What Constitutes Blasphemy?

re. #54

``Give me a single instant when anyone here has been blasphemous about Raam,Gita,or the upanishads.Give me any hindu/indian sites where muslims visit and declare open season on hinduism.``

The implication is that the Hindus have declared open season on Islam on this website.

Let us see ... Solitude is a Hindu. So is Fuzair, and, of course, hamidm`s professed dislike for Indians is the perfect cover for his bashing. That `messenger` guy must also have been a Hinud/Indian. No Muslim could ever make those blasphemous remarks!!

And I, no doubt, am an Islam-loathing Jew. Why else would I have posted this hateful post!

...........

Can we get any more insecure?

...........

wassallam

Godot #66,

Thanks

#77

Let those who pride themselves for their education & `liberalism` prove it by ignoring the muck-racking of this sinister character.

He is neither Hindu,nor muslim or with any other creed.

If not,then under `freedom` & liberalism you will be sucked to become the Devils` advocate(literally)

The reason why freedom of expression in suppressed in Pakistan and most of the self proclaimed Muslim countries is the fact that they simply cant defend the ``type`` of Islam being followed and professed in these countries. Suppressing any form of freedom also remains in the best interest of the deliriously fanatic religious thugs, political leaders or, simply, the rulers, who don`t want people to think. This primarily stems from the fact that this group does not have the ability to reason or argue to defend Islam, therefore the only option left for, these bigots, is to encourage their ignorant followers to terrorize people.

I reiterate, hang all these over zealous cranks by their beards.

In response to SaadPAslam (Reply #85)
Dear Saad:

I think, your post is an attempt to convey an important message. However, the words “thugs,” “bigots,” or “cranks” are not appropriate to engage in a civil deliberation. How would “I” react if you call me a thug, a bigot, or a crank? What if I use the same for you? Be assured, I will not do so. Why? Because, I am a little conscious about the expressions I use.

Finally, in my view, you instantaneously lost the appeal of your argument/message when you said: “. . . hang all these over zealous cranks by their beards.” Please consider. I am sure, your post was not without a purpose and you wanted to develop a consensus around it.

Anyhow, welcome to the Chowk! Let us struggle together in as peaceful and amicable manner as possible.

Sincerely

The Committe to Protect Journalists sent the following letter to General Musharraf. Source: http://www.cpj.org/protests/01ltrs/Pakistan31jan01pl.html

January 31, 2001

His Excellency Gen. Pervez Musharraf
Chief Executive, Islamic Republic of Pakistan
General Headquarters, Pakistan Army
Rawalpindi, Pakistan

Via Facsimile: 92-51-922-4206

Your Excellency:

The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) is deeply dismayed by the recent arrests of at least a dozen employees of the English-language newspaper The Frontier Post and its sister publication, the Urdu-language daily Maidan. District officials in Peshawar, where both newspapers are published, ordered the arrests and sealed The Frontier Post`s printing press without having conducted any investigation into allegations of blasphemy against the daily.

On January 29, The Frontier Post published a letter to the editor entitled ``Why Muslims Hate Jews,`` which included derogatory references to Islam`s Prophet Muhammad. Although senior management at the newspaper claimed the letter was inserted into the copy as an act of sabotage by disgruntled employees and apologized for failing to stop its publication, district officials responded to complaints from local religious leaders by shutting down the paper and ordering the immediate arrest of seven staff members on charges of blasphemy. In Pakistan, anyone accused of blasphemy is subject to immediate arrest without due process safeguards; those found guilty may be sentenced to death.

That same evening, police sealed the offices and the printing press of The Frontier Post, and arrested Aftab Ahmed, news editor; Imtiaz Hussain, chief reporter; Munawwar Mohsin, sub-editor; Qazi Ghulam Sarwar, feature writer; and Wajihul Hassan, computer operator. Police are searching for two others charged: Mehmood Afridi, the paper`s managing editor, and Syed Javed Nazir, joint editor. Local authorities later revealed that they were also holding Shahid Afridi, who is not an employee of the newspaper but was on the premises at the time of the police raid, on charges of disrupting public order.

On January 30, The Frontier Post placed prominent advertisements on the front pages of the country`s major Urdu- and English-language dailies, noting that it ``profoundly regrets the publication . . . of highly blasphemous material masquerading as a letter to the editor, and identifies with the injured feelings of the nation over the issue.`` Mehmood Afridi, the paper`s managing editor, urged the government to launch an immediate judicial inquiry into the circumstances of the letter`s publication.
Despite the paper`s unequivocal public apology, religious groups continued to stage violent demonstrations, with some protestors calling for the journalists to be executed. On January 30, hundreds of demonstrators gathered outside The Frontier Post`s offices and set fire to the building housing the paper`s printing press. The fire caused extensive property damage. Local journalists told CPJ that police stationed outside the building did not act swiftly to stop the destruction, and charged that some officers had even aided the arsonists.

This evening, at approximately 6:30 p.m. local time, police arrested about six people from the daily Maidan, including the paper`s news editor, Kifayatullah. Local journalists told CPJ that the group was taken in for interrogation, as police were trying to determine the whereabouts of Mehmood Afridi.

As an organization of journalists dedicated to the defense of our colleagues around the world, CPJ is shocked by the government`s handling of this crisis. Instead of acting to curb public anger, Your Excellency has publicly condemned The Frontier Post for committing blasphemy, a charge that puts the journalists of the paper in extreme danger.

CPJ respectfully requests Your Excellency order the immediate release of the accused pending a full investigation into this matter. In light of the prompt, public apology offered by The Frontier Post, we believe that punitive action is unwarranted and contributes to a hostile atmosphere for the press.

The actions taken by district officials also highlight the dangers of the blasphemy laws, which have been used to persecute journalists and religious minorities. Your Excellency had rightly sought to modify these laws so that they would be less prone to abuse, and we encourage you to revisit this issue.

We also urge you to instruct local authorities to guarantee the security of journalists employed by The Frontier Post and Maidan who feel they are at risk of physical harm.

Sincerely,
Ann K. Cooper
Executive Director

In India, such a letter would have resulted in communal riots, and no paper wanting to remain in business, and retain some credibility would have published it. One can go to jail for inciting public disharmony, ethnic or religious and offending one`s readers in this manner seems particularly futile when one is not fulfilling any journalistic objective anyway, because the letter doesnot seem to have been commenting on any ongoing issue under discussion in the newspaper.


Actually, I suspect the Frontier Post letters page was a disaster waiting to happen. I used to follow it closely some months ago, and I noticed that even business correspondence on office supplies got published as letter to the editor. After that I reached the conclusion, someone somewhere was not fully literate.

However using the term `blasphemy` makes it seem an offence against God and punishment by death makes the whole thing seem a order of magnitude more serious. It seems an excessive reaction for what is likely to be stupidity and negligence.

I do hope the matter is properly understood and some middle ground is found to avoid making it a tussle between two extremes, especially since the writer of the letter is not likely to come forward and face the music himself, and at least some of the accused employees of the newspaper seem to be relatively `laachar`(helpless). It would be inhumane to make them poster boys of either the `defence of Islam` brigade or `defence of universal values such as freedom-of-speech` brigade. Save that for those who can take care of themselves.

Sadhana

PM #81

I rather doubt that with a name like FarangiKhush, he lives in the West. He cannot be that big a hypocrite.

Assalamalaikum.

The saddest part of it is that someone is in Jail for allowing the expression a view that was of another. They should have liability against third party opinions like the Internet companies Like AOL have.

Constant fear of retribution is a barrier to all good ideas.

Very sad!

wassalam.

Aisha.

ahmadb #86 I dont think you can have a logical discussion with fundamentalists (or with Islam bashers like Solitude, for that matter). You can only give them one message (for their own benefit): Go and study the Quran with an open mind, and be ready to find how God`s Words are conveniently ignored by mullahs, pirs and those they consider to be scholars and the logical conclusions brushed aside. That is the only discussion you can have with these people, and the only message you owe them as a muslim. Aside from that, you need to military government to get it`s act together and have the courage to do it`s job of ensuring law and order in the country so that these thugs do not terrorize the nation.

MZaidi #59 I never claimed to be a scholar of Islam, something that you falsely accuse me of. Indeed, I consider scholars and pirs and suchlikes to be detractors from the Word of God, the selfstyled ``partners`` of Allah that the Quran repeatedly warns against. I presented certain Surah only in response to a posters request that I back some conclusions I reached based on my understanding of the message. You brushed aside those Surahs as being out-of-context. Suit yourself. It is not my job to try and convince you or anyone else on anything about Islam, and I presented those Suras only upon request and as a courtesy.

In response to tahmed321 (Reply # 91)
Dear T:

Quranic verses were revealed in specific contexts. The translation and/or application of any context-dependent verse, and the ideas/messages contained in it, to another context is not without some difficulties. For most Muslims, the best course in my view is to focus on the universal teachings/values of Islam. Once we do that we will most plausibly find an easy way out to solve our difficulties, both within and without.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to sarwari (Reply # 90)
Dear Aisha, Assalamalaikum:

I fully agree with you.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

From The News International today (Jang Group):


The demons within

By Shafqat Mahmood

We may have many strengths as a people but facing up to harsh reality is not one of them. We like to ignore difficulties, avoid problems and prefer living in a world of make believe. This is what happened during the conflict in East Pakistan. This is what is happening today in a conflict that threatens to undermine our way of life. This country is facing many economic, social and political problems. However, what is really scaring the migrating hordes of the rich and famous from Pakistan, is the spectre of armed lunatics taking control in the name of Islam.

One fond hope of many who welcomed the takeover on October, 12, 1999, was that this demon of ``religious`` fanatics would be sorted out once and for all. Like many other hopes this one is also destined to be shattered. I have put religious in inverted commas because religion is only a handy tool for these killers. The Basra`s of this world are as Islamic as Pol Pot was a Marxist. What turns them on is the pleasure of the kill. The veneer of religion is a thin camouflage for murderous intent. And, the notion of a holy war only a justification for mayhem. The sooner we understand this the better.

The recent sectarian killings in Karachi are only a reminder, as if we needed one, of these monsters lurking within our body politic. The Chief Executive may well blame a foreign hand but we have heard that one before. Over and over again. What we need to hear is a recognition of the truth. That it is our home grown warriors using Islam as a cover who truly threaten us. We could choose to blame our enemies and do nothing. Or, we could decide to face up to reality and begin the difficult task of neutralising them.

It is indeed a difficult task. These elements are not short of arms and have no hesitation in displaying them. The gathering of the ``faithful`` under Maulana Sami-ul-Haq`s roof was another proof of their brazen disregard for the law of the land. Guards armed to the teeth with lethal weapons were there for all to see. And they did not even get a slap on the wrist from our law enforcers. No wonder they have no fear of the law. In fact they were bold enough to ask our Interior Minister to cool it, when he used tough rhetoric. I wish that for once these firm words were backed with action. At least we would have given a message to them that there is a government in this country. A government ready to enforce rule of law without fear or favour. It was not to be.

Why is the government giving these elements such a long leash? Why this molly coddling, these tender hands? Others haven`t been so lucky. A handful of people protesting in Karachi were beaten black and blue. The so called mainstream political parties have been terrorised into respecting the ban on public meetings. Yet, the ``faithful`` get away with everything. Not long ago a religious organization based in Muridke just took over the Mall in Lahore. They blocked the traffic and proceeded to have a jalsa right in front of the Lahore High Court. There was not even a pretence of seeking permission from the administration. Did anybody take action? No. Did anybody register an FIR? No. Why shouldn`t the ``faithful`` feel encouraged or emboldened by all this?

I was not there but I am told a bizarre scene was enacted on Eid Day at Gaddafi Stadium. First, permission was granted to the same Muridke outfit to hold an Eid gathering on the cricket pitch. Then their leader proceeded to proudly re-stage their attack on the Red Fort in New Delhi. This action replay was dramatised under the shadow of guns carried in hundreds by the ``faithful`` and was there for all to see. People who had come to say their Eid prayers were stunned. Yet, not a leaf stirred, not a pebble moved. No one in the government took any notice. The police were there but only as ornaments to add to the grandeur of the occasions. Such is the way we enforce rule of law.

The Chief Executive is rightly worried about our image abroad. Just the other day he was criticising those who run the country down, or project a negative image. This is a justifiable concern and we all need to do our bit to make sure that the world thinks well of us. But, I ask him why should the world change its opinion if those committing sabotage in the capital of another country are allowed openly to flaunt their achievements. We are not talking of the Jihad in Kashmir or the killing of armed personnel. We are talking of civilian targets.

Everyone is praising the Chief Executive`s gesture of rushing aid and assistance to the earthquake affected people in India. These are the kind of gestures that would turn world opinion in our favour. These are the kind of steps which would bring down the temperature in our region. This and more would ultimately translate into a positive image of Pakistan. Not stories of sabotage or mayhem.

In the end it is all about the kind of assumptions we make about these armed warriors. If important people in the government begin to see them as their reserve army then they would certainly be treated tenderly. If we believe that the Taliban movement is no big deal we would obviously ignore its threat to our country. If we start using the ``religious`` warriors to further our national interest, we would indeed look at them as allies rather than as a potential adversaries. It is these faulty assumptions that are leading us into a potential abyss. We made false assumptions before in East Pakistan and paid the price. Some of us are making false assumptions again and the price maybe even higher.

Let us not fool ourselves. Aligning ourselves with these warriors is like riding a tiger. The slightest misstep and the tiger would be ready to devour us. If the Kashmir issue is ever settled to the satisfaction of both parties, it would have to be a compromise. How would our warriors react to any compromise or even to a hint of one? My guess is violently and this violence would not be outside but here within our shores.

The Taliban movement is essentially a movement of religious revival. They are occupied for the moment in their internal conflict but once it is sorted out in their favour where would they strike next? Which would be the next arena for enforcement of their interpretation of Islam? Clearly we would figure prominently in their gun sights. They know us well and also have a virtual army of allies led by that great figure, Maulana Fazalur Rehman. This is not as far fetched as it may seem. Ideological movements are notoriously expansionist. Remember Communism? That is just a modern example. History is full of examples of the fervour that ideological movements generate.

Some others are not waiting for an opportune time or for the Taliban to come fishing in our waters. They are already beginning to assert themselves. The threat by Maulana Akram Awan to physically take over Islamabad is not an idle one. And he would not be alone. There is no shortage of ``visionaries`` and their armed disciples in our sacred land. They would gladly jump on a bandwagon that seems like getting somewhere. Then what will we do?

Is the state ready to face this challenge? Does it have the internal strength and the reservoir of will to stand up to these varied forms of totalitarian control. It is hard to tell. One thing is clear though. With each passing day, the task is going to get more and more difficult.

The author is a former Senator and former federal and provincal minister

PM #81

``Face it... You folks are only willing to show that you ``will not tolerate the abuse of the Prophet`` when their is NO DANGER to your lives. Typical of the way your `angered mobs` and terrorists operate. Unlike, say the Black (Tamil) Tigers who are actually willing to die for what they believe. They both kill. The difference? Your heroes are actually cowards, acting only in mobs or when their is no risk to their person.``

First, thanks for lumping everything together in one post – not sure which one of your arguments relates to what I wrote in my responses… And then thanks for selectively choosing quotes out of context. And many thanks for sticking to the much used and abused terms such as “terrorists” to describe “everybody” who has attempted to shed some light on why people behave the they did in Peshawar.

As for you description of Tamil Tigers as brave people willing to die for what they believe in… I find it hilarious! And as for mob mentality, and instant violent reactions, (hall mark of Pakistani society) these are issues that may be beyond the scope of our discussion here. We might as well stick to name calling, and describe each other as cowards and terrorists…

PM #81

``Face it... You folks are only willing to show that you ``will not tolerate the abuse of the Prophet`` when their is NO DANGER to your lives. Typical of the way your `angered mobs` and terrorists operate. Unlike, say the Black (Tamil) Tigers who are actually willing to die for what they believe. They both kill. The difference? Your heroes are actually cowards, acting only in mobs or when their is no risk to their person.``

First, thanks for lumping everything together in one post – not sure which one of your arguments relates to what I wrote in my responses… And then thanks for selectively choosing quotes out of context. And many thanks for sticking to the much used and abused terms such as “terrorists” to describe “everybody” who has attempted to shed some light on why people behave the they did in Peshawar.

As for your description of Tamil Tigers as brave people willing to die for what they believe in… I find it hilarious! And as for mob mentality, and instant violent reactions, (hall mark of Pakistani society) these are issues that may be beyond the scope of our discussion here. We might as well stick to name calling, and describe each other as cowards and terrorists…