Eathquake Hits India And Pakistan

If I was in a positon of influence in Pakistan I would have offered the services of Pakistan Army`s mobile hospital units for the immediate relief of the vicitms.

Natural calamities knows no boundaries.

From this distance I can only offer heartfelt condolences and prayers for those who suffered the ordeal and some paltry donations.

Am saddened....

---t

My check is on the way...I feel ashamed not being able to do more than contribute money but I hope it helps...

Incidents like this force us to confront our own mortality...and in doing that I hope it makes each of us realize how precious human life is...that earthquake was in Turkey last year, in El Salvador last month, and is in India today...who knows where it will be tomorrow.

Further, tragedies like this are particularly heart-breaking in poor countries like our`s. Especially with the incompetent leaders we are cursed with who have once again managed to get the blood of hundreds on their hands...the rescue and relief process is utterly pathetic.

My check is on the way. Wish I could do more...

Ras


On another more positive note,
From The Hindustan Times today:


Seismopolitics: Sink differences, help
Pramit Pal Chaudhuri
(New Delhi, January 27)

NOTHING LIKE a tragedy to bring neighbours closer together. General Pervez Musharraf may be hoping so. His condolence message over the Gujarat earthquake was among the first to reach Atal Bihari Vajpayee. While this is standard, Musharraf has gone an extra yard by offering relief to the victims.

The Pakistani High Commissioner in New Delhi has told the media he is ready and waiting to coordinate relief activities with Indian authorities.

Given Musharraf`s repeated attempts to thaw the diplomatic freeze that descended on Indo-Pakistani relations after Kargil, some analysts say it is not unlikely that the condolence message carries a subtext.

When Moscow decided to accept US assistance after the December 1987 Armenian earthquake, it was a sign the Cold War was over. The then US President, George Bush, sent his son Jeb and 12-year-old grandson along with blankets and medicine. Mikhail Gorbachev said later that seeing Bush family members weeping at Armenia`s devastation led Russians to feel ``that Americans genuinely cared about their suffering.``

When Turkey was flattened by a quake in August last year, everyone was surprised when rival Greece dispatched aid within hours. The following month Mother Nature shook up Greece, and Ankara gave as good as it got. The diplomatic aftershock: for the first time ever, the two co-sponsored a UN resolution. ``Seismopolitics,`` said a Greek policy magazine.

The effusiveness with which aid is sent can be a measure of bilateral comfort levels. The normally restrained Chinese have already given money to the Red Cross for Bhuj, continuing the upbeat aura surrounding Li Peng`s recent visit.

New Delhi is reportedly in a quandary about Taiwan`s offer. India doesn`t recognise the Taipei regime.

Morocco`s condolence message speaks of the ``friendly country`` of India and its ``friendly people.`` It helps that India last year derecognised the Sahrawi rebel government, which opposes Rabat.

The politics of humanitarian assistance is not always about the milk of human kindness. Consider the vitriol Baghdad and Washington toss at each other about the use and abuse of the oil-for-food exchange Iraq is allowed under UN sanctions.

Musharraf`s opponents have used Bhuj to take a poke at him. The exiled Muttahida Quami Movement sent Vajpayee a condolence message that rhetorically outdoes Islamabad`s. And pointedly adds that it does so on behalf of ``the people of Pakistan.``

At least the days when the third world refused emergency aid out of pride are gone. ``This is no longer seen as a diminution of national sovereignty,`` said one former Indian foreign secretary.

It`s interesting to see everyone get so warm and brotherly in the wake of this catasptrophe -- even as they otherwise propagate xenophobia all year round that-- the same xenophobia that places weapons of mass destruction in the hands of their leaders.

Oh well... whatever it takes for us to show that we really are good, caring human beings inside... never mind that 10 times more people die of hunger and dieases because 36 percent of the GDP goes toward defense because we can`t trust those who worship a different god/s.

Aga Khan offers 500,000 dollars to quake victims

PARIS, 27 jan (AFP) -



The spiritual leader of Ismaili Muslims, the Aga Khan, will donate 500,000 dollars (460,000 euros) of aid to victims of the earthquake in India, his office said in a statement.

The Aga Khan, one of the world`s richest men, said he had sent a message of condolence to India`s Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee and to the Indian people in name of the Ismaili community.

PM #4:


[...It`s interesting to see everyone get so warm and brotherly in the wake of this catasptrophe -- even as they otherwise propagate xenophobia all year round that-- the same xenophobia that places weapons of mass destruction in the hands of their leaders....]

Please check a dictionary of your choice for the meaning of EVERYONE and XENOPHOBIA.

Show me one instance where I have succumbed to this alleged xenophobia --- here on Chowk or anywhere else for that matter.

I am perturbed you are using this forum for an otherwise legitimate beef that needs to be discussed amongst us.

Wrong time, Pat, and wrong place...

rgds,

t

Very sad indeed.

Hope Pakistan, being in close proximity, can be of some assitance.

I can only imagine what relatives of the people missing are going through and Indians abroad who can`t get in touch with their loved ones.

My prayers are with everyone affected by this tragedy.

Heartfelt condolences to all those directly affected by this disaster (for indeed, such a disaster affects all of us at some level, even if purely intellectual).

Ras Siddiqi # 3

Yaar, as a journalist you should verify your facts and information before publishing them!

George Bush was the president from 1988-92(more accurately from 1989-1993, when he was succeded by William Jefferson Clinton on 20th January 1993 after winning the general election of 1988) and he was Reagan`s vice-president in 1987 when he dispatched his son and grandson to aid the victims of the Armenian disaster!

Ciao!

Re: Ferozk # 9

Sorry folks...that was the general election of 1992 and not 1988!

That was a faux pas sans comparé on my part! :)

Ciao!

As one of my mentor put it succintly when my brother was very sick.

He told me:

``Although I may not feel the same as you do. But I will help you in whatever way in your ordeal``.

Political fight aside, this is a great human tragedy (I heard more than 25,000 died) and victims need to be taken care of.

On another note it was few hundred miles from cities in Pakistan and we should be thankful to God that it did not produce havoc in Pakistan.

Chowk Staff,

Thanks

PM #10:

``Oh well... whatever it takes for us to show that we really are good, caring human beings inside... never mind that 10 times more people die of hunger and dieases because 36 percent of the GDP goes toward defense because we can`t trust those who worship a different god/s.``

I think you are over-simplifying issues here. The current estimate of the people that died, due to this earthquake, in India is around 15,000. CNN showed bird`s eye pictures of the whole city, and there wasn`t a building standing. I don`t think 150,000 (10 times as many) people die due to hunger in India and Pakistan. I believe the current drought in Pakistan was the first time, after a very long time, when someone actually died due to hunger. I am assuming the same for India. Quite a few people do die due to disease, but not due to hunger.

The issues leading to war between India and Pakistan are related to geographical problems, rather than, ``different god/s.`` If those geographical problems are solved, then I don`t think anyone is going to really care about the different god/s issues.

On the whole, I think there was genuine sympathy amongst Pakistan during the Indian aircraft hijacking, and there is genuine sympathy now, during the earthquake. The average human being, regardless of the god he/she believes in, does in these type of situations, realizes that it could just as easily happen to him/her. Hence there is always some level of genuine sympathy.

Your comments about defence budgets are correct, though somewhat simple. I agree that any amount of money spent, in access of that needed to for self-defence, is a waste. It just takes away from the money that could be spent on situations like this.

One of the Indians whom I just hired is from Gujrat. He was the first to ask me whether my family had been effected. Considering the fact, that only a few people died in Pakistan, and thousands died in India, I should have asked him first. So there is mutual sympathy.

My condolences to everyone who has been effected by this earthquake, even if he/she believes in a different god.

Re: Ferozk`s quite valid critique

``Seismopolitics: Sink differences, help

Pramit Pal Chaudhuri

(New Delhi, January 27) ``

Hi Fk,

While your critique is absolutely spot on, I fail to see the necessity of such given that Ras was merely forwarding someone else`s article, with some relevance to the current natural debacle. .

``Mio amico, excusa mei, sono molto occupato con questa disastro grande. Perfavore lasciare questo ``sotto vocce`` per una altre approprio momente. Il presidente di uniti stati non e importante addesso. mille grazie!

Ciao e arrivederci,

Asim

I would be placing on this site, in a very short while, some ideas on how I plan to coordinate a chowk fund initiative . . . but need to know, is that a good idea?

it was 8:16 am ,friday, january 2001. hyderabad sindh. i was sleeping in my room. suddenly i was wake up as whole room was shook up by a powerful tremor. the realization that it was an earthquake took a second and i ran out of my room. on that particular moment i thought O God! Have mercy on us. then it was over. we were safe and sound. but those few seconds of quake have changed the way i look at life. we take so many things for granted. the house where i live could have been collapsed. i might have not alived. the city i love so much could be in ruins. it needs just seconds to destroy all the thngs which we think are so valuable to us.jobs, businesses, assets, future plans all came to naught as we went in the open sky and left our house to safe our selves from expected more jolts on friday. and when the news of devastation and destruction and human tragedy and calamity started coming in fromgujarat in india i felt a bond of attachment with indian people,because they were suffering from the same quake which had hit us as well. it could have been the same tragedy here. we are so close and yet so apart. i hope that this natural disaster would bring the two people of same mass of land ie subcontinent would help each other in this hour of great suffering.

veeresh,

I think it`s a good idea. we talk a lot here... its time for some actions... please elaborate on your plan.

Re: Asim Hayat

Point well taken and yes, the comment could have been said else where. The only problem is that one should use correct terminology or chronology, because if another person decides to use the information as a reference, s/he suffers as a result!

The disaster in India should not be an excuse to overlook factual errors! More earthquakes will continue to happen and more people will continue to die accordingly and life will continue to move forward perpetually.

Right now everyone is shocked and horrified at how slender is the thread of life and emotions of care and affinity are being uttered and there is a sense of bon homme between Indians and Pakistanis, but this will pass with time and we will once again forget how delicate life really is, as we once more threaten each other with nuclear annilation.

We browns are a sentimental lot and once we shed our baleful buckets of tears, we will revert back to tearing each other to shreds like always! :)

...old habits die hard in India and Pakistan! :)

Ciao!

I was just considering this . . . but time for action . . . Cheques/Money Orders could be drawn in favor of ``Prime Minister`s National Relief Fund`` and can be sent to me at : Veeresh Malik, chowk, D-61, Defence Colony, New Delhi 110024, India.

tel 91-11-4644012

The rest is upto chowk editorial staff . . . I wil provide them with a list of names and amounts . . .

Very sad news.My thoughts and prayers are with the suffering families.May Allah [swt] help in rehabilitating the people so unfortunately struck by this great tragedy , physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially.[Aameen ]

It is a very good idea to start a chowk fund , and i second the proposition all the way !

Shirin

Aftershocks or Preshocks

The U.S. Geological Survey in Golden, Colorado, put the magnitude of the Indian Republic Day quake at 7.9 and said aftershocks could be expected for days or even weeks.



Seismologists recorded more than 80 aftershocks, one of which measured 5.6 on the Richter scale.

In Ahmedabad, thousands of residents, fearful of further aftershocks, still opt to stay outdoors.



Has the time not come for mankind to fear ALLAH and repent for the mischief on Earth? Are not these ``preshocks`` to warn the Final Convulsion before the Day of Judgement?

Th following verse from Quran highlights the divinic justice done to rejectors of ALLAH`s Message

To the Madyan (people) (We sent) their brother Shu`aib. Then he said: ``O my people!

Serve Allah, and fear the Last Day: nor commit evil on the earth, with intent to do mischief.``

But they denied him, and the dreadful earthquake took them, and morning

found them prostrate in their dwelling place.(Surah Al-Ankabut Verses 36-37)

The richest country in the world gives 25,000 donation for earthquake victims. Even Aga Khan a single person gave 500,000. Countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Oman and Bangladesh have given more than US.

The Kuwaiti Red Crescent announced Sunday 250,000 dollars in emergency relief for the victims of the earthquake in India, which is believed to have claimed at least 20,000 lives.

Quoted by the official KUNA agency, Kuwaiti Red Crescent president Barjas Hamud al-Barjas said his organisation will coordinate its action with the Kuwaiti authorities to send the financial aid to India ``as quickly as possible.``

In Riyadh, Saudi King Fahd gave instructions to send two cargo planes of relief goods to India.

Qatar also announced it was sending emergency humanitarian aid to India, where the Gujarat state was hit by an earthquake on Friday, the worst the country witnessed in 50 years.

On Saturday, Oman shipped relief goods to India for the quake victims and announced another shipment of food and medical supplies for Sunday.



President Bush offered condolences to the victims and said the United States is willing to provide assistance ``as needed and desired by the governments`` of both India and Pakistan. As an initial donation, the U.S. ambassador to India, Richard Celeste, provided $25,000 from a fund for emergencies.

these are children as dear to me as my daughter . . . they have been (this little team of 4 girls and 3 boys) together since nursery and i`ve just finished 2 days of helping de-trauma Umang`s parents . . . the big line here is ``all the people I knew in Anjar are dead`` . . .

----- Original Message -----

From: Sudha & Veeresh Malik

To: N.Madhavan

Cc: umangbhatta@yahoo.com ; Veeresh Malik ;

Sent: 28 January 2001 22:19

Subject: Re: Back from Anjar - alive.

Mr Madhavan,

this is umang.I am using Veeresh uncles account .

I came back from gujrat this morning.I realy would like to speak with you at the earliest. I am on phone 98100-14643 and/or 914538375-grandparents and/or 6465128-parents . . . Anjar is still not connected by telephone and all the people I knew there are dead . . . sorry about being so brutal about it but that is the truth . . .

thank you for getting in touch,

sincerely/Umang

----- Original Message -----

From: N.Madhavan

To: Veeresh Malik Personal

Cc: umangbhatta@yahoo.com

Sent: 28 January 2001 19:18

Subject: Re: Back from Anjar - alive.

hi umang.

i write this after a mail from my friend veeresh malik. i work for reuters and we would certainly like to get intouch with the people in anjar who can talk abt the old building and also you.

can u mail back to narayanan.madhavan@reuters.com??

please provide us with your phone numbers andalso any number for the anjar contacts.

many thanks and all the best. madhavan.

----- Origi nal Message -----

From: Veeresh Malik Personal

To: veeresh@vsnl.com ; Forbes Naushad ; Hormazd Sorabjee ; Malati Puranik ; Murad Ali Baig

Cc: umangbhatta@yahoo.com ; devashis@vsnl.com

Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 6:23 PM

Subject: Back from Anjar - alive.

Umang Bhattacharya is all of 20 years old, and a childhood friend of our daughter, Shauravi. He was in Old Anjar, near Bhuj, on a school trip from the Bangalore based ``Shristi School of Art Design``. On the morning of the earthquake he along with half of the 27-member group, was on the road from Old Anjar to Bhuj. The other half of the group was still in the old family home of one of the students.

The reason they are alive today is because the old home had wooden ceilings, traditional and sensible. This is the only house from Anjar where 100% survival was reported.

Umang is in copy on this email to some of my friends in the media, most in bcc, in case you would like to get in touch with him. Please do pass this message on.

Veeresh Malik

First,my condolences to all Pakistani families affected by the earth quake. A group of students including me has decided to contribute whatever meagre funds we can manage to help the people of Gujrat. I urge the others also to contribute to the affected people of their respective countries.

For Indians, I guess the best route is to contribute through someone who lives near Gujrat so that he can make sure the money goes into the proper hands. The other options are to contribute to the PM welfare fund, Redcross society etc.



Sincerely

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/280101/dtlnat27.asp

Hindus, Muslims turn blood-brothers

PTI

(Ahmedabad, January 28)

THE EARTHQUAKE has proved to be a mighty leveller, both literally and metaphorically, with people donating and receiving blood, cutting across the communal divide between Hindus, Muslims and Christians.

Over 100 Muslim youths camping at the Municipal Corporation run V S Hospital in the city have not slept since January 26, when the state was rocked by the earthquake.

The Muslim youths hailing from Behrampura, Jamalpur and Kagdiwad localities of the walled city have saved the lives of nearly 100 Hindu quake victims by donating their blood.

Aslam Rangira Bagchi, a Muslim youth from Jamalpur, said ``of the 100 Muslim youths camping here since January 26, at least 35 have donated blood a number of times so as to avoid shortage of blood at the V S Hospital, which continues to witness an unending stream of quake victims, who are mostly Hindus.``

To a question on the first reaction of the Hindu victims on seeing them at the hospital, he said ``undoubtedly they seem to get reassured on seeing us. (Unhe tasalli ho jati hai hume dekh kar) I have somehow managed to have some winks, my friends even didn`t have that luxury. Some of them have not slept for 24 hours.``

Leelatwai Daniel, assistant matron at the V S Hospital, said ``quake has bridged the gaps between hearts. Of the 153 quake victims admitted to hospital, many had suffered serious injuries in heads and other parts and required surgeries. If the Muslims had not volunteered to donate blood, the situation would have been critical.``

I`d like to add here that I was extremely disappointed to see that despite all the devastation that happened in India, television channels had the insensitivity to air Femina Miss India and the constant parade of stupid senseless songs! I expected a bit more humanity...thousands and thousands of people died and people are too busy hooting and whistling at anorexic, semi-naked girls who will `represent` India! It takes a special kind of ignorance and insensitivity to be so indifferent to the sufferings of people in your very own country!

Assalmlaikm,

Its indeed very sad. I hope all those who have lost something or someone have the strength and courage to go on.

``You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake.``

Jeannette Rankin

Wassalam.

Aisha

Indians and Pakistanis are working together

Members of the Indian and Pakistani community are working together to lend a helping hand to the thousands who lost their home in Friday`s deadly earthquake.

Rescue workers in the Indian province of Gujarat are losing hope, and officials fear that more than 15,000 people are dead.

One city has literally been reduced to rubble, and hundreds of soldiers continue to search by hand, hoping that someone may still be alive under the debris.

Residents of the Bayou City are trying to help those that survived.

Houston`s Indian community is rich in culture and strong in number. Independent businesses have flourished as immigrant families have settled into Houston.

Only two weeks ago Harshad Patel was in western India before the 7.9 earthquake hit. He belongs to an organization that is trying to unite other organizations for earthquake relief.

``We are together and supporting our loved ones back at home,`` Patel said.

Organizers are trying to come together as one relief effort.

Houston`s Indian community has more than 109,000 people.

The Indian community will gather for an emergency meeting at 2 p.m. Sunday at the Gandhi Community Center.

Several international organizations are doing their part to help victims of the earthquake.

The Red Cross is accepting donations for the relief effort at (800) HELP-NOW.

The aid organization ``CARE`` is also taking donations at (800) 521-CARE.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/kprc/20010128/lo/300364_1.html

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/807958

It`s a sad story. Everyone has sympathy for the victims. There are mixed feelings. This is Republic Day, a celebration of our independence day. At the same time, it is a chance for us to come together and console each other,`` said Shamsuddin Shaikh, 38, a research scientist at the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center.

Re: FerozK #18

``We browns are a sentimental lot and once we shed our baleful buckets of tears, we will revert back to tearing each other to shreds like always! :)

``

Sad but very true! But then again, we have our inherent flaws, and shortcmings that have historically prevented us from becoming ``malaika``. :)

Your averge brownie friend,

Asim

P.S It is indeed ironic to see that the nuclear superpowers such as ours(india and Pakistan) are unable to deal with such crises, on its own, and aid has to be flown in to help the unfortunate people, from those with whom they have eternal scuffles.

A masterpiece -- with an equally stunning title.

More -- more.

veeresh Look forward to seeing your proposal for a Chowk fund. A couple of thoughts in the meantime:

For the earthquake relief, we should not wait for the fund. There are enough agencies (as published by chowk) already available thru which funds may be channelled. For longer term relief, a chowk fund may be useful. Some possible modalities for that fund could be as follows:

a. Chowk maintains Bank Account, maintains uptodate on-line data on sources and uses of funds and audit reports.

b. Fund has the following goal incorporated in it`s charter: Promote peace and understanding between Indians and Pakistanis.

c. Fund identifies one or two organizations which already has on-the-ground activities in both countries. My choice would be SOS which runs orphanages in both Pakistan and India. The immediate focus could be children who have been orphaned by the earthquake in Gujrat.

d. Take it from there.

These are just a few thoughts that you may use as input, not a replacement for what you come up with to which I look forward to.

Re: Zahra, #25

Any formula for interest based on assumptions could lead to extortion in a closed, not free, economy. Say if the interest incorporates only discounted rate and not risk, then what inflation rate should be ``assumed`` to arrive at a discounted rate? And by all accounts, any rate, discount or not, is ``interest.``

In an ``Islamic Economy,`` to make a distinction between what is reasonable and what is not, interest rates charged on loans can have a legal ceiling such as, for example, no more than fifteen points above the Prime Rate or Libor, both set by the free market. I don`t think anybody would argue that fifteen points above Libor is ``usury`` or ``unreasonable`` for a high-risk borrower.

I feel sorry for the financial policy makers in Pakistan. I cannot wait for Pakistan to try to borrow money from the IMF or the World Bank and tell them that Pakistan will pay no interest on it, or try to raise funds in the international bonds market! I bet the investors will flock to the bonds issued by Pakistan Government that pays no interest!

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think an interest-free economy has never existed throughout human history, simply because it cannot. Interest-free economy is a lunacy. But, again, lunacy has been the corner stone of Pakistan`s policy makers for a long time. That is why Pakistan is in such a pitiful state today, at war within and without. Pity the common people of Pakistan

re. temporal (#8) and Umairr

temporal, no need to take my remarks personally. I was referring to the general reaction of many on these boards who at other times are spouting gems like ``the only good India/Pakistani is ....``; not just this board. I was also thinking of Gen Mushy`s offer when I wrote that. You are the last Pakistani on chowk I could accuse of xenophobia. My use of `everyone` was an inadvertent error.

you write ``I am perturbed you are using this forum for an otherwise legitimate beef that needs to be discussed amongst us.``

I thought twice before posting that reply, and decided to go ahead thinking that it`s possible postive impact (actually getting people to realize the folly of normally propagating enmity that could annihilate millions) could be maximized at this time.

I don`t doubt the genuine intentions shown by folks on both sides of the border for the other, though I find the outpouring of condolences on this medium somewhat stange to say the least. Do we really NEED to verbally express solidarity for other humans in ditress? Shouldn`t it go without saying?

That said, the efforts to raise funds here is quite commendable.



Umair, I used `ten times more` in a manner of speaking. No need to getthe calculator out. But whilst you`re at it... do tells us what (infant mortality + death through malnutrition and lack of vaccines) divided by 15000 equals.

P.S. At the time of writing the previous post, jang.com had the death toll at 2000.



krashid: ``thank god the death toll in Pakistan was not so high``????

--------

Mohajir,

The Bush Adminsitration sent $1m in services and goods. Still peanuts IMO, buttwice as many peanuts as any Gulf state you mentioned sent.

rgds

PM

Egalitarian Brahmin:

I was about to write my general feelings when I came across your post. I hope and pray that your family is amongst the survivors and may God grant strength and peace to the ones who`ve been the victims of this irremediable calamity.

Catastrophes are indeed unforeseen and unpredictable! Whenever one encounters directly or indirectly any such shakening incident, one realizes the insignificance of oneself!

Kind Regards

PM:

I think your post deserved the critique it received. This is not the right time to offer your services as the mediator between the two governments to resolve all the issues. There`ll be many many other venues where you can fully express your intentions! Please, be patient :-)

Take Care

egalitarian_brahmin #21

I hope and pray your loved ones are safe and sound.

I once knew someone who after hearing of the Lattur earthquake, without worrying about planning or contacts or anything else, just got on a train and landed up there to help. I understand that feeling now.

Sadhana

Pankaj,

It is hardly the time or place to prove a point. Let us stop saying ``I told you so`` for atleast now?

Sincerely

YLH

The death toll may be much higher than 15,000. There are still thousands of people in the countryside unaccounted for. Those who are contributing through donations or volunteers in teh field are truly truly praiseworthy-thousand times more than who are just relying on praying. And then there are those who are still thankful to God/ Bhagwan for not effecting their loved ones. I have nothing to thankful for in this kind of situation when the weak, poor, children and old are the primary victims of this massive earthquake. If it is the work of God, the jihadis, rss, sangh pariwar must be angels in comparison.

I bow my head today to those who are contributing in the most humane way possible and not to you, Mr. God/ Bhagwan or Whatever unless you give me the reason for taking the lives of young and innocent school children. A motive not understandable to human is no answer.

Egalitarian Brahman #21 This must have been a very difficult few days for you as a young student far from your loved ones and without any communication concerning the welfare of your loved ones. I am very glad that your family is safe.

Let us pray for the souls of the departed ones, and for God`s Blessings on those who have to rebuild their lives. Please keep all of us posted on chowk should you wish to discuss this further.

Masd #15 Thanks for sharing your experience with the earthquake in Hyderabad. It does make us realize some realities we so often forget in daily life: we all share a fragile existence amidst powerful forces that we can no more control than a few insects on a leaf can control a mighty river. What we can do is try not to damage the leaf too much, and learn to navigate in a cooperative manner.

ATTN:

#33 was not posted by me.

ylh#37

Sorry, I do not understand. What point I tried to prove?

Sincerely

SameerJB #38, `` And then there are those who are still thankful to God/ Bhagwan for not effecting their loved ones. I have nothing to thankful for in this kind of situation when the weak, poor,

children and old are the primary victims of this massive earthquake. If it is the work of God, the jihadis, rss, sangh pariwar must be angels in comparison.``

I know the feeling. It`s at times like this that I also question God and his ways. Perhaps this world is the hell we hear about and the innocent dying are going to a better place. It`s the only explanation I can come up with. Who knows.

HUMAN SUFFERINGS: NATURAL AND SOCIAL ORIGINS

I am saddened by the death and sufferings of such a large number of human beings. It is, however, so satisfying that both Indians and Pakistanis have expressed the kind of sentiments that need to be expressed in such a moment of distress.

The origin of the earthquake hazarad is essentially natural, though some aspects of the loss of life and property are rooted in the way we construct our settlements.

If we can show solidarity due to natural calamity, we can also find ways to alleviate our socially constructed difficulties. This indeed is moment of self-evaluation -- both individual and collective. In my view, both India and Pakistan need to divert a lot of money from the so-called defence budget to human development (which also includes the development of better built environment).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

May God give us the wisdom to learn from this natural disaster that we should try our best to avoid man-made disasters! I hope it finally sinks into our heads that we do not have enough resources to deal with the misery that we might unleash on each other due to our petty conflicts.

Peace.

Sameer JB # 38 - There is no God. Otherwise, he/she would not have let powerful people inflict so many zulms on poor and less powerful people throughout history. It’s jungle out there!

We have to learn to take natural disasters in stride since frankly, what else can we do. The real tragedy is that we learn very little from our own man-made disasters. As our weapons become increasingly powerful and brains stay same pea-sized, we will have to worry more about what we do to each other rather than what ``God`` is doing to us.

Sorry about digressing from discussion on the tragedy at hand.

Peace.

Dear Chowk:

Thank you for the addresses of all the relief agencies where people can donate. Also one can contact local Ramakrishna mission or Bharat Sebasram Sangha. The later is rather quick in all its relief work.

Sameer, I also do not understand what pleasure God may have by burying alive 400 innocent children. We can not think of any other rational but just to see how humanity prevails. See, how people come together irrespective of religious and political boundaries. This life is mortal any way, sooner or later we all pass away, become dust of the dust in the universe. This kind of natural disaster only proves how vulnerable we are, it might be God` action to remind us our humbleness, our temporary relationship with this cosmos, and accept the grief with utter humbleness. I don`t know! I have several classmates working in Jamnagar ONGC refinery. And I am worried about them. Last two nights, I kept waking up thinking if the ceiling above me falls now, and kept praying to God, please keep my friends safe. Some of them, I have not throught of for many years, and I know some of them bought flats spending all their savings. Hope they are not in those ill-fated highrises.

Really what is the meaning of life any way, and how people keep having positive attitudes after all these? Those who are still bickering at each other, do you not see how pointless, futile that is? Let us not pay a single dollar on defense, rather try to build a relationship where we live in a borderless society, where we can share each other`s grief. May be that is what God wants!

Regards

cheraym

Sameer JB #38

You are alive.

So still if you are not thankful to God, you should be for your luck.

I am very thankful to God because most of my family suffered only shocks and no real disaster.

If you still think these sentiment of mine are in vain. Then you have seen nothing in life. I have seen and suffered enough to know the value of not suffering, particularly a disaster like this.

Bilal Ahmad writes:

``If we can show solidarity due to natural calamity, we can also find ways to alleviate our socially constructed difficulties. This indeed is moment of self-evaluation -- both individual and collective. In my view, both India and Pakistan need to divert a lot of money from the so-called defence budget to human development (which also includes the development of better built environment).``

Aameen! May this message sink into the hearts and minds of all in a decision making position, and indeed, every individual.

Let us not get sidetracked by philosophical intricacies about a god who allows these catastrophies. The God in each of demands we learn what we can (about fragility of life, about the need work together to minimize these dangers) even from this great calamity.

We don`t have the luxury of philosophizing at this point.

Peace all!

True but not strange:-

1) Nature rules, regardless of technology.

2) The larger and higher they are, the harder they fall.

3) The Armed Forces are the only organisation that can provide relief to try to make things better, after which they go back to their business of trying to kill people better.

4) Relief through government organisations is considered suspect.

5) Looting was highest in the precious stones and gold district of Bhuj.

6) Television shows stuff that was up on the InterNet yesterday.

7) Spot ad rates during news on television have gone up. Like during the Kargil war.

Thanks scout, you are a brave girl. I remember starting sweating with fear even thinking in such terms and questioning the Unquestionable, when I was at your age. It took me a lot of courage to think beyond what was so forcefully stuffed into brain by my conservative family and society. Bilal Ahmad and dost-mittar are absolutely right to call it a natural disaster and nothing to do with being grateful or ungrateful. However, such events do make many people a tad better human than before albeit temporarily.

Pardesi: I gather you are more or less like me, having two or three level of personal convictions. My deepest conviction are same as what Bilal Ahmad, dost-mittar and you are saying. Let`s hope, such events bring the best out of few people and change their heart for good. The only reason I brought God into this discussion was some posts thanking Him for saving their loved ones. This looked very selfish to me and indicative of a slave-like behavior. I had similar experience two years ago at the death of my sister. Some people of my family were thanking God for letting her go peacefully and have a very honorable funeral attended by a big gathering and not questioning God for letting three young children become orphans.

Re: SameerJB

``And then there are those who are still thankful to God/ Bhagwan for not effecting their loved ones. I have nothing to thankful for in this kind of situation when the weak, poor, children and old are the primary victims of this massive earthquake. If it is the work of God, the jihadis, rss, sangh pariwar must be angels in comparison.``

You make an excellent point...how do people continue to believe in God as a guardian and protector of the weak when tragedies like this are so commonplace...every hurricane, earthquake, flood, and avalanche is a natural disaster shattering the lives of innocent people all over the world...no one deserves or asks for them...no one has control over them....shouldn`t divine intervention stop these disasters...

Rsaxena #52, ``how do people continue to believe in

God as a guardian and protector of the weak when tragedies like this are so commonplace...``

Some don`t. I personally believe in a God who is an audience, a tamashbeen, a director, (an artist who`s most beautiful creation was woman).....etc. etc.

A bit on the side of Shakespeare`s ``All the world`s a stage....bla bla bla...``

egalitarian_brahmin

I am constantly praying for the wellfare of your family and friends in Ahmedabad.I can imagine and feel the anguish you must be going through.Glad to know that your mother is safe.Hope as the time passes you hear only good things from back home regarding the safety of near and dear ones.please keep us posted of any news , if you feel like sharing.I share your grief at this moment , hearing about the turmoil the town which was home to you , is going through.Sitting far away, we can just hope and pray the best for our close ones , may God`s mercies be with them.[Aameen]and to an extent help with our humble contributions .

Shirin

RE:Masd #15

Very sad to hear of your experience, but very happy to see you survive it.Though i have not been very long at chowk, but somehow through the interactions , it feels like a very close knit community .We come from different cultural backgrounds, but that really pales into insignificance,and although we may be each other`s skin at times , i still regard all of us as being very close since we share so many of our personal experiences here .This is something one does only out of trust and concern and love for the fellow members.

so glad to see you and your family escape the disaster.May you live a very long and happy life [Aameen ].

Shirin

We have nuclear weapons, but we have to request a loan from the world bank to fund relief.

Everyone out there, treat this as a dress rehearsal, albeit only one thousandth fraction of, what is going to happen when Dr Strangelove pushes the button in our motherlands.

We can all discuss afterwards on Chowk whether it was Aurengzebs fault or the Hindu bania conspiracy, but we will all be happy then right?

This is the road we are travelling people.....

regards

Harpreet

I share Harpreet`s passimism and fears!

ISLAMABAD, Jan 29: General Pervez Musharraf today said India declined to accept Pakistan`s help offer following a devastating quake on Friday. ``I did offer help but their response was a little unfortunate. They said they have plenty at home. They thanked us,`` he told reporters today. (APP) (Posted @ 11:15 PST)

fairdinkum
Yes I am pessimistic too. 20,000 people are dead, many more are dying, many lakhs are homeless and Pakistanis are crying about THEIR hurt. Take a hike.

Sadhana

Harpreet
Yes, it will be cheaper to fund an insurgency.

http://www.rediff.com/news//2001/jan/29quak23.htm
India did not decline aid from Pak: Jaswant

India Monday denied Pakistani military ruler Gen Pervez Musharraf`s claim that it had declined relief assistance from Islamabad for victims of the devastating earthquake in Gujarat.

``India has refused no country and did not want to play politics at the time of a tragedy,`` External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh said in New Delhi.

In Islamabad, Musharraf was quoted as saying that ``I did offer help. But their response was a little unfortunate. They did not accept our offer for humanitarian assistance.``

Terming the remarks as ``trifle misleading``, an External Affairs Ministry spokesman said, ``No offer of assistance has been declined. We are in touch with the Pakistan Government`` in this regard.

The Indian High Commission in Islamabad conveyed to the military regime ``specific requirements that are in consonance with our priorities at this point of time and their mode of despatch of blankets, tents and medicines had been broadly conveyed to several countries, he said, adding that the government has been deeply appreciative of offers of assistance from the international community. PTI

Shirin Ahmed & Scout:

Your posts reflect the care & comfort which is needed by the survivors.

The dead are no more.They are at peace.It is the ones who are the grieving & berieving who need words of comfort & hope.

Hope!Now that is what keeps us going.,is`nt it?

It doesn`t matter,no matter how much we delude ourselves with ``progress`` & ``science``,it is HOPE and BELIEF that gives comfort to our souls.Some are always in denial and spend their lives in denial,but it never occurs to them that after thousands of years humans have not changed a bit.The ones we patronisingly call `masses` are far more bright & intelligent than thoses who have gotten trained to become a corporate-cog but have learned nothing worthwhile.

The `inner voice` is not there for nothing.

It is also a fact that some are born freaks and some have the ``intelligence`` to acquire it---like that other acquired syndrome.The real ``smart`` ones from them `wrest` the control out of God and like to end the show themselves.

Except that they should fight these phantoms themselves & not seek affirmations.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam

re: those non belivers

why should an earthquake remove our faith in God. We have `rain god`, `fire god`, `god(ess) for war` etc etc. Now we can have an `earth quake god`. After all God is a creation of Man`s ignorance.

Re: fairdinkum #56

Well, it turns out that that was only part of the story...it`s not nearly as bad.

``AHMEDABAD, India, Jan 29 (AFP) -

Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee said here Monday following a tour of quake-hit areas of Gujarat state that India would welcome assistance from any country, including regional rival Pakistan.

Asked during a press conference whether New Delhi would accept aid for quake victims from Islamabad, Vajpayee said: ``Yes, we`ll accept aid from anywhere.``

Earlier Monday, Pakistan`s military ruler General Pervez Musharraf said India had declined a Pakistani offer of relief for victims of Friday`s quake which left an estimated 20,000 people dead in Gujarat.

``I did offer help but their response was a little unfortunate,`` Musharraf told reporters. ``They said they have plenty at home. They thanked us.``

Pakistani officials in Islamabad said the Indian government, after declining offers of blankets, tents and medicines, had requested sniffer dogs and specialist equipment to detect signs of life under the rubble.

``Prompt arrangements`` were made for the despatch of sniffer dogs on Sunday and a special aircraft remained on the tarmac for more than six hours to fly the dogs to Ahmedabad, they said.``

I have stopped reading about the stories because I cant take any more descriptions like the 400 children killed when their school assembly hall collapsed.

I agree with Sameerjb. On Saturday my grandparents dragged me to the Gurudwara, where we gave money to Khalsa-Aid and did mathha tekh and prayed for those poor souls. Except I didnt really feel like praying to God, more like curse him. Because if he exists and this is his work, he is a b *stard. Strike me down for saying that, I dont care.

Now who out there is commited to building bridges and making peace so that we can be sure that we do not rain down mushroom fireclouds and do this to each other?

I absolutely do not trust our governments with their fingers on the trigger. It could happen.

At least remember, from this day forth, what our rhetoric can lead to......

regards

Harpreet

India quake disaster divine retribution: Lashkar-i-Taiba

KARACHI, Jan 29 (AFP) -

A Pakistan-based guerrilla outfit, the Lashkar-i-Taiba, on Monday described the earthquake havoc in India as divine retribution for Indian ``repression`` in Kashmir.

The earthquake disaster ``is a punishment for Indian rulers` reign of repression and terror in Kashmir,`` Lashkar chief Hafez Mohammad Saeed said in a statement.

India should learn a lesson from the disaster and ``stop atrocities against Muslim, Christian and Sikh minorities`` in that country, he said.

Saeed, however, expressed ``deep grief`` at the tragedy and offered to send help for the victims of the earthquake that has claimed an estimated 20,000 lives.

``We want to help. If possible we are willing to send hundreds of trained relief workers along with food, medicines and other goods.``

The hardline militant group is involved in the ongoing armed separatist struggle on the Indian side in the Himalayan region of Kashmir, divided between Islamabad and New Delhi.

The insurgency has claimed around 34,000 lives according to Indian figures. Pakistan and militant groups put the number at around 70,000 and accuse Indian forces of ``brutal repression.``

India blames Pakistan for fuelling the revolt. Islamabad denies the charge but vows moral and diplomatic support for the ``legitimate freedom struggle.``

Pakistan sending relief for quake victims after nod from India

ISLAMABAD, Jan 29 (AFP) -

Pakistan said Monday it would send relief to India for earthquake victims following Indian acceptance of its offer, which had first been declined, officials said.

The relief consignment, including blankets and tents, was expected to be flown to India on Tuesday.

Earlier Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf had said India had turned down Islamabad`s offer of relief.

``I did offer help but their response was a little unfortunate. They said they have plenty at home. They thanked us,`` he told reporters after inaugurating a state-owned mobile phone service here.

Later Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar, speaking on state-run television, said Pakistan would send relief goods to India.

The government ``hopes to be able to send these relief goods by early tomorrow (Tuesday) morning,`` he said.

``The terrible earthquake, which also hit some parts of Pakistan as well, is a big human tragedy and people of Pakistan do feel the terrible tragedy like all human beings.

``Feeling the heavy loss of human lives and extensive damage the people and government of Pakistan want to extend help,`` Sattar said.

Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajapyee said Monday that New Delhi would welcome assistance from any country, including its perennial regional rival.

Asked during a press conference in Hyderabad whether New Delhi would accept aid for quake victims from Islamabad, Vajpayee said: ``Yes, we`ll accept aid from anywhere.

Friday`s earthquake, measuring 7.9 on the Richter scale, killed an estimated 20,000 people and caused widespread destruction in the western Indian state of Gujarat.

Officials here said earlier the Indian government, after declining offers of blankets, tents and medicines, had requested sniffer dogs and specialist equipment to detect signs of life under the rubble.

``Prompt arrangements`` were made for the despatch of sniffer dogs on Sunday and a special aircraft remained on the tarmac for more than six hours to fly the dogs to Ahmedabad. However, late Sunday New Delhi informed Islamabad that their help was no longer required, they said.

Mutual mistrust continues to mar relations between the two countries who have fought three wars, two of them over the Himalayan state of Kashmir.

#22

That`s the primitive sort of belief that leads to fatalism and exacerbates the effect of natural disasters in the first place.

Re: a point Veeresh made: the traditional mud and brick dwellings absorb the energy and therefore are liable to fall apart. From what I understand, most of the traditional (lighter) structures were completely levelled whereas reinforced concrete structures withstood the shake rather well. Only the shoddy ones pancaked. Given that you`d expect that property damage would be greater but fewer lives would be lost in places (like Bhuj) where traditional structures dominate(d). Apparently that`s not what happened. Am I right on this? What`s the explanation? I hope construction companies that built the shoddy structures will be made accountable.

re, #53

``I personally believe in a God who is an audience, a tamashbeen, a director, (an artist who`s most beautiful creation was woman).....etc. etc.``

scout, I`m a little curious... have you ever had a near and dear one meet with a tragic, untimely death?

No need to answer here unless you really want to.

rgds

At times like this, words fail me. I heard an NPR report yesterday which said that a group of schoolkids getting ready for the republic day parade were buried beneath the rubble. Of the 400 odd kids, only 35-40 were pulled out alive. This 52nd day of the Indian republic I celebrated yet another birthday. However, this time I did not lament my advancing years because this horrible catastrophe let me know what was really important in life, and what are purely my vanities.

What can we do except send a few dollars? The futility of it frustrates me and the stories from the epicenter make me cry. Let us hope everyone affected can somehow carry on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1139000/1139807.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/28/gujarat.relief/index.html

From Yahoo News:

Pakistan said it would send a planeload of relief supplies, following wordy confusion between the arch rivals about an offer by Islamabad.

``The government of Pakistan hopes to be able to send a planeload of relief goods on Tuesday morning,`` Pakistan Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar said.

He said confusion had arisen earlier after India conveyed to Islamabad that it no longer needed sniffer dogs it had sought to trace people trapped under debris.

Sameer,

If you can blame God, then why do you feel it is ‘slave-like’ to thank God?

Survival or death in such times is at times inexplicable.. why does one die while another lives? Is it random fluctuations in space and time or divine intervention? Is it more reassuring to believe that we are all insects that can be crushed at any time by fickle fate?

With sympathy to you on your feelings regarding the loss of a sister – is there any time that you would feel God had made a ‘right’ decision in taking her from this world?

Unfortunately the usual answer is that it is, indeed, well beyond our comprehension what God plans for us. The concept of qismet is simply one that I cannot even imagine.. so I do not pause to consider if what I do has already been ‘preordained’. I believe strongly in free will.. but how to reconcile that with the concept of God as omniscient?

I apologize for placing this badly constructed reply here, where we should be focusing on the tragedy itself.

Rsaxena:

And yet one woman pulled from the rubble says it was her faith in her Hindu dieties that kept her alive..

SameerJB and others -- You are disappointed that God does not fit your requirements. Too bad.

Before worrying about God, consider that there are a lot of human factors behind this tragedy. I reason as follows :

1. Pictures from Ahmedabad show buildings completely collapsed next to buildings still standing (though damaged).

2. While close to the epicenter of the earthquake, the difference in stresses at nearby sites will be large, at a distance, as in Ahmedabad, most all buildings would feel the same stress.

3. Therefore buildings that did not collapse had superior construction (design and or materials) to those that did collapse.

4. Therefore everyone involved in the construction of buildings who took short cuts ( extra sand in the cement, inferior steel, fudged passing grade in structural engineering, whatever), building inspectors who turned a blind eye, corrupt city officials, etc. etc. are implicated in the tragedy.

5. Because more building collapsed than should have, rescue services were stretched thinner, and people who might have been saved -- it was a strong earthquake after all, and there would have been damage, no matter what -- were not saved.

6. Everyone who acquiesced passively in the system that was not doing its job with ``this is business as usual``, ``chaltA hai``, is also implicated.

Please take a look at the following three articles by Cowasjee :

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/990829.htm

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/990905.htm

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/990912.htm

There is a clear warning there as to what will happen when the system is corrupt.

Damage from an earthquake, especially one so strong is inevitable. The preparations to face such unavoidable events, however are in our hands.

We can start worrying about blaming God after we have taken all action that is humanly possible to mitigate such disasters, and it turns out to be in vain.

(To those who say India is a poor country and can`t afford all this earthquake preparedness -- the extra cost spent up-front is trivial compared to the cost after a disaster).

-Arun Gupta

Till then, the finger points at us. There is no evading the responsibility.

-Arun Gupta

You will all be happy to know that Siqafat,the Pakistani Cultural Club`s showing of the Movie

``Jinnah`` is now going to be a fundraising event for the Indian Earthquake victims, to be held on 15th of Feb. Recent events at Rutgers have generated enough interest for this event to be sold out.

-Yasser Hamdani

Here is the latest:

``India to accept aid from Pakistan: PM

(Updated at 2030 PST)

AHMEDABAD: Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee said here Monday following a tour of quake hit areas of Gujarat state that India would welcome assistance from any country, including Pakistan.

Asked during a press conference whether New Delhi would accept aid for quake victims from Islamabad, Vajpayee said: ``Yes, we`ll accept aid from anywhere.``

Pakistan to send quake aid to India

(Updated at 2030 PST)

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan said on Monday it would send a plane load of relief supplies for earthquake victims in India.

Chief Executive General Pervez Musharraf said on Monday morning India had declined his offer of help in coping with the aftermath of last week`s devastating earthquake, but an Indian official denied any help had been offered.

However, Pakistan Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar said in the evening that New Delhi had welcomed Islamabad`s offer and asked for tents and blankets.`` (The NEWS, Pakistan)

I completely agree with Patrick. This is indeed the time to challenge some of these people...

All that are sensible here have registered their condolences. No surprises!

But what about those that have made statements in the past like, ``Only good Indian is a dead one``. Are they happy? Are the remorseful?

I wonder if somewhere in a small crevice of the heart of the person who wishes death upon someone registers a little tremor of guilt when it actually happens?

I wonder...

shireen ahmed reply #54

thanks for your good wishes.

List of Earthquake Relief Funds Accepting Contributions

http://www.sulekha.com/earthquake.html

I think all Indians in US should ask their American collegues and neighbors to contribute. Indians should go to their neighbors houses, collegues office rooms/cubicles and request for donations. Explain them the grave situation in India where more than 50,000 have died.

Even if they contribute few dollars it would add up.

Since the issue of God came up, take a look at this !

This message just arrived from ``Gospel of Asia,`` a Christian missionary-sending organization based in Texas: ``Please do remember our leaders and native missionaries as they seek to meet the physical and spiritual needs of these earthquake victims. We are particularly asking the Lord to use this tragedy for His glory, to soften hearts and open doors for the Gospel.``

-Arun Gupta

PM #68,

yes

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/808323

Quake-relief effort unites Houstonians

Groups raise funds for India`s victims

By TERESA TINGLE

Houston-area Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and Christians united Sunday to raise funds for victims of Friday`s earthquake in the west Indian state of Gujarat.

Gujarati Samaj, an Indian-American cultural group, coordinated the relief effort at the Mahatma Gandhi Community Center.

``Please help our motherland,`` said Nita Mehta of the Houston Senior Citizens. ``Our motherland is in need. I appeal to you all to open your hearts generously.``

So far, the India Development & Relief Fund has reached $250,000. This includes $15,000 that was raised at Saturday`s Republic Day festival, said coordinator Vijay Pallod.

Next week the money will be sent to organizations that have been helping the victims.

Donations of food and clothing are being discouraged because the expense of shipping goods to India is much costlier than sending money and purchasing the items there, Pallod said.

Members of non-Indian organizations pledged not only funds but alliances with the Indian-American community.

Masrur Khan, president of the Pakistan Association of Greater Houston, said the Indian community has his organization`s support.

``Our prayers are with you here in Houston and with you in India,`` he said. ``We will solve the problems the destruction has caused together. We`ll stand together with our Indian brothers.``

The Rev. James Dixon II and about 50 members of his Northwest Community Baptist Church attended the meeting. Dixon pledged $3,000 to the fund.

``We have your cares at heart,`` Dixon told the group. ``As a Christian, God created us to share with others,`` he said. ``We will be with you until all suffering has been alleviated.``

Dixon also promised to organize fund-raising efforts at other African-American churches.

Rinzing Wangdi, India`s consul general in Houston, said the response to the earthquake victim`s needs has been gratifying -- and more help is needed.

``Think of India as a nation, India as a family, India as a philosophy,`` he said. ``The motherland is the cord that binds our sense of family. I hope we respond in a kind way. We will feel not as Indians or Americans, but as human beings. Let it be a sense of unity.``

P.V. Patel, former president of Gujarati Samaj, said he has friends in the hard-hit area of Ahmedabad.

``They are alive, but their high-rise was flattened,`` he said. ``In India they don`t have property insurance or coverage of any kind. There is no security. They became homeless immediately. This is why the funds are so important.``

Checks may be made to one of two organizations, Pallod said:

· Millennium Festival-ICC (Earthquake). Care of: Indian Consulate, 1990 Post Oak Blvd., Suite 600, Houston TX 77506.

· IDRF, P.O. Box 722370, Houston, TX 77272.

Additional information may be found at www.idrf.org.

A number of national organizations also have made donations to the earthquake effort.

The American Red Cross gave $25,000 to the Indian Red Cross Society to jump-start relief operations.

About $20,000 in relief supplies, including 100 rolls of plastic sheeting and 2,500 blankets, also is being sent, said Russell Hubbard, a Red Cross spokesman.

The International Red Cross gave $1.2 million for blankets, clothing, medical supplies and building materials.

The American Red Cross encourages those wanting to make donations to do so through the International Red Cross at 800-HELP-NOW or over the Internet at www.redcross.org.

Re: mohajir

Good idea. It is heartening (even for cynics) to see all the relief aid coming from all over the world. But the cruel irony is that the world comes together in instances like this but goes back to killing each other as soon as the tragedies pass.

I also hope the Silicon Valley millionaires of Indian origin contribute their fair share too. There is enough wealth there alone to assist most of victims.

Just one observation and I think people won`t mind especially across the border.

In this solemn occasion especially if it were my people, I would be in very much agony.

Seeing the response of Muhajir blaming America, Sadhna sharpening her razors on Pakistan and ubiquitous Latif Chappu.

I don`t think India is a nation where people of one part care about other part.

I initially thought it was only Kashmir. Looks like this illness is very deep.

Any way I will excuse myself at least from this thread where all the Intellectual Brain of South Asia is busy doing this.

Or was it called BRAIN DRAINED.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/29/india.babysurvive/index.html

``In the case of the miracle baby, found cradled in his mother`s arms and covered in her blood, doctors said the warmth of his mother`s body helped him survive three days in the ruins of a collapsed building in Bhuj`s Kansara Market....``

sadna #57

``Yes I am pessimistic too. 20,000 people are dead, many more are dying, many lakhs are homeless and Pakistanis are crying about THEIR hurt. Take a hike.``

There was nothing malicious intended in my post... i don`t know why you read it the way you did... Perhaps you are angry and grieved over the loss of so many lives... i do understand your anger and empathize with your grief. No Pakistani is crying about THEIR hurt... i only see noble and well meaning sentiments on this forum. This isn`t the time to engage in cheap political rheotric.

Take care!

fairdinkum,krashid
``cheap political rhetoric``
I didnot mean the Pakistanis on this forum or even Pakistanis in general and I realise I didnot make it clear. I meant Musharraf`s statement which certainly qualifies as `cheap political rhetoric`.

btw, talking of rhetoric, what about discussing nuclear holocausts at this time? What about talking of `divine retributions` in #64?

Sadhana

``I once heard a young man screaming at God for letting young children starve until he realized that the starving children were God screaming at him for letting it happen.``

Anonymous, in Farid Esack`s ``On Being a Muslim``