allah agar taufeeque na dey,insaan kay buss ka kaam naheeN

Faizaan e mohabbat aam ahee,irfaan e mohabbat aam naheeN.``

tr:If Allah does not bestow it(upon someone),it is not within human capacity.

The blessings of Love might be widespread,to be a gnostic of it is not.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

__________________________________________________

Re: Firangi_Kush,# 396

I agree with you about Hindus worshipping one God. Hinduism is actually a monotheistic religion.

Rig Veda says and i quote ``Ekam tat;Vipra bahuna vadanti`` meaning ``That (God) is one;different people call It by different names``. Upanishad says`` sarvam khalvidam brahmam`` meaning ``everything is Brahman`` (or the supreme spirit;not to be confused with Brahmin which is a caste). The same truth has been repeated again and again by various prophets,sages and seers. Why do hindus worship idols and so many gods then? The answer to that may be in Patanjali`s Yogasutra. In that spiritual classic written more than 2000 years ago in Sanskrit, Patanjali describes a scientific way of attaining God. In describing various steps of Ashtanga Yoga (or the eightfold yoga),one of steps is Dhyana or concentration. But concentrate on what? You cannot concentrate on a vaccum. Image of statues is what most hindus concentrate on, be it in a temple or while meditating in seclusion. Sages who have seen God (people like Ramakrishna Paramhamsa) have said that at some point when one has advanced far into this technique,the image of the idol is what the worshipper sees in every being. Following this,even this image disappears and all that remains is the formless Absolute Spirit (or what we call as God). Thus for most common folks and even for many sages, worshipping the image becomes the common starting point. Since there is no dearth of images, one can choose what one is comfortable with or attracted to. These images each have their own stories and legends attached to them. People believe in these legends. In the end it is all faith that matters.

rsridhar

This article shows that construction practices that have been perfected over centuries withstood the test of time and the earthquake:

FEATURE-Mud huts stand firm amid killer Indian quake ruins

By Suresh Seshadri

NANATUNDA NAVAVAAS, India, Feb 15 (Reuters) - Mohammed Yusuf proudly points to a cluster of tiny mud huts standing erect in a village in the quake-ravaged western Indian state of Gujarat.

Then he gestures to a pile of rubble, the only remains of a cement-and-concrete dwelling which was once a symbol of upward mobility in his tiny tribal village of Nanatunda Navavaas in Gujarat`s arid marshland.

No longer.

``All the 84 bhungas (mud homes) in our village are still standing strong, while these new pucca (permanent) houses that a few amongst us had built just crumbled in the quake,`` Yusuf, the village headman, says.

The monster earthquake that ripped through the region in January killed upwards of 30,000 people in the coastal state.

Only a handful of families in the poor village of predominantly Muslim Samma tribals had permanent concrete homes in a landscape dotted with basic conical huts made of mud, twigs and dried grass.

The 1,200-odd Samma tribals near Pakistan in the Kutch region, which bore the brunt of the January 26 earthquake, now say they are glad they did not switch to modern homes.

PROVED STURDIER

They say their traditional homes based on centuries of indigenous knowledge gleaned from surviving in the quake-prone region have proved to be much sturdier than the new brick-and-cement constructions.

Villagers in Nanatunda Navavaas, 75 km (47 miles) north of the town of Bhuj which suffered huge damage in the quake, say they got off lightly only because of their traditional mud homes.

``Most of us in our tribe were lucky and except for the three who were taken by the Maker,`` says Mitta Lakhmir, the eldest son in a family of seven and a father of five children.

Three people from the village, including an old man and two children, were killed in the quake which struck with terrifying intensity on the morning of January 26 -- India`s Republic Day.

Lakhmir pointed out a few minor cracks that surfaced in the baked mud walls of his traditional home after the quake which clocked 7.7 on the Richter scale.

``Nothing happened in here, we just felt the world around us wobble and spin, but the roof made of twigs just stayed intact,`` he said, pointing to the interior of the dark, cool hut.

LIFE EASIER FOR TRIBALS

The tribals, whose language and cheerful loose cotton clothes and headgear suggest a racial and cultural affinity to the Sindhis across the border in Pakistan, farm coarse millets during the June-September monsoon and work as labourers the rest of the year.

Lakhmir said people in the neighbouring, mainly Hindu, settlement of Khavda had not been as fortunate because most of them were living in concrete dwellings.

``The toll (of dead and injured) there was higher but we were thankfully able to quickly help them by giving them blankets and other warm clothing,`` Lakhmir says.

Flawed design, poor construction material, flouting of building codes and lack of simple quake-proofing measures resulted in a death toll far higher than it should have been in Gujarat, quake experts say.

While many quake victims in Gujarat are still grappling with the process of rebuilding their lives, post-quake life has been much easier for the Samma tribals.

Children played without a care as a group of colourfully dressed women were busy cooking lunch near Yusuf`s hut.

About 75 students belonging to the village`s only Madarsa or Muslim religious school are back to studying in makeshift tents after their school building collapsed in the quake.

``The army gave us 200 feet of tarpaulin sheet and we erected this makeshift Madarsa five days ago so my students can get back to their study of the scriptures,`` religious preacher Abdul Aziz shouted over the metronomic chanting of Koranic verses.

Harimau #395

To tell you the truth.

You are falling into a trap.

Farangi-Kush name itself means.(Killers of Foreigners)

They first call you by good names and then tell you to give the highest award. Not even prophets are buried in Kaaba, so you can understand the sacredness of that place and pride of being buried there.

Once you fall in his trap. He will invite you to dinner to discuss the ways and means of achieving the aim of burial in Kaaba. Also as a matter of religious secularism he will invite you to drink. Since he is a Muslim, he will not drink and will be sobre. When you are fully drunk, he will do what I have alluded to before. Mar Kar Gaarh Dena.

Since I have found a coattail like pious Salim the BATHER in your person. I don`t want to loose you and start searching another Mahan Aatma.

Harimau #398

I again agree with you.

I will communicate this message to program director, who is a bearded guy. (Difficult to guess whether he is jewish or Muslim. But since he is respected for his beard, that beard must be jewish).

On cleaning guy or janitorial stuff, I am in slight disagreement with you. I not only respect the person who earns by hardwork, but if I have to earn my living by doing janitorial stuff, I will feel myself proud to earn by my hardwork.

Any way these slight disagreement on insignificant matters, is a sign of secularism and democracy to which both of us are very fond of in our own way.

Like Salim the pious, you will also find me agreeing with you on almost all matters.

And like Salim the pious, I will continue to give weight to your opinions whether you speak good of me or bad.

Ref shankar #: 391

[I made harimau your soulmate.]

Read my reply to krashid.

You two could start a group practice. He can try to train you not to worship your penis-God and you can try to cure him of his delusions of Moghul grandeur. Together, you can try to convince Barrister Amer that democracy is not haram.

Hopefully, that will keep the both of you occupied so that we don`t have to read your mouse-droppings on the Chowk.

I haven`t seen a single doctor with so much time on his hands like Shankar or krashid. I suspect they are part of the janitorial staff in some nursing home.

Krashid, in case I am wrong about your janitorial stuff, if you are doing your residency, let me tell you one thing. When your director tells you to read journals, he doesn`t mean the publications of Al Azhar University.

Ref krashid #: 394

If you study psychiatry, you can set up a group practice with that quack Shankar.

In fact, you to can psycho-analyze each other.

Not that it would do any good but at least you would be practicing quackery on each other instead of subjecting the unsuspecting population to your brand of BS.

harimau:#395

Thank you.

Hindus are NOT supposed to be idolators.If the prctice has take root then it is simply as much a deviation from the RIGHT PATH(sirat-ul-mustaqueem) as all other religions today.

The Patanjali(from vedas),The Gita,and the book Samkhaya have very explicitly emphasised the One & Only God.

[The reason I do not reproduce material from books is that those who are really interested would pursue this after getting the lead.Those who try to convince by quotations simply end up in polemics.

I stay away from discussions on religion & Islam because I have access to more learned people than those here on chowk.The ONLY times I retorted & tried to respond in the same (bad) language when my religion is under siege & attack.I NEVER initiated any ridicule.

For the same reason I stay away from ``discussions`` on Kashmir or such issues.I am as naive at that as about matters related to hi-tech or shriat/fiqhue.]

__________________________________________________

Most of the well know hindus like Tagore & his kind belonged to Brahmusamaj and strictly adhered to praying to One God only.I believe the Narang hindus(mostly from Sind & Baluchistan) are also the same.There must be others I am not aware of.

__________________________________________________

``Suntaa hooN key kaffir naheeN hindu ko samajhtaa

Hai aisaa aqueedah asar e falsfaa daani``

tr:I`ve heard the he(Iqbal) does not consider the hindu,kaafir,

Now that`s his creed,corrupted by philosophies.

(A maulvi lamenting about Iqbal`s gone astray)

P.S:I am ashamed to admit that I am not as pious a muslim as you might think or I would like to be.

But you`ve shown(& shone) the way!

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

Ref krashid #: 394

[It is my duty to warn you of consequences of desiring to be buried in Kaaba.]

I don`t think you understand the verse Farangi_Kush posted or my response.

The verse means `Honor the man who loves God, no matter what his religion is`.

It also means that he who lives according to the precepts of his religion is worthy of God`s grace, no matter that he may not worship Allah. In the final analysis, this says God doesn`t discriminate on WHO you worshipped but HOW you worshipped, affirming that there is but one God, no matter what we choose to call Him.

Farangi_Kush is an example of a pious Muslim whereas you are an example of someone with a superficial understanding of religion who mindlessly repeats what he reads in books.

Farangi_Kush will leave me alone to practice my idolatry if I leave him alone to his religion. In that sense, he is a secularist. I am not at all sure about you in this matter.

I may violently disagree with his views on women`s rights in Islam but you don`t see him taunting Hindus about sati or about the penis-God. He is only concerned about his own religion and protecting its integrity.

That is the difference that you, krashid, and a few others on Chowk might want to learn if you want amity between people of different faiths.

His references to Ba Ba Blacksheep are a call to all people to wake up to their heritage and follow it rather than mindlessly follow what we are taught: which is usually that all concepts and ideas come from the West and Asians and Africans have no contributions to make to the evolution of human thought, when the exact opposite has been true until the West colonized Asia and Africa.

Aside to Bilal Ahmad Sahib: Has it occurred to you that F_K chose his handle to convey the idea that he is opposed to foreign ideological domination? Just a thought.

Harimau #392

I agree with you again.

It is my duty to warn you of consequences of desiring to be buried in Kaaba.

harimau:#392

Exactly that IS (& more) that is meant.

On a more factual/practical level you might be happy to know that It was the ulemas/mullahs who offered and made Gandhiji to address from the ``minmbar``(pulpit)of the Jamia Mosque Delhi.

Such IMAM station is reserved for only the deserving even among the muslims.Such honour was never & since then has ever been accorded to any non-muslim.

``The way we were``

__________________________________________________

A nugget for you harimau:

Faiz Ahmad Faiz was presented with a gold-ring by one of his sikh admirers.The ring had ``ALLAH`` engraved upon it.

Someone quipped:``So now Faiz sahib,at least you got converted to Islam by a sikh``

and Faiz,the sharp wit that he was:``Not necessarily so.Some might think this as a good Sikh joke``

(apologies to sikhs,but this was told by I.K.Gujral himself)

__________________________________________________

wassalaam

Ref krashid #: 386

[Bhai Kis Ke Chakkar Mein Aa Gaye.

Bohat Marte Hain phir Gaar Dete Hain.

Is to Sharafat Ki Zaban Mein Kabah Mein Dafan Karna Kahte Hain.

Warna Kabah Mein Ghair Muslim Zinda ya Murda Ka Kia Kaam.]

Let me say one thing. A PIOUS Muslim will not falsely swear with his hand on the Quran that a kafir committed blasphemy. A person who thinks that he might financially benefit by false accusations will do it precisely because he does not truly believe in the Holy Quran.

Hence my statement that I would not mind living in an avowedly Islamic society populated by pious, God-fearing people. They may pity me for my idolatrous ways but they will leave me alone to MY piety. Wasn`t that the meaning of the verse that Farangi_Kush quoted?

The Indian subcontinent was populated by people who were afraid of lying, holding it to be a great sin. Hence you didn`t have these blasphemy issues coming up in the past. The very fact that these come up so frequently today is proof that people have no regard for their scriptures and are always looking for an angle to make money or to make converts.

RSaxena,

{{Wow, your insight is blinding. I don`t think anyone would have known all that had you not so cleverly informed us.}}

Youre welcome pal! I posted it especially for you! I have a duty to keep my best friend on Chowk informed & up to date. Also, you owe me one--I made harimau your soulmate.