This Visit To Pakistan

krashid #281 Good to see your post. Actually this interaction with Mr. Adnan (and earlier with Barister Amir) has been quite fruitful for me personally since it has served as a good cross-check to my understanding of the Quran.

I think it is too bad that so many people are put off from studying (not just reciting without understanding) the Quran since they think what the Jamaatis and maulvis say is based on the Quran. If they did, they would find the opposite is true. In addition, it is a joy to read the Quran and the simple, clear, beautiful, tender and consistent way in which the message of Allah is conveyed. Nothing like the message of hatred towards different groups of people that one routinely hears from the maulvis.

adnan #276 ``ur assertion that we dont need the Prophet for guidence and reading the quran ``

Please dont put words in my mouth and confuse the issue: I have been consistently emphasizing that you should listen to the message from Allah that the Prophet conveyed to mankind. The message is simple and clear. It is you who have been consistently detracting from this message by referring people to the religious books authored by men rather than the one we muslims believe was authored by Allah and conveyed to us by the Holy Prophet. In earlier interactions, I have quoted verses from the Holy Book at your request to support points I made, and it is you who have avoided accepting the clear implication of those verses.

I think I will end this discussion at this point since it is getting nowhere - if you refuse to heed the Quran itself then there is nothing anyone can do to convince you. I too regret some remarks I have made that were directed at you personally since that is wrong. And I wish you peace and blessings and guidance from Allah, just as I wish the same for myself and for every other individual even as I am appalled by the unwillingness of some of them to trust their God-given eyes and to use their God-given minds and the ease with which they follow other men.

ROmair,

What is going on? You end your posts with the name ``Umairr``. Have you changed your screen name?

If you are Umairr, how come youre not telling me if you are the same Umair Khan who started Chowk? Are you playing head games with this shrink?!:)

Siagalph 235#272

These are historical facts which you are telling.

Mudazallah Aleh Naqsbandi will listen to rhetoric only.

And I still believe Pakistan was created to implement Shariah. This experiment started in mid fifties will continue till the end of Pakistan.

And Naqsbandi will say. ``Woh To Pakistan Khatum Ho Gaya Warna Shariah To Nafiz Ho sakti Hai``.

I am afraid your country is to small to flirt with the experiment of Shariah instead of alleviating the plight of your people.

And as Ibn-e-Insha said ``In olden times the less was the teritory the bigger the ``Alqab`` with kings name. I see the same thing in Mudazalleh Aleh Naqsbandi style.

Adnan 672 #274

Bhai Fuzair Pe Kiyun Garam Hote Ho.

Read the post of Naqshbandi. He wrote it. Fuzair was only responding to it.

Or even Naqsbandi is unawaqe of Wahhabism and Modudiism.

Are we going to witness another cycle of throwing people out of the CIRCLE of Islam.

As Ibn-e-Insha said. ``Pehle Is Mein Logon Ko Dakhil Karte The. Ab Nikalte Hain``.

May be this is a form of family planning.

The gretest irony is that there are more than one billion Muslims in world and most of them are out of fold of Islam, if so called scholars of different sects are to be believed.

RShivsena#

When you evolve from monkey to ape let me know.

By your post you appear to be going in a negative evolution with less survival advantage.

Waise Yeh Buhat Accha Hai Kai Tu Musalman Nahin. Tujhe Kaun Sambhalta.

Waise Is Khushi Ki Khabar Ke Baad Ke Tu Musalman Nahin Taleban Ki But-Shikni Jaez Hai.

ROmair #234

I don`t see your logic.

You probably belief in a totally good or totally bad philosophy.

The inning Imran declared was on the last day and there was no possibility of any result of the match and there was no result. Score of 300 is a very great achievement and both Imran knew and Miandad knew this very well. And both acted according to their ``Zarf``.

Also writing a best-seller in no way puts a person in the category of Highly educated. If today Monica Lewinsky writes a book it will be best-seller. Or ``Inkishafat`` by body guard of Clinton might be best-seller.

Did I ever in any of my post told that SKMH is not a good work. But who are the real philanthropist.

And I agree with your last point. Pakistani leaders should be either choosen by military or leave it on auto pilot. This is the best descripion you have given regarding the condition of Pakistan. And I totally agree with you on this.

Our leaders including Z.A.Bhutto as compared to Mujib. Nawaz Sharif as compared to Benazir and Benazir as compared to Nawaz Sharif and again Nawaz Sharif as compared to Benazir were all chosen by Military with ``HEAVY MANDATES``. And Z.A.Bhutto was unrealistic, but both Benazir and Nawaz Sharif realized it soon and that is why they knew where the real power is and what their job is. And don`t worry future leaders elected by Military will realize very soon what their job is. ``Khao Aur Khane Do``

TAhmed #236

Again you Sir have hit the nail on head.

As some sage said ``Islam Naal Ki Lena Hai``

They have their own agenda whether it is in accordance with Koran or not does not matter.

And I fully agree with you that sectarian killing is done by sectarians themselves.

And this agency thing is a Jamati excuse.

I will tell you a good incidence of Jamati excuse.

During a Jihad against Kafirs meaning National Student Federation, two Jamati`s opened the head of NSF supporter by iron rod. An FIR was lodged. The Jamati were telling their brainless supporters that FIR is wrong and those two Jamatis have not done it. A brainless was telling me this. I asked him. O.K those two Jamati`s have not done this. But it cannot happen by itself. So tell me who has done this. His mouth was open as if taken by surprise. But did not answer.

So don`t worry it is called Jamati politics and they think this is the real Islam.

TAhmed #257

In reply to Adnan.

Have you noticed the pure Islamic way of pardoning the killer.

They consider themselves next to God and ``Ummati`` of Rasool who said that ``By God if Fatima would have stolen, I would have cut her hand. Nations before you were destroyed because they used to pardon your powerful and punish the weak``.

Sir In Ko In Ke Islam Pe Chor Dein.

Jawab To Khuda Ko Dena Hai. In Charion Ko Nahin.

Asif Naqsbandi #251

Bhai Yeh Hazir Nazir Rasool Kia Hai.

At least spare us your B.S which you are thinking as Islam.

Godot #261

Your point is well taken.

A lesson in politics. If the people are hungry, have no clothes etc, give them the task of demolishing the idols.

By the way if Afghans were jews, they would secretly sell these idols for money.

But- Farooshi. Like Aslaha Faroshi by world powers.

Sadna:

aoa

U shd at least bother to read the other persons postings properly before commenting on them

1. I never condoned the destruction of the statues, I merely pointed out wht the Taliban possibly made the basis of this decree.

Secondly, where are adnan and Naqshbandi listed ......

2. I never question anyones faith i simply put forward wht i and the majority of muslims have considered islam to be for the last 1400 yrs. This info. i have gathered by reading works by muslim jurists and scholars and also a few orientalists the balanced ones .

3. Pl. read various comments on the blasphemy thread

to see who questions the faith of whom

4. And try to mantain objectivity in ur postings.

wassalaam



adnan

tahmed:

``Please be serious. If you dont have any proof, be ....``

My friend the kind of proof u demand i do not have, but i was a part of a student movement and i know the ways the intell. works, ull have to either accept this assertion as my statement which is true otherwise as i said not ur kind of proof. btw how much proof of the kind u demand has been gathered abt MNS and BBs crimes

Who will conduct out the bloodshed, and whose blood will be shed? The man......

My pt here is simply to avoid a greater evil things could have been worked out, he deserved to be hanged no doubt but look at wht has started

`` and that just makes you dishonest man -

such dishonest....``



then u write

``try to understand the Quran with an open mind, not one befogged by politics.``

& then

``I hope you will refrain from passing personal judgements (and insults) of this kind and stick to the issues.``

I could quote numerous instances from ur prev. postings whn u wrote something i pasted above

So i try not to pass judgements but u have been doing that constantly. btw i do apologize if i u found my comments in bad taste but it is nonetheless wht i beleive ur problem to be.

So bck to the issues The basic difference i see is ur assertion that we dont need the Prophet for guidence and reading the quran and interpreting it in any way we like is the foundation of Islam

I disagree, I did post some verses from the quran on this in a previous post.

I also advised u to read Maudoodis ``Sunnat Ki Ainee Haysiyat`` on this issue.

wassalaam

adnan

Godot,

#26?

Haha! cool your jets, pal. Are you still smarting from being Tahmed`s bakra? Happens to the best of us:)

I must say, eventhough you flunked tahmed`s quiz, I`m impressed! You asked me a question & even took my answer from my mouth! What clairvoyance!

Dont worry, my turds will only be reserved for my best friend, Rshivsena. Er,for the record, HE destroyed Babri Masjid.

Saxena,

Tell your friend Godot how we love the hatred for each other. Man, if you EVER said anything nice about me, I`ll leave Chowk in embarrassment forever. Now, dont be getting any ideas!

Fuzair:

My friend

1. DO u know wht wahabism is?

2. Pl. throw some light on Maudoodi`s works where he aligns himself with the views of Mohd. bin Abd al Wahab

3. From ur posting it seems that u have neither read Maudoodi nor Wahabism (as u call it).

4. Ppl. like u have great courage to comment on others views without an iota of knowledge

adnan

Dear Naqsbandi:

AOA

Br. u r indeed doing a great job defending the faith against these secular anti islam elements who pay lip service to islam but when it comes to obeying allahs commandments they r the slaves of their ``nafs``

My only appeal to u is not to insult other religious figures, u may have ur differences with them (maybe justified ones), but this will just give ammo to these idiots who may argue with each other for hours over petty things but if two ulema differ then its ``look at ur islam, look at the maulvis etc``.

And do continue writing

wassalaam

adnan