What Constitutes Blasphemy?

ylh:#205

You might be surprised to learn that I agree with

all your points.

Just declaring an Islamic state does not make it Islamic.Also declaring it secular does not make it secular either(our neighbour to the east a shining example)

The separation of the temporal(``secular``) and the theological is NOT a concept which has suddenly been revealed to us through european philosophers.These are simply the INDIANS ``discovered`` by Columbus(Like a million other ideas/products today).

All the rulers in India(and elsewhere in the world)----before the social engineers of the west started co-opted & re-writing ownerships through `lawyers`,`constituitions`,and `NAMINGS of ideas,places,& things`--- were SECULAR in the truest sense of the word.THey were like benevolent THANAIDAARS who assured peace & harmony among communities & defend the borders & arbiter disputes ACCORDING to the norms of the societal culture.Beyond that they had no mandate.Mind altering through education was not their business and LEARNING only meant that which could not be sold,traded,or marketed---the rest was all belly-filling vocational skill.

Just as some very devious mullahs & dervaishes are Rasputin like trying to gate-crash into the corridors of power SIMILARLY some of those with similar evil intents are determined to use SECULARISM as a cure-all for their religion-snuffing `philosophies`

``Zamaam e kaar gur mazdoor kay hathoN mein ho phir kya!

Tareeq e kohkan mein phir vohee heelay hein chungaizee``

tr:The reins of power,even if the WORKER weilds it,means nothing

The TOILER himself will assume the role of CHUNGAIZ khan.

Lawyers,Salesmen,mullahs,doctors are not evil;the person who became on of those was evil already.They are from us and one does not have to acquire a professional status to be labelled as evil.Majority of them are humanly good;the proof being that they full-fill a need.Market forces are so powerful that what is not needed gets obliterated by the money & time constraints on peoples` lives.

P.S:Sorry,I am being reminded by the resident `tyrant` to finish the chores.I do intend to continue,if you want.I`ll reply to scout & mr.rjanjua later(thanks both of you).

__________________________________________________

wassalaam

Naqashbandi

{If the guy who wrote it was a pakistani in pakistan it should be easy to arrest him and execute him. of course if it is a non-muslim from a non-islamic country then we cannot kill him. but those members of the frontier post who allowed it to be published should be killed.}

Such a casual regard towards death would, I`m sure, make a fascinating psychiatric study. I know it scares the sh *t out of me..

``if defending the honour of SAyyidina wa Mawlana Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wa sallam is narrow-minded ness may Allah make me more narrow=minded. ameen.``

Rasool-Allah does`nt need yours or anyone else`s defense, you dumbass. Now go grab a beer and chill out.

Farangi-Kush #195 ``The knowledge about the character & trustworthiness of the messenger is important before the parcel(message) is received.

...It is extremely important to read the seerat books to learn more and more about him.``

You dare to detract people from the Quran and present to them other books that they should read first? You dare question the trustworthiness of the messenger when a muslim is clearly expected to have faith in this matter without requiring proof? You dare to ignore the message that is repeated in the Quran that it is a book that is clear in presentation? You dare to ignore your own eyes when you can see that the Quran is indeed a book that is clear and meant for all muslims?

You may point to a hundred seerat books, but the true muslim needs only one book, the Holy Quran. And if you are a muslim, you too will try to clear your befogged mind that causes you to violate the teachings of the Quran with impunity.

``Declaring all Muslims outside the fold of Ahmadiyaat to like Christians at best.``

What lesser state of being are Christians in compared to Muslims ?

In this mode of thinking, Bina Shah`s moment of feeling sisterhood with everyone would truly be only instantaneous and illusory.

Best regards,

-Arun the Infidelator

On a somewhat different note:

There was a news report the other day that thousands of Bangladeshis had defied the obscurantist parties call for a total strike by showing up at the Dhaka High Court building to show their support for the recent ruling banning maulvis from issuing fatwas.

Just when you think that the entire ummah is rapidly regressing back to the 7th century, something like this happens! How are we ever to becoming truly muslim if maulvis cannot issue fatwas! My sole consolation here is that the Bengalis are notoriously bad muslims (too much Hindu influence).

In response to Asif Naqshbandi (Reply # 197)
Dear Asif:

Your statement: “The Law applies only to Muslims in an Islamic country. If the guy who wrote it was a pakistani in pakistan it should be easy to arrest him and execute him. of course if it is a non-muslim from a non-islamic country then we cannot kill him. but those members of the frontier post who allowed it to be published should be killed.”

My reply: Assuming that you have a sound understanding of the Islamic law, your statement by implication suggests that Ayatullah Khomeini’s fatwa against Sulman Rushdie was not illegal on two counts: (1) Rushdie did not claim to be a Muslim at the time of the publication of his Satanic Verses (though his parents were Muslims); (2) Rushdie was neither in an Islamic country nor its citizen.

There is one more complication, a declared Islamic country cannot automatically be accredited the status of an Islamic country. Is Pakistan an Islamic country? If it is, then it is a very poor reflection of Islam? Do you agree? And if Pakistan (in your sound judgment) is not an Islamic country, then she has not right to give an Islamic punishment to anybody. Please comment.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

To me, the reproduction of a ``letter`` expressing
biased hatred for Islam, Muslims and the Prophet (PBUH) in Pakistan of all places constitutes STUPIDITY and not BLASPHEMY!
Muslims do need to wake up and realize that there are some people in the rest of the world that just don`t like them and are free to be as critical as they want of Islam. And these people will remain beyond the reach of our self-proclaimed ``Armies of God`` no matter what they write.
There is much more to this Frontier Post saga
then that which meets the eye. Rehmat Shah Afridi, its Editor has been in jail for over two years now for being implicated in ``Hashish`` distribution of all things. And now this to finally seal (Okay I`ll say it) ``My last channel into the mainstream Pakistani press``.
Let us hope that this closing of the newspaper is
not permanent. There are certainly some very powerful forces within Pakistan and beyond who wanted to silence voices beyond ``Lifafa Journalism``. They have succeeded by using guess what? The same old ``Islamic`` card.

Ras

Asif Naqshbandi various posts

Dear Asif,


I find your statements re the issue of Frontier Post as well as your general comments re the issue of blasphemy rather rash and irresponsible. I urge you not to publicise your own position on these matters as representative of all Muslims. Also, please refrain from spreading hatred, sectarianism, and disharmony amongst Muslims. Mohammad (PBUH) never resorted to violence and hate mongering when people hurled garbage (verbal or otherwise) at him (personally). He remained calm and treated his enemies with kindness. He repeatedly urged his followers to not kill anybody (even during war) who begs for mercy...please reflect a moment on Mohammad`s behaviour after the fall of Mecca.... In case of frontier post, the management and staff of the newspaper has asked for forgiveness and mercy... what gives you the right to decleare that they should be killed?


Naqshbandi, when you choose to speak for Muslims, you must show a little more responsibility, due diligence, and care while commenting of sensitive issues. Unfortunately, you are reinforcing the bad image of Muslims as propagated by western media. I am disappointed to say the least.

Ylh wrote:

``1) Declaring that Quaid e Azam was not a Muslim because he was not Ahmadi... hence he was like Abu Talib, and Ahmadis dont need to do Namaz e Jinaza for him... - REF Al Fadl 13 September 1948 ``

Fairdinkum!? it this true?

Ylh, what is being like ``Abu Talib`` ? A kafir? if so, Jinnah was probably a kafir by all standards... he was an ansa-e-ashari khoja shia (since you are an expert on Jinnah you should know)... shias don`t consider Abu Talib a kafir...bad isn`t it?... so that makes shias kafir... then Jinah`s behavour was totally unIslamic as he drank alcohol, ate pork, shaved his beard and was never seen praying in public...
A tricky situation ylh... what should we do? :)

CORRECTION # 216

Please read ``not illegal`` as either ``not legal`` or ``illegal.``

So my corrected statement should read as follows:

``Assuming that you have a sound understanding of the Islamic law, your statement by implication suggests that Ayatullah Khomeini’s fatwa against Sulman Rushdie was not legal on two counts: (1) Rushdie did not claim to be a Muslim at the time of the publication of his Satanic Verses (though his parents were Muslims); (2) Rushdie was neither in an Islamic country nor its citizen.``

I apologize for my sloppiness.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

re the

``If the guy who wrote it was a pakistani in pakistan it should be easy to arrest him and execute him. of course if it is a non-muslim from a non-islamic country then we cannot kill him. but those members of the frontier post who allowed it to be published should be killed.``

Such blatant disregard for the sanctity of human life can only come from someone devoid of any concept of right and wrong and steeped so deep in bigotry that the KKK and Nazis look boy scouts in comparison.

Some defence of the Prophet(SAW)this is. The irony is not lost that these purveyors of hate claim to defend the immortalalized name of the conqueror of Mecca who forgave all his erstwhile persecutors en masse at the hour of his victory.

hamidm uncle #201,

Sorry for ruffling your feathers.

Thanks but just as Howard Stern is not your cup of tea, NSYNC is not my shot of espresso either.

As for ``Pretty in Pink,`` we`ll leave that bs for the daughters of kalay angrez to watch.

Ref Asif #128, #129

Dear Asif Sahib,

Thanks for the posts and the link you provided in #69. It is clear to me that Kitab ash-shifa bi huquq al Mustafa by Qadi `Lyad al Maliki` of Spain has no `ifs`, `buts` and `on the other hands`.

``Wallahi if QAdi Iyad or Imam Malik or any of the other great Muslims were alive they would not hesitate in killing the kafir murtad apostate infidels who wrote this twisted email, who published it and who also defend it. ``

Please clarify if ``who also defend it`` includes all the interactors on this thread, who are misguided and blinded by calls for freedom of speech.

``Of course the perpetrators of this heinous crime must be publically executed and their foul corpses should be thrown into a ditch and burnt.``

What is the point of burning their corpses AFTER the public execution? They are in Allah`s hands after death.

Could we burn them before execution, when they are still alive? Is it allowed to feed them to the dogs? What does the great Muslim Qadi Lyad say about prolonged torture in public on PTV?

I still have not read the offending letter and probably never will. However please provide some thoughts on a small item that has been making my blood boil.

It has come to my attention that some pious and otherwise upright people have been using parenthetic phrases, I find extremely insulting to the Holy Prophet. These phrases imply :

1. There is some estrangement between Allah and The Prophet. The Prophet is not in complete, total and absolute possesion of Allah`s Blessings and Peace. This is absolute rubbish. The Prophet had, has and always will have all the peace and blessings, he ever needs.

2. If these miserable people invoke Allah and put in their measly `Sifarish`, things are somehow going to improve for the Prophet.

No major or minor religion other than Islam will tolerate these blasphemous and trashy utterings. Please spare me that every Muslim uses these phrases, they are merely words or that no insult was really intended. Even using acronyms like PBUH does not detract from the gravity of the blasphemy. Has anyone ever heard about ``God`s peace and blessing be upon`` Jesus, Rama or Guru Nanak?

My humble request to all the sinners is to mend their ways, otherwise Qadi Lyad al Maliki ( Peace be upon the great Qadi, he definitley could use some)will be sicked upon you. Do you agree Asif?

YLH #

It is not the question of different translation of meaning of Khatimun-Nabieen, but Mirza Sahab claimed to receive Wahi. It means clearly that whoever does not believe in Wahi from God is automatically out of true path. So esentially Ahmedi religion replaces Islam of old.

Mirza Sahab had three roles.

1- He was messenger of Allah.

2- He was the reincarnation of Jesus.

3- He was the promised Mahdi for renaissance of Islam.

I have presented just facts for you to judge.

To Fairdinkum!

As far as Abu-Talib accepting Islam or not, probably does not affect teachings of Islam. Many in the prophet`s family were non-Muslims and many were Muslims.

He is being remembered for his role in the protection of prophet PBUH during all crises and is very respectable personality for Muslims all over the world. To give you an example Abdullah and Amina is a very common name among Muslims directly related to mother and father of Prophet PBUH. Would you comment on their Islam or respect they have among Muslims.

The way I look at the Fatwa against, Salman Rushdie is this: There was a singer, who teared the photograph of the Christain head, Pope. Now everyone criticised it, so there was no need for violence. Salman Rushdie gets award for writing the book, specially by people who are respected in the world. The reaction will be violent. Had everyone criticised him for the book, there would be no need for a fatwa.

Well this was a newspaper in Pakistan, everybody could have criticised it. The newspaper was not even being given any award. Why did the people used violence? I cannot use any distortion of logic to justify it. It is sheer fanaticsm and nothing else. But looking at the post from educated Pakistanis here, what can you expect from the common Pakistanis.

Look at some people post here, they say you should not even dare to question their beilief? That sounds very threatening. (I am not sure if it was written in sarcasm or sincerity).

I wish someday Pakistanis will have the confidence enough, to take criticisms. So what if one letter criticised their religion, there could have been thousands of letters criticising that one letter.

As far as I am concerned, you can call me ``penis worshipper`` and I will say, ``so what?``. God is omnipresent, HE is present everywhere (even in the things we despise, or like or hide) and can be worshiped in any form. It does not mean I am obssesed with sex, or think about sex when worshipping.