This Visit To Pakistan

Masd #9:

[.....we are living here. want to built a better pakistan. want to play a role to make pakistan a more liberal and tolerant society. we are in the arena. and we are young too.have u ever thought that what will be the impact of such articles ....] and [...lets talk about what should be done.and do something for a better pakistan.but dont simply criticize...]

Dear Masd:

and Salman M (who reads but does not inter-act):

Mostly I keep away from these discussions. They are usually a futile effort. Impenetratable, reinforced and immovable lines are already drawn in the mind and on sand that renders any dialogue worthless.

However.......you appear young and by implication perhaps a little more flexible, and a little less rigid.

We do not live in a vacuum. If the betterment of fellow citizens is the core motive then all Pakistanis, those there and the ‘bhagora’ as you unkindly referred to, all of us have to chip in.

Please read and ponder Bilal Ahmed’s articles and the subsequent discussion generated on the interact board. Make notes. See what you can learn and where you and your friends can make a difference.

You would do well to remember nothing is insurmountable. All you need is an ‘open’ questioning mind and a resolve to get things done.
The change will come if each individual thinks and makes an effort. Clean, honest and unbiased.

Take a deep breath or two and look around.

No, not at your parents, your house, CD collection, friends or relations.

Go to a nearby slum. Pick out an eight year old Shakira or Amjad. And focussing on them think hard.

1: Where and how do they survive.?
2: What kind of education they receive?
3: Are they adequately fed or clothed?
4: And most importantly --- is there hope --- HOPE in their future?
5: Can they hope to become a better ‘insaan’?

As you ponder you will come across more troubling questions. And easy answers. If you are wise or skeptical you will learn to immediately ignore the easy answers.

You will often hear that if we get a good leader all our problems will be solved.

What we need is a leader
What we need is a LEADER
What we need is a L E A D E R
What we need is a G O O D L E A D E R
What we need is a R E A L L Y G O O D L E A D E R.

Not so my young friend.

Complex problems do not lend to easy solutions.

I hope you do not misunderstand what I am about to tell you. Not even Muhammed (saw) can solve Pakistan’s problem. Even he needed a core group of dedicated, sincere, upright men around him to carry out his reforms!

To carry out any meaningful reforms in Pakistan you will need:

1: Willingness and ability to produce results.
2: Planning.
3: Material resources.
4: The backing of some force behind you. (Think hard: and hopefully you will discard the force of the bullet or the blind faith in this endeavour.)
5: And the integral help of social institutions. (Law --- upholding: Impartial Judiciary. Law enforcement: Responsible Police. Impartial and Efficient Civic Administration etc.)

There are other tell tale signs. You will have to:

---Sign extradition treaties with other nations, so those who manage to run away can be brought back to face justice.
---introduce laws to seize assets of absconders, loan defaulters, traffickers.
---ban possession of guns and drugs and preaching of hatred against any citizen from any pulpit, minaret, town square, radio or television station or print media.
---introduce capital punishment for gun control, women and children abuse and drug trafficking.
---reform local Police. Drop FIR and streamline mandatory complaint process.
---reform tax collection and distribution, give tax credit for Zakat.
---guarantee complete freedom of expression.
---institute meaningful land re-distribution.
---renewed dedication for social evolution.
---deep freeze nuclear program in exchange for debt relief and international guarantees for territorial integrity. And most importantly for immediate survival
---de-link Kashmir for the next 20 years. Seek better relations with immediate neighbors.

Now, this is serious. Can this be done under existing conditions?

Our leaders tell us yes. Truth and Reality scoffs at their assertions.

Tell me of one institution that you will cling to as a prop to cleanse the others and attempt to even the keel of State’s ship from among the following:

Army?
Beaurecracy?
Feudal/Military Raj?
Religious Mullahcracy?
Ethnic Warlords?

Remember, I asked you for ONE institution that is intact, unaligned and with integrity.

I apologise for asking too many questions.

regards,

temporal

PS: Bilal, I will appreciate if you let the young ones debate this over. I will invite you to express your views later:)

PPS: Hassan, welcome to Chowk. Please keep contributing.

Re: Slink

Hi Shandana,

I apologise for sounding too pessimistic. I am as ever in awe of people who have been able to uproot their settled lives over ``her`` to go back ``there``, knowing too well the gradually retrogressive nature of our society. I am worried like the professor, as to where and how can I fit in within Pakistani society once i go back from here. That it is indeed comforting to know that one made the right decision to come out from that nation of misogyny, ignorance, and poverty.

For, I do not have hundreds of acres to my name over there, nor do I have the plethora of contacts/resources to be able to start a venture firm, which is what i want to do eventually. Till such time, I can accrue the resources, and in a ``halal`` manner, I think I owe it to myself to be abroad, though with a goal. I dont want to be a perpetual expatriate, not that being one in several continents has not helped me to better understand the psyche of the human nature, not to mention the fact that people are the same everywhere.

You are absolutely right, it takes a certain resilience and character to be able to take all that the govt of Pakistan(inclusive of the current ``regime``) and its sidekicks the dreaded ``theocracy`` chucks at one. I dont think i have what it takes to standby and see people being labelled heretics, and sent to the gallows for printing a granted ``thoughtless`` letter. That is indeed lamantable.

Hindutva politics is no different from the bearded politics we have in Pakistan. Besides not hailing from feudal family, has its sheer disadvantages when trying to confront any wrongdoings. Not that feudals ever bother to check the wrongdoings in the first place. They are however good for, taking us all the gulliblke junta for a ride, with their fancy english, and their ``bought for`` western education at Oxford and the Harvards of the western world, in a bid to continue to rulke on the insecurities of little people like us. The only way forward for middle class people like me is to harness our intelligence, and apply it through effective scholarship (granted due to the philanthrophy of the US, the same US our bearded folks want to migrate to, given half a chance, wand whose flag they love to desecrate and burn), to make a future. To become the so called ``nouveau-riche`` with wealth comparable to those of the so called ``old-wealth``, and then go back and implement a fairer system, crushiung the feudals, just be the sheer numbers of such people, and by bringing a semblance of order.

Tall dreams indeed. One has to dream big to achieve something bigger.

Sincerely,

Asim

RSaxena #15 ``Why do we need these comic books at all if they are all misinterpreted and do more harm than good?``

Excellent question. If people actually tried to read these books the way they were intended, i.e. with understanding, these books would do plenty of good: they would provide the moral compass that is the basis for a strong character. The middle class of Pakistan (I cant speak for India) instinctively knows what is right and wrong but denies itself the moral compass (since it either ignores it, or reads it without understanding) that would reassure them that on certain key values: the importance of science and learning, of respect for all faiths, honesty, keeping one`s word, staying away from judging other peope. The religious fanatics are probably too far gone to benefit from this moral compass, but would at least their pretense of having any basis in Islam for their views would be exposed. I assume the same would apply to India (and the folks who blew up and celebrated the A-bomb in India and are now spending badly needed resources trying to build an army to fight World War I are no less fanatical than the thugs who roam around Pakistan with guns).

As the kid says in the movie to the pirate Captain Hook: these guys badly need a mommy (or better yet, a fear of God) to teach them right from wrong.

According to yesterday`s Wall Street Journal, this is what Iran, who should be among Pakistan`s best friends, had to say about Pakistan:

``The U.S. says [Iran] must be able to discuss allegations of Iran`s links to terrorism and supposed attempts to build weapons of mass destruction. Iran finds this offensive. It notes that neighboring Pakistan has relations with the U.S. even though [Pakistan] has tested a nuclear bomb, has a military regime, is cozy with the even more fundamentalist Taliban in Afghanistan and harbors Islamist insurgents operating against India in Kashmir.``

Time for the Pakistan policy makers to wake up and smell the coffee.

temporal #17 ``PS: Bilal, I will appreciate if you let the young ones debate this over. I will invite you to express your views later:)``

In one sentence you provided an example of two other problems we have in Pakistan: (a) a arrogant belief in one`s own wisdom; (b) plain old rudeness.

In response to Masd (Reply # 9)
Masad:

Both I and Professor come a generation where young people were not encouraged (or allowed) to speak their minds. Both us belong to a small category of our generation who not only allow but encourage our young friends to be sound and critical in their outlook.

Your use of the word ``Bhagora`` reflects the kind of malaise that we criticize. In my view, most Pakistani critics of Pakistan are very brave people. Bhogora also reminds me of a nephew of mine who once wrote to me that all expatriate Pakistanis are actually ``cowards``. He also informed me that he and his generation will bring a change in Pakistan. I wished him well, and asked: What is so different in your generation that will enable you to do what we failed to do? He did not provide an answer, let alone a barely satisfactory answer.

Professor Gardezi is a highly respected scholar. I suggest you to read once of his relatively recent article: Gardezi, Hasan (1998). The Failure of Capitalism in Pakistan. Journal of Contemporary Asia, Vol 28, No. 3, pp. 310-26. If you can`t find the article, please send me an e-mail and I will send you a copy. Then, we may engage in a friendly debate over the contents of his article.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to tahmed (Reply # 22)
Dear Ahmed:

I don`t really know why temporal wrote what he did. I have been participating on the Chowk as a Chowkwalla only (and all Chowkwallas have a right to express their views freely, equally, and fearlessly).

Perhaps the best course of action will be to focus on what temporal actually wants us to discuss and accomplish.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Dear Mr. Gardezi:

Your memoir was very engaging and educating! You have captured a lot in this piece. There are a few passages where you`ve addressed very interesting topics; staring with the following as it beautifully highlights the cultural aspects, and addresses the surrounding upheavals.

I)
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Yet, once you get into personal interaction with relatives and friends, the old vignettes and virtues of Multan also begin to surface, mixed indeed with new anxieties and apprehensions.
The complaints and affections of the sisters in softly flowing siraiki idiom, the traditional foods, the exquisite handicrafts, the folklore, the childhood stories remind you that this is pretty much the same Multan that you left long time ago. The deteriorating environment, the civic chaos, the economic and political insecurity, the educational problems of the youngsters, and the ever present threat of sectarian violence, all such afflictions keep cropping up in conversations but accepted with therapeutic fatalism.
-------
Three long, but informative sentences taking a snapshot of everything in Multan.

Having a few friends from Multan during my F.Sc. years; I`d always requested them to get me: the nice and well-cut golden-til`lae-vali embroidered chappals; colored woven jewelery[I have never ever came across something so exquisite made of simple threads]; and shadow work dupattas in light summer shades. This particular passage reminded me of all those ethnic specialities of Multan. Beautiful!

``The complaints and affections of the sisters in softly flowing siraiki idiom``

The above was very sweet! Can you/anyone else please give some examples of siraiki idioms? I am not sure if you are reading the interacts; if you`re, that will be appreciated.

Thanks for a great read!

Continued..

Gardezi`s article appears to be more of an attempt to Expunge the Guilt of his `faithless act` of Abandoning his country and emigrating to Canada than a Compassionate assessment of Homeland Revisited.

His has been a `Journey into Disillusionment`, and he has told us why. He is nostalgic about his old hometown Multan and is upset that it`s so tough to recognise once familiar landmarks. Nevertheless, he is not too unhappy to leave, and is relieved that Leaving is now being considered `the right thing` to do. Here he betrays an expatriate`s continued need for justification of his unconscionable act of abandoning his country and making his escape to `a new social consciousness`.

Obviously, Gardezi`s new social consciousness, does not include taking the necessary pains to `translate` his concerns about Pakistan into any `effective plan of action`. Instead he has taken pains to explain why `no modern science can flourish outside it`s social context-the ideological and intellectual environment, the dominant value system and the class power structure`. I wonder how he would explain the cases of Copernicus, Galileo or even Darwin? The two most significant discoveries of all times, the heliocentric description of our galaxy, and the Theory of Evolution, did not quite happen in Conducive social circumstances. Yet Gardezi prefers to Blame the Context and refuses to acknowledge the role that scientists and social thinker`s have played in lifting societies from the quagmires of ignorance. What is revealed here is a social scientist`s Denial of his own Responsibilities towards his society.

Nonetheless, Gardezi also reveals himself to be an expatriate with a conscience. He is rendered `speechless` when he confronts the students before him, `so young, so quiet and so wide-eyed`. And his anguish is perhaps real when he describes himself as a `long-lost expatriate`. It is hard to Deprive young Innocents of Hope, it is hard to Demoralize ardent Hearts and to tell them that they have No Future here.

But Gardezi manages to skirt the skirmish with his soul. And instead of losing sleep over the pitiful regression that he had just witnessed of his homeland, he winds a `sleepy way` back to Canada and looks forward to the anticipated rest at the `cosy London home` of his friend. Gardezi has just managed to `FOG` his own sensitivities.

Masd #

To some extent I agree with you.

Not regarding the expatriate Pakistanis. They had done their fair share while in Pakistan and fought in their own way for a better future. And each expatriate migrated out of their circumstances. As Asim has put it succintly.

For example I try to do my best with the people living around me. Whether I was in Pakistan or here.

May be while in Pakistan I actively participated against tyranny and for democracy and better future for people in my age of emotionalism or young age.

Our generation failed or not failed will be decided in future. But General Zia ruled like dictator for 11 years but in the end died a death of bad name. Now Military regime is itself saying that it will continue democracy.

Our time is over and only experience is left.

If you want to learn, learn. If not who is going to force you.

The primary importance is investment on human and how you can achieve that.

Have you heard the Hadith that ``A Momin is not bitten by the same hole twice`` I fully agree. ``A Momin is bitten by different holes on different times``.

Lets see how you want to take your destiny in your hand. Through CD`s, watching movies and criticizing other people or take active part in politics to invest in humans.

As this is my first post at chowk.com, please allow me to introduce myself, before I offer any words that may trigger a barrage of critical analysis that the words aren`t even worthy of.

My name is Yasser Munir Pervaiz, an 18 year old student, born in Saudi Arabia, living in Canada since 1992, and just beginning to become aware of the Pakistan that has, to this point, been bandaged over by many a shaadi, daawat, or picnic at hawkes bay.

Now, with all formalities aside, my views. With an emphasis on `my`.

In response to temporal`s post, regarding what must happen in order for meaningful reforms to happen in Pakistan, I feel that he was on the right track, until the issue came back, full-circle, to the notion of policy changes and authoritative reform.

I feel that the primary concerns of the Pakistani government, and the Pakistani people, should be as follows:

1) Educate the people. Not necessarily maths and language skills, for we all know that the Pakistani standards in these subjects already exceed many of the standards of the western world, but skills that will assist them in in making their lives better. What are their rights? Who can they ask for help? Where can they find help? Is there help? And more, if not most, importantly - how to VOTE!

2) Shelter the people. Avoid the heavy spending on playing ``who`s got bigger - ahem -`` with India, and use the money to take care of your people. Billions of dollars can be spent on a bomb, yet millions of people are forced to live in the streets, slums, and gutters. Do the math and you`ll see that it doesn`t add up.

3) Feed the people. Ok, if that`s too hard, how about this: just give them some clean water. I read somewhere that contaminated water is the cause for over 90% of the deaths in Pakistani children. Maybe a centre in every village, shanty-town, etc. that provides clean water to each person. Maybe a better drainage system?

Those, my future friends (hopefully), are my views on what the primary concerns of the nation should be. Let`s keep them alive, then we`ll figure out how to stop them from being beaten, we`ll get the innocent ones out of jail, we`ll put the guilty ones in their place, train better cops, choose better leaders, etc. etc. etc. and so forth.

Thank you for not clicking `back`,

Yasser Munir

PS - I apologize for any repetition or similarities that this post may have to any other previous posts, for I have not read very many.

Thanks again.

Most Sikh temples do have loudspeakeres on roof tops particularly in the rural areas. Most Hindu temples in India also have loudspeakers singing away ``jai jagdish hare``. Although most of these speakers play recorded hyms etc quite musically....may be a bit less intrusive than mullahs live lalkaars.

I might have mentioned it before on Chowk, so please excuse me if it sounds repetitive..My native village is right on Indo-Pak border. The two villages on each side of the border are separated by 1 mile of low lying paddy and wheat fields. Even more interestingly the mosque in Pakistani village is on the Indian side(South/East of village) while our Gurdawara is on the Pakistani edge(North/West) of our village. Early in the morning Mullah ji and Bhai sahib turn the speakers on at full blast...Bhai ji usually earlier than Mullah ji..sounds of Nanak`s hyms and Mullah`s azaan can be heard on both sides, particularly during winter months when air is thick and foggy and make a very interesting musical collage...I kind of miss it now:-(

Mullah ji usually shuts up after few minutes...but Bhai ji cranks up his gramophone and keeps playing the records untill quite late in the morning.

It is known that Mullah and Bhai`s speakers were used for passing encrypted messages by some smugglers during the prosperous and friendly 70/80`s of Gen Zia:)

DullaBhatti

I have read HGurdezi in depth, and MASD`s reaction to this travelogue(?). I think I`ll side with the latter reaction, despite Gd`s engaging, every so often colourfully strobed, expressions, and maybe a touch of nostalgia; a nostalgia which has now woefully become a hallmark of the expats to which they are doomed, for as long as they live abroad. This is because, it is a ``till death do us part`` relationship.

The reactions, in all 28 posts, of the rest, now few but hooked on the Chowk by the afeem of the self-proclaimed, better-than-the-ones-who-stayed-back-there Lal bhujhkkads, are disappointing as usual.

In denial, sels-serving, apologistic, self-appeasing, propitiating and lacking miserably in even a modicum of brilliant analysis, these L.Bs think that by repetitively and untiringly adduceing tiring, and malodorous cliches, they can absolve themselves of the ultimate social sin of having `runned away` from their own country; a country which, if they had the minimum of intelligence to pass as normal, would not have been as it is today had they still been here, and showed commitmentment and dedication to it.

Now, when they come back, they talk about the alienation they felt at the hands of their home country. In fact it was their self-first [me,me,me,me?] comfort-first attitude which alienated them.

Give us, ``The Children of a Lesser God``, a break!

re:tahmed321, tibor

Yes sikhs and hindus both have loudspeakers. And in cities where both could be situated near to each other they compete by upping the volume as if to attract more and more customers. That is why I wrote `religious shops`.

By the way whydid you assume that I was writing about sikhs and not hindus? Both the communities exist in east punjab in almost equal numbers.

To Tibor: You think sikhs do not have loud speakers outside the gurdwaras makes me assume that you have never lived in punjab.

DullaBhatti #29:

I enjoyed your last post so much! The description of the maulvi and granthi competing with each other...the sound of the calls to worship floating across the paddy fields to awaken the ``other`s`` across the border, the namaaz and shabaad being blared out of the loudspeakers... the cacophany of the colliding prayers.... the words and call to God being used to co-ordinate un-Godly smuggling.... you really conjured up some wonderful imagery, and it is deeply laden with irony....(that slightly absurd, slightly farcical tone...the interzone, the border, where does one begin and one end.... it seems more like a precis of a short story written by Manto).

It is poignant and absurd, ironic and amusing. Thanks for sharing it with us sir :-)

As an aside, and at the risk of offending, my friend directed me to ``The Friday Times`` today...and I just wanna say to Shandana...

you look sooooo cute in that black & white photograph!

[no wonder urstruly dislikes you slink.... shooting from the hip indeed! :-) ]

regards

Harpreet

Re DullaBhatti #: 29

Didn`t the Khalistanis demand that Amritsar be declared a Holy City, smoking should be banned there and the Sikhs should have their own TV channel?

Now that you have Punjabi language channels available in most major cities, why is it that instead of Daler Mehndi we get Granth Sahib readings? Man, you guys have got a little bit of the mullah inside you.

Look at all those channels that show mainstream stuff (like in Hindi, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Bengali, etc.) You get movies, plays, song-and-dance sequences, etc. You got to go to the Gujarati channel to get religious programs dominating the discourse.

I say, let us hand over Gujarat and Punjab to Pakistan!

PS. For those who are humor-impaired (which is to say, all Indians) this was written tongue-in-cheek.