This Visit To Pakistan

Hamidm

No one needs to be thrown out of Pakistan. We however need to establish a rule of law and principles of social justice. The Western style democracy, which turns into Indian style democracy, when sub-contintentalized, is un-acceptable. If its presence in India for 55 years is not a good indicator of a moral-less democracy then what is. We need a political system which is driven by our moral values and not of those of West or without morals like India (I have not used the term amoral though). Please excuse us if we refuse to be Aadha Titer Aadha Batair. Unlike you we have a plan and model of our intended polity and determination to execute this plan. We dont whine, we work against all odds. People like you, Indians or West are wind beneath our wings-we thank you for that.

Re: krashid

``Yes I am ashamed...``

Good, you have a lot to be ashamed of.

By the way, isn`t homosexuality un-Islamic?

Dear Hamidm #181, #182.

Hope I do not sound like your campaign manager, but you are witty, funny, yet damn serious. You are fluid, you are subtle, yet you are direct. It is indeed a unique style of yours in Chowk. As I mentioned before, you remind me of another great satirist from Calcutta, Sanjeeb Chattopadhaya. I hope to read you more, and God give more power to your pen! May be you can consider of one whole article instead of interactions. Of course, that depends on your time.

Sigalph, you also write very well, always to the point.

Regards.

Pankaj #176 Welcome to this thread where the music never stops :-)

Godot #175 That was a simple linear equation that a thirteen year old would be expected to understand. And you couldnt figure it out, you numbskull (you confused the value of the coefficient with the value of the variable). Instead of wasting your time worrying about the future of Pakistan on chowk, you should register for an adult literacy class.

Rsaxena #146

I don`t expect the same from you, I am pretty sure of this.

I colloqial term it is called BeGhairat.

Yes I am ashamed not with you but with Siagalph.

For you we are sending Jihadis to take your Dhoti off forever so I can see you naked in Park.

Naked aggressor.

Shankar #

I think you are right.

Since we Pakistanis in majority are prone to look at our Governement and its action with cynicism, we expect the same from Indians. But I think whatever people now say about Nehru, he put the foundation of India and delivered to its people. And probably people in India have not only respect but high expectations from Government especially the rising middle class.

As you mentioned regarding my remarks about Pakistan. I would appreciate Indian if he does the same but with justice. Not that his action in Kashmir is justified and there is no poverty in India and Pakistan is a hell.

I have worked with lot of Indians and I even know the caliber of highly touted education. (Few are off course superb). Any way to cut it short, let me relate to you my experience.

There was a certain doctor Kaul from Kashmir during my residency. We were very good colleague. He was a very hearty fellow and we would sit frequently talking and joking. After he came back from India during his vacation after his marriage his behaviour was changed and would not talk as before. I thought it might be due to his marriage. As some people change after marriage. But if I see now in retrospect, I can also think that it might be due to situation in Kashmir. And this makes me sad.

ROmair #

If you don`t forget your past post yet, you will remember you were trying to prove that Imran Khan and Pervez Musharraf (alongwith Dr Ata and Dr. Hoodbhoy) have a bright future waiting for them in foreign countries, but they are staying back in Pakistan because of the love of their country.

I know HoodBhoy personally. And your observation regarding him is wrong, I suppose. He will try to change society for better whereever he is. And he is fulfilling his own personality to its full extent in Pakistan. (It is not because of love of country per se).

As far as SKMH, it is a good work. But still Pakistan is providing him the opportunity and not other way round. Ask the people who made it posible. While during his election compaign on helicopter he even slapped one person who was trying to ask him some question. For SKMH he should be grateful to countless millions of Pakistanis who contributed to it . Can you give me some figure how much he contributed himself. I think you should reasses the meaning of word philanthropy. It is not opportunism as far as I know. I can tell you the name of philanthropist who donate in multi-crores every years and no body knows them that they are doing this.

And same goes with Pervez Musharraf. Which foreign country is waiting for him to be hailed as All in All (CEO) of their country.

Although I agree with your statement that 500,000 guns can be fired on his one command. Who knows it better than Pakistanis who have passed most of their lives under this 500,000 guns.

Dionysus #162

I fully agree with you on this.

In 1993 in Iran almost all of foreign specialist doctor would come from India on a salary equal to between 25,000-40,000 of Pakistani Rupees. Pakistani and Bangladeshi specialist were rare.

While specialist in Pakistan make this much or more, I don`t know about Bangladesh.

In General Practice the situation was equal for Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi.

The situation might have improved in India. But considering the number of doctors produced there I suppose it will be worse.

Another observation of mine is that. Doctors who went to Iran whether specialist or General Practioner were mostly from Kashmir and South India. In America the doctors are mostly from Dehli and Bombay.

It is just an observation of mine and in no way should be taken as a statistically accurate thing.

Also with current prosperity of south, I suppose south will be contributing to emigration of doctors to America in more numbers.

Ylh # In response to Naqshbandi.

Continue to hammer these Islamist.

In 1970`s when we were talking about Feudalism and Capitalism and the their power Old Naqshbandi type used to fight with us regarding sanctity of Private property in Islam and why Feudalism and Capitalism is good to the detriment of people.

Now they are talking about curse of Feudalism and Capitalism when it is now highly entrenched.

Now the power is highly entrenched. What we need is Government of the people for the people and by the people to take care of people`s business who elected them.

Naqshbandi, I ask you this question. Did prophet PBUH rode camel and used sword because of his time because there was no car and gun powder or not?. If you understand this simple analogy you will realize that our time demands new approach and not 1000 years or 1400 years old approach to which you are so fond of.

naqshbandi

...... and another reason i can`t stand the thought of shariah being implemented in pakistan is because of what hazrat bertrand russel (RA) said more than fifty years ago .......... he was able to say what he did and get away with his life and limb intact because he lived in that terrible place of your birth that you seem to despise so much ........ he said,

``There is one very serious defect to my mind in xxxxx`s moral character, and that is that He believed in hell. I do not myself feel that any person who is really profoundly humane can believe in everlasting punishment. xxxx certainly as depicted in the Gospels did believe in everlasting punishment, and one does find repeatedly a vindictive fury against those people who would not listen to His preaching -- an attitude which is not uncommon with preachers, but which does somewhat detract from superlative excellence. You do not, for instance find that attitude in Socrates. You find him quite bland and urbane toward the people who would not listen to him; and it is, to my mind, far more worthy of a sage to take that line than to take the line of indignation. You probably all remember the sorts of things that Socrates was saying when he was dying, and the sort of things that he generally did say to people who did not agree with him``

........... this argument is sort of compelling for those of us who are sceptical about the tooth fairy and sheik bin baaz`s flat earth theory and flying horses and the ability of the pir of uch sharif to impregnate barren women by walking on them with his stump of a leg ........

.......... may the good lord and the nsync boys protect my young and impressionable daughters from horrible young men like you ... amen .... and may the lord save your parents the agony and anguish of seeing you wasting your life sleeping in masajid the world over with thirty dirty old men .... and may they never see you return in a box from chechniya or kashmir ... amen

urstruly

......... i am still waiting for your reply on why you think seth dawood and mian mansha should be thrown out of pakistan .........

.......... i just received the latest issue of isalmic horizons - name one muslim country where a non muslim organization can utter such blasphemy ....... heck they won`t even allow a non-muslim to set a foot inside the city limits of Mecca ....

.......... as for brother naqshbandi - i think i know him : he is the one who gets all hot and bothered by britney spears and then complains about the lack of morality, takes off from work for a two hour juma prayer and then complains about discrimination when not promoted, gets ssi and state subsidized housing for his parents and then complains about the high tax rate, wants freedom of religion in the US but wants the shariah implemented in pakistan ......... now after being been jilted by the welsh bar-maid wants to to pakistan to find a virgin to add to his harem............

An extremely wise person wrote, and silenced me :

As a good Muslim, Muhammad Omar is not doing anything that is not sanctioned by Islam. It is not a medieval act unless one regards Islam as a medieval religion and not the ``removal of jahiliyat`` from the world. If we believe Islam to be medieval religion, we should say so instead of beating around the bush.

All good intentions apart, the first step in solving a problem is to identify the cause the problem. Blame the cause -- not the effect.

- Arun the Infidelator, who is henceforth going to blame the cause and not the effect.

Urstruly, this is the ``miracle`` by which nothing but Muslims are left on huge swathes of this earth. What sorry creatures you are !

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Afghanistan-Buddha.html

February 26, 2001

Taliban: Statues Must Be Destroyed

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 6:14 p.m. ET

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Afghanistan`s hard-line Taliban rulers ordered the destruction Monday of all statues, including a pair of monumental 5th century Buddhas towering over 100 feet tall and carved out of a mountainside.

The order came from the Taliban`s supreme leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, who issued an edict declaring statues, including the ancient Buddhas, as insulting to Islam.

``Because God is one God and these statues are there to be worshipped, and that is wrong, they should be destroyed so that they are not worshipped now or in the future,`` Omar said in his edict, published by the Taliban-run Bakhtar News Agency.

-Arun the Infidelator

Godot,

Inshallah!

Yasser Hamdani

re asif n`s

``why cannot Pakistan enforce shar`iat inside its own borders and yet be a full member of the international community?``

I will take the question head on. The reason, to which you may be oblivious, is that the world has changed significantly since the time of the late Mard-e-Momin Allama Ziaul Haq. In the darkes days of the Cold War the West was ready to overlook the transgressions of its dictatorial allies. With the coming down of the Berlin Wall, there has been a constant re-assertion, intellectually and morally, in the civilized world of the fundamental inviolability of God given rights.This ethic is gaining ground by the day on both sides of the Atlantic. Soon there will come a day when a country, notwithstanding its claims of sovereignty, will not be able to have any intercourse with the civilized world unless this country follows certain principles of fundamental fairness. This evolving consensus will require all those who wish to join in at the table of human civilization to adhere to the basic ideas of representative democracy, pluralism, civil liberties a la the Univ Declaration of HR, free economies and equality before law. For obvious reasons most such principles stand at sharp divergence with the sharia as known today. Hence, Pakistan with sharia cannot be a Pakistan fully accepted in the international community.

Oh, please save the lecture about Islamic human rights- I know the drill about how it is superior and gives more rights and the rest of the nonsense. Feel free to join in if you have something different to add.