What Constitutes Blasphemy?
Chowk P Room January 31, 2001
#1 Posted by Harpreet on January 31, 2001 12:00:44 pm
Not really my area of interest but someone asked what was written and I read this earlier.......
From the ``Guardian``
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4127593,00.html
``Seven face death for letter to paper
Rory McCarthy in Islamabad
Guardian
Wednesday January 31, 2001
Seven journalists face the death penalty for blasphemy after Pakistan`s military regime closed down an English-language newspaper for publishing a ``highly sacrilegious`` reader`s letter.
Hundreds of protesters from a rightwing Islamic party set fire to the printing presses of the Frontier Post in Peshawar yesterday and ransacked the newspaper`s offices.
Monday`s edition of the paper carried a letter which accused the prophet Mohammed of anti-semitism, ``total dishonesty`` and ``unabashed male chauvinism``.
``His hatred for Jews was caused by their refusal to accept him as a prophet because of his low moral character and his lack of knowledge of the scripture and his murderous ways,`` the letter said.
The writer said Mohammed made revelations from God ``in order to satisfy his political or personal agenda or his libido``. The letter, sent by email, was signed only ``BenDZac``.
Police raided the building late on Monday, arrested five staff and issued warrants for two senior editors. The staff are being held under Pakistan`s blasphemy law, which carries a death penalty for those who insult Mohammed.
Peshawar magistrates said the newspaper`s offices would be sealed indefinitely. ``The contents of the letter were highly sacrilegious,`` the court said in a statement.
General Pervez Musharraf, who seized power in late 1999, said his government would not allow the publication of ``such objectionable material``.
The Frontier Post, which was not printed yesterday, published a large apology in rival newspapers. It said that it was the victim of a conspiracy and that it had given a list of suspects` names to police.
``We bluntly claim that the conspiracy sought to close down The Frontier Post, rendering the employees jobless, and to destabilise Pakistan,`` it said. ``The persons apparently involved have been suspended pending inquiry.``
The Post has had a troubled history. There were riots outside its offices in 1988 over a supposedly blasphemous article. In 1999 its owner, Rehmat Shah Afridi, whose papers had been critical of the then government of Nawaz Sharif, was arrested for drug trafficking.
Mr Afridi has been in jail ever since as his case drags through the legal system. His son, Mahmood Afridi, who now runs the paper, is one of the editors wanted by police. ``
From the ``Guardian``
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4127593,00.html
``Seven face death for letter to paper
Rory McCarthy in Islamabad
Guardian
Wednesday January 31, 2001
Seven journalists face the death penalty for blasphemy after Pakistan`s military regime closed down an English-language newspaper for publishing a ``highly sacrilegious`` reader`s letter.
Hundreds of protesters from a rightwing Islamic party set fire to the printing presses of the Frontier Post in Peshawar yesterday and ransacked the newspaper`s offices.
Monday`s edition of the paper carried a letter which accused the prophet Mohammed of anti-semitism, ``total dishonesty`` and ``unabashed male chauvinism``.
``His hatred for Jews was caused by their refusal to accept him as a prophet because of his low moral character and his lack of knowledge of the scripture and his murderous ways,`` the letter said.
The writer said Mohammed made revelations from God ``in order to satisfy his political or personal agenda or his libido``. The letter, sent by email, was signed only ``BenDZac``.
Police raided the building late on Monday, arrested five staff and issued warrants for two senior editors. The staff are being held under Pakistan`s blasphemy law, which carries a death penalty for those who insult Mohammed.
Peshawar magistrates said the newspaper`s offices would be sealed indefinitely. ``The contents of the letter were highly sacrilegious,`` the court said in a statement.
General Pervez Musharraf, who seized power in late 1999, said his government would not allow the publication of ``such objectionable material``.
The Frontier Post, which was not printed yesterday, published a large apology in rival newspapers. It said that it was the victim of a conspiracy and that it had given a list of suspects` names to police.
``We bluntly claim that the conspiracy sought to close down The Frontier Post, rendering the employees jobless, and to destabilise Pakistan,`` it said. ``The persons apparently involved have been suspended pending inquiry.``
The Post has had a troubled history. There were riots outside its offices in 1988 over a supposedly blasphemous article. In 1999 its owner, Rehmat Shah Afridi, whose papers had been critical of the then government of Nawaz Sharif, was arrested for drug trafficking.
Mr Afridi has been in jail ever since as his case drags through the legal system. His son, Mahmood Afridi, who now runs the paper, is one of the editors wanted by police. ``
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#2 Posted by Truth on January 31, 2001 12:00:44 pm
It is time the govts of Pakistan and India took a stand that when an individual says something ``blasphemous``, he insults himself and not the target of his comments.
So, if I say so-and-so is a pile of s * * * and most of the world thinks so-and-so is great, I come across as an idiot. THe right response to ``blasphemy`` is to say ``Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do``. The governments and the peoples of India and Pakistan (and Bangladesh with the Lajja by Taslim Nasreen controversy) should adopt this view.
No idea what the theological position is on blasphemy within Islam.
So, if I say so-and-so is a pile of s * * * and most of the world thinks so-and-so is great, I come across as an idiot. THe right response to ``blasphemy`` is to say ``Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do``. The governments and the peoples of India and Pakistan (and Bangladesh with the Lajja by Taslim Nasreen controversy) should adopt this view.
No idea what the theological position is on blasphemy within Islam.
#3 Posted by fuzair on January 31, 2001 12:07:21 pm
Sad but to be expected in the den of obscurantism that is our Glorious Islamic Republic. Reminds me of the time back in the 1970s when some Jamaati-type students beat up a professor at Faisalabad Agricultural University when he told them in class that Jinnah married a non-Muslim and his family now lived in India.
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Regress Back to Barbarism Derby! First Prize: Paradise! Let me update you on the field as it currently stands. In the race to see who can regress back to the Seventh century the fastest, its Afghanistan in the lead, Iran trying valiantly to catch up but seemingly flagging, Pakistan in third place but gaining, Sudan a distant fourth and Egypt and the rest of the ummah in the pack. Turkey scratched its entry and has decided to enter the ``21st Century Race.``
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Regress Back to Barbarism Derby! First Prize: Paradise! Let me update you on the field as it currently stands. In the race to see who can regress back to the Seventh century the fastest, its Afghanistan in the lead, Iran trying valiantly to catch up but seemingly flagging, Pakistan in third place but gaining, Sudan a distant fourth and Egypt and the rest of the ummah in the pack. Turkey scratched its entry and has decided to enter the ``21st Century Race.``
#4 Posted by scout on January 31, 2001 12:09:31 pm
If Chowk has access to the contents of this ``blasphemous`` letter, could they please publish it, or are they afraid of Mullah hackers cyberbombing the website?
In any case, why can`t we have freedom of the press like other countries? Is our faith in God so weak that we let letters affect us so personally? This is shameful.
These Mullahs and their student jack-sses need to be eliminated from Pakistan in order for Pakistan to get somewhere in this progressing world.
In any case, why can`t we have freedom of the press like other countries? Is our faith in God so weak that we let letters affect us so personally? This is shameful.
These Mullahs and their student jack-sses need to be eliminated from Pakistan in order for Pakistan to get somewhere in this progressing world.
#5 Posted by Chowk Staff on January 31, 2001 12:14:16 pm
Following response by Studebaker is being reposted. Dues to an error this coukld not get published:
There is some responsibility of the paper and its employees particularly those responsible for monitoring ,editing & allowing materials to be published.It certainly ,reflects the philosophy and point of view of the paper ,by condoning such material.No freedom of expression gives total freedom to a person to get his thought published.The owner of the publication reserves that right under best of free press in the most free country.
I have had my views refused to be printed or posted on the internet forum,with much less outlandish claim than blashphemy,sacriligeous and offensive that the letter as reported.Its accepted law above the freedomof speech Lets not mistake this suppression of freedom,or censorship but rather exercising the right of the publication not exerting its right fully responsibly.
#6 Posted by SameerJB on January 31, 2001 12:38:36 pm
I am glad that chowk staff noticed the incident to which hamidm alluded to in a post yesterday. It is another example of mob rule without any consequences. The Frontier Post was actually a voice more in their favor than other English dailies. They were often publishing articles by Usman Khalid and others in favor of Taliban government.
NWFP lost the only English daily with the burning and ransacking their offices and press.
On one side government is trying to access internet to more and more cities and on the other hand such acts go unnoticed. How would government and mobs deal with individuals access to even more ``blasphemous`` material on the web.
What the hell is going on in my country? Why not register a protest in some sane fashion. Who gains, if anything, with such acts? Mulla Omar?
NWFP lost the only English daily with the burning and ransacking their offices and press.
On one side government is trying to access internet to more and more cities and on the other hand such acts go unnoticed. How would government and mobs deal with individuals access to even more ``blasphemous`` material on the web.
What the hell is going on in my country? Why not register a protest in some sane fashion. Who gains, if anything, with such acts? Mulla Omar?
#7 Posted by temporal on January 31, 2001 1:07:27 pm
Yaaro aisa to hota chala aaya hay aur hota rahega. Hum log buhat sadah dil haiN. Short fuse on logic. Emotional. Impulsive.
In one compartment of a train there were four passengers, a young man, a young woman, an old man and an old woman. As the train passed through a tunnel and it was pitch black in the compartment they heard the muted sound of a kiss and the loud sound of a slap.
The young woman thought --- why would they kiss the old woman and get slapped
The old woman thought --- how rude, in my presence!
The old man thought --- the young man kisses here and I get slapped.
And the young man, who had kissed his own hand and slapped the old man smiled.
Here we are in the tunnel. We do not know the details except that ‘’something” was published. Who did it. Was it a malicious act by some disgruntled employee. Or was it part of some grand conspiracy to malign Islam? ISI? No, we are in Pakistan. Damn, it must be RAW.
Put it in perspective. It could not be anything worse than the frothings of Ibn Warraq clones that we have been subjected to here at Chowk. And what is our reaction?
It takes little to set fire. One match stick?
There we go. Gone is the press and buildings. Long live Islam!
And the final irony --- let me see what impact this will have one year from today.
On Pakistan.
On you.
On me.
regards
temporal
In one compartment of a train there were four passengers, a young man, a young woman, an old man and an old woman. As the train passed through a tunnel and it was pitch black in the compartment they heard the muted sound of a kiss and the loud sound of a slap.
The young woman thought --- why would they kiss the old woman and get slapped
The old woman thought --- how rude, in my presence!
The old man thought --- the young man kisses here and I get slapped.
And the young man, who had kissed his own hand and slapped the old man smiled.
Here we are in the tunnel. We do not know the details except that ‘’something” was published. Who did it. Was it a malicious act by some disgruntled employee. Or was it part of some grand conspiracy to malign Islam? ISI? No, we are in Pakistan. Damn, it must be RAW.
Put it in perspective. It could not be anything worse than the frothings of Ibn Warraq clones that we have been subjected to here at Chowk. And what is our reaction?
It takes little to set fire. One match stick?
There we go. Gone is the press and buildings. Long live Islam!
And the final irony --- let me see what impact this will have one year from today.
On Pakistan.
On you.
On me.
regards
temporal
#8 Posted by Godot on January 31, 2001 1:20:44 pm
What constitutes ``blasphemy?``
In my opinion, any religious symbol desecrated is blasphemy.
In my opinion, any religious symbol desecrated is blasphemy.
#9 Posted by farangi_kush on January 31, 2001 1:20:44 pm
Chowk staff:
Please do not exacerbate an already inflammatory issue by reprinting & re-quoting the offensive material.
Studebaker is absolutely right.It is you who will lay the ground rules from now on and will forfeit your right to delete,edit or censor ANY material.
The double standard has to stop.
REMOVE HARPREET`s ``INNOCENT`` LETTER NOW!
P.S:I think something about holocaust,inflammatory enough for jews & seculars/liberals to take note should not be a bad idea to test this out.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
Please do not exacerbate an already inflammatory issue by reprinting & re-quoting the offensive material.
Studebaker is absolutely right.It is you who will lay the ground rules from now on and will forfeit your right to delete,edit or censor ANY material.
The double standard has to stop.
REMOVE HARPREET`s ``INNOCENT`` LETTER NOW!
P.S:I think something about holocaust,inflammatory enough for jews & seculars/liberals to take note should not be a bad idea to test this out.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
#10 Posted by Ras Siddiqui on January 31, 2001 1:23:37 pm
One more time, from the archives....
Blasphemy
Word came in once again to hang
One`s head in shame as a member of
The human family that still stands firmly
Divided by faith, which is okay but not
To accuse, each other of disrespect with
Sentences of death looming
Based on possibly twisted facts or self interest
Backed by laws that need review
On the basis of the religion itself which once
Liberated us from such injustice and ignorance
Christians and us drink from the same well
Of enlightenment as do the Jews
With Hindus we have had much interaction while
Sharing the land of the Indus since our history began
The Bible and the Gita have lived amongst us
Along with the Ahmadi and the Zikri people
Color added from our own cultural paintbrush
But the canvas was and is in the hands of the Creator
Who has taught us much about respect and
The meaning of justice
One helpless Bishop with a gun in his hand
Conduct usually unbecoming for a man of the cloth
Has pulled the trigger and extinguished god`s gift of life
A last act of a desperate crusader for justice or
The parting cry of a human being to be seriously heard
Drawing attention to blasphemy laws as a tool of persecution
Against all believers who don`t walk the same path and become
Verbal targets of accusers and sometimes much more
In the land which today absorbs his blood
And that of many other innocent spirits
Who have chosen to be different.
- Ras H. Siddiqui (5-8-98)
This writing is dedicated to two people. Bishop John Joseph of ``Khushpur`` who killed himself in protest against the current Blasphemy Law in Pakistan and Arif Iqbal Bhatti, a respected lawyer and judge, who was assassinated because he pardoned a Christian boy innocent of the ``Crime``. It is also hoped that the Government of Pakistan will launch a full investigation to rule out any foul play in the matter of Bishop Joseph.
Blasphemy
Word came in once again to hang
One`s head in shame as a member of
The human family that still stands firmly
Divided by faith, which is okay but not
To accuse, each other of disrespect with
Sentences of death looming
Based on possibly twisted facts or self interest
Backed by laws that need review
On the basis of the religion itself which once
Liberated us from such injustice and ignorance
Christians and us drink from the same well
Of enlightenment as do the Jews
With Hindus we have had much interaction while
Sharing the land of the Indus since our history began
The Bible and the Gita have lived amongst us
Along with the Ahmadi and the Zikri people
Color added from our own cultural paintbrush
But the canvas was and is in the hands of the Creator
Who has taught us much about respect and
The meaning of justice
One helpless Bishop with a gun in his hand
Conduct usually unbecoming for a man of the cloth
Has pulled the trigger and extinguished god`s gift of life
A last act of a desperate crusader for justice or
The parting cry of a human being to be seriously heard
Drawing attention to blasphemy laws as a tool of persecution
Against all believers who don`t walk the same path and become
Verbal targets of accusers and sometimes much more
In the land which today absorbs his blood
And that of many other innocent spirits
Who have chosen to be different.
- Ras H. Siddiqui (5-8-98)
This writing is dedicated to two people. Bishop John Joseph of ``Khushpur`` who killed himself in protest against the current Blasphemy Law in Pakistan and Arif Iqbal Bhatti, a respected lawyer and judge, who was assassinated because he pardoned a Christian boy innocent of the ``Crime``. It is also hoped that the Government of Pakistan will launch a full investigation to rule out any foul play in the matter of Bishop Joseph.
#11 Posted by mithuna on January 31, 2001 1:32:00 pm
The actual letter can be found at the following link.
http://x54.deja.com/threadmsg_md.xp?thitnum=11&AN=721574295.1&mhitnum=0&CONTEXT=980965001.1471283228
I didn`t know if Chowk considers it desirable to actually archive the contents of the letter. So I am just providing a link here to the soc.culture.pakistan(SCP) archives on deja.com which has the contents of the letter.
Anyone who`s even slightly familiar with SCP knows that ``Mo`` is one of the more active participants out there. He posted this letter long before I read about it in any other source.
-Mithuna
http://x54.deja.com/threadmsg_md.xp?thitnum=11&AN=721574295.1&mhitnum=0&CONTEXT=980965001.1471283228
I didn`t know if Chowk considers it desirable to actually archive the contents of the letter. So I am just providing a link here to the soc.culture.pakistan(SCP) archives on deja.com which has the contents of the letter.
Anyone who`s even slightly familiar with SCP knows that ``Mo`` is one of the more active participants out there. He posted this letter long before I read about it in any other source.
-Mithuna
#12 Posted by temporal on January 31, 2001 2:08:23 pm
mithuna #11
Thanks for the link. This is not a complete reproduction of the letter. And even if it was, there is no way to authenticate it.
CHOWK STAFF:
You ask, `What Constitutes Blasphemy?`
To give a proper answer we need to have that letter.
Is there someone out there who can fax a copy of the original letter in that paper to Chowk?
rgds,
t
Thanks for the link. This is not a complete reproduction of the letter. And even if it was, there is no way to authenticate it.
CHOWK STAFF:
You ask, `What Constitutes Blasphemy?`
To give a proper answer we need to have that letter.
Is there someone out there who can fax a copy of the original letter in that paper to Chowk?
rgds,
t
#13 Posted by ahmadb on January 31, 2001 3:51:23 pm
The Frontier Post is most likely to revise its liberal policy of the freedom of expression. This is unfortunate. It is also unfortunate that a mob attacked the F. P. Press and burnt it to ashes. Those involved in this mob action must be persecuted; the Government has already taken action against the newspaper and its staff. Is this incident a result of a conspiracy against the newspaper? I don`t know.
During the past two days, I had made several unsuccessful attempts to find the actual letter. Now, having read it (thanks to mithuna; see Reply 18), I feel that there are moments when the freedom of expression clause needs to be balanced with discretion. In saying so, I am not trying to manifest my Muslimness. It is share discretion that I want to emphasize. This particular incident supports my general desire to change the world around me gradually.
What is blasphemy? My dictionaries suggest: (1) the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God; (2) the act of claiming the attributes of deity; (3) irreverence toward something considered sacred or held in high regard. In addition, there is a blasphemy law in Pakistan (whether or not we agree with it). You may form your opinions based on these.
To give the benefit of doubt to the Frontier Post staff, the publication of this letter suggests inadvertent carelessness on their part. I am not opposed to the publication of progressive/liberal material, but I do believe that such letters must be written and/or edited with much care. To those who disagree with me, please send a similar kind of letters against Moses/Jews, Jesus/Christians, Ram/Hindus, and even Mohammad/Muslims for publication in the New York Times, London Times, the Guardian, the BBC, Hindustan Times, The Hindu, and Khaleej Times. And, let me know if they are published.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
P.S. The Frontier Post internet site was closed soon after the incident. Temporal doubts the authenticity of the letter identified by mithuna (Reply # 12).
During the past two days, I had made several unsuccessful attempts to find the actual letter. Now, having read it (thanks to mithuna; see Reply 18), I feel that there are moments when the freedom of expression clause needs to be balanced with discretion. In saying so, I am not trying to manifest my Muslimness. It is share discretion that I want to emphasize. This particular incident supports my general desire to change the world around me gradually.
What is blasphemy? My dictionaries suggest: (1) the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God; (2) the act of claiming the attributes of deity; (3) irreverence toward something considered sacred or held in high regard. In addition, there is a blasphemy law in Pakistan (whether or not we agree with it). You may form your opinions based on these.
To give the benefit of doubt to the Frontier Post staff, the publication of this letter suggests inadvertent carelessness on their part. I am not opposed to the publication of progressive/liberal material, but I do believe that such letters must be written and/or edited with much care. To those who disagree with me, please send a similar kind of letters against Moses/Jews, Jesus/Christians, Ram/Hindus, and even Mohammad/Muslims for publication in the New York Times, London Times, the Guardian, the BBC, Hindustan Times, The Hindu, and Khaleej Times. And, let me know if they are published.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
P.S. The Frontier Post internet site was closed soon after the incident. Temporal doubts the authenticity of the letter identified by mithuna (Reply # 12).
#14 Posted by fuzair on January 31, 2001 4:02:41 pm
I read the letter on the link provided and its actually pretty mild stuff. Islam has shrugged off much stronger condemnation than this. I suggest that F_K and his friends take a valium or two and not get their knickers in such a twist.
After all, as Scotty said to Kirk, ``We are big enough to take a few insults`` aren`t we? Or is Islam so fragile a faith, and one built on so tenous a foundation, that this letter would bring it tumbling down?
After all, as Scotty said to Kirk, ``We are big enough to take a few insults`` aren`t we? Or is Islam so fragile a faith, and one built on so tenous a foundation, that this letter would bring it tumbling down?
#15 Posted by Harpreet on January 31, 2001 4:38:27 pm
F_K,
from the interest is Halal board
``Zeemax
hamidm # 96
Does anyone know what the `Jew` actually wrote ? The Frontier Post website has been taken down as well so no way of knowing what the issue is all about...
Just curious ! I would be grateful for enlightenment.``
F_K:
I was responding to a request and had just read the article in question before logging onto Chowk.
I dont agree with what was written in the e-mail, but I posted the article because it was relevant.
Maybe I should have just posted the link.....
regards
Harpreet
from the interest is Halal board
``Zeemax
hamidm # 96
Does anyone know what the `Jew` actually wrote ? The Frontier Post website has been taken down as well so no way of knowing what the issue is all about...
Just curious ! I would be grateful for enlightenment.``
F_K:
I was responding to a request and had just read the article in question before logging onto Chowk.
I dont agree with what was written in the e-mail, but I posted the article because it was relevant.
Maybe I should have just posted the link.....
regards
Harpreet
#16 Posted by ylh on January 31, 2001 4:38:27 pm
Hi,
I have read the letter, and may I add that it is one of the stupidest letters ever... yet I think more people read it because of the Mob attack than anything else.
When will our nation learn to be tolerant?
Muhammad was, in my opinion, the greatest man to have lived in History.... no amount of so called
``blasphemy`` will ever change that.
-Yasser Hamdani
I have read the letter, and may I add that it is one of the stupidest letters ever... yet I think more people read it because of the Mob attack than anything else.
When will our nation learn to be tolerant?
Muhammad was, in my opinion, the greatest man to have lived in History.... no amount of so called
``blasphemy`` will ever change that.
-Yasser Hamdani
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- majumdar: Tahmed sahib, Re: 313 Does Pakistan... Dhokha and Being a
- tahmed32: #312 not only have... Dhokha and Being a
- majumdar: DM sahib, My first English... Dhokha and Being a
- tahmed32: #309 DM: You are... Dhokha and Being a
- dost_mittar: majumdar, tahmed: Interesting tidbit re.... Dhokha and Being a
- tahmed32: #307 i had understood... Dhokha and Being a
- majumdar: DM sahib, For example, is... Dhokha and Being a
- iron_mask: Re: # 82 "...just... Government Wins Manmohan Singh
