What Constitutes Blasphemy?

Re: Eklavya #548

I understand your skepticism. Therefore, I think that Mr. Vajpayee will first verify whether this initiative is mere hogwash or will lead to a measurable and appreciable reduction in violence in Kashmir, before engaging Mr. Musharraf. In any event, it will be months before the results of this initiative (if genuine) begin to take effect. Mr. Musharraf may not have that much time before elections are called again (as ordered by the Supreme Court).Mr. Musharraf is effectively pitting his administration (and the army) against the jehadis. The strength of his resolve will determine the effectiveness of his strategy, and the bitterness/viciousness with which the jehadis will respond.

If, however, Mr. Musharraf`s intent is to play to the galleries (which is possible, but one that I doubt since the stakes are so high) while still sustaining a cross-border jehad, then I think that he also realizes the risks inherent in that strategy. Should he been seen as having failed in reining in jehadis after having publicly declared that to be his intention, he will be leaving the political field open to them after (and IF) he leaves office. The political vacuum that exists in Pakistan now, will leave the emboldened jehadis as the strongest political force. Pakistan`s feeble politicians do not stand a chance against them. Even Mr. Musharraf may not like that.

Adnan 672

I am evading issues? I wrote down my perspective completely!!!!! Now go shove your Imam Abu Hanifa up your rear orifice!

People like you should be taken out and shot for the betterment of the Ummah!

Pakistan Zindabad

Umairr:#540

& fuzair:

But why choose Newsweek to spill out these guts.What is wrong to say all this via PTV or the most-read Urdu press.He seems to be preaching to the converted or as a bright commando keeping the enemy(the western thugs) at bay.

No matter which side we root for,either it is be wishful thinking on our part or the guy is as incompetent as his predecessors.

One thing is for sure,I believe,he is not leaving the chair unless removed by force.This has been the case in the past with every military leader.

One thing that is clear in this android kind of martial law;it has failed to maintain law & order in the country and for the first time the commissioned class is not held in too much high esteem.They are being seen everyday as more corrupt than the civilians.

__________________________________________________

fuzair:It is nice to see your lighter side---for a change.Sticks have been provided to us & are still continuing to be given to us not only to fight fellow muslims but hindus,chinese & russians too.For the last 500 years no one has come out a winner.Even the suppliers of sticks & those occupying ring seats run helter-skelter when the sticks turn out to be boomerangs.These pile-up sticks eventually becomes their biggest nightmare & nemesis.

So whether you are in the ring or outside,when they jump out of ring you better have your alibi an air-tight one.

Beer & pretzels taste the same with or without the kalima.If you feel it makes you sound intelligent,then please listen to yourself more often ad enjoy.When you seek approval & certificate it is then that your confidence in yourself is betrayed.

Those known to be the confident ones do not have to gloat about their prayers(or no-prayers) and similarly one need not buttress their inferiorty complex by talking about such trivial(& innocent)pursuits.

__________________________________________________wassalaam

What constitues blasphemy is generally not understood by emotionally charged muslims. A rumour that so and so has passed derogatory remarks about the Prophet, is enough to see a carnage and everything in sight set ablaze. On the other hand, tolerance that the Prophet taught against many provactions, seems to be lost on muslims.

What have we gained out of these extreme destructive emotions ? Nothing except that our fellow human beings elsewhere see the muslims aquiese to dictators, remain silent when basic human rights are ruthlessly trampled upon and go down without a fight against oppressors. But even a unconfirmed news of purported blasphemy, causes them to take the law in their hands!

If our Prophet was living amongst us in these trying moments of our existence, he would have forgiven those who were targeting his character. Alas, he has left a great religion but his ``ummah`` are going back to the days of ignorance. Muhammad won hearts because of his love for humanity and not because of coercion and terror. Even the Quran preaches tolerance and patience in all adversity and provocation, and calls upon us to fight our enemies only when forced to retaliate in defense.

Muslims will continue to suffer unless a new breed of muslim activists are born who teach tolerence as against violence, who mobilize communities to raise their voice against usurpation of their rights as against supporting illegal regimes who allow extremist an open playing field. Therein lies the challenge. Will anyone form an alliance to arrest the negative drift?

Re: SameerJB #154 [Last paragraph, concluding sentence]

Jb keh tujh bin nahiN ko`ee moujood

phhir yeh haNgama ae Khuda Kiya hai

Mirza AsadAllah Khan Ghalib

Most sincerely yours,

A Gnostic

Jay

Welcome back.

I hear you!! The burning of the newspaper office was grist for the mills of many `liberals` seeking to show that it is only the `uneducated` who pose threat to civility in the name of Islam.

Mujhé Mus`lmanouN sé B`chao

A Gnostic

Madams/Gentlemen:

As my introduction, please don`t be misled by my name. I don`t know a single thing about Islam or, for that matter, about any other religion except what one picks up from the newspaper or the National Geographic`s ``Great Religions of the World``. I am also very busy in my work and, regrettably, can`t read letters on the board. Sorry.

I just read the title of the edutorial and thought that this is a good opportunity to raise these questions. I may be enlightened because I know the calibre of brilliance of participants on the Chowk.

In contemporary Psychology classes and clinical situations an expression or a statement is passed on among twenty odd individuals. This bit of information is passed on from one person to the other, i.e., one person at a time. These are experiments in studying rumour.

At the end of the experimenters find that the resulting statement has not much in common with the starting statement. In fact, sometimes the resultant statement turns into a 180 degree opposite in content and message or meaning.

Now, Muslims consider, I think, their prophet`s action`s and sayings as one of the almost ``formal`` requirements for Muslims. His sayings are called Hadith, and bahaviour, Sunnah.

The Hadiths are attributed to a certain [S`hih] Bukhari, and almost a million [it seems]to Abu Harira. These were collected a few hubdred years after the death of the Prophet. In fact, even the Quran was put together a few years after the death of the Prophet.

In view of the small clinical experiments I mention above, how much credence should one ascribe to these hadiths and the Sunnah? [Please correct wherever I may be wrong. I am just an ignorant, but interested, person. I should be grateful to be corrected.

I was watching a speech [khutba?] by an Islamic leader, Tahir-ul-Qadri of Minhaj-ul-Quran Party describe the Prophet`s powers to describe what the dead in their graves were undergoing. For example he was walking past, with a friend, a couple of graves and he[the Prophet] said to his friend about the person in the first grave that he was undergoing torture because when he used to urinate he would let some drops scatter and fall on his ankles!

Would somebody please throw some light on the authancity of Hadith and Sunnah? I have recently bought a book of Hadiths [mostly by Abu Harira] and every fourth or fifthe is in conflict with another. What should I do?

I have also heard that Quran is the only book in which not a single ``zer,zubr`` has been chabged. It is said to make two points:

1. It is because of this somehow more sacred [cf. Bible, King James Version, Changes in old and New Testament etc., etc.]

2. Therefore, it must not be translated. It shold be allowed to retain its purity so that meanings do not change in translation. [No matter how silly do you look readind a scripture and not understanding a single word of it]. I might mention that God is not unilingual.

In this context any philologist, linguist, an anthropologist will tell you that the ``emphasis`` in reading a written sentence can change its meaning slightly. Let me leave you with one short sentence:

``Where were you?``

Now emphasize the firat word: ``WHERE were you?``

And, ``Where WERE you?``

Further, ``Where were YOU?``

Now start taking two words together and continue,

Please help or else I`ll burn in hellfire.

#541,

Lubna,

I HATE you! You ressurected Jay from the dead!

Counter-predictions: Shammi and Umairr

Like both of you, everyone hopes that your wishes come true. This undoubtedly is the moment for Pakistan to decide which of the two fundamentally different roads to take. Both alternatives are represented on this board.

In a normal situation, an epic struggle should certainly follow. The stakes are that high. I am afraid, however, that nothing of the sort is going to happen. That struggle is taking place in Bangladesh. It will not happen in Pakistan. Pakistan is not Bangladesh.

In any event, the two of you are wishing for two different things. Shammi looks forward to the terrorists cooling it in Kashmir (Shammi, is that what you meant by Musharraf`s first step?-it was not clear what step you were referring to). That will then give India a reason to strengthen Musharraf`s hand, howsoever indirectly. Umairr has no interest in any let up in Kashmir. His interest lies exclusively in what happens in Pakistan. In this context there is nothing for India to do or not to do.

I will make more detailed predictions:

1. Terrorist killings in Kashmir are not going to decrease.

2. There will be NO CONTROL at all of free flow of arms within and across Pakistan.

3. Half-hearted attempts to bar display of arms will be made in Pakistan. Notice the focus on ``display.`` Lethal arms will continue to be available, tranported, and used in the service of religion in Pakistan as before.

4. India will not extend the ceasefire.

5. Pakistanis will blame India for everything.

These sombre predictions follow from a very different view of what Pakistan is all about (or, has become) and Musharraf`s personal character.

I hope I am wrong. I will rejoice if I am wrong. There is only one way I could be off the mark here -- if India extends the ceasefire. If India trusts Musharraf, India will soon be in far greater trouble than ever before. I dont think India would. Besides, what is happening in Pakistan has really nothing to do with India or with Kashmir. What is happening in Pakistan has everything to do with Pakistan. In any case, pakistanis (and the likes of Farzana in India) will blame India anyway no matter what India does or does not do.

So let us see how the future unfolds. As I said, I hope Musharraf has a character different from what I think he does, and an epic struggle follows between the two radically differnt visions of future Pakistan. I hope the more moderate vision wins. I am not keeping my fingers crossed.

Re: Umairr`s post

Even under Gen. Zia, some generals made no bones about their lack of interest in Islam. Gen. Jilani, Nawaz Sharif`s `godfather` in politics, would often stay outside smoking a cigarette when Zia would be inside saying his prayers (with all the other chamchas we excel in producing). Once Jilani`s new ADC sort of half made an indecisive move towards going in to say his prayers along with Zia and entourage and Jilani basically said to him, ``Stick around and keep me company, I know you never liked saying your prayers.`` In the interview, Gen. PM as good as said that he can`t be bothered to say his prayers. In Pakistan that takes guts.

Re: F_K #539

Do I read correctly? Is there a falling out among thieves!!! Are they arguing about whose Islam is more correct!?! Reminds me of what Mr. Justice Munir wrote about Muslims not being able to define what exactly constituted being a Muslim, so scrap this nonsense about creating an Islamic Republic, imosing the Sharia and excommuncating Qadianis.

I suggest we give F_K and Asif big sticks and let them fight it out in the ring. The one left standing at the end gets to proclaim his as being the only `true` Islam. I`ll provide the beer, pretzels and peanuts.

Regards to all.

In response to jay (Reply # 541)
Dear Jay:

Welcome back! You had a long sabbatical, didn’t you. Frontier Post was not a third rate newspaper. It was the voice of the voiceless.

Indeed it was the mob mentality of lawless and mindless people who burnt the press and the offices. Whose loss? The author`s?

I am not wondering at the interpretations of the holy book. I am simply asking for a responsible and sensible use of the Quranic verses. Islam should not begin, end or be judged with one, two, or a few verses only. Quranic verses were revealed in specific time-place contexts. We cannot simply take those verses out of their contexts and apply them anywhere. Moreover, the society in Arabia at the time of Prophet Mohammad was much too different from the kind of society/societies we have in various parts of the globe at present.

The practice of blasphemy is not a decent act. It must not be encouraged whether it is committed by a Muslim, a non-Muslim, or a Kafir (whatever it means).

Making fun of the beard of a Muslim is a violation of an individual’s right to lead a hassle free life. How it could be blasphemy? Your protest is nonetheless well taken.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

CORRECTION # 543

I wrote:

“Abu Sa’id said, “The Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, said, “Allah will show no mercy to those who do not show mercy to others.” (Hadith, 95)

Please read the above as:

“Abu Sa`id said, “The Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, said, “Whoever shows no mercy will be shown no mercy.” (Hadith, 95)

I apologize for my carelessness.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to adnan_672 (Replies # 532 and 537)
Dear Adnan:

You, and Spinzoa, have drawn my attention toward the award of death penalty for blasphemy. I will keep this information in my mind. It is plausible that both of you are right. Thank you both.

Tolerance is necessary for building a peaceful and cohesive society. We cannot expect the people to agree with each other, but we must expect a minimum level of civility in our communication. When I say that religion is a personal thing, I mean that I should have a right to believe in my views without any outside influence/pressure or coercion. This is a right that everyone on the face of this Earth should be able to enjoy. In Pakistan, there are so many different Muslim factions where some factions want to impose their ideas on other people. This is a serious mistake and it must be avoided at all costs.

This bring me back to the topic of blasphemy. Spinzoa suggested that his source of death penalty to two poets is one of (the two) hadith books. What is your source? If it is one of the two hadith books only, then what makes a particular hadith authentic? Even if we take the two books as authentic, why Prophet Mohammad did not show mercy. Please refer to Hadith 95 through 99 in Imam Bukhari’s Book of Muslim Morals and Manners about mercy. Let me quote 95 and 96 only:

“Abu Sa’id said, “The Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, said, “Allah will show no mercy to those who do not show mercy to others.” (Hadith, 95)

“Jarir ibn Abd Allah reported that the Prophet, upon him be peace, said, “Allah will show no mercy to those who do not show mercy to others.”“ (Hadith, 96).

Now, for example, let ask you a few additional questions. Why the protestors did not show mercy to Hazrat Usman? Why the Muslims did not show mercy in the Jang-e-Jamal? Why the army of Yazid did not show mercy to Imam Hussain and his family? Why Abu’l Abbas as-Safah, the first Abbassid, did not show mercy to the Umayyads (I am sure you know the true story of the killing in the Umayyad palace and the feast thereafter). Why Haroon Rashid did not show mercy to the Barmakis (even if they were not at fault; Haroon’s sister was married (without Rukhsati) to one of the Barmaki)?

Aren’t these hard questions?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

I promised myself not to get embroiled in this again, but tahmed321 leaves me no choice.

You flame people for not responding to your quotations from the Quran. You spew vitriol viz. the religious right in Pakistan. You parade your proxy liberal agenda in the guise of Islam.

Your hatred for those whom you think are misled is disgusting. And your consistent shying from issues is a sign of weakness.

May Allah help us all, and forgive the post-modern Munafiqeen.

Salaam