What Constitutes Blasphemy?

krashid#475

aoa

krashid please read the quran once before commenting on it.

here`s the verse from the quran:

Al-Baqara (The Cow)

2:282 O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah. For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.

I hope this will make u realize the scope of ur knowledge

adnan

Spinoza #502

``Shalom``

Are Kia Bilkul Yahudi Ho Gia NaMurad.:-)

Interesting interview of Hafiz Saeed, the head of Lashkar-i-Tayyaba at http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/. He says he agrees with the govts.` current announcement against the display of weapons. However, he disagrees with the ban on the voluntary contributions of individuals towards religious organizations. He also stated that his organization is only involved in jihad against the Indian military in Kashmir. He is not interested in carrying out any kind of jihad inside Pakistan.

Umair #506

Another interesting news.

Basant according to local authorities is Un-Islamic festival in Karachi. And due to THIS reason there is section 144 and prohibition on its celebration.

In Punjab Basant is being celebrated under care of provincial Government and is a PROVINCIAL MATTER.

Heran Hon Ke Dil Ko Roun Ya Peeton Jigr Ko Mein.

PS. Nusrat Fateh Ali shamelessly sang songs in Praise of Ali (perhaps the only controversial Khalifah in Islam)... should Nusrat be declared a Kafir? Should we strip him off of his medals? Burn all his CDs and cassettes?

Asif Naqshbandi Sahib,

You seem to be very interested in what ``madhhab`` [i think you mean mazhab] one belongs to... are you talking about which ``sect`` one belongs to?

What if one doesn`t belong to your version of Sunni orthodoxy?

Are those who do not agree with sunni orthodoxy all Kafirs?

What do you think of Shias and Ismalis and wahabis and Alavis etc. etc. etc.?

Are they all kafris?

You also seem to refer to sufis and sufism in your posts... did you know that most sufis in Pakistan (in fact all over the world) were/are devout followers of Ali? Shah Baz Qalandar, Shah Sahib (Shah Abdul Latif Bhatai), Shams Tabreez, Baba Bullay Shah, Data Sahib etc. etc. etc. Were they all kafirs?

Barister Amir,

What are your views about Ameerulmomineen Mooaviyah and Ameer-ul-momineed Yazid RaziAllahTa`la-unham (the fifht & sixth Khalif of Islam respectively)?

Should we look for somebody who resembles Yazid in character to take on the role of khalifah in Pakistan?

FARANGI_KUSH #485

“WE have been `tolerant` here of blasephemous material posted by so many so-called advanced and westernised nincompoops and carried out extensive autopsies under the guise of [this is a laugh] ``freedom of expression``.
Why not let Barrister Sahib present his arguments.

Let us give him an opportunity to enter the trash-bin of the hard-disc where he might see his ``alter-ego`` Solitude.”
Dear brother,
Thanks for agreeing with me re Barrister Amir. Yes, we have been ‘tolerant’ of blasphemous material posted on this forum… but we have also made sure that we express our dislike for such extremism… at least I have… And I find Barrister Sahib as blasphemous (if not more) as perhaps Solitude.

I will write a detailed response to his “invitation to khalifah” and about democracy in Islam later… Perhaps, you should write something on this… what do you think of Barrister sahib’s views on establishing a khalifah and declaring democracy “haram” ?

In response to Farangi_Kush (Reply # 512)
Dear Sir:

I have already informed you that I don`t appreciate your writing style and content of your posts. You also negatively twist things to your liking and to suit your own agenda. Please identify my post where I ``proudly`` announced that I have not read Maulana Maudoodi. I am 100 percent confident that I never ``proudly`` made that announcement.

Sir, since I am not convinced that you understand the mores of scholarly debate, I decline to answer your questions.

Let me inform you that my perception of you is not based on only one or two posts. Finally, I have written you this post reluctantly and I have some sense of the way you are likely to respond.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to Asif Naqshbandi (Reply # 501)
Dear Asif:

In my Reply # 496, I wrote: “Let us not unnecessarily complicate Islam. Let us show by our actions that Muslims are good people. A lot of things will automatically change.” In response, you ask: “please define to me what is ``good`` in your view?”

I am sure you are not asking for a dictionary definition of “good” or “bad.” In real world situations, the word good may be used and defined in a relative sense. For example, most Muslims may not be able to define good/goodness unless it seen in light of the teachings of Quran and Sunnah, while most Jews, Christians, or Hindu may use their religious books and teachings. In my view, something is in essence “good” that is universally agreed by all sane and thinking people.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

sattar2 Thanks for pointing out Surah 2:253 which indicates there can be some kind of differences between prophets. However, while granting you this point, I should add that this is of course just a side issue. The main issue is: can there be prophets after the Holy Prophet. I believe that is not the case and the Holy Prophet is the final prophet.

I base this on Surah 33:40 which indicates how the Holy Prophet was ``...the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets.`` I do not believe there is anything in the Quran that qualifies this statement.

Barrister Amir #487/489 On the previous thread (``An eyewitness account of death, horror and misery``) I had brought to your attention that you were in violation of the Quran when you implied knowledge of Allah`s intentions in pretending to understand the reason behind Turkey`s earthquake. You had invited me to show you verses to support the basis for my accusation. I provided you verses at length in two different posts on that thread (including one where the Allah asks who can be more wicked than one who claims to have received inspiration when he has received none). It has been a week since I brought those Quranic verses to your attention. You have chosen to ignore them, and simply changed to this thread to continue spreading your evil messages and lies. As a muslim, I can only warn you of what is in store for those who do not believe in the words of Allah.

As for your contention here that ``democracy is haram`` - yes it is, for followers of the devil like you. Let me now speak as a Pakistani: You rascals smell blood and dream of taking over Pakistan - dream on. Even Zia, compared to whose ruthlessness and cold-bloodedness you are nothing, could do no more than set back Pakistan by ten years. One platoon of disciplined soldiers can send all your devilish lashkars that romp about the countryside, waving Kalashnikovs and stirring dust, scattering like garbage in the wind. You can only commit acts of terrorism, never fight like men.

Fairdinkum #479

Democracy is Haram in Islam.

Bhai, Sochta To Mein Bhi yehi Hun.

Pur Kia Karun. Maulana Mowdudi Ne Marwa Dia.

Farangi Kush #

I apologize to you for all the ill thoughts I am spreading on this board.

After reading your posts my eyes opened.

Before this I used to believe that I am answerable to God.

But now I realize you people have taken the Islam on contract from God.

Again I apologize.

Particularly if I have Asif .N etc providing me the necessary relief on the day of judgement through the intermediaries both current and through them directly the prophet PBUH. I have nothing to worry about. (Akhir Kalma Parh Rakha Hai Hum Ne Bhi. Ziada se ziada do teen saal jahannum me Kaat len gen Phir to Jannat Ho Gi Hooren Hon Gi Aur Hum. Khirki Se Mazloum Shankar Jese Acche Aadmi Ko Sholon Me Dekh Kar Kaleja Kut Jaye Ga)

Me the fool. I was so much afraid of God in my daily dealings and dealing with people. I forgot even there (Wahan) the method of working is like Governement of Pakistan.

Now what I have to do to come in your good book.

A good article by Ghazi Salahuddin in today`s ``The News``.

Life with the Taliban

Ghazi Salahuddin

What does it mean when the liberal commentators agonise over what they see as the Talibanisation of this country? Are they crying wolf or is there a serious threat that the shadows of the present dispensation in Afghanistan would darken and lengthen across the Indus plain, taking the route of some invading armies of a distant past? These questions have somehow become very urgent and there are a number of anguished warnings about the rising tide of religious extremism and intolerance. At the same time, it has been argued that the likes of the Taliban can never prevail in Pakistan because of the in-built defences of its relatively modern and moderate society. There is that apparently valid argument that in no electoral exercise have the religious parties been able to demonstrate any notable popular support.

Indeed, Chief Executive General Pervez Musharraf has said it again and again that Pakistan is a moderate Islamic country, obviously to counter the impression that religious fundamentalism has risen during his administration. It is also a fact that his initial projection was that of a liberal person, though that image of him holding two Pekinese in his arms now seems as dated as the official publications of an ousted regime. What is really disturbing is that in spite of these assurances and gestures, there is ample evidence to show that religious extremists are gaining strength and at times it seems that the present administration is beholden to these radical and intolerant elements.

What is important here is the overall drift and not the contention that the extremists are not likely to take over in a short time. Yes, it is not easy to imagine that the Afghan scenario can be re-enacted in Pakistan, though some over-emotional liberals are too scared to accept this assertion. But if the sense of direction is not right, we can easily get lost in the wilderness. After all, there was a time not so long ago when the girl students of Kabul University could wear skirts. And we have seen how social conflicts that are injected with extremism and intolerance can lead to major upheavals.

Interior Minister Moinuddin Haider was in Afghanistan last week and his visit to the war-torn and socially ravaged country should serve as another reminder of our uneasy and inherently guilt-ridden relations with the Taliban. Considering the fact that Pakistan is generally seen as the Taliban`s guide and philosopher, the fact that the interior minister had taken with him a list of 60 people who are believed to be involved in sectarian killings in Pakistan and who have taken refuge in Afghanistan is itself very instructive. The Taliban government refused to sign an extradition treaty with Pakistan. However, it did promise to help Pakistan recover the fugitives it wants.

In short, the interior minister returned empty handed. At the same time, the kinship that exists between the thrust of the Taliban and sectarian killings in the country is fully certified. A recent increase in the frequency of sectarian killings is one of the many indications of which way the wind is blowing. In the fourth incident of a sectarian nature in Karachi in about three weeks, two persons were shot dead by unidentified persons on Friday outside a mosque-cum-imambargah. Combined with the show of force by extremist organisations and the fervour for jihad in the context of the freedom struggle in the Indian-held Kahsmir, sectarian terrorism would tend to reduce the impact of General Musharraf`s statement, in his Al-Ahram interview, that ``Pakistan is not an extremist country of religious fanaticism``.

Why the liberals are worried is because they can easily recognise violence and extremism as obstacles in Pakistan`s progress in both economic and social sectors. And their distress is enhanced by the feeling that the government is not taking any resolute measures to deal with these trends. On the other hand, there are occasions when the extremists seem to be in a commanding position. They can, for instance, make the chief executive retract his promise to amend the procedure of registering cases under the blasphemy law. That this promise was made at a human rights convention sponsored by the government itself is also significant. More recently, the threat of a religious group to march on Islamabad was met with a kind of surrender, with a pledge that the demands of the group for the enforcement of religious law would be considered with sympathy.

To be able to have an objective assessment of the direction in which our society is moving, we should look at some relevant indicators. There are the incidents of sectarian terrorism but more fearful are the passions that are occasionally excited and the loss of authority that we witness in their wake. If you look at the entire issue of the publication of that blasphemous letter in The Frontier Post in Peshawar, you will see how, if only for a short time, the extremists can drive the law enforcement agencies out of the arena. It had happened in Karachi just a few days ago and also in May last year when a prominent religious leader was assassinated. Then, the mob had totally destroyed the offices of The Business Recorder in a situation which could easily be foreseen.

This overall environment of intolerance, with its seeds in the extremism of our religious groups, is bound to accelerate social disequilibrium and such factors as growing poverty and unemployment will surely add to our collective derelictions. Even when these dire prognostications can be avoided, the prospect of staying where we are is also forbidding because extremism has suppressed the creativity of our people in an intellectual and cultural context. The critics who do not subscribe to the dread that is expressed by the liberal opinion should at least be able to look at the present state of the Pakistani society and judge for themselves the relative strengths of various segments and institutions in the face of intolerance and fanaticism. In some ways, the decline of our national institutions -- and there was this focus, once again, on the judiciary after The Sunday Times story -- has a symbiotic relationship with the constant assault on liberal and democratic ideas.

One measure of what is happening to us is Pakistan`s international image. Unfortunately, one observer after another makes the same assessment about the ascendancy of extremist and orthodox passions in our polity. Their projections would have been more alarming but many of them are mindful of the liberal protestations of General Musharraf, though nobody knows if his initial stance is still valid or not. We cannot reject these assessments without their rational and academic analyses. In fact, what is happening to us had been forecast by some serious observers. Hence, we should be careful about dealing with formulations that ostensibly are the result of intensive research and observation.

Recently, we have had some quotations from a study sponsored by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) of the United States, titled: ``Global Trends 2015``. There is the obvious inference that Pakistan would not easily recover from decades of economic and political mismanagement, divisive politics, lawlessness, corruption and ethnic friction. There is also the scary thought that the central government`s control may be restricted to ``the Punjab heartland and the economic hub of Karachi``. But the point more relevant to the subject of this column is that ``further domestic disarray will benefit Islamic political activists who may significantly increase their role in national politics and alter the make-up and cohesion of the military, once Pakistan`s most capable institution``.

P.S. Despite importing wheat, Pakistan provides flour to Afghanistan and, in return, they shave off the heads of Pakistani soccer players, refuse to handover alleged terrorists involved in sectarian violence. Here is a recent example of Khilafat in practice. In the light of Afghanistan experience, pick the most suitable person in Pakistan to be Khalifah. Qazi Hussain Ahmad of JI, Mufti Saeed of LeT, Maulana shamzai of Banori Town Madrassah, Maulana Azam Tariq of SSP, Osama Bin Laden of Hashemite clan or Pakistan`s most wanted-Riaz Basra. They all consider democracy Haram?

RSaxena #490

Your foolishness knows no bound.

Why have you made atomic bomb?

ahmadb:#499

So answer again.If you can spot neem-mullahs,then have you come across any full-mullahs.Are you a neem or full of anything.

I do not want to be a nice person.No need to act so patronising.Which religious writer/speaker has impressed you most.I know you proudly announced having never read the most influential scholar of recent times Maulana Maudoodi.Are you capable of commending anyone but Marx?--Are you still waiting for his second coming?Is that still your religion.

Acting polite or lovey-dovey won`t take you too far bahmad.People are smart enough,they can smell the camaflouged odour and see through the charade.

Your comic attempts to feign your support for Islam & muslims is so glaringly evident that one feels sorry for you.

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wassalaam