This Visit To Pakistan

PS

When words are borrowed they are adopted as the language`s own... words like Ummet etc are now Urdu words also...

Yasser Hamdani

Dear Urstruly,

The matter is not to approach the Muslim World at large for that can be done in another ways... the problem we face is to rid Pakistani Islam of Arab cultural imperialism, and to secure our National frontiers, and hence our National Religion.

I think it should be absolutely clear that Principles of Pakistani Nationalism are the following.. (eversince Bangladesh became an independent country which it should ve been in 1947.)

1) National Language : Urdu

2) Muslim Culture

3) South Asian Civilization

These three things we have to incorporate to have a truly sovereign nation.

Yasser Hamdani

....... uimmah, ummet - who gives a flip .... i am still pissed off at allah-hafiz ... what happened to good old khuda-hafiz which i grew up with ???..... about ten years ago, without telling me, they switched ... at first i thaught it was the homely PIA stewardess who in addition to being plain was stupid .... then i noticed it was everyone else .... even my christian friends had switched - i guess for them it was a matter of survival ....... did this have something to do with the positioning of the dopatta on the heads of ptv announcers ? ..... or did we change gods ?? ... asif and adnan - please explain ...

........ and whaen did we start offering salat instead of namaz ?? ......... ``salat ka waqt ho gaya hai``..... what ?? ........ it was hard enough offering three fards - now we have to go through some convoluted bedouin ritual ? ........ and why are little children dressed up as arabs with rags on their heads ? .... and why are fat and ugly middle aged women wearing scarves, hijabs or whatever .... where did this come from ? ..... what happened to my grandmother`s black and grey burqas ?

........... should i be writing this note in arabic ? asthagfirullah ! ........ this is the kind of nonsense that will drive a man to drink and blow up giant buddhas ...........

Re: hamidm

So the crumbling mud hut with a $3000 Ethan Allen couch is better than the stable one-room studio made of concrete and wood? Face it, Pakistan is a nearly bankrupt sewage tank with no hope for the economy, a military dictator, religious nuts with AK-47s who will shoot anyone who condemns shariah, and as many friends as shankar when he is calling little girls ``cute jalapenos`` on the Internet. Name the last worthy contribution Pakistan made to the world...other than the big bang at the World Trade Center a few years ago.

(Even those wretched South Indians at least made their mark in IT.)

ylh--obviously your masters told you to talk in such a manner when you cant argue convincingly. What great manners they have taught you. btw, you are not worthy even to stand in the same room as Imam Hamza (nor am i but I can at least respect his greatness...)

I never said islam was just for the arabs--i merely pointed out the fact that it does have arabic roots and so much of the ibadat etc. is in arabic. Why dont you pray your salaH in Urdu then?

And the Qur`an itself says that it is a qur`an in the arabic language! When we die we all will be questioned in arabic... The muslim arabs are not better than the muslim non-arabs and vice-versa (except thru piety) BUT we should respect and love them [the muslim ones obviously] because our beloved Master and lord sayyidina wa mawlana muhammad al mustafa sal allahu alayhi wa sallam was an arab, indeed sayyid al arab (w`al ajam)!

And it is in the hadith that ALLAH created Huzoor Paak from the BEST of tribes and nations i.e. Quraysh.

I am proud to be a slave of the family of my beloved Prophet sal allahu alayhi wa sallam.

krashid-- you can read about that mas`ala on this site http://ummah.cjb.net

go to section 14 and then click on Holy Prophet Muhammad (sal allahu alayhi wa sallam). this will take u to two articles on hazir wa nazir. i hope u will read them...

ylh 307

The point is that whether you pronounce Ummah or Ummet,Salat or Salah the words remain Arabic. Urdu borrowed the Maccan accent though. However, I will side with you that the words should be pronounced as they are in Urdu on this site but again rest/most of the Muslim world follows the Medina accent therefore you get a benefit of reaching to a wider audience if you follow Madina accent.

shankar #286: There might be a photograph of Umair Khan on one of his companys` websites. My own guess is that he probably looks quite different from me. But since I have never met him, or seen him, I cannot be certain. Umair, along with Amir and a few others, seems to have been a common first name for newborns of my generation. So you will find quite a few Pakistani Umairs (and a lot of Amirs) in their thirties. I hope that answers you first question.

I ended up changing from Umairr to ROmair because, for some reason, many of my replies as Umairr would not show up on Chowk. It`s a Hindu conspiracy. They have hacked this site, gotten to the cgi scripts, which are handling the replies, and have successfully modified them. Pretty soon they will in our homes, on our TVs and Satellite Dishes, in our VCRs and cassette players, and in our magazine shops. Or has that already happened :-)

Shankar #286

If you read the interview of Umair Khan of clickmark you will notice that there is no mention of association with armed forces. While ROmair (previous Umair) has mentioned his association with armed forces in past.

I also reached this conclusion after reading Umair Khan of clickmark (Like Nawab of KalaBagh) interview.

Dear Sigalph,

I totally agree, as a matter of fact you can consider this a formal invitation on behalf of my future government to be a guest at the Prime Minister House... :)

Yasser Hamdani

Asif Naqsbandi #289

So tell me the ``Mas`ala`` of Hazir o Nazir Prophet.

Believe me I am from Pakistan and not Mars. I will try to understand your opinion regarding this.

Adnan 672 #291

I don`t see any logic.

Personal aside. That is tolerable. And I can give many incidences.

But I have asked you questions on other board regarding the Jamat-e-Islami.

As I am sure history is going to repeat itself again.

Jamat played a crucial role in maligning political parties in late fifties. And when Ayub Khan took the rein of power in his hand Jamat was instrumental in Ayub`s effort to curb the opposition. Later when Ayub Khan thought that opposition is curbed, Jamat-e-Islami started a movement against Ayub (political expediency) as the sole representative of people. Ayub was no pious. He did the same to Jamat-e-Islami what he did to other parties. That is why your Maulana Mowdudi supported Fatimah Jinnah.

The same story is being repeated again when all the political parties are maligned and Jamat was instrumental in this. Thinking and reiterating itself again as the sole spokesman of people. History will again repeat itself. Musharraf is no pious this time.

Now the questions:

1- Do you believe Yahya Khan was Mardi Momin. If not why did Jamat-e-Islami called him Mardi Momin.

2- The same question about Zia-ul-Haq.

3- While there was movement against Ayub Khan, why Jamat-e-Islami suddenly realized to launch ``Yom-e-Shaukat-e-Islam`` to divert the movement against Ayub Khan?

4- Why did Jamat-e-Islami supported the Army in its killing and rape of Bengalis.

5- Why did Jamat-e-Islami accepted ministership in Zia-ul-Haque regime?

6- Why did Jamat-e-Islami supported the referendum of Zia-ul-Haq in qhich it was said that if you like Islam elect Zia for 5 (or ten) years.

I can go on and go on. can you care to answer these few questions.

Adnan 672 #292

I don`t know where are you posting this from. If you believe in prophet`s words then no such thing exist as discord among Muslim due to which he did not kill Ubayy. I am giving quotations from Martin Ling book Mohammed published 1983 by George Allen and UnWin Ltd. I will give page number. Parenthesis is mine to show the continuity.

pp #108

One of the leading man of oais (Medina) Abdallah bin Ubayy was favored by many as possible king-----and it was exceedingly doubtful whether Aws would be capable of accepting a king (Ubayy) who was not of their tribe.

pp #128-129

Abdullah bin Ubayy was also felt himself to have been frustrated by the coming of prophet PBUH and---He likewise had bitterness of his own son Abdallah altogether won over by prophet, as well as daughter jamilah----(Ibn Ubayy did not want to fight prophet) Ibn Ubayy was prepared to wait, thinking that sooner or later the newcomers overwhelming influence would begin to ebb.----and as to Ibn Ubayy, he soon saw his influence dwindling and that if he did not enter Islam it would vanish altogether (so he accepted Islam)

pp # 161-162

He (Ibn Ubayy) had too often tasted the bitterness of being clearly shown by his once devoted followers that their allegiance to him was far outweighed by another allegiance (to Prophet PBUH).

(After many treacheries by Ibn Ubayy until battle of trench)

pp# 238

``Have they gone so far as this`` said Ibn Ubayy (regarding Immigrants or Mohajir) ``They seek to take precedence over us, they crowd us out of our own country---- (When prophet PBUH heard this) Umar who was with him, suggested that he should forthwith had the traitor beheaded, but he (prophet) said ``WHAT IF MEN SHOULD SAY O UMAR THAT MOHAMMED SLAYETH HIS COMPANIONS?``

(Then Ibn Ubay came to the prophet and said that he had said no such thing)---

Meanwhile Abdallah, the son of Ibn Ubayy was deeply distressed for he knew that his father has spoken those words -----So he went to the prophet and said ``O Messenger of God, I am told that thou art minded to slay Abdallah Bin Ubayy. If thou must needs to do it, then give me the order, and I will bring thee his head--- But the prophet said ``NAY, BUT LET US DEAL GENTLY WITH HIM AND MAKE THE BEST OF HIS COMPANIONSHIP SO LONG AS HE BE WITH US``

(After this on Aisha`s slander Ubayy played a role. Later he accompanied prophet to Hudabiyah)

pp # 322

----traditional account differ as to the state of soul in which he (Ubayy) died, but all are unaminous that the prophet PBUH led the funeral prayer for him and prayed besides his grave when he has benn buried.

Now these incidences which clearly show the sayings of prophet regarding the matter of Ubayy has no bearing with Haq Nawaz Jhangwi Case who was trialed for murder and given death sentence.

If you can bring some historical perspective from the books you mentioned regarding your assertion that prophet PBUH did not kill Ubayy because of discord in society. And moreover according to Islam nobody even president cannot pardon a murderer but only the family by accepting ``Khunbaha``

Adnan 672 #293

That post was a test for Naqsbandi.

But your response only allows me to say to you that stop your big mouthing and learn some Islamic manners before coming to this post.

And the Ayah you are referring is regarding Muslims being witness on other people and Muhammed being witness on Muslims on day of judgement. So it means that all the Muslims are Hazir Nazir also based on this Ayah you quoted.

Anyway do you believe that Prophet is Hazir Nazir or not. Please answer this question in Yes or No.

Urstruly,

I dont understand what the point of your post is... ummet for that matter is an Arabic Word... What I am merely saying is lets pronounce it the Urdu Way... as for Salaat, doesnt namaaz or Ibadat

sound better?

-Yasser Hamdani

naqshbandi and adnan(RA)

......i have always maintained that pakistan, inspite of religious crazies like you two - and i hope and pray that you live and die in the west fighting windmills - is a much better place than that cess pool across the border .... ayaz amir, in todays dawn, bears first hand witness to my claim :

``I even went to GP Road, Delhi`s answer to Hira Mandi. Patriotism need have no fears on this score: GP Road is not a patch on Lahore`s famed Bazaar of Beauty. Up narrow flights of stairs lie low-roofed tenements crowded with imports from Nepal, whose grasping attitude, driven by God knows what extremes of deprivation and poverty, gives them the aspect of predators. Before those grim sights even my stout heart quailed. ``

... rsaxena - eat your heart out !

re fuzair #295

You mention Deobandis, Wahabis, Maulana Maudidi etc. PLease add to that the Taleban, the JUI, the Sipah Sahaba, and the rest. And don`t worry about your inability to make the fine distinctions. Does it really matter that some of them only want to eliminate their opponents once while the others want to do it ten times over? A bigot is a bigot is a bigot no matter what ayat of the Qur`an he uses for his nefarious purpose.

Re asif n

``The Quran is an ARABIC Quran``. No sir. It is meant as a message to Mankind, including the vast, vast majority who don`t speak Arabic and have no desire to do so. Allah has no need to prefer a language (nauzubillah)-that`s a very human need like food and shelter. Most likely the Quran was sent in Arabic, just as most of the prophets were sent to that region, because those Bedouins needed to be reformed more than anybody else. Brother, you need to come out of this cultural imperialism that has mastered your heart and sould in the guise of equating Arabism with Islam. It is the same kind of nonsense I see in many expatriate Lebanese Orthodox Christians who think that true Christianity comes in the guise of an Arab culture. I have news for you: Allah is NOT Arab (He is Intelligent!)

re ylh

You go dude! Keep speaking up for the real Pakistan shunned of this recent Arab imperialism. WHen you make Prime Minister, I`ll personally ask the Prime Minister in DHaka to make me High Commissioner in Islamabad (but pal you have gotta re-open the clubs and allow for some entertainment).May be then between you, I, and Saxena babu we will fix this Kashmir thing for good while the Asif N and adnan types will be still praying for the huouris! What do you say?