What Constitutes Blasphemy?

Adnan 672,

I have one thing to say to you...

The only power who can decide who is right and wrong is Allah. By declaring Ahmadis Kafir you are taking that power in your hand, and indeed committing shirk.

I have read more about Islamic Law, then apparently you have, and I can assure you that the significance of the four Madhabs that you follow is on a scale of 1 to 10... ahem 0... If you take up usul ul Fiqh, and measure them up for modern times... they are totally useless!



That you have resorted to lying is just sad... when did I mention Sunni Madhab... I just say that I pray the way Sunnis do ... and push comes to shove I would describe myself as a sunni, but I am Muslim and only a muslim....

I am NOT a sunni! I am NOT a Wahaabi! I am NOT a Shia! I am NOT an Ahmadi!

I am simply a Pakistani, and a Muslim!

As far as my view being correct or not, kindly show me where in the Quran it says, that anyone who interprets the Khatim ul Nabiyeen verse differently is not a Muslim?

You are a FOOL, the cause of downfall of Islam, the reason why Muslims are in the pits today, you are the decadence of the Muslim Society, you are the reason why Pakistan is not progressing, you are the reason why we are held in severe contempt all around the world... You are epitome of everything that is wrong with Pakistan, and the Muslim World.. you are the emblem of the ideals of Abu Jahl cloaked in the veil of Islam, and the name of the Prophet... YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ISLAM.

Yasser Hamdani

Adnan 672,

I have one thing to say to you...

The only power who can decide who is right and wrong is Allah. By declaring Ahmadis Kafir you are taking that power in your hand, and indeed committing shirk.

I have read more about Islamic Law, then apparently you have, and I can assure you that the significance of the four Madhabs that you follow is on a scale of 1 to 10... ahem 0... If you take up usul ul Fiqh, and measure them up for modern times... they are totally useless!



That you have resorted to lying is just sad... when did I mention Sunni Madhab... I just say that I pray the way Sunnis do ... and push comes to shove I would describe myself as a sunni, but I am Muslim and only a muslim....

I am NOT a sunni! I am NOT a Wahaabi! I am NOT a Shia! I am NOT an Ahmadi!

I am simply a Pakistani, and a Muslim!

As far as my view being correct or not, kindly show me where in the Quran it says, that anyone who interprets the Khatim ul Nabiyeen verse differently is not a Muslim?

You are a FOOL, the cause of downfall of Islam, the reason why Muslims are in the pits today, you are the decadence of the Muslim Society, you are the reason why Pakistan is not progressing, you are the reason why we are held in severe contempt all around the world... You are epitome of everything that is wrong with Pakistan, and the Muslim World.. you are the emblem of the ideals of Abu Jahl cloaked in the veil of Islam, and the name of the Prophet... YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ISLAM.

Yasser Hamdani

Indeed, I begin to wonder how precarious, and unstable Mr Jinnah`s position must have been. The wise words of Mr Nehru come to mind ...

``Mr M A Jinnah was more advanced than most of his colleagues in the Muslim League. He indeed stood head and shoulders above them. He was their leader, but he could only keep them together by becoming himself a prisoner to their reactionary ideologies``

Discovery of India: Jawaharlal Nehru

The more I read about fools like Adnan 672 the more I am convinced that until this nation gets huge shaking and some jootian ... Pakistan is going no where.

Pakistan Zindabad

adnan:(all your posts)

Please keep writing (& this is for Mr.Naqshbandi too,despite my abhorrence for his basic premises).This keeps the discussion focussed on Islam,muslims & Pakistan WITHIN the solid anchor of BELIEF.

The secular/liberals masquerading here as full-mullahs must be exposed at every nook and corner of the chowk.Such infilterators have been pointed out to us as munafiqueen.Is it not strange that these same terrorists were at the forefront of every `freedom movement` destroying public property and harrassing everyone who dared to challenge socialism/communism.Does anyone have a clue where the oxford(good madressah?) `educated` Tariq Ali is now.The darling of that rag TIME.

And Usaama a terrorist?

Please ignore them.They are just licking their wounds.Find some salt & pepper and do not let them find respite & solace anywhere in the world.Their father country now in ruins,let them live long enough to see their academic masters land witness the gestation period of the rest of the ``theories``.

Fanatical,Fundamentalist Islam is on the rise & so are other Ibrahimi religions.I challenge them to deny this FACT.These fence sitters will be ``born-again`` once their massas stop screwing them around.

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Bring more avowed,proud,flaunting muslims on board.

Let specious esoteric matters be discussed by those who have spent a life-time in this endeavour and have already covered all the bases.There is so much material available & so many sites that one has to choose a vantage point unless there is a compelling reason to change course.The beauty is:All the signs point to kaaba and all the roads lead to mecca.

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wassalaam

Re: adnan

``As for ur Islam if u do not beleive in one single verse then u are not a muslim, I will happily meet my Allah with this declaration.``

Is there anything we can do to expedite your meeting with Allah?

dear fellow muslims i am not a mullah but a qualified barrister-at-law.

i am convinced by the islamic ideology.

not because of hocus pocus blind faith.

but through the intelectual strength of the islamic belief.

which is 100% provable.

the basis of islamic beleif is definite and thereby whatever Allah commands us to to do.

whether we are rich or poor.

old or young. we are obliged to do.

as we are the creation of Allah.

and the most enlightend of mankind is he or she who understands ones reason d`etre on this earth!...

secondly.

some have raised specuation of fundamentalism.

a fundamentalist is one who follows a fundamentalist thought.

hence benazir is a fundamentalist.

she beleives in secularism.

tony blair and bill clintonand other western powers are fundamentalists!!! they believe in secularism.

and are willing to kill and force people to accept it !.

the independant newspaper of london reported one week after the islamic movements in algeria won over 80% of the vote.

and the french governemtn told the military to take over and prevent islamasists coming into power.

``sometimes you have to use undemocractic means to defend democractic principles``.

to tell me why are such fundamentalists getting away ????

why is american fundamentalism on contraining and causing hardship on muslims of afghanistan not being apposed by the muslims leaders ????

why are muslims ruled by secular fundamentalists who reject islamic law and adhere and support non islamic directives which have inslaved pakistan year by year ????

it is time we as muslims. reject the fundaments of secularism

and the humilation our subjugation to western secular fundamentalists powers have enforced upon us.

and embrace the peace and tranquility of the islamic system.

which will bring justice one more to the earth.

for more info visit www.khilafah.com.pk

look how ,

YLH is not confused ,he is a visionary. At Rutgers he has even coined a new word:fundocide. The days of mullahs threatening the lives of pakistan are over. People like rsaxena ,naqshbandi, and other fundos should be silenced in an effective. We must relegate them to the fringes of society. YLH is a hothead and a fool sometimes but his ideas are well formed. I believe Islam is like a cancer which must be prevented from infecting the govt. Ahmadis are true muslims not fanatics like Rsaxena. The writing is on the wall fols:Islam is out, secularism is in.

FUNDOCIDE SOCIAL OR OTHERWISE

dear fellow muslims.

democracy is catorgorically haram.

and i have substantiated it with the evidences citied below.

sadly none of you have reflected upon the basis of this evidences.

but rather resorted to libelous insults.

let us discuss on a rational and intelectual basis, and if you claim democracy is allowed in islam provide your substantiated proof. Further desist from insults and degenerative behaviour.

democracy.

is derived from a greek word.

demos cratus.

this means people power.

ie people define what is good and bad.

however in islam Allah is sovereign.

and defines what is good and bad alone.

there is a clear distinction between democracy (where people choose the laws based upon there whims and desires)

and electing a khalif and/or his accountability

as muslims, we are obliged to conform to the sharia.

Allah says in quran

``the rule is for none but Allah``

however we are given the right to choose the best person to lead the ummah.

hence we have the right to elect and give bayah (allegiance) to the khailfah.

further there are mechanisms in the ruling system of islam to account the ruler.

to insure he implements islam only. if he implemnets non islamic laws then he is adivised. if he pesists he is removed .

your brother in islam

Ahmer Sajid

Barrister-at-Law

for more info please visit

www.khilafah.com.pk

fairdinkum:

I agree with your views about Barrister Amir.

BUT,BUT,BUT----

WE have been `tolerant` here of blasephemous material posted by so many so-called advanced and westernised nincompoops and carried out extensive autopsies under the guise of [this is a laugh] ``freedom of expression``.

Why not let Barrister Sahib present his arguments.

Let us give him an opportunity to enter the trash-bin of the hard-disc where he might see his ``alter-ego`` Solitude.

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wassalaam

bahmad:#477

When you point out neem-mullahs you must be knowing/read about a lot of full mullahs.Please give their names.

And what about neem-scientists,neem-economists,neem--whatevers?Is Henry Kissinger a neem or full? Does his Nobel Peace prize make him a champion oh human rights or did his knowledge abandon his brains at times.

Anybody and I mean anybody on Chowk giving opinions here on Islam are at least not claiming to be a mullah or quoting any mullah(a worst `crime`).So those who consider themselves experts(mullahs)on ``Masters`` of democracy,human rights,and western-theories should loosen their grip on such monopolies-----especially when they are the greatest transgressors of these over the last two centuries.

The secular/liberal is too transparent a cover for the ``progressives``(Remember this code-word?)

P.S:If somebone is practising religious kind and flaunts it he/she is not neccesarily taliban(& nothing wrong with that either---no need to be apolegetic for that by anyone.Their country,their business).If the Islam bashers see fornication or drunkardness as a sign of their own `progress` & `humanity` then all the more `power` to them....just do not claim to be muslim.

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wassalaam

Dear bilal ahmad sahib,

you say that it is neem-mullah`s which people on chowk are against not real mullahs. excuse me, but having interacted on this forum for a while i have seen people of the calibre of Imam Al-Ghazzali, Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifa, Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan etc. brandished as fanatics and mullahs! If these people are not the experts on Islam then pray tell who is? Jinnah sahib (we respect him for his efforts in creating pakistan but he is not a religious authority!! ditto allamah iqbal sahib; btw, in the 1940s the main religious supporters of the Muslim League were the Barelvi ulama; people like krashid`s beloved mardoodi were fiercely anti-pakistan and the deobandis said kafir-e-azam not the Barelvi Sunnis.) Itaturk? !! The neem-mullahs surely are those who say they know better than those who have devoted their lives to the study of the qur`an and hadith? would you let a person who has read a textbook on surgery operate on you? But you are willing to take your islam from such ignoramuses when it is what will determine your life in this world and the world to come. BTE, I am not attacking you personally--you are one of the few people i genuinely like on chowk despite our differences--but the thought-pattern you represent.

I repeat, if the Imams of the Madhhabs and the ulama who spend 14 years studying islam are not the experts on it, who are?!!

I swear Hamza Yusuf alone knows more about Islam than all the PhDs and MBAs etc on this forum put together!

Dear bilal ahmad sahib,

you say that it is neem-mullah`s which people on chowk are against not real mullahs. excuse me, but having interacted on this forum for a while i have seen people of the calibre of Imam Al-Ghazzali, Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifa, Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan etc. brandished as fanatics and mullahs! If these people are not the experts on Islam then pray tell who is? Jinnah sahib (we respect him for his efforts in creating pakistan but he is not a religious authority!! ditto allamah iqbal sahib; btw, in the 1940s the main religious supporters of the Muslim League were the Barelvi ulama; people like krashid`s beloved mardoodi were fiercely anti-pakistan and the deobandis said kafir-e-azam not the Barelvi Sunnis.) Itaturk? !! The neem-mullahs surely are those who say they know better than those who have devoted their lives to the study of the qur`an and hadith? would you let a person who has read a textbook on surgery operate on you? But you are willing to take your islam from such ignoramuses when it is what will determine your life in this world and the world to come. BTE, I am not attacking you personally--you are one of the few people i genuinely like on chowk despite our differences--but the thought-pattern you represent.

I repeat, if the Imams of the Madhhabs and the ulama who spend 14 years studying islam are not the experts on it, who are?!!

Adnan_672 # 473

I agree with you. People at Chowk especially Hindus from across the border have started judging us, the Muslims, by the character of Christians, Quadianis who use Muslim Names and call themselves ``Proud Muslims``, and Liberal apes jumping from tree to tree. I can bet one million dollars if God-forbidds, Pakistan becomes s secular state like India, these very liberals will becoms die-hard Islamists.

In response to Fairdinkum (Reply #: 478)
Dear Fairdinkum:

Your statement: I think it is ``Neem mullah khatra-e-emaan``

My Reply: I agree. Thanks for the correction. And, the word, ``emaan`` signifies the power of the proverb too.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Mr. Adnan,

What can be more ignorant, shallow, and hilarious than Barister sahib`s statement:

``Democracy is haram in Islam.``

Do you think anyone can have ``dialogue`` with a person/group of people who believe that ``democracy is haram.`` ?

Bilal,

I think it is ``Neem mullah khatra-e-emaan``

Barister sahib,
You are a perfect example of ``Neem mullah khatra-e-emaan.``

Your say:

``Democracy is haram``

Please refrain from spreading mis-information on this forum.. you might get away with this rubbish in Binnori town mosque, but this is chowk froum...be a little more prudent and careful in your rhetoric here... or take you ``chabri`` elsewhere.