Eathquake Hits India And Pakistan

From the New York Times (February 4, 2001)...

``In the days since the quake, extraordinary things have been achieved. After a chaotic 72 hours, tens of thousands of Indians, supported but never supplanted by foreign rescue teams, have hammered and clawed at rubble, pulling out survivors. Medical teams have reached distant villages, saving lives with operations on dusty pathways. Even in villages far from distribution centers, enough food has been delivered to sustain millions.

The successes, often, have been the work of the one government institution in India that has almost universal respect for its efficiency, the army. But even more than the army, the mitigation of the disaster has been the work of ordinary Indians, working as volunteers, some traveling days by train and bus and private car from towns a thousand miles away and more, paying their own way, sleeping in the open, taking leave without pay from jobs.

This, too, has always been a large part of India`s story, visible at every disaster, perceptible on every street corner in good times and bad. In its boundless good will, good humor and generosity — qualities in abundance in Bhuj, along with the sorrow — India again this week defied the cynical adage that countries get the governments they deserve.

Typical of many was Ghaurav Malhotra, 22, who works in a loan agency in Delhi, a two-day train journey away by ``hard seat`` class. With two friends, he had traveled with plastic sacks and cardboard boxes filled with donated medicine, clothing and food, and was preparing to join volunteer teams searching for survivors. Mr. Malhotra said he and others in his generation were tired of an India that allowed politicians and senior officials to put careerism and personal gain ahead of public duty.

``I saw on television how it was on the first day, no effective government action, people dying unnecessarily, and I felt bad inside,`` he said.

The kind of government India needed, he said, was one that rid itself of politicians and babus whose approach to problems was ``form a cell, write a paper, build new files, pass them here and there, reconsider, build more files, and, maybe, after months or years, take a decision.``

``We want a government that says: `Forget cells! Forget files! Just do it!` ``

Lati Chappu #259

Thanks for information of your highly precious knowledge.

What is the meaning of Chappu in Hindi.

Re: Krashid

Badhaee is Hindi for a Suppository.

Latif Chappu

P.S: And what will you achieve by giving gaalees to what you think my religion is? Belive me, I have very little attachment with all forms of organized religion (especially Hinduism) so knock yourself out.

P.S: Hey were you a communications major by the way? Such lucidity! Such flow! Subhanallah!

Re: Hmmmmm

You ask me to reverse the glass house equation. Couldn`t agree with you more! That was the whole point of my post 189.

In your post 193 you acknowledge Pakistani support for terrorism as being `not news` and that `everybody knows about it` (excluding Tahmed that is) and then go on to assert that one should be glad for the help the earthquake victims received. OK!

At what point did I say that I or anybody else should not be glad? If there was no compassion shown by the Pakistani population, then where was the irony?

The irony is present because there is genuine compassion and genuine loathing for each other FROM BOTH SIDES)

But all you can perceive is that in order to demonstrate the dichotomy I reiterated the ugly side of the relationship.

Could it be you who are making assumption of malicious intent just based on the nationality of the commentator?

Re: Scout

I didn`t provoke anything. Like I told Hmmmmm (what a terrible name to address someone with :)).

Assistance is given by a bazillion countries. Why do you think it is such a big story that Pakistan is giving assistance. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS RIGHT? Apparently not so obvious to you!

You know why I incurred your wrath here? For stating the obvious! For pointing out the Omni-present irony of the Indo_pak relationship. And of course I incurred your wrath because you sensed an `Anti-Pakistanism` in my post. You call my post `propaganda poison`. Which part of it is propaganda?

That there is popular support in Pakistan for Jehadi movement in India?

That there is genuine concern in Pakistan for the earthquake victims?

That the Pakistani Army is fully involved in training, arming & smuggling killers into India?

That the Pakistani Army organized and executed the relief work on Pakistan`s behalf?

Which part of my primary assertions listed above are `propaganda poison`?

Re: Tahmed

I said it before and I will say it again. If based upon my interaction here, you have found the necessity to call me `a promoter of hostility` and `no better than a terrorist` then all I can say is that I have lost the respect I had of you.

My impression is based upon personal interaction with Pakistani friends, interactions of Chowk & reading countless commentaries and articles from reliable sources.

If all those people are liars & slanderers.... then it would seem like there`s some money to be made.

Please call 1-800-COCHRAN. Maybe he can play the `evil western propaganda` card for you.

Latif chappu re:235

Was it the same NYT article that pointed put that all evidence pointed towards Indian Intelligence of carrying out the massacre of the Sikhs? How many civilians has the LiT massacred between then and now?

In response to Zahra (Reply # 256)
Dear Zahra:

I think, we all interact to learn from each other. I did not take it personally. However, I have got the message.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. In your future posts, you may call me with my first name.

Dear Mr.Ahmad:

Was there any qualifier with my comment? Was it addressed to you? :-) If I were you, I would not take it personally.

:-)

Later!

In response to Zahra (Reply # 254)
Dear Zahra:

Your statement: ``Typical Social Sciences Attitude and Thinking Process!!!!``

My reply: I am a social scientist but I am clueless about the meaning of your statement. Please explain.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Sameer JB:

[You posted the following letter which represent the thinking of a large number of Pakistanis.]

Since when have the Google Search Engine started giving you the consensus on the thinking pattern of All/Large Number of Pakistanis? Please do care to introduce me to that particular engine! I would love to enlighten myself!!![101% Innocent Inquiry (?/?)]

[Yes, it is myopic vision. The author of this letter did not think of other past calamities which were not only destructive to people but also to animals and plants. What were the sins of dianosaurs to be made extinct 65 million years ago while rats and other small animals must be thankful to God for saving them? Similarly how sinful naeanderthals were compared to homo-sapiens sapiens to be exterminated from the face of the earth?]

Typical Social Sciences Attitude and Thinking Process!!!!

PS: I will come back to dissect the thoughts expressed in the latter half of your post.

Stay Tuned :-)

OK!


Fairdinkum:
I have to write what I am about to write, for I am a die hard believer that one should give the devil its due :-)

Allow me to admit a few things:
a)I do not read each and every post.
b)I don`t care to read all the posts written by the same writer, who I may have read once or twice.

Somehow, I did browse through a few posts where you`ve stated your understanding of some controversial issues and I am indeed very impressed by your grasp. Your synthesis of a point is right on the mark -- no Ayaen Bayaen Shaen!!![As per my view]

Also, unlike many, you have the capability to understand others and are not stuck amongst theoretical concepts and myths!

Don`t they call such people, worldly savvy ? :-) Whatever....

Just wanted to appreciate your commprehension!!!

Regards!

Re: Umairr #233

``So I am hoping that Indians themselves realize the mistake their govt. is making by dishing out billions of dollars to purchase offensive weaponry, and criticize it themselves``

On a purely financial basis, the fact of the matter is that India can afford both (ie. simulataneous earthquake relief and defence spending). The total cost of reconstruction following the earthquake by the Gujarat government is $4.1 bn -- an amount equal to what is being raised by the Union government through a 2% income tax increase on the highest income bracket. Second, India`s defence spending is still less than 3% of GDP -- a 1% increase (of a $500 bn economy) is $5bn. Even the Opposition has not faulted the Government for its relief response -- infact, should an enquiry ever be made, it will surely implicate the former governments (now in Opposition) for being asleep on the watch while unscrupulous builders violated building codes. Perhaps, therein lies the reason for their silence.

``I am surprised more Indians do not speak up about the completely unnecessary arms build up India is carrying out``

I would like to remind all that a responsible government needs to pay attention to legitimate defence needs and to all other welfare matters (including relief from natural disasters). If indeed India`s defence capabilities are far beyond its legitimate needs and capable of deterring neighbors, then why did Pakistan initiate a Kargil type misadventure? Should it not have been deterred if indeed India`s weaponry was so overwhelming?

No Opposition party (Congress, Communists) or non-BJP member of the ruling alliance (Telegu Desam,DMK, etc.)has so far faulted the Government of India for either excessive defence spending or an inadequate response for disaster relief.

If you know anyone who thinks God is punishing infidels with the earthquake, please point out to them

``Kutch district has a population that is approximately 26% Muslim- more than twice the national average of India. Infact, some of the worst-hit, AND very remote areas like Anjar have even higher percentages of Muslims``.

[I haven`t verified these details for myself, but believe the source to be accurate.]

-Arun Gupta

In response to SameerJB (Reply # 248)
Dear Sameer:

Your statement: ``We try our best to live and continue the experience of being alive. The goal should be to live and live a better life. This lesson does not come from natural disasters but from the standards of quality of living.``

My reply: I concur. Indeed, there are societies which have learned to live a better life by minimizing the effects of natural hazards and by raising the ``standards of quality of living.``

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to fairdinkum (Reply # 249)
Dear Fairdinkum:

I will give the benefit of doubt to Ayesha and accept your interpretation. Perhaps this is what she was trying to communicate.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Re: Aysha`s letter

Bilal and Sameer,

Whereas I concur with your views re this letter that aysha`s thoughts are simplistic and myopic, but we must keep things in perspective. I guess Aysha is a young woman, who is searching for an explanation/trying to make sense of what has happened in Gujrat... quite normal and natural.

Her advice to Pakistanis could be interpreted in many ways… she could be saying that we shouldn`t boast that we are Allah`s favorite or that Indians are somehow less loved by God than us Pakistanis (thereby refuting statements made by Pakistani religious right in relation to this human tragedy)... A “good Muslim” means different things to different people… By advising us to be ``good Muslims” she could be pointing to the fact that we should be more humane in our behavior and shouldn`t be too complacent about the tragedy in Gujrat.

Bilal Ahmad #215: You posted the following letter which represent the thinking of a large number of Pakistanis.

Dawn, Letter, February 2, 2001

Quake: a lesson for us

THE quake brought destruction to India and some parts of Pakistan. As a Muslim we should thank Allah for saving us. Here is a lesson to all the Muslims living in Pakistan that this powerful quake could have struck us. Allah saved us not because we are his favourites but because He wants us to be a good Muslims.

AYESHA SIDDIQUI

Houston, USA

Yes, it is myopic vision. The author of this letter did not think of other past calamities which were not only destructive to people but also to animals and plants. What were the sins of dianosaurs to be made extinct 65 million years ago while rats and other small animals must be thankful to God for saving them? Similarly how sinful naeanderthals were compared to homo-sapiens sapiens to be exterminated from the face of the earth?

If plants, animals and neanderthals were only living by natural instincts and we have developed the concepts of evil, sins, virtues in the last 30-40 thousand years; can`t we be more careful/ selective in using what we have created. Because human can easily destroy their own creations. They did not create nature and laws governing the nature and therefore have to accomodate to them in such a way as harmless as possible-earthquakes being one such example.

It is nonsense to think natural calamities as a lesson from God for those who survive the disaster. They are bound to live their lives with a mixture of virtues and sins with a good possibility of more sinning than virtuosity. This philosophy falls on its face when you consider death as as an end to further sinning. The people who survived, then, actually should be ashamed of themselves instead of thanking God, for survivng with the possibility of comitting more sins.

The fact is quite contrary. We try our best to live and continue the experience of being alive. The goal should be to live and live a better life. This lesson does not come from natural disasters but from the standards of quality of living.

Latif Chappu
Its an attention-span thing.

Umairr
I think I saw an op-ed somewhere advising George Bush Jr, that spending millions of dollars reviving missile defence will do no good, because someone somewhere will always find a way to defeat it. In the long run, political solutions are the most durable reliable solutions. India`s interactions with China seem to reflect an acceptance of that reality.

But where India-Pakistan are concerned, I`m guessing as an amateur that political solutions are harder to find because we haven`t got out of hangups like Partition, Bangladesh, The Cold War, Kashmir, ``one momin=5 kafirs``, Kargil. India-China relations and India-Pakistan relations may be further complicated by China-Pakistan relations.

Sadhana