La Excepcion (The Exception)

ravik:#119

Thank you for your admonishment to asifkh.His views are an anti-thesis of Islamic teachings.

I think he got worked up.

and I sincerely hope that he recants and apologises to US all.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

Re: Harpreet/Sahiti:

Poor Asif has really touched a nerve, hasn`t he? I am surprised that such an intelligent girl as Sahiti would spend (waste) so much time composing such a vitriolic, deeply-thought out, polysyllabic response to someone that she claims to have no respect for. Usually I press the ignore button for people like that, and save my brain cells for the people I really like.

Cheers!

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/feb/11jk5.htm

``Lashkar chief threatens Vajpayee, Advani

The Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Tayiba has again threatened to target Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Home Minister Lal Kishenchand Advani apart from sensitive targets as long as the Indian Army remains in Jammu & Kashmir.

The leader of the terrorist group, Mohammed Hafiz Sayeed, also opposed direct talks between India and Pakistan on Kashmir though he welcomed the idea of an All-Parties Hurriyat Conference delegation visiting Pakistan. He, however, claimed that the Indian government itself did not want this.

In what is claimed to be his first media interview, the terrorist leader told TV channel Aajtak that the `jihad` (holy war) against India would continue and there would be more attacks of the kind that took place in the Red Fort in Delhi last December... ``

HOW CAN YOU FIGHT A WOMAN-A MOTHER?

So the earthquake tragedy has brought the two archrivals to start talking to each other. Door Darshan is showing Pakistani Cargo planes delivering life saving drugs and food to the earthquake victims. We havent forgotten the same gestures of goodwill when the Prime Butcher of India i.e. Mr. Vajpayee who stands on the stiltoes of RSS and VHP and want us to beleive that he is tall; was walking on the roads in Lahore.

Has anyone ever noticed that whenever such gestures of goodwill are shown by the Hindu-stani government, behind the curtains they double the speed of their genocidal machine working in Kashmir.

Kashmir has once again bore the wrath of shameless Hindu-stanis when their paid agents burnt 15 Muslims alive in their house last Thursday. Their crime-they were Kashmiris; their crime-they showed their disgust with the tyrrants. Once again Hindu-stani Army has shown its professionalism.

I have just one question to ask from the 700,000 strong army-from this fire breathing dragon of steel and gun-powder; Can you fight a mother? How can one fight a mother who teaches his fatherless son only one lesson-Bring me the heart of our enemy who took your father away; who took my husband away. A mother who raises the phoenix from the fire that burnt her house down. CAN YOU FIGHT HER?

All Kafirs beware!!!

(Koran 76: 4) ``Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire.``

Wow, who said Jehad has cost Pakistan foreign investment.

``LAHORE, Feb 12 Asia Pulse - A Belarussian tractor manufacturer will set up an assembly plant in the Punjab capital which is likely to start its operations this year.

An official of the company said this during the visit of Belarussian deputy foreign minister Vasily Pugatchev to the Lahore Chamber of Commerce & Industry.

The Belarussian tractor manufacturer has decided to set up its `plant because of higher duties on the import of completely built up [CBU] units. The company would import CKD kits for their local assembly. The company produces some 50 models of tractors ranging between 8HP and 150HP.``

Rajanjua #112

My initial reaction was due to the frothing exhibited by urstuly. A crock of crap, to put it kindly. So no point in revisiting his tired tirade.

You said: The 5000 years Jewish history is that of getting their asses whuped. The last 50 years are an anomaly. Kind of similar to that of Bharatis.``

You seem to be mixing up the timeframes, but the fact today is that no other part of the wretched mideast is more vibrant than that little pocket. Reminds me of that little village that held out in the Asterix yarns.

But one thing we always had was an intellectual tradition--one that helped a tiny community produce thousands of times its fair share of intellectual breakthroughs and advances. The mind is more powerful than the sword, if you know what I mean.

You can go on and on about muslim achievements in the past. You know what, when that happened, your ancestors were probably hindus who were at the receiving end.

Dude, before you accuse me of some nice things, may I point out that my ancestors on my mother`s side [and part of my father`s as well] who were in the service of the moors got screwed with the inquisition.

Mahim, my apologies for taking up your space
but let me project once again
``THE PURPOSE OF CHOWK``
and to remind Urstruly and company plus people like Pardesi that some of us want to see beyond their their selective versions of the truth.

Some of us are stupid enough to seek a brighter tomorrow for those we left behind in South Asia.
Let me end here with another opinion piece from

The News International today (Jang Group):


Relevance of Track-III diplomacy

By Dr Moonis Ahmar

Two years after the issuance of ``Lahore Declaration`` it is time to take stock taking of Indo-Pakistan relations. The on-going but shaky process of dialogue between New Delhi and Islamabad at different levels could significantly contribute for the de-escalation of tension in South Asia. While Track-I and Track-II initiatives involve official and non-official circles, the holding of Track-III dialogue could prove to be more effective than other diplomatic endeavours.

After a break of around two years, Track-I diplomacy between India and Pakistan is slowly and gradually picking up. The telephonic conversation between the Indian Prime Minister and Pakistan`s Chief Executive in the aftermath of earthquake in India and various low-key official contacts may prove to be useful in breaking ice and reducing the level of hostility, yet it will be a wishful thinking to expect some major breakthrough in Indo-Pak relations. This is so because the policy makers of New Delhi and Islamabad lack the ability and tact to make bold and imaginative decisions for the resolution of their conflicts.

The problem with Track-I diplomacy in the context of Indo-Pak normalisation process is that the parties concerned are unable to build a strong ``peace constituency`` in their countries. When the Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee had visited Lahore two years ago, the entire programme lacked the support of different segments of Pakistani society. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif with the help of his Indian counterpart had unleashed the ``Lahore process`` or ``bus diplomacy`` but without taking the public opinion of his country into confidence. Neither Indian nor the Pakistani officials are courageous enough to deviate from their established but rigid positions because of so-called political backlash. On these grounds, Track-I diplomacy on account of its weaknesses and contradictions is not considered as promising and only through effective Track-II and Track-III initiatives could a proper ground be created for resuming the stalled Indo-Pak normalisation process.

As far as Track-II diplomacy is concerned, it basically involves non-officials but with some influence on the policy making process of their country. Since the officials of India and Pakistan in view of their serious conflict over Kashmir do not feel comfortable to talk to each other directly, dialogue going on at the Track-II level form basis for discussion between the two countries of thorny issues.

However, the problem with Track-II diplomacy is that it can discuss unresolved issues at various fora, but neither most of its suggestions/recommendations are implemented at the policy making level nor it is able to disseminate its ideas and concepts at the popular level.

The Indian High Commissioner in Islamabad pointed out the other day the failure of Track-II diplomacy in showing any positive change in Indo-Pak relations. But, one needs to be aware of the fact that it is the governments who make decisions and non-officials can only give their suggestions for resolving contentious issues. As a result, when on some occasions the activities of Track-II diplomacy are reported in the media, it doesn`t carry positive impact on public opinion. Rightly or wrongly, there also exists perception in different circles that most of the Track-II initiatives are sponsored by Western sources. The lack of indigenous basis of Track-II diplomacy also effects its role and credibility.

As far as Track-III channel is concerned, it is primarily limited to the interaction of common people. In case of India and Pakistan, the importance and relevance of Track-III diplomacy is because of three reasons. First, unlike Track-I and II, in Track-III process, popular segments of society like workers, artists, poets, musicians and others are involved. The exclusion of semi-elites from Track-III diplomacy gives a credible image of activities launched under its ambit.

When people of India and Pakistan meet on different occasions they share common things which prove to be useful in building bridges of friendship in South Asia. Second, in Track-III diplomacy, vested interests do not matter because the interaction of common people is not aimed to seek personal benefits but to broaden the involvement of common people in resolving hard pressing problems. If Track-I and II may be considered as superficial exercise, Track-III is more indigenous and genuine. Indo-Pak Peoples Forum for Peace and Democracy is a vivid example of how without foreign funding or covert official support, the common people of the two countries can get together and discuss issues of critical importance.

Finally, since under the auspices of Track-III wide participation from different segments of society is ensured, it becomes easier to remove mistrust and suspicion at the grassroots level. Masses of India and Pakistan share common problems and through their interaction under the programmes of Track-III, it becomes possible to create more awareness among people about the need and necessity of resolving economic, political and security issues. Therefore, without any shadow of doubt, it is Track-III diplomacy, which is more effective than Track-I and II.

Some of the obstacles, which are present in the process of Track-III diplomacy, relate to the role of official policy in restraining people to people contacts. Ironically, under the Track-I, there is no problem for those involved in negotiations to visit each other`s countries but in case of Track-II and Track-III, sometimes, it becomes very difficult to obtain visas.

In the absence of a liberal visa policy on the part of India and Pakistan, to carry out the activities under Track-III appears to be an uphill task. Funding to sponsor Track-III programmes is another difficult issue because unlike the Western counties where there is a tradition of philanthropy, in Pakistan there are very few individuals or institutions who contribute for peace-building activities. Most important, the absence of a conducive environment for bringing people of India and Pakistan together also discourages efforts for Track-III diplomacy.

Given the inability of Track-I diplomacy to better Indo-Pakistan relations, there is a need to follow an integrated approach for Track-II and III. With the close coordination between the activities carried out under Track-II and Track-III, it will be possible to seek proper results in a short span of time. All such individuals and organisations involved in these two channels of diplomacy need to know each other and merge some of their programmes. Since the objective of non-official dialogue or people to people contacts is to de-escalate tension between India and Pakistan and minimise the chances of the outbreak of hostilities, it is essential that under the framework of Track-II and III enough pressure is exerted on the officials to see wisdom and abandon their rhetorical positions on various critical issues.

Track-III diplomacy is a means to minimise mistrust and suspicion between the people of India and Pakistan. Such an approach needs to be supported at the policy making level because it is the people in the two countries who are paying the price of confrontation and proxy war.

The author is Associate Professor, Department of International Relations, University of Karachi

asifkh:

Ouch! I am sorry mate, I told Sahiti not to take you too seriously. But let me give you a piece of advice, dont bother climbing in any deeper because she really hates you for some reason.

And she is 100% hazardous acid when riled.

But I am personally looking forward to your reply, because every time you open your mouth I cant stop laughing.

regards

Harpreet

asifkh:

(this is a response from my friend Sahiti who is an occasional reader of Chowk and is one of the people who has been laughing at your posts. Enjoy....)



man, i have come across creeps like you a million times before.you are a wondourously pompous buffoon. despite your fantasising about your amourous prowess it is amusing to read the hallucinations of a hate filled mysoginist like you. i dont feel resentful, i laugh at you. it has been observed that racists objectify the women of the object of their hatred, wanting to impregnate those they hate in order to gain obsessive delusional control over them. you illustrate it perfectly. the point also being that a true lothario does not boast about their conquests. your harem was only populated by your right hand and beat up copies of hustler magazine. most women are intelligent, you see, and wouldnt fall for a self loving pompous baboon like yourself.

it is a common hallucination of those obsessed (as you are by hindus)with a consuming hatred to seek to degrade them. with your deeply misogynistic mindset it gives you comfort to seek to humiliate the other by boasting about your conquest of ``their`` women. women are virginal chattels, commodities to be despoiled. well it is up to individuals to sleep with whom they want (though i doubt any of them did it with you unless you paid them for the jig-jig).i am a hindu girl. but i would ask you to take a look around.i see muslim pakistani girls searching for satisfaction away from their anointed homes every day, especially here in the england. i bet its the same in america as well, and with pompous excuses for men like you around i hardly blame them.

{in fact you better keep a lock and key ready, the karmic subtleties of zen share the hindu(spit!) belief in karma, what goes around comes around. your sisters or daughters are probably enjoying some kaffir company right now!}

returning to zen, well, harpreet has already pointed out that it is derived from indian vedic hindu buddhist thought you silly little banana. so follow your allergy (i hope it doesnt give you a rash, you are probably ugly enough as it is....) and dump it as well. there is plenty of simplicity and beauty in the basics of islam to follow, including treating all women with respect and dignity. you idiot.

now go to your bedroom, pen another nazi hate letter against hindus, and relieve yourself with your right hand (like the serial killer necrophiliacs who masturbate over the dead bodies of those they hate so much they kill....)



i bet you have a fat belly, and a stretch marked and hairy backside as well.....

urrrgh!

love

Sahiti P. Siva

London

11th February 2001

c/o

harpreet

Humsab #95

You ask me what is Brahminical logic while at the same time providing two first-class examples of it yourself. You claim not to believe in the Hindu caste-system while at the same time you make a cheap caste jibe. And you do this knowing full well that the commninty I belong to is not the same as and made of very different stuff to those fudhus in Haryana and Western UP that the Bahmans have at their beck and call.

BTW, you should tell the Maharajahs of Patiala, Jind, Faridkot, Kaithal and Malaud that they belong to the `3rd category`. I`m sure they will be very interested to hear what Mother India thinks of them. People like you are living proof that India is DOOMED.

The other piece of Brahmincial logic you provide is in the article in your post #96. The author deliberately inverts the chronological sequence of historical events to make it look as though the instrument of accession supercedes the UN resolutions when in fact the reverse is the true. The UN resolutions demanding a referendum to decide the future of the disputed territory of Kashmir were passed AFTER the instrument of accesion of J & K was supposedly signed. But the author of this article knows that this proves that the instrument of accession, if it exists at all, has never been accepted by the world as a legally valid and binding document. And that the Indian prescence in Kashmir against the wishes of her native people is illegal as well as immoral.

Jihadis, the equal opportunity murderers, do not spare even ``their own``. Read below how innocent muslim children and women are butchered. Sikhs and Hindus have no reason to complain. Coward bean counting Indian leadership which lacks an iota of self respect needs to have the balls to pursue these fanatics and deliver them at their home what they pray for every day - shahadat.

* * *

http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/20010211/ina11036.html

7 kids among 15 killed in ceasefire`s worst massacre

BHARAT BHUSHAN & SHYAM SOOD

RAJOURI, FEBRUARY 10: In the worst massacre of civilians since the Ramzan ceasefire was announced three months ago, militants are suspected to have struck in a remote village in the border district of Rajouri killing at least 15 members of three Muslim families. The dead include three women and seven children. This happened hours after four Lashkar militants stormed the police control room in Srinagar and killed eight policemen.

Sources said the massacre occurred last night in Salohi village in the Budhal tehsil but security forces came to know of it only this morning. One reason is the treacherous terrain: one has to trek for at least 10 hours to reach the nearest road from the massacre site.

Officials added that was there was no clear confirmation as to who was behind the killings. They said that 15 charred bodies were found from inside three shelters which were also burnt down.

Sources said the victims were the relatives of four Village Defence Committee members, Abdul, Sharief and Guzral, who were killed as well. These three also worked as porters for Army units deployed in the area.

Troops who reached the massacre site from Mahore have launched a massive manhunt to track down the killers.

Mufti Islah adds from Srinagar: A militant, a taxi-driver and eight policemen were killed and 12 injured in the police control room sneak-in attack which ended early this morning.

Sources said only one Lashkar-e-Tioba militant had been killed contrary to the police`s earlier claim that all four militants were gunneddown. Sources said the other three escaped under the cover of darkness and the barrage of gunshots. A Lashkar spokesman said that the group had ``lost`` only one militant, Abu Mauya, and three have returned to their hideouts.

According to a police officer, however, two militants have been killed. He said that two jawans were killed in the initial burst offiring after militants ran towards the high-security installationhousing hundreds of personnel, including senior officers. The officialsaid Romesh Jalla SP (South) and 12 colleagues were stable. The slain arehead constables Abdul Majid, Tariq Ahmad, Javeed Ahmad, Mohan Lal, ShameemAhmad, Zahoor Ahmad, Raj Singh and Farooq Ahmad (driver).

The officer said that four militants stopped at the PCR junction afterdisembarking from a taxi (KMT-936), lobbed four handgrenades and opened fireon the cops manning the main gate killing one guard on the spot. He said as many as a dozen personnel were also injured.

The officer said two or three militants managed station themselves in thebuilding adjacent to the SP`s office. Later, the Army and the BSF launched an operation to flush them out. One militant was killed in the encouter and the two others escaped.

The PCR is centrally located and neighbours somne important installationslike the Civil Secretariat, Fire Station, High Court, besides the AuditorGeneral`s building.

Meanwhile, the Lashkar-e-Toiba, warned policemen against carrying out ``extra-judicial killings.`` Salauddin Ayubi, the Lashkar spokesman, said that if the police, especially the Special Operations Group, do ot ``delink`` themselves from counter-insurgency operations, policemen would be targeted.

Among the injured are Romesh Jalla SP (South) and 12 colleagues. The slain are: head constables Abdul Majid, Tariq Ahmad, Javeed Ahmad, Mohan Lal, Shameem Ahmad, Zahoor Ahmad, Raj Singh and Farooq Ahmad (driver). The taxi driver has been identified as Mohammad Sidiq.

krashid

# 102

Long long ago, I had problems in making you understand what i tried to convey through a post written in simple english. But since, you refuse to understand what you don`t want to, I gave up taking that as my own linguistic inadequacies. Then I found that every other person from your hated list has a communication problem with you. This # 102 is in the same category.

Anyway, but I thought muslims don`t believe in Caste then why this `Who Cares for second rate`?

Just a correction, It is not second rate, it is third rate.

Regards and keep on living in your own dreamworld.

Mahim #72 & #113:

[I had never heard about the other books you mentioned. thanks. I`ve also been influenced a lot by Hermann Hesse, especially Steppenwolf. You must check it out. Also Camille Paglia, a super feminist, de Beauvoir amongst others.]

--You`re welcome. As for the others you`ve mentioned - nah.... not interested in any of them anymore - already been through my various phases... and they don`t seem to have done a lot of good for me in any way! Come to think of it, I don`t think any book or author has ever influenced me much.

[Lubna, what I meant by getting your hands dirty at Civil or Jinnah hospital was that those who have the time and money should go and do some volunteer work.]

--Huh? Er.. I think you`re mistaking me for Ms Shirin Ahmed post #70.

As for temporal`s work... (t, mind if I...? :))

Mahim, see that ``Search Articles`` under the banner up there? Type in t_e_m_p_o_r_a_l (w/out the underscores! :)) and voila! But I don`t remember any poems by `temporal` being published here by Chowk. That doesn`t mean he doesn`t write any - he`s written some very good transcreative stuff - but for that you`ll just have to visit his Dargah I suppose... (cyber-dargah that is...) As for the directions to this place, how about cutting and pasting the following link?

http://chowk.com/people/Tools/cc_printhome.cgi?temporal

(And if you`re lucky, (AND if you follow the interactive threads with a little more attention and interest), you just might come across a verse or two by his all time favourite living poet, `Anon Anonabadi`.... Selected and posted in some of the interacts every now and then by either temp himself or one of the other AA club members..... I must add AA`s work is just as good as temp`s, if not better. :))

PM #92:

[``Super feminist``, though?? Methinks you`ve got her pegged wrongly.]

--Pat, I`m assuming she was referring to Simone de Beauvoir when she used that term. Makes sense then.

URstruly,

Your piety is sooo touching. Next time you post an open letter to our evil jawans to mend their evil ways, call me. I`ll arrange an audio background to your posts with me playing the violin.

But if you have ANY manners, I think you owe Mahim an apology for hijacking her thread. I think we all owe Mahim an apology for diverting the subject. You have mine, Mahim, if you tell me stop it--I`ll stop right after this post. You are very polite, but your comments in the last post are well taken.

URstruly, I think you flamed almost every recent thread with Kashmir-- which you know will inevitably lead to India-Pakistan mudslinging; which will then inevitably lead to hindu-muslim insults. This same thing happened a few months ago.

If you really want a downright mudsling war on Chowk THAT badly; lets go for it! I personally have no problems--I give as good as I get. I`m sure my best friend on Chowk, RSaxena will be on my side:)

When it comes to trading insults, Saxena`s the king, the Hindu atom bomb! Thats why we have such a loving bond of hatred:) Your Islamic bomb Ali1 can give some zingers; but he has no class. He`s good at shooting superb vulgar insults--I`ll grant you that. However, thats his only forte.Let me put it this way, he`s a wee bit er..how shall I say this? er... IQ challenged.

Let me tell you something! the last time this happened, some pious Pakistani(Riaz, was it? I dont remember the name) wrote an article how Chowk has lost all civility ever scince INDIANS started posting on Chowk!! Like Pakistani posters are the most polite, civil people on earth!!! Then other pious Pakistanis chimed in agreement! You guys sure know how to dish it out. But when you get a taste of your own medicine, you get all hurt & offended & blame us Indians (esp hindus)about being uncouth & ill mannered! If you live in a glass house dont throw stones at us.

I appeal to Chowksters & Chowk to set at least some guidelines here. I think the editorial staff hasnt come out & said they dont approve of an all out insulting match. Knowing many Chowsters (Indian & Pakistani), a vast majority of them will get turned off by this, I`m sure of that. But then if you are; please tell MR URstruly to stop continuing this crap.

Yes,now I am getting mad at him!

I dont know about you guys. I think URstruly is making Chowk a pretty ugly place by constantly posting anti-Indian & anti-hindu propaganda--whether it is related to the topic or not. If he thinks its going to fundamentally change any Indian`s view, he`d have more luck if he masterbated physically than verbally:) (Sorry about the vulgarity ,scout; but I`m a little ticked off at him, right now).Its going to start a fight & degrade the civility on Chowk. I dont mind giving & recieving insults; even vulgar ones, I laugh heartily in these mudslinging matches. (I still crackup at Ali1`s classic--``dhoti clads``:) )

But I dont think most Chowksters are as thick skinned as moi.

Lubna, what I meant by getting your hands dirty at Civil or Jinnah hospital was that those who have the time and money should go and do some volunteer work. The person to contact is Dr. Seemin Jamali, who is head of casulty and is a wonderful woman who has turned around the emergency services at Jinnah Hospital. If you are or anyone else, is interested in donating money or helping out please email me or post it here.

The SIDHARTHA COMPLEX is what I have now. No use in sitting at the computer when there is work, work, work, to be done to help people. I`m tired of living in this materialistic bubble and am going to gather me wits about me and do something in this lifetime.

Temporal, I talked to shandy and she said your work was posted here. I can`t seem to find it. Could you navigate? I`d like to read your poem.

love mahim.

I have never scrolled down so much stuff in my life. Concerned about the Hindu Muslim issue, the Kashmir issue, go help them with more than words.