What Constitutes Blasphemy?

Priorities are certainly misplaced in Pakistan.
Also, people are certainly not as educated and sophisticated as they may be in the west... so they defend their beliefs and their culture and their way of life in a crude manner... but all human beings (well, not all) do defend rather should defend their way of life and their own culture. it is better to resist aganist cultural colonialism than to simply give in and not do anything about it.... not like the sout east asians who even change their bloody name to David and Christopher from wong and chung. Not saying that what happened in Peshawar was right... not at all..

In response to fairdinkum (Reply # 50)
Dear Fairdinkum:

How is the issue of blasphemy linked with the notion of cultural imperialism? Please clarify. However, like other forms of imperialism, cultural imperialism often affects our somewhat peculiar way of life and our ability to think/act freely.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. Chowkwallas, for a good introduction to Cultural Imperialism, please see: John Tomlinson (1991). Cultural Imperialism. Baltimore: The Johns Hopkins Press.

......... this is the straw that broke the dromedary`s back ! ... i have had it with the jews, hindoos, qadianis, ex-communists, europeans, americans and the bushmen of botswana .... all of them, aided and abetted by the munafiqs and bahais and free-masons, have been trying to destroy islam since hazrat ali (RA) was assasinated by the original mossad ...... today, these enemies of islam disguise themselves as IMF officials and multi-national executives and rotary-club members and shriners and NGO karta-dhartas and catholic missionaries and leotard-wearing gymnasts and george soros and regis philbin ........ they are like termites, eating away at the fabric of the ummah, penetrating dar-ul-aman with poisonous broadcasts form satellites and invading our homes via the internet - a tool invented by the former vice president of the US to wage war against the prophet (pbuh) and his ummah ...... the cia, mi-5, raw and mossad have infiltrated the editorial boards of our newspapers and now wage war on us from within ........ they have placed their agents, like hoodbhoy, in our universities to pollute the minds of our young men and women .... they have succeeded in implanting grops like junoon who desecrate and mock the kalam of saints like hazrat iqbal ( ra) ......... these people will stop at nothing to accomplish their nefarious goal of destroying the ummah ......... WE MUST NOT LET IT HAPPEN .........

......... we must fight fire with fire ......

Having read it, it beggars belief that the FP would have published this letter. If stupidity, it borders on criminal. If deliberate, its intent can only have been to inflame passions. And of course, the people obliged.

Let`s see where it all ends up. The reaction of people was beyond all proportion - and of course, once a mob gets riled up, anything is fair game (what had the poor cinema owner done?).

Nontheless, Bilals suggestion is intriguing..

anamika:#42

Nobody is claiming nor could claim piety here.

Give me a single instant when anyone here has been blasphemous about Raam,Gita,or the upanishads.Give me any hindu/indian sites where muslims visit and declare open season on hinduism.

The practices of any/all religions have definitely been a subject here and with the usual volleys or salvos.The muslims have always RESPONDED but never INITIATED this kind of exchange either.The cultural ethos of CHOWK was established well before I entered.Let anyone who has a better memory digout those inter-acts.All my posting were in retaliation to the first hate-salvo.

And yes,if there is an attack by anyone it would be repulsed with a better offensive.That is when all piety takes a hike from me or from any self-respecting human being.

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You could not resist a venomous come-back even after I had posted a very genial post.This you sarcastically called my ``piety``.Whether I behave well or bad it is all the same to you,isn`t it?__________________________________________________

Wassalaam.

MASD #20: The proper way to register a protest is what Fuzair wrote in his post #29. Nobody has the right to become criminal in the process of protesting against a ``crime``. I personally dislike the blasphemy law but it is there. So the proper way of protesting was to 1) register a case against the editorial board; 2) Organize a boycott of FP.

Well, the case has been registered and members of the editorial board have been arrested but what about the crime of burning down the press? Machines do not commit crime, people who operate them do. What if similar mistake or stupidity are comitted by Radio Pakistan, PTV, State Bank of Pakistan etc etc in the future. How many buildings, machinery and offices have to be burned before Pakistan really becomes Pak-Pakistan?

Reminds me of one Afghan Mujahideen group, headed by Abdul Rasool Sayyaf who were the first to liberate a whole province, Nangarhar, from Russians/ Afghan Communists. They practically burned everything to ashes, including office furniture, fans, refrigerators, typewriters, jeeps and even tractors-as kafir symbols. And then many of the mujahideen including some Arabs were grabbing young women as booty (mal-e-ghaneemat).

Somehow the strength of Islamic character for fundamentalists is proportional to the rage they can show when opportunity knocks at their door. Even they actively take part in creating opportunities for rage from thin air either involving in sectarian killing or just blaming the every government to be not enough Islamic. Having a normal peaceful life does not fit with their mindset because it does not provide enough opportunities to ``defend`` Islam or serving Islam. One really has to understand their convictions to understand why they do what they do. The FP issue was a God-sent for them. After burning the press of FP, Islam is safer now in Peshawar, or is it?

Farangi Kush,

If someone attacks my loved ones physically, I have every right to react violently to protect them. That right of violence as a form of defence to a physical attack is protected everywhere in the world.

However, if someone attacks or insults my loved ones IN PRINT, I dont have the right to respond with physical violence. I do have a right to express my repugnance at the person`s behaviour or sue him/her for defamation of character.

On Chowk, you have the right to say hindus imbibe cow dung & urine; & I have the right to make jokes about the 72 houris in heaven. At the same time, people who are offended by such remarks have equal rights to slam us.

What about Solitude`s slanderous remarks about Islam? or URstruly`s remarks about penis gods ? Many could consider them as blasphemous. Chowk has allowed them to be posted. Where do you draw the line?

The editors of Chowk demonstrate to me that they are remarkably--er what word can I use--liberal? tolerant? Many posts here are construed as ``vulgar``. Its very easy to get past software censors by using desi vulgarity or by other means. People who have been offended by vulgarity have said so. Yet Chowk has let them pass.

Now ,if people who are offended by Chowk editorial policy have every right not to visit this website. Do they have a right to deface it? If the editors of Chowk lived in Pakistan, would they be arrested for blasphemy? I`m curious? Maybe, I`m confused what constitutes blasphemy & what does`nt. Hoping other Chowksters will help me clarify this issue.

I found nothing serious in the article although it is highly provocative.

1- The author asserts that it is anti-semitism with which Muslims are driven. If this is the case then Christians are much more anti-semitic in the first place. But let us see.

Who killed jews in current century, Europe but particularly German. Instead of trying to fight for their rights, jews are playing the game of West as their most obedient servants. Killing and displacing not only Muslims, but Christians from their home in Palestine now called Israel. What Muslims are doing are fighting for their rights there. What jews are doing there. Nothing. Since they could not fight their tormentors, they find an easy prey in Palestine. So if fighting for one right is called Anti-semitism in any dictionary, I am a very strong person to fight for my right.

The writer also claims that Prophet PBUH was not accepted by jews because of low moral character. It only signifies a high moral character of jews compared to prophet PBUH. And probably for the same reason they not only not accepted Jesus as prophet but colluded with Roman Empire to put him on cross.

Also the writer asserts that Islam is anti-semitic according to Koran. While as a reader of Koran I found that wrong thoughts and actions of jews are criticized, and not jews as a people. For example and there is even ample proof from Jewish book that when Moses went to ``Koh Toor`` jews started to worship bull. If this is anti-semitic than Moses was the biggest Anti-semitic because he was very angry. If it is mentioned that jews broke the God`s law by trading on Sabbath then the writers of Jewish testament are as much anti-semitic as Muslims. Or if they have changed the word of God for small benefits. Where in the hell it is written that kill a person because he is jew.

Then the assertion is regarding Bani-Quraiza.

Lets see in Early Islamic history the persecution of jews of Bani Quraizah.

`` ``When the trench was completed in Battle of trench in Medina. Bani Nadir (jewish tribe from Khyber) sent their emissary Huyay. Bani-Quraizah were in Medina and an ally of Muslims. When carrot of high REWARDS along with elimination of curse of Islam was shown to them where Quraish, Banu-Ghutfan and Bani Nadir will attack from all sides. Only Banu-Quraizah have to break their pact with Mohammed PBUH. And they broke the pact when the weak and nascent Muslim state was in grave danger.

The attack from Quraish was not getting successful as predicted. Banu-Quraizah became afraid of their prospect. When the Quraish and Ghutfan returned unsuccessful Muslims besieged the fort of Bani Quraizah. The Aws (a tribe) an ally of Bani Quraizah sent a deputation to prophet PBUH to tell him to show the same leniency as he had shown in past to Bani Qaynuqa, an ally of Khzirj (a tribe). The Prophet PBUH told them he will leave the judgement on one of their own from Aws. Then Saa`d bin Muaadh, the chief of Aws pronounced the judgement. Before pronouncing judgement he asked that judgement will be binding on all? and both Muslims and jews said ``We do``. And that is the story behind Banu-Quraizah massacre.

As far as jews not accepting the prophet PBUH.

Long before this incident Ibn al-Hayyaban the old syrian jew who came to live amongst them told the jews about coming of the prophet ``His hour is close upon you. Be ye the first to reach him, O Jews; for he will be sent to shed blood and to take captive the women and children of those who oppose him. Let not that hold you back from him.`` ``

Also many jews had accepted Islam Islam much before this incident in Medina including some Rabbi.

Such were the time and culture we are discussing with our fingers on key board.

All incidences from Medina under `` `` are from Martin Ling book ``Mohammed``

tahmed321 #43

Thank you tahmed321, for inspiring us to read the Glorious Quran before reaching a conclusion regarding blasphemy laws.

I am certainly no supporter of Bhutto or Zia-styled Islamism, its much too tainted with the political color of the Sub-continental chauvinism that remains a rampant problem.

I did a little reading of the Holy Book myself, here`s what I found:

Surah No. 5: Al-Maaida

Ayah 33. ``The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.``



Unlike tahmed321, I cannot claim scholarship about the Islam. I am a student, many better and greater men and women have served the cause of learning much better than myself. In most cases, in line with the Shariah, I believe that if there is a question that needs to be answered and there is no direct response for it in the Quran and Hadith, Muslims must consult a scholar.

Tahmed321 and others must be careful before they use the Quran with an intent that is so audaciously conclusive.

I do not claim that the Ayah quoted above is the end all answer to all matters relating to blasphemy, though I can`t imagine a convincing argument against the same.

By the same token, if there is a smidgen of intellectual honesty in you tahmed321, please retract your arrogant statements, and concede that you are not a scholar, but merely a student.

Confusion I can understand, but your boldness seems to mirror an agenda that I would rather not speculate upon.

May Allah forgive me and all others for our transgressions.

MZaidi

fuzair:#48

Nobody but nobody needs anybody`s permission to exercise `freedom of speech` or for that matter any freedom.Whether you or I approve,like,dislike has no validity here.

So if you sing in the shower or write in your diary whatever you want it does not affect anyone.You will only know the reaction once someone lays hands on that material whether with your express or implicit desire OR surreptiously.Once your views/designs become known to the other party(even a spouse) then you WILL be taken to task.Again no one has to seek your permission for their rectionay behaviour.In whatever manner,if your

thinking process is discovered it is bound to meet with an appropriate(hostile/favourable) reaction.

Wise people exercise discretion rather than trying to question the passions of others.It is not proper to eulogise the virtues of vegetarianism when you are the potential main course on the menu of cannibals--(be they eastern or western.)

Words have tremendous power.Much,much more power than sticks & stones(amazing that you still lead your life according to that ditty).Words can charge up people to risk their lives or to save lives.I hope you do not want me to go in a spiel here on this subject.

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For those eager to test their freedom limits in the so-called free lands,I would request them to find out what is happening to those who have done so.I do not mind at all if such issues are not raised now because we have a lot of cathching up to do.

But please establish for sure that it is the interest of Islam which is paramount(if you are a muslim).The rest is just discussion for discussion`s sake because none of us are ulemas or scholars at least in this field.

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``Yeh naadaaN gir gayay sajday mein jubb vaqt e qiam aaya``

tr:These simpletons went down on their knees(prostrated) when the call went out to stand upright.

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wassalaam

Fairdinkum #50

I see it in different way.

If there is an accident in which someone is hurt, people already take their toll on the perpetrator of crime because they know that the person will go scot free.

Now see the situation here. If people don`t take the matter in their hand, the policeman of the world with their cronies will come in the garb of human right to get the people scot free.

Seeing how blatantly he has abused.

On the other hand, who was telling that liberal thoughts are not tolerated in Pakistan. If this is called liberalism, I revoke my liberalism.

But this is the most reactionary article I have ever seen.

Agar Khuda Ko Gaali Dena or Sharab Pena Hi Liberalism Hai to Footpath Pur Pare Hue Junkies Numa Llogon Ki Wajah Se Duniya Ne Tarraqi Ki Hai.

mikhan #46 ``The desired freedom of speech is a borrowed terminology propagated by the west and its hulligans.``

Study the Quran and then, unless you have eyes but dont see (as is mentioned in the Quran is the case with non-believers who will get their due in good time) you will see that freedom of speech is the essence of Islam. Read the Quran and then curse the environment you grew up in and the people whose words you listened to instead of the Word of God for leading you astray. And then you will become a muslim.

I hadrly think the whole furore is only about blasphemy. The students in question then went and burned down two cinemas and stole money from there (according to a report in the police). And the Frontier Post has always been under fire (literally and metaphorically) for some reason or other. Almost all blasphemy cases in Pakistan seem to have some sort of ulterior motive behind them - in this instance I would guess vendetta against the owners of the paper. Then again, perhaps Peshawar lacks other types of entertainment venues.

Re: ahmadb #51

Cultural Imperialism

Who wants to live in a world where there is only one culture and one way of looking at life?

By definition the dominance of US/West in every aspect of human life in the emerging “global” community/market place or whatever you want to call it, is referred to as cultural imperialism. Intensified by Internet, satellite TV etc. it is threatening the cultural diversity and different ways of looking at life… I also blame it for rise in religious fanaticism….

The main thrust of US/Western cultural imperialism is sponsored by mega multinational corporates through their marketing drive in developing nations… and sometimes even in developed nations such as France.


I might write a bit more on this later… for now, let me tell you how it is tied to what has happened in Peshawar…. To make inroads, imperialists use various tactics to soften people’s attachment to existing traditions/culture… one of them is through print media… by pushing letters such as the one published in FP (btw, I don`t consider it an issue of freedom of expression... in the context of pakistani society such incidents don`t help in evolution of a more open, tolerant, and freer society), it becomes easier to then move to the next stage…. i.e. openly attack the very core of the culture by ridiculing all that is respected/revered by the people of that culture… for example, openly ridicule Mohammad, Quran and make fun of Allah… once such an environment is created who cares about culture and traditions that bound us to our roots? Then there is only one way of looking at life… the western way… whatever CNN tells us is the “truth”… whatever westerners do is the most sophisticated thing to do…

No doubt our methods of resisting the cultural imperialism are unsophisticated... poor, uneducated people of Pakistan are concious of their cherished traditions/culture but they are not as sophisticated as Europeans or even chinese... they react violently... as Bina points out there always elements who take advantage of peoples emotions and engage in ``uthai geeri`` etc. However, in essence, unless it is an organized attack by one of the religious groups in pakistan, people are making an statement (albeit in a misguided manner) that they want to be left alone... they want to pass on their traditions to their children...

More later.

Farangi-Kush

Freedom of speech is the slogan.

Lets see how many writers are hounded in West because they justify holocaust. Is justifying holocaust not a freedom of speech.

If it is said that justifying holocaust incites reaction against jews, then what the said article is doing. Inciting reaction against any one following a Nazi Prophet(Naoozo-Billah).

Remember Heider from Sweden when he was not allowed to take oath of Prime Minister.

What the mob did, did very right. They don`t have connection to world jewry and and finance capital to curb it within the BOUNDS OF LAW. LAWFUL MURDER IS freedom of speech.

Let the West be reminded that we will not tolerate the abuse of Prophet PBUH even if we have to die for it.

MZaidi #59

Leaving Koran for so called scholars has led to a situation where majority of Muslims are passing a life of duplicity unable to reconcile hard facts of life with religion. So probably leave this rhetoric to some Islamic gathering in Shikarpur or Jalalpur Jattan. You will find enough people to nod without understanding anything.

There are two sources even according to Koran. Koran and Sunnah. Many Ayah`s are presented by TAhmed in support of his point. Moreover over a period of 23 years a multitude of people have taunted and blasphemised prophet PBUH. How many executions did you see. Let your scholarship dig into it.

I only support the reaction to it not because of Islam, because I find no evidence for it, but it is a onslaught against Muslims, and their interests which need to be defended and the article`s sole aim seems to create an atmosphere of hatred for followers of Nazi (Naoozo-Billah).

Please tell your highly esteemed scholars to do something so that Muslims don`t lead a life of duplicity any more. What they have done in past is self evident. If you don`t know then until recently whole of the Muslim world was occupied physically by Western power with the blessings of so called scholars whom you are defending. And still it is occupied by West albeit not so conspicuously.

Please tell me why your scholars are against teaching Darwin`s theory and many of them are strictly against science and some even don`t believe that man has gone to moon. With all their knowledge if they are reaching such conclusions then ``Bakhsho Bhi Billi Chuha Landora Hi Bhala``. Let me act according to my own understanding of things. I will reconcile it better rather than living in duplicity by following your esteemed scholars.