What Constitutes Blasphemy?

Response to Bilal Ahmad #681

Thanks for your insights on Baluchistan. And I am glad to know that there are no separatist sentiments in B`stan at present. I have no desire to see Pakistan breaking up further. However what you have highlighted as reasons for B`stan`s integration into Pakistan validate my own recipe for J&K. Provide genuine political representation in Indian mainstream, invest in infrastructure like never before, and within a few generations the insurgency would be forgotten. IMO J&K is not a viable state on its own given meagre indigenous resources and a volatile neighbourhood. Exactly the same for India`s north-east region where Congress` myopic policies have led to J&K like situations.

Have you read Robert Kaplan`s `Balkan Ghosts`? My main take-away from this excellent book was that for any nation burdened with diverse ethnic populations (like India), economic and policitcal integration is sine qua non, such that every community has a stake in status quo.

Cheers.

re: fairdinkum

Shahji, This has been circulating for some time, I am not sure if Nostradamus actually wrote this:

In 1555, Nostradamus wrote:

``Come the millennium, month 12, In the home of greatest power, The village

idiot will come forth to be acclaimed the leader.``

re fairdinkum

``With George W Bush (a man with a less IQ than a 6th grader) being the supreme commander of US military,``

A. President Bush went to Yale and graduated from Harvard Business School. Did you?

`` and a military mind (that idiot black american general) running foreign affairs,``

A. If this is not racism I don`t know what is.

`` and advsing & making decisions on extremely sensitive diplomatic, and political issues around the globe, ``

A. Yes, it is the task of the Secretary of State to do that. Their only concern is and should be the national interest of the US and the protection of her aliies.

``are we heading for full fledged US militrism?``

A. Sadly, no. Secretary Powell and the Administration are quite cautitous. If there was really militarism involved, trust me, Iraq and Libya would have been sent back to the Stone Ages.

Re: YLH #653

Actually, YLH, there is a big difference between the BJP site and the original site that you had pointed us to. The relevant aspects of BJPs divisive agenda can be found in their manifesto (specifically, the first two chapters at their bjp.org website) where they highlight their stance on the temple issue. The manifesto is important because that was what they ran their 1998 campaign on. The site that you pointed us too was far more extremist. Further, even the BJP has been reined-in by having to be a part of a coalition government. Now they are sworn to observe the 1999 National Democratic Alliance agenda (also on the BJP.org website), which is as follows:

National Security - ensuring full combat effectiveness of our armed forces;

National Reconstruction - an end to divisiveness and a moratorium on contentious issues;

Dynamic diplomacy - In service of motherland to obtain for India it`s rightful place in the comity of nations;

Federal harmony - ensuring a partnership of the Centre and States;

Economic Modernization - harnessing technology for rapid, equitable growth;

Secularism - the emotional harmony of all Indians and full protection of minorities;

Social Justice - empowerment of all weaker sections and gender rights;

Probity - transparency of decision-making and corruption-free governance;

The key take aways from the above are - an end to divisiveness and a moratorium on contentious issues; and secularism the emotional harmony of all Indians and full protection of minorities. That is exactly the way it should be -- the self-delusional rantings of a single party have been checked by the coalition members, who have made it absolutely clear that should the BJP move any further on the temple issue, the government will fall. Further, there are other constitutional checks and balances in place as well (in addition to the political ones that I just mentioned) -- should the BJP even so much as try to change the basic election law (adult franchise, joint electorate, etc.) they will face the wrath of an increasingly independent President. However, in India`s system, today constitutional amendments have now become increasingly difficult given various power sharing arrangements.

Re: krashid #686

``let me clearly state that Jews cannot be a friend of Muslim...(Israel) forced local population of Palestine to become refugee(s)``

By your logic, a Christian cannot be a friend of a Jew either (since not all Palestenians are Muslim, some are Christians). How long will we have to put up with this drivel? Please read the Koran carefully, otherwise you have little hope for the day of redemption!

re fuzair 682

``Let me ask you this. If the Mukti Bahini had destroyed the PakArmy, why were Indian troops fighting brigade-strength actions in November 1971?``

A. I never said that the Mukti Bahini destroyed the Pak Army. Any semi-fool would know that such is not the aim of guerilla forces. The real aim is to tie `em up and make Occupation so costly that they decide to quit.

``Why did India feel compelled to invade in December 1971 if the PakArmy was already destroyed?``

A. Please ask the Indian High Commissioner/Ambassador posted in your country of residence. As I said, the Pakistan Occupation Army was hardly targeted to be destroyed. Maybe the Indians were not as foolish as you want to think they are.

``Gen. Niazi`s deployments were idiotic when it came to fighting the Indians because they were aimed at denying the Mukti Bahini any territory that they could control and proclaim as Bangladesh.``

A. Okay, now blame the guy who was put in as head honcho on the basis of his rather commendable credentials during WWII and 1965. Typical defense of the vanquised. It is the leadership otherwise the brave mujahids would have conquered the world...yeah, Saddam said that too.

``Certainly the majority of the Army did not fight as well as it could have in December 1971``

A. No kidding. This was the biggest surrender of a Muslim state`s army in history save that of the Egyptians in Sharm-el-Shaikh in 1973. But don`t be too hard. Immoral wars and atrocities tend to sap down the morale and ability of the best of professional men in uniform.

``... but this was because of appalling higher leadership rather than it having been beaten by the Mukti Bahini. ``

A. Reminds me of the old Rommell quote that victories have many fathers but defeat is an orphan.

But the real question mark becomes, fuzair, that to this date you guys haven`t come to grips with the fact of the fundamental starting point of the war. Face it, after March 26 1971, the Pakistan Army in the erstwhile East Pakistan became an Occupation Force in Bangladesh. No amount of semantics, statistics, and situational analysis changes that, does it? Notwithstanding the tactics of the Indians or the Bangladesh freedom fighters, the very presence of Pakistani troops in Bangladesh was anything but just. Immoral wars often lead to disgrace. Ask the Russians in Afghanistan. The question the world asks is not whether ``Tiger`` Niazi was a competent general or not, but why he has not yet been held accountable for the atrocities committed under his watch twenty nine years ago?

From BBC

Pakistan changes Kashmir tack

By regional analyst Alexander Evans

Pakistan has signalled a subtle shift in its Kashmir policy, moving away from a position that has held for over 50 years.

Instead of calling for a solution to the Kashmir dispute in full accordance with United Nations resolutions dating from 1948, the stress is now on self-determination. This formula has the potential to be more flexible, as it could be seen to pave the way for repartition of Kashmir, or even independence. The old position only offered two theoretical alternatives - the full accession of Kashmir to either India or Pakistan.

Shift in approach

No longer stressing on implementation of UN resolutions from 1948

Focus now on self-determination for Kashmiris

Hurriyat seen as `true representative` of the people

Reduce role of militants operating out of Pakistan

This new rhetoric from Islamabad also connects with Pakistan`s decision to recognise the separatist All Parties Hurriyat [Freedom] Conference as the `true representatives` of the Kashmiri people, and to agree with any solution that gained their support.

Leading Pakistani analysts accept that there has been a change, even if some claim that only the emphasis has altered. The new position does not abandon the UN resolutions, but emphasises self-determination in addition to giving a prominent role to the Hurriyat. Last week, Pakistan`s military leader General Pervez Musharraf said: ``Any solution on Kashmir has to be in accordance with the wishes of the Kashmiri people.`` Referring to the UN, he said that he did not think it could contribute significantly to the Kashmir dispute unless the main actors decided to let it.

Tensions are said to be emerging between the United Jihad Council, the umbrella group for militant organisations fighting in Kashmir, and the Hurriyat.

Militant leaders are sceptical of Indian overtures on Kashmir, and have criticised Pakistan`s move to recognise the Hurriyat as the ``legitimate representatives`` of the Kashmiri people.

Some major militant groups are not represented on the Hurriyat.

They are also watching General Musharraf closely as he continues to call for Indo-Pakistan talks.

There are a few signs that the Pakistan Government wants to reduce the role of militant groups operating in Kashmir.

Militant slogans on the road to Muzaffarabad have been recently been freshly whitewashed, and General Musharraf`s careful words contrast with defiant statements issued by the militant groups themselves.

Some close to the militants still see possible moves by the Pakistan Government as slow in coming.

They argue that Pakistan will only crack down on militant groups as part of an overall deal on Kashmir - and not before. And they are doubtful that the current process can survive without significant Indian concessions.

Too little, too late?

Pakistan`s new Kashmir policy will be appreciated by the United States, which has been pressing Islamabad to be more flexible. But it may face domestic opposition within Pakistan from opponents concerned that Islamabad may be making too many concessions on the Kashmir issue.

More importantly, it remains to be seen whether this new policy will have much impact on bilateral relations with India. It still leaves Pakistan seeking to overturn the status quo on the ground. While Islamabad recognises the Hurriyat as representatives of Kashmir, Delhi supports the local administration of Farooq Abdullah. And India is still deciding whether to issue travel documents for a group of Hurriyat leaders currently waiting to visit Pakistan. For the past two months the Line of Control separating Indian and Pakistani Kashmir has fallen silent. This is a major improvement and marks a departure from the regular exchanges of artillery and small arms fire heard during the 1990s. It is also a sign of the commitment that exists in Islamabad and New Delhi to improving relations. Whether this little peace can translate into a major settlement-a resolution of the 54 year-old Kashmir dispute-depends on how the two neighbours proceed over the next few months.

Godot #631

Again you are advising us Pakistanis to succumb to the terrorizing policies of big country like India.

Abe Apne Musalman Maan Baap Ki Aulad Hai Na.

If we get afraid of India and succumb like Nepal, Bhutan etc. Do you think we will have a much brighter future with political and economic dominance of India.

Man come out of your fear. Go to mosque and pray to God to give you strength.

BAhmed is talking sense. Our condition demands to invest our efforts correctly. Most important of which is neither to antagonize India for unnecessary reasons, nor to succumb to it out of fear.

Yeh Nesti Kahin Aur Phelao.

Godot Beta#

Ab America Aa Gaye Ho To Apni Pakistan Nationality Ko Bhi Khairbad Keh Do.

Kiyun Keh Tumhari Barhakein Bilkul Indian Paymane Ki Hein.

This cockroach brain of Yasser Arafat. Have you read the history of this man.

The palestinian question will be dead now and there would be no Intifada if there were not people like Yasser Arafat.

His historian suggest his IQ to be above 180 if you know what IQ is. And he is active in this mission since his school days.

Before putting your hand on computer, go back to India and fight for the rights of Muslims instead of first migrating to Pakistan for a better future and now America.

Adnan 672 #649

At least in religious matter, I expect a Muslim to state the truth.

But there is no problem. You are a Jamati. And apart from Ashab Badr all the sins are already pardoned for Jamatis.

Saying this.

BAhmed has given a correct picture.

Abdullah Bin Ubay was very sad because of his dream of Kingship was shattered. And he was A Munafiq. And his son asked the permission to kill him. And there was no chances of any revolt or war like situation. Because by the time his power was non existent even among his tribe because of his anti- Prophet PBUH stance. He not only refused to grant permission to kill him. But when he died prophet PBUH himself prayed his Janaza prayer.

So for the incidences of pardoning of many many hundreds people you don`t follow the example of Prophet PBUH. For an occasional event you want to make it law.

Tuff Hai. Lanati. Zahnmatullilalameen.

Adnan 672#650

You are asking me to clearly state my position.

And asking me which Hadith.

Position on what?

My thinking is you have a position on law of evidence. Why don`t you state it?

I am open to many interpretations on law of evidence, including evidence by two males if they tend to forget or have weak evidence and other evidence like DNA testing etc to be taken as solid evidence. The point is the evidence should be strong and one need not be punished on flimsy grounds. The same with business transaction.

As far as which Hadith of Aisha RZAH I am referring. I think you have to read Bukhari and Muslim to find out.

Adnan 672 #650

Does speaking in a derogatory tone makes you more Muslim or your point more valid.

I asked you a simple question.

1- Do you believe in Hadith of Aisha RZAH?

Then I asked you how you can accept an evidence of a woman without corroboration with another woman or man?

You presented the Ayah regarding evidence is related to business transaction.

I ACCEPTED IT.

Then I asked you. Does it contradict with the Fiqh you believe in.

You are saying I am using circular logic.

No my friend. See mirror. You are saying that law of evidence need to applied on every (fuc--) Muslim woman, but not on Aishah RZAH.

sadna,

Thanks for the link mate! Long time no see...hope all is well!

fairdinkum #688
This might `explain` it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17775-2001Feb16.html

Dear chowkwallahs,

It is no secret that republicans never rally celebrated the end of cold war (conservatives, no matter who they are and where they are at rearly celebrate peace)... but republicans are now in power... are they ready to renew the cold war? With George W Bush (a man with a less IQ than a 6th grader) being the supreme commander of US military, and a military mind (that idiot black american general) running foreign affairs, and advsing & making decisions on extremely sensitive diplomatic, and political issues around the globe, are we heading for full fledged US militrism?

You may find the following news item intersting!

Air strikes on Iraq find cold international response

Full story:

http://www.dawn.com/2001/02/17/

Krashid,

who is ImranSyed? I don`t see any IamranSyed #661... who are you talking to?