La Excepcion (The Exception)

re: helter skelter

“Okay Aurangzeb was about the last famous muslim ruler.What about the fall of Spain in the 1400s--your euro beachhead? But since then, the track record has been spotty unless you consider the fact of muslims beating up other muslims--as the house of Saud did in your holy land. They were no match for the western armies from the middle ages on.”

Like I said you should have sticked with your 200 years, which itself was not correct given your examples of Usmani Turks and can apply only to Chughatai Turks (aka Mughals). Mid 1400s marked the expulsion of Muslims from Spain not Europe, chummy. The advance of Usmani Turks under Suleman the Magnificient was halted at Vienna in 1529. Most of the east Europe was under their control in the early 1900s. I personally don’t consider them as Muslim/Islamic conquerors. They were Turks. In case of Spain, Arabs and North Africans. The fact that their religion was Islam is a secondary consideration.

“Come to think of it, what happened to the culture of intellectual growth that the Moors of granada encouraged?”

It was replaced by the Holy Inquisition.

”The point I was getting at is that some areas have a martial culture, a la the Punjabis who`ve had jats of both religions and sikhs, and there are the Rajputs.”

The idea of the “martial race” is a British invention. Untill 1840s there were hardly any Punjabis in the British Indian Army. Some units were raised after the Sikhs were defeated (by the Bengal Army which comprised of Hindustani soldiers). These were mostly irregulars and comprised of Pathans, Punjabi Sikhs, Punjabi Mussalmans and the Punjabi Hindus. It was not until after the mutiny of the Bengal Army in 1857 when the British recruitment policy changed. The Punjabis were rewarded for their loyalty during 1857. As the Bengal Army was disbanded the new regiments raised were from Punjab (at that time NWFP was considered part of Punjab). The term loyalty was later changed to martial races – sounds more appealing.

“But on the other hand, some with no culture of martial valour in the near term have done well as my coreligionists [more cultural rather than religious] in Israel have. How come they are better in beating off their local threats especially considering a hiatus of nearly 2000 years.”

The 5000 years Jewish history is that of getting their asses whuped. The last 50 years are an anomaly. Kind of similar to that of Bharatis.

“I suppose it has more to do with grit and smarts than sheer anger/hatred.”

Agree whole-heartedly. Like I said before this whole martial-race theory is crap. The key lies in determination and the will to rise up against injustice-that’s what makes a good fighter – add some discipline and you have a good soldier. A good example is the fight of the outnumbered, outgunned Kashmiris against the might of Indian Army. Please read Urstruly’s posts for details.

Tres Bien!!!

il me plait beaucoup.

c`est un excellente idee.

AN APPEAL TO INDIAN ARMY AND THE RAW

Dear Soldiers!

I know that you monitor this site round the clock. Therefore, I am sure that you will get this message.

It is an oft repeated phrase that ‘soldiers do what they are told to do’. Yes, there is truth to it. But there are times when being a soldier is not enough and the soldier’s honor, which makes a soldier the best of the best, becomes secondary. That is the time when a soldier starts thinking like a human being. That is the time when even ‘the best of the best’ becomes the greatest. Dear Soldiers, that time has come.

My Friends, please do not look at the messenger who is just an eight lettered word on the screen but listen to the message. I request you to open your mind and your heart only for a short while; only long enough to read this message. What you’ve got to lose by reading this message? You may continue doing what you are told to do anyway. But on the other hand you might be able to do the noblest of all the deeds, that is, saving some human lives; that includes your life too. This is a win-win situation whether you chose to act on this request or not.

My Dear Soldiers this short note is written just to bring your attention to the following. It is also the time to start asking these questions from your political leadership:

 How many more years will it take to end war on Kashmiri people. It has been 55 years now that Kashmiris have expressed their will in more than one way.

 It has been thirteen years now that you are killing civilians relentlessly but nothing changes. Please do realize that by killing civilians you are not winning a war you are losing it. Every time you shoot a bullet at an un-armed Kashmiri protestor you lose. Every time you make a Kashmiri child orphan you lose. Every time you break the bones of a fearless Kashmiri in your prison cells you lose. Every time you commit the most horrendous crime that man has ever invented against a woman i.e. rape you lose. No matter what you do you lose. Even if you take the right of breathing from each and every Kashmiri and even if you annihilate them with your atomic weapons you will lose.

 It is easier to fight someone and defeat him who feels pain and fears death. How is one supposed to fight those who think that the death means eternal life. Who reinforce their will power by the every blow they take from you. Every time they hear the sound of their bones cracking in your dungeons their belief in freedom strengthens.

 Now that you have sent a good number of your friends, colleagues, sub-ordinates, jawans, officers, and soldiers back home in coffins and body bags, you might be able to understand death better. Just think of your opponents who do not have luxury of an un-limited supply of weapons, well-maintained supply lines, shelters for snow, rain and sleet, air support, armored personnel carriers, night vision goggles, cash for informants, artillary, intelligence, communication through satellites, yet they fight you. They hurt you bad. They kill you. They don’t fear your might. They look you in your eyes while dying in your torture chambers. How do you defeat such people?

 I want you to think about your family; your father; your mothers; your wives; and most of all your children. No child deserve to be orphaned. No child deserves to see a broken raped mother. No father deserves to hear that he has outlived his son. No mother deserve to hear that the part of her heart was blown up in Machine gun fire. And no maiden deserves to hear that her innocent prayers will never be acknowledged. Think about it. I am not talking about Kashmiris, I am talking about you, your father and mother, your wife and children, your lovers.

A time has come to go beyond being the best of the best. A time has come to ask your political leaders as to when this war is gonna end. A time has come to say farewell to your arms. A time has come to finally look yourself in the mirror.

It is time that you ask your leaders why they are asking you to kill civilians. It is time you ask them what have they done to find the solution to this problem.

Dear Soldiers! A time has come that the world community will start asking you why you are killing civilians? I am pretty sure your leaders in Delhi will say that “they have no recollection of that”, “they were unaware of the happenings at the distant land”. It will be YOU who will be tried for the crimes committed against humanity.

IT IS TIME TO INVOKE THE SOLDIER’S HONOR AND DO THE RIGHT THING. GODSPEED.

.......... as much as i hate the horrible hindoos i really wouldn`t mind if they dispatched demagogues like urstruly to the land of hoors and ghilmans posthaste ..... now, i would have a lot more respect for urstruly if he was actually in indian occupied kashmir with the jihadis .... how about signing up for a tour of duty ? .... or do you want the wretched madrassa types to continue dying for your cause while you pound away at the keyboard at the local starbucks? .......

............ and , oh by the way, what does all this have to do with bad poetry ................

Studebaker

``Many riots in india get started by relationship between opposite community lovers.``

Is that not both true and shameful?!

Sometimes it just frustrates me to see people behave in so violently and narrow-minded ways.

What is worse is that there seems to be something more cynical and absurd behind it. People feel OK if they are able to get a girl of the opposite community. Then it may even become a matter of pride! But God forbid if someone from the opposite community marries one of their girls.

There is some absurd deep-seated sexism involved here.

Ras #100: Thanks for posting Aseff Ahmad Ali`s article. I think he has painted very accurate picture of society-state paradox in Pakistan. Despite continuation of this policy by state for a very long time, state has not realized the futility of its core policies. The citizen considers themselves citizen but state considers them something else-less than citizen.

The struggle for political independence in Kashmir is a

historic decision by one of the more pliant ethnic groups

of the sub-continent. This struggle will force many other groups to delve deeply into

their own sense of self and their history, a sense that billion hindoos have been

unable to appreciate or develop over the centuries. That the bloody struggle for self-control

and destiny continues is heartning and telling. It is Kashmiris making a

decision to sever ties with the `Area of Darkness`, which has no indiginous or

historical concept of State. Statehood imposed upon hundred of milions of hindoos by outsiders.

The british was so appalled by the deciet and degenaracy of the hindoos, they refuse to deal with

them in a humane fashion.

The people of this area of darkness were exposed to

many noble and energetic principles such as Christianity and Islam but both these forces

failed to raise the civility of hindoos or abolish cast system. Muslims and Christians constitute a large

minority in India but they are not obsessed with maintaining their racial purity such as parsees, because,

as many hindoos have pointed out, they are converts and as such still part of the general degenaracy.

There is something degenerate about the gene-pool of this land that breeds the worst of humans,

only slightly up the evolution chain from Africans but highly evolved in imparting cruelty and deceit.

This is actually the reason that in Pakistan despite all being muslims, the sense of self of one ethnic

group is different than the other. Self-respect is more on sale in Punjab than say in NWFP. Religion

can only do so much when it comes to an almost genetic disease of pathetic human behaviour.

Zaheer-ud-Din Mohammad Babur, the renaissance prince and figurehead of the Mughal empire had

to plead with his Turk/Afghan soldiers to stay this foreign land, so turned off they were by their surroundings.

His compatriots found nothing redeeming in this land. He himself is frank in his low opinion of the people

of this land: no gardens, no love for a civic life, no genius for building or mechanics, no candles etc.

What has hindoos being doing for last two thousand years? Why is that Marco Polo could not find a single

dressmaker in hindu-stan on his way back to Italy ?

He just scrached the surface: what he found was resourcesless people degraded by a enervating caste

system, unable to defend itself, unable to feed itself or be a torch-bearer of history.

Hindoos have never been the torch bearer of history. Persians, Chinese, Arabs, Turks, Afghans and ancient Egyptians

have been the torch bearers of human spirt and its advancement but never the largely populated hindu-stan, Why ?

We all know the answers when we come across one of their specimen: deceit, lack of courage and unable to stand

for any principle. These days they are delusional about their IT labour. This IT labour are the escapees of the

wretchedness called hindu-stan and no amount of gloss over is going to convince anyone, pakistanis

or Western. When I meet a hindoo here in USA boasting about India in front of a discerning American,

the American looks at me as if asking `Yes and what about the City of Joy`. You escaped and now shut up.

RE # 83 Asif

[``throw in some hate for the hindu and love for their women.``]

Before throwing in your love, did you wash them with carbolic acid to get rid of the stink of heeng and Dabur Amla?

FerozK #81

First congratulations on your marriage. See you after 5 years with less courage and more wisdom:-)

I am sad that your article is not published.

I understand the infinite wisdom of chowk.

1- The article should be in a foreign language, preferably.

2- It should be understood by as little people as possible.

3- It should have no intellectual depth.

4- It should have literary standard of 5th grade.

5- And last but not least of all, it should not be written by regular interactors at chowk. But by people who just come to post their article, regardless of its merit.

If I am missing something, you are a maestro in analysis.

Helter skelter well done.

Tere Wade Pur Jiye to yeh Jaan Choot jana.

Ke Khushi Se mur Na jate Agar Etbar Hota.

At least Urstruly has something to sacrifice for.

Why you are giving your life in line of brutality.

May be raping gives Hoor in this world.

Shame man shame.

Humsab #95

Who cares about second rate caste.

Be happy in your musings and continue to toe the discourse.

Saxena,

{{``That`s OK. I`ve chased and been welcomed by a Pakistani woman or two in my day.``}}

haha,in your wet dreams buddy! No woman, even with half a brain, would ``welcome`` you! What you call ``chased``--let me correct your english--the more accurate word is ``stalked``. There are laws against that,nowadays.

You better thank your lucky stars youre a desi. I`m sure your folks will arrange a beautiful educated bride from your village. All they have to say is ``hamara ladka America main hain, bohut acche naukri hai uski!``. Upon hearing that some poor gullible couple will force their beautiful ladli beti to marry you.

Oh I feel so sorry for that poor bakri. Tell you what, since we are true friends. I`ll treat that unfortunate gal for severe acute depression, for free!

Let us make it a Hundred here from The Friday Times:



State and citizen

By Aseff Ahmad Ali (a former foreign minister of Pakistan, laments how, when the mullah proposes and the state disposes, the citizen is becoming increasingly alienated from the state of Pakistan)

There isn`t a country where one question is more often asked: what ails Pakistan? To all such autopsies, may I, in all humility, add my own theory of the national malaise?

Whatever one may call the ``state``, it is clear that the state is at variance with the citizen. A debt-ridden state with a ``heavy`` foreign policy agenda is trying to squeeze the last ounce out of its citizens. It has lost the ability to correct itself after indulging in monumental blunders. Far from facilitating its citizens or moderating their various interests, it continues to use the citizens` taxes to enlarge itself. Therefore, the citizen does not feel at peace with the state.

The citizen yearns for a workable democracy in which he has a voice. The state holds elections. After the ballot is cast, the citizen goes home. But democracy starts and ends here. The elections are manipulated to achieve ``desired results``, which is a euphemism for pliable government. The pliable government is then expected to fulfil the agenda of the state. But as soon as an elected government is seen to lapse from the state`s national security agenda, or expresses dissatisfaction with it, the government is rapidly destabilized through various constitutional and judicial mechanisms. The citizen thus becomes a helpless bystander in a cycle of the absurd in which the state pursues its agenda relentlessly, sometimes even at the cost of international isolation and domestic unrest.

Historically, the citizen has great love for a moderate and tolerant Islam based on the teachings and poetry of the Sufis. But the state of Pakistan has no use for such teachings of peace and love. It needs militants to fight its battles. These militants are recruited through jihadi parties, which are intolerant and retrogressive. They are also greedy for power and money. They intimidate citizens by instilling the fear of God and weapons. They fight murderous turf battles with one another and with any government that dares to oppose them. The state refuses to contain them because it has a need for them. So if they give an ounce of themselves to state causes, they demand and obtain a pound of flesh from the hapless citizen. Several of them have lately been threatening to invade Islamabad and force the government to impose their version of the Sharia. Some have even threatened to create Islamic states within Pakistan. Some of their assassins are for hire and claim state protection. They operate thousands of seminaries and receive foreign funds. They issue fatwas and feel free to declare jihad against India, China, Iran and USA. On sensitive security issues they threaten the country against signing the CTBT, warn against a dialogue with India and agitate against talks on Kashmir.

The mullah proposes and the state disposes. The state of Pakistan sees no sedition in this practise. If the mullah threatens the state its minions plead with him. If he goes on the rampage in Peshawar, state officials join his chorus. He ridicules democracy as a Western instrument of foreign control. He hates the Quaid-e-Azam and doesn`t have a word of praise for him in his fearsome Friday sermons. Yet the state of Pakistan does not wish to hear the citizen who has spoken again and again in every single election against Mullah Islam.

The citizen has deep feelings for the oppressed people of occupied Kashmir and wants justice for them. But the jihadi mullah says no. He wants to wage jihad till the break-up of India. And the Pakistani state allows religious parties to declare jihad at will. It refuses to listen to the citizen who, even as he or she is proud of Pakistan`s nuclear achievement, does not want war. The state on the other hand is determined to pursue untenable and unsustainable national security and foreign policy positions.

The citizen has no quarrel if Pakistan trades with India. But the state says no, even at the cost of economic isolation. The citizen wants cheaper goods from India, but the state only allows expensive western goods. The citizen is proud of the great Muslim Civilization of India, and is also proud of the pre-Islamic craddle of civilization of the Indus Valley. But the state tells him that Pakistan`s history starts with Mohammed Bin Qasim. The citizen admires all Mughal Emperors. But it insists the greatest of the Muslim Emperors was Aurangzeb. Meanwhile, school history books offer a garbled and concocted version of history, which is part of the state propaganda machine`s attempt to turn the citizen into an ideological creature. This allows for no discussion, no intellectual discourse, no disagreement.

And so it goes in the state-managed electronic media. The citizen is bombarded everyday with religion. When the citizen wants healthy entertainment, the state gives him sermons. When the citizen wants openness, the state gives him closure. When the citizen wants objective news and views, the state gives him official hand-outs and news-gazettes. The citizen wants to hear and make up his_ own mind. But the state has already made up his mind for him. The citizen wants to know why things are so wrong. But the state tells him how right things are. The citizen wants to be proud of his regional cultures and languages but the state discourages regional expression. The citizen is proud of Pakistan`s diversity but the state is alarmed by it. The citizen wants provincial autonomy but the state wants to give him district autonomy. The citizen wants genuine decentralization but the state wants more federal controls. The citizen wants a simplification of procedures but the state keeps complicating matters. The citizen wants the government to be a facilitator but the state obstructs everything and everyone. The citizen wants efficient government but the state provides more red tape. The citizen wants end to discretionary powers but the state finds ways of greater self-empowerment. The citizen wants better schools, health-care and social services but the state is happy to let them degenerate. The citizen wants less government, the state gives him more. The citizen want responsive government, the state gives him official arrogance. The citizen wants accountability, the state gives him selectivity. The citizen wants the rule of law, the state gives him legal expediency. The citizen wants less law and more order, the state gives him more law and less order. The citizen wants criminals to be punished, the state cuts deals with them. The citizen wants all to be equal in law, the state believes and acts as though some are more equal than others in law. The citizen wants no exceptions, the state makes the army and judiciary to be solely exempted. The citizen wants a strong judiciary, the state hands down one PCO after another. The citizen wants an impartial judiciary, the state wants it wedded in its favour.

This is not the end of the story. The more insensitive the state becomes to the needs of its citizens, the more Pakistan goes wrong. The state has become cavalier and high-handed, driven by a blinding single-agenda ambition to avenge the defeat of December 1971 at the hands of India. It has blown the faults of politicians out of proportion. Instead of isolating and condemning some corrupt politicians, the state has demonized all politics. The more the state is driven by a_ national security agenda, the more it drives itself into economic and international isolation. With politics now a dirty word and the two main national parties under siege, the space is empty. Negative forces are therefore rushing in to fill the vacuum. In this turmoil, can the country achieve its national goals? I do not think so. Pakistan has learnt no lessons either from its own history or from contemporary times. The fall of Dhaka, the fall of the Soviet Union, and the fall of the Ottoman Empire tell us something. In each case, the state became deaf and blind to its citizens. In each case militaristic decisions based on arrogant reasoning caused disaster.

The time has come for Pakistan to grow up, to face the stark reality. The citizen has spoken up time and again. The state must now listen to him. Instead of being the biggest hurdle in the way of the citizen and sap his energy and creative potential, the state should correct itself. This is not a poor country. It has been impoverished. The state must now give space to the citizen and to civil society. If the state and the citizen can agree to harmonise, Pakistan can become a great powerhouse of growth and prosperity. But if the state refuses to listen to the citizen, it will forever lose the path to Mr Jinnah`s Pakistan.

welwyn...que suerte, yaar. (refiero a tus viajes a espana...especialmente a granada...es el architecto magnifico o que?) me gusto que hay otros desis que pueden hablar en espanol...creas que, (mahim tu tambien) que podiamos tener una mezcla de spanurdu como tomamos urenglish? las posibilidades!

pues, escribe me. fatimazehrarizvi@hotmail.com. ojala que podremos praticar (o yo podia) espanol. creo que mi gramtica no es que sera....

rizvi.

Re: scout

``I hope she/they are recovering well.``

I hope so too...they were both really sad at the end.

FerozK

Thank you for your analysis. There is only one conclusion that can be drawn from this scenerio (assuming that it is true) that it is impossible to stop the fight for freedom in Kashmir. Now it is a test of will. A test of will of the people of Kashmir and a test of will of Hindu-stani Army as to how long they will tolerate the indifference of their political leadership to find a political solution to this never-ending war and continue sending coffins and body bags back home.

A study of history of nations-both contemporary and past-has always brought anyone to only one conclusion:

WILL OF PEOPLE ALWAYS WINS.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIGHT PEOPLE.