IT Is Not A Magic Wand

As diet and childhood health improves, height increases. Just a couple of days ago the NYTimes described how the increasing height of Japanese is causing problems because things were designed for smaller people. No genetic changes there.

The evidence is similar for the average heights of Americans and Europeans, take a look at the literature.

Moreover, just yesterday, the notion that genes provide a blueprint to the body received a big jolt. The more correct notion is that genes provide a list of parts. How the parts are put together has both genetic and environmental components.

-Arun Gupta

RSaxena #112

Bhai Shakal Acchi Nahin To Baat To Sahi Kar Lia Kur.

English medium Ke Phatte, Is Ka Woh Matlab Nahi Jo Tum Ne Samjha.

Vaisey Bhi Tumhein To Tumhari Samajh Aur Auquat Ke Mutabiq Likhta Hun.

It was a simile, written for someone else.

Re: reply # 109

Sadna,

No wonder India continues to be a poor country if only 15% of funds reaches their intended destinations. In this regard I am reminded of an article I read in ``The Economist`` many years ago. This article traced GNPs of major countries over the last 1000 years. Guess which 2 countries were on top all the way upto the beginning of the Industrial Revolution: China and India in that order. We all must have read about the mythical wealth of India in the past in history books and some of us might have wondered if it was true.

The reason why India became a very poor country became clearer to me when i read an article (i think it was posted in one of the Indian Websites; i will see if i can get the URL next time)by an Englishman in 1920s in an English daily. He was probably one of those enlightened persons who just reported accurately what he saw. This article talked about how India, until British Rule started,exported quality products all over the world.Things cotton,silk,pottery,steel were exported all over the world. These were made by local artisans in rural areas.

So,even in those times we had found a way of generating employment locally. There was no quality control in place and still we produced quality products- something we have never been able to do in modern times.

I believe local empowerment will address the issue of where the funds go: if you empower say a village sarpanch to have a certain amount of funds for development of the village and have some checks and balances in place, he or she is going to cry foul if that amount of fund does not reach the village. Of course we need transparency in everything. For example, the amount of money allocated district wise should be put up on a web-

site for anyone to lookup. All the big kickbacks we hear about will probably cease to happen if big deals (like the bofors) are approved transparently (computer may be useful in this regard). Press has also a very useful role to play here. Few newspapers report on corruption on a regular basis and fewer still have the guts to take on big names (Arun Shourie took on Indira Gandhi during emergency but such courage is rare).

So to the 2 steps needed for developing India (namely,local empowerment and Primary Education) may i add a 3rd: Transparency.

rsridhar

POVERTY OF IDEAS,

One thing is clear in Dr. Hoodhboys writing, a nuclear physist trying national policy discussions is as good as fairy floss pretending to be steel wool. In the good old economics, there is a term called natural advantage, and it is not very hard to find the area of natural advantage for pakistan.

With out the help of any govt or funding agencies, the madrassas have flourished in pakistan. The mums and dads of pakistan, through donations collected in the mosques are funding the jihadists. Funds are also flowing form the muslims all over the world. Jihadic wins feature prominantly in the dawn and jung. A system of shaheeds immortalise the jihadits who `make` it.

Best educational institution in pakistan are the military ones. Polygamy is a system that supports the military adaventures abroad is at the core of the pak system. Pakistani weapons manufacturing capabilities are pretty good. Pakistan is a society naturally predisposed to jihad, the centre piece of islam, and pakistan is created for islam.

Pakistan should forget about IT and all that crap and concentrate on jihad. A country where gaznavis are heroes, jihad and attempts to plunder neighbouring countries should come as second nature. Pakistan should specialise in crime plunder and looting, and there in lies the natural advantage. May be Dr. hoodhboy can help develop some knapsack atom bombs to support the jihadists.

Think original, dont copy the kafirs next door.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/529332.asp
Brazil`s Junkyard Angel
A techie visionary is salvaging computers-and the lives of desperately poor human beings-from the scrapheap
Excerpt:
``... Wanderley is one of thousands of Brazilians who are reaping the benefits of an unusual computer school for the down-and-out. Since 1995, the Center for the Democratization of Computer Science, or CDI in Portuguese, has spawned 208 ``Computer and Citizenship Schools`` in 17 Brazilian states. On any given day, poor youths and adults can be found writing with Word 2000, doodling with Corel Draw, building charts with Excel or surfing the Web. Many of them learn a smattering of the basics and then move on. Some master the finer arts of computer programming. Hundreds have become instructors in new CDI schools.

The school`s 60,000 present and former students are a diverse lot. Many come from favelas in the big cities; some are landless peasants. They include the partially blind, psychiatric patients, prostitutes and prisoners. One village school inspired the Guarani Indians to add new words to their vocabulary: ayu ryrurive, the box that accumulates knowledge. The computer mouse they call anguja, or rat.

The person who set all this in motion is Rodrigo Baggio, CDI`s 31-year-old founder, director and visionary. In his chinos and lace-up suede shoes, a computer bag over one shoulder and a mobile phone clipped to his belt, he looks like any other overachieving techie, but he doesn`t talk like one. ``The computer is more than a machine,`` he says. ``It`s a tool that can turn poor and underprivileged peopleinto true citizens.`` From dorm rooms to Davos, it is fashionable to talk about those on the far side of the digital divide-the underprivileged who have no access to computers and the skills they confer. Baggio has arguably done more about it than anybody else.

The son of a successful IBM executive, Baggio rejected the traditional path of a member of Rio`s elite. As a teenager he volunteered at a home for street kids. In college he quickly grew bored with his studies but nurtured a boyhood passion for computers. He dropped out of Rio`s Federal University in his sophomore year, went to work as a computer consultant and founded Computers for All, a campaign to get companies to donate used computers to poor communities. In 1994 he began teaching computer science part time at Santo Inacio, a classy private school in Rio. Then one day a volunteer in his campaign suggested holding classes in computer basics for poor kids in Dona Marta, a sprawling favela that shared the mountainside with the private school. His friends thought he was crazy-the poor need food, not technology, they told him-but Baggio was undeterred. He persuaded the big clothing store C&A to pony up five personal computers based on the 386 chip, the latest model at the time. The Roman Catholic Church offered a classroom, a local community organization was put in charge of operations, and Baggio climbed the steep hill three days a week to give lessons. By March 1995, the first class had graduated. Six students agreed to stay on as teachers. Baggio called a press conference to announce the new school. To his surprise, radio and TV crews and reporters from 11 local newspapers showed up.

Once word was out, community groups from other poor neighborhoods began to seek out Baggio. A far cry from the paternalistic handouts that characterize many government-run programs for the poor, each CDI school is run locally and is even allowed to charge modest tuition. This formula frees Baggio to devote himself to what he does best: persuading corporations to donate equipment and funds. He has enlisted Xerox, Swiss cosmetics giant Avina and the World Bank as CDI`s ``partners`` (he doesn`t like to call them sponsors). The Brazilian government development bank BNDES kicked in $425,000 last year. Bill Gates has given $4.5 million worth of Microsoft software. In 1999 Baggio signed a deal with IBM, a former client, in which Big Blue donates obsolete computers it would otherwise discard. ``The First World`s technological junk is treasure for us,`` he says. ....``
(end excerpt)

Arun#113

I always found the topic of nature Vs nurture you raised interesting from purely an academic point of view. If you remember, I suggested some time back that while the nature ie. genes might dictate a ``quota`` of a particular human attribute, it is nurture that plays a pivotol role in determining how much of that quota is actually realised. To give an example, the information regarding the maxm height of a person may be coded in genes. However the height that he would actually attain may be determined by the quality of nourishment that he receives. Thus the observation that the avg height of Japanese increased with respect to Americans in last century owing to the availability of quality nutrition can be explained. The assumption in this theory is that the nature and nurture act independently of each other regarding their impact. In other words this is a decoupled model where the effects of nature are decoupled with that of nurture. A possibility of interaction between the two factors can not be denied. I do not know if any such research has been carried out to establish the coupling between these factors. If Shankar is listening there is an excellent research problem for him:

Take few cases of monozygotic twins. They can be twin rats etc but must have come out by the mitotic division of a single zygote and not different ones. This is to ensure they have an exact replica of genes. Now rear these rats separately, providing them different quality of nourishment and record the various physical attributes. Such experiments can be conducted on a number of such pairs to establish statistical correlations. Whatever difference is found in their physical attributes must be because of their nourishment. This way we can isolate the relative contribution of nurture in determining physical attributes.

PS I forgot. A control group should also be taken to validate the findings.

Re: Krashid

I should`ve known...the concept of sarcasm is alien to you. By the way, which park are you living in now?

RSaxena #119

Abe Sub Mil Kur Jaan Se Maar Dein Gey.

Insaan Bun.

Pankaj,

The ``nature vs nurture`` debate is a perpetual argument among experts. BOTH factors play a role. Now which is a more important role? That issue remains unresolved. From a purely research point of view, studies of a cloned human beings would answer a lot of questions. However,IMO, before a human being is cloned, several ethical hurdles should be addressed by society. Unfortunately, the cat is out of the bag, & sooner or later someone somewhere is going to clone humans before those ethical questions are answered. ABC World News Tonight had a beautiful piece on the same subject last night.

Researchers eagerly seek out monozygotic twins separated at birth & reared in different environments. As far as mental illness is concerned, there is no doubt that ``nature`` plays a pivotal role. For eg, If one twin is schizophrenic, there is a 90% chance that the other twin will be schizophrenic too. There is a similar high concordance rate in other mental illnesses like drug/alcohol addiction, mood & anxiety disorders etc.

Personality traits have a genetic basis too. For instance, I have a patient who is a Lutheran Priest. Both his wife & he are decent folks, who impart the well established family values & moderate in their ideology (not hell fire & brimstone). Both are as ``normal`` parents as they come & have reared both children the same way. They adopted 2 children (not biologically related) as infants. One child has grown to be a decent, well educated, tax paying citizen & family man. The other child is a true sociopath! He had behavioral problems from day one , absolutely NO concience at all & is currently in prison for armed robbery.

Personally, if a childless couple wants to adopt a child, I think its VITAL they know the background of the biological parents. I`ve witnessed too many horror stories in my practice.

On the other hand, ``nurture`` plays a very important role too. Environmental factors do shape personalities & people`s destinies. There is a consensus of opinion among experts (currently, at least) that a cloned human will not have a destiny identical to the original. There are just too many variables that come into play.

For instance, if a mad scientist ever cloned RSaxena (heaven forbid!); its possible both Saxenas may land up working on Wall St. However, while the original Saxena sells pretzels out of a pushcart on Wall St, the cloned copy could actually be a stockbroker.

I hope I answered your questions. I`ll be happy to answer any more questions. One caveat, though, my experience is 100% clinical, not research based. There is a saying amongst us clinicians ``life doesnt go the way `books` say its supposed to go``. Because there is so much pressure on acamadecians to ``publish`` papers, many research papers should be taken with a grain of salt. Many studies are contradictary results. Sometimes its impossible to differentiate between ``good`` science & ``junk`` science.

Shankar #121 ``For instance, if a mad scientist ever cloned RSaxena (heaven forbid!); its possible both Saxenas may land up working on Wall St. However, while the original Saxena sells pretzels out of a pushcart on Wall St, the cloned copy could actually be a stockbroker.``

RSaxena - I bring this to your attention. Before you shoot off a post casting aspersions on Shankar`s genes, you should realize that this is simply an example to illustrate some scientific point.

shankar #121
`` However, while the original Saxena sells pretzels out of a pushcart on Wall St, the cloned copy could actually be a stockbroker.``

Hey, I know you meant it in lighthearted sense, but just a comment. An honest lawabiding pushcart owner is a `better` social asset than a con artist with a Harvard degree :).

MIT Media Lab in Talks to Export Model to India

By REUTERS

BOSTON (Reuters) - The Massachusetts Institute of Technology`s Media Lab said on Thursday it was talking with officials in India about forming an Asian version of the MIT technology incubator.

Alex Pentland, the Media Lab`s academic head, said India had ``tremendous, tremendous potential in terms of human intellect and human resources.``

``But mostly that`s being utilized looking outward,`` he said, citing Bangalore, India, as a software programming hub for foreign corporations. ``The goal of the program would be to get some of the resource focused on domestic issues.``

The Media Lab, which has developed innovative technology products such as interactive toys and ``wearable computers`` -- computers embedded in clothes -- said an incubator could further spur entrepreneurship and address issues such as literacy and medical care.

A lab in Asia might include countries such as Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, in which case ``you`d have networks of innovation centers that span half the globe,`` Pentland said.

Funding for an Asian Media Lab could amount to $1 billion over 10 years. That sum would far exceed the funding of MIT`s Media Lab, which has an annual budget of $35 million to $40 million.

``Big numbers are being kicked around,`` said Walter Bender, executive director of the Media Lab. ``If you`re going to have an impact on a billion people, that`s a lot of money.``

The eventual project with India would not be known for another year, Bender said. Most of the funding would come from the Indian government and corporations.

Shikhar Ghosh, a native of India and founder of the Boston-area software firm Verilytics Inc., praised the Media Lab initiative.

``The whole Indian software environment used to be about cheap labor,`` he said. ``Now it seems to be moving to harnessing human capital for cutting-edge, complex problems.``

Formed in 1985 on the Cambridge, Massachusetts-based MIT campus, the Media Lab is in the middle of Boston`s high-tech corridor.

Some of the region`s most successful start-up companies have been formed by natives of India.

Gururaj ``Desh`` Deshpande, for example, is chairman of optical networking firm Sycamore Networks Inc. (SCMR.O). At the fledgling stock`s zenith, his shares in the firm were worth several billion dollars.

In May 2000, the Media Lab signed a 10-year collaboration agreement to form Media Lab Europe in Dublin, Ireland. The deal includes sharing intellectual property developed at both locations.

As at MIT, corporate sponsors fund about 90 percent of Media Lab Europe`s annual budget.

More than 170 corporations, including Microsoft Corp. (MSFT.O) and Compaq Computer Corp. (CPQ.N), participate in Media Lab programs at MIT, where they work with faculty, research staff and students.

hi all

Post 125[Shammi]:

I was about to add the link to the article you`ve posted from WSJ. It is indeed very interesting to read about the possibilities and their outcomes.

Re: TAhmed

``I bring this to your attention. Before you shoot off a post casting aspersions on Shankar`s genes, you should realize that this is simply an example to illustrate some scientific point.``

Shankar doesn`t need me to cast aspersions on his genes. He does that well enough on his own. I think the most disgusting thing about the fool is his insecurity..``please be my friend, please be my friend..i`ll say a few patronizing things if you do.``

What I`d like to know is if that`s a genetic trait or just the result of being made fun of as the class idiot in school?

RSaxena:

[Re: TAhmed``I bring this to your attention. Before you shoot off a post casting aspersions on Shankar`s genes, you should realize that this is simply an example to illustrate some scientific point.``

Shankar doesn`t need me to cast aspersions on his genes. He does that well enough on his own. I think the most disgusting thing about the fool is his insecurity..``please be my friend, please be my friend..i`ll say a few patronizing things if you do.``

What I`d like to know is if that`s a genetic trait or just the result of being made fun of as the class idiot in school?]

Juvenile Tantrums ???