This Visit To Pakistan

Re: tahmed321, #159

Your First Law:

1/MNC means higher the Magnitude of National Crises (MNC) the smaller the number - leads to - higher the MNC, lower the Religious Violence (RV). And lower the MNC, ie, no crises, higher the RV! What are those sectarian killings and general lawlessness then? Is that because today`s Pakistan is close to being very peaceful and orderly?

Your Second Law:

Since C is too small to even matter, the National Crises tomorrow = 0. Tomorrow - leads to - Nothing to worry about it today - leads to - Today`s crisis for ``liberal`` Pakistanis is just a bad dream - leads to - Pakistan`s Future is golden when you wake up.

Your Third Law:

Since MNC in t+1 is close to zero - leads to - MPW at t = 0.

I hope you did not major in math!

I think you have been drinking that cold orange juice...with vodka in it! All screwed up!

To YLH and all the other people who foam at the mouth when they encounter a ``fundo`` (I`ve never been able to find anyone who could give me a good explanation of what that exactly means; if it means a Muslim who wishes to follow Islam as it has been traditionally understood for 1000 years and not re-form it to make it more palatable to Western concepts then I`m afraid all the Imams and Muslims and Sufis would be ``fundoes``)--please tell me, pray, has it not occured to your liberal hearts that the so-called Islamists actually have the best interests of Pakistan at heart? You might not agree with what they propose, but do you really believe that the JUP and the Minhaj ul Qur`an and DawateIslami and even the other religious groups whom i have some ideological differences with (like JI) do not want to see Pakistan prosper? The goal is the same (a prosperous Pakistan) and it is only the metohds which are different for different pakistanis whether liberal, religious or communist! We just think that Islam, strictly enforced, based on Hanafi fiqh would solve the problems we face. It does not mean that all the religious parties want is for everyone to be sitting in the mosque all day praying and reading the qur`an. After all, Islam encourages learning and education...why cannot Pakistan enforce shar`iat inside its own borders and yet be a full member of the international community?

Infact I believe that feudalism-one of the biggest problems in our country--and illiteracy [THE biggest problem] and poverty can ONLY be solved under a shariat system because under shar`iat everyone is equal. If it is incumbent upon you you HAVE to pay zakat (even if it is taken forcibly)..imagine how much revenue would be gained if everyuone who currently avoids tax was forced to pay it. And no one but a strict religious regime (with an army which backs it--otherwise u have a civil war situation a la Algeria) can enforce such policies.

Another question to all those who want a secular pakistan and not a pakistan which has shar`iah as its Constitution. If such is to be the case, I honestly cannot see why we bothered separating from India then...we might as well join up again and have one big secular Hindustan instead of a large secular India and a secular Pakistan. What do you say? That way, there`d be no more bloodshed, no more arguing over Kashmir...except i`m not sure if most indians would want you back no matter HOW secularised you become...Personally, if i was given a choice betwen a secular india and secular pakistan or one big secular Hindustan I`d opt for the latter; of course, I`d prefer an Islamic Pakistan living side to side with India on a peaceful basis.

Another question: it is the Islamists who are daily sacrificing their lives in Kashmir to further the foreign policy objectives of the government (whichever government is in power).You people are happy to let then take the bullets but you dont want them to partake of the cake...

I would like some serious answers please and none of the ``you are a fanatic`` type comments as answers. (You can make those comments if it makes you happy but please also answer the q`s.)

Finally, can anyone tell me, seriously, if you are a Muslim why you do NOT want full Shar`iah implemented in Pakistan. And please don`t say becoz it`ll be a mirror-image of afghanistan as you know the two countries are totally different.

What are your fundamental objections to it? Is it because you think religion and politics should be separate? If so, where did you get that concept from...

Godot,

Yes the beard of Pakistan can be shaved, and no the Pakistan that you left is not dead, though undoubtedly in ICU.

Let us join hands to resurrect the Modern Liberal Pakistan, these murderers have to kill.

Yasser Hamdani

Dionysus # 162

I think you got it all wrong. Indian government and other Hindus at Chowk make these claims not to convince us but to convince themselves and one billion miserable, half-naked, hungary, creatures, that the money they are spending on weapons and 700K incompetant disgrace of an Army who is out there to murder a few hundered freedom fighters in Kashmir, is well justified.

There is a great lesson to be learned from Russia. Weapons do not make a nation a superpower it is the bread and butter that goes into the stomach of the very down trodden which makes a nation proud and strong. Even if a dog goes hungary for a day in a country which calls itself a superpower there is nothing that can stop its collapse-just like Russia. When such ``superpowers`` implode they become nothing more than used condoms lying on the street which nobody even wants to step upon.

I am glad that Indians have not learned that lesson from Russia.

Asif Naqashbandi

Please do not use word ``liberal`` when talking about such people in the context of Pakistan- a better word would be ``pseudo-liberal``. These people dont even know the alif bay of liberalism. Lets not insult the notion of liberalism like this which is one of the noblest path a man can follow.

The problems of Pakistan are many but .....

From The Times of India today:

Delhi, Chennai worst cities to live in: UK survey
LONDON: Delhi and Chennai are among the worst cities to live in, according to a new survey on the quality of life in cities around the world. In the survey of 215 cities around the world, Delhi comes in at 176th, the same position as Chennai. That does not place it that far above Iraqi capital Baghdad, which is ranked 212th.

Pakistan capital Islamabad ranked 146 is somewhat better in the survey conducted by human resources firm William M. Mercer. The survey released here on Monday gives the top three spots to Vancouver in Canada, Zurich in Switzerland and Vienna in Austria. Brazaville in Congo is at the bottom of the table with Khartoum just above at position 214.

The survey is based on ten criteria that cover the political, economic and social environment, medical facilities, education, recreation and transport.

Chennai emerges as one of the most boring cities in the world with some of the poorest recreation facilities. Even Baghdad does better than it in this respect.

Transportation facilities in Pakistani cities seem much better than in Indian cities. Islamabad is found to be almost as good as New York.

The overall rankings on the quality of life within South Asia are as follows: Colombo 121, Beijing 141, Islamabad 146, Mumbai 163, Karachi 164, Lahore 166, Bangalore 175 and New Delhi and Chennai at 176.

Sydney is ranked seventh, San Francisco 19, Tokyo 19, Paris 35, Singapore 40, London 40, Birmingham 59, Rome 69, Dubai 81, Kuala Lumpur 87, and Bangkok 113.

The survey makes separate lists for recreation facilities and for public transport and traffic. In recreation terms, it shows Delhi in the 165th position. Comparatively, Beijing is ranked 144th and Baghdad 204th.

In this area, Los Angeles is on top, along with Sydney, Washington and Abu Dhabi. Following are the points awarded to selected cities by way of recreation facilities, with the base figure of 100.00 taken as New York: Madras 23.5, Bangalore 27.5, Islamabad 44.5, Karachi 46.85, Lahore 52.5, Delhi 44.0, Mumbai 47.5, London 96.5, Bangkok 81.5, Colombo 65.85, Dubai 69.5 and Baghdad 25.5.

When it comes to public transport and traffic, Delhi ranked 182. In that respect Baghdad is better at 153 and Beijing at 129. But Delhi is better than Mexico City, which is ranked 212.

Again with New York taken as the standard with an award of 100, the rankings in transport for some cities are: New Delhi 60.00, Mumbai 67.5, Bangalore and Madras 34.5, Abu Dhabi 115.92, Singapore 147.81, Baghdad 79.5, Bangkok 70.76, Beijing and Cairo 91.5, Dubai 123.88, Colombo 83.91, Dhaka 41.18, London 122.22, Islamabad 98.5, Karachi 91.77 and Lahore

Interesting!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1191000/1191067.stm

asif naqshbandi

you ask ``if you are a Muslim why you do NOT want full Shar`iah implemented in Pakistan``

............. the answer is simple : for the same reason that I don`t want to ride a camel, or trade oil changes for a copy of windows, or have four wives, or marry off my daughter at 9, or execute POWs, or burn down interest paying banks, or amputate the hands of petty theives, or go to war because someone didn`t appoint my son as the caliph, or execute someone because they insulted a long dead prophet, or pay a special tax because my last name is masih, or banish women to the harem, or have the fashion police beat up my wife because she dared to show a wisp or hair, or have to drive my daughters everywhere, or own slaves, or splash water everywhere and make a mess in the bathroom five times a day, or give up toothpaste for maswak, or belch after eating halwa, or shout takbeer instead of clapping, or hike up my shalwar to bare my ankles, or beat up on the soccer team because they wore shorts, or sacrifice my son because i had a bad dream, or kick my concubine out of the house because my wife objects, or, for that matter even have a concubine, .............. phew !................. you want more reasons ......................... or have to recite the dua-i-qanoot when being interviewed for a house surgeons position, or being beaten up by the police because i want to have lunch during ramadhan, or being told that i cannot have sex with the lights on, or being told what to think ..... but most of all i don`t want to ride a camel or subsist on dates !

Godot #165 I guess I have to explain everything.

First Law: When there is no crisis, the mullahs become active by starting a Shia-Sunni fight. When there is a real threat to the country - external threats, floods, draught (like last year in Baluchistan) - the mullahs are nowhere to be seen. That is the reson for the inverse relationship in the equation which I guess I should have explained. You may call this a Hypothesis if you wish, and not a Law, but dont reject it without thinking.

You ask: ``What are those sectarian killings and general lawlessness then? Is that because today`s Pakistan is close to being very peaceful and orderly?``

While things look bad for Pakistan today, name one crisis of the kind we faced in 1965 or 1971 or throughout the 1980`s under that one-man crisis Zia.

Second Law:

`` Pakistan`s Future is golden when you wake up.``

That is not what the Second Law says: The Magnitude of National Crises in the future, MNC(t+1) can (and probably will) in fact be very high. Only thing is: the problems we face will be different from the ones you worry about today. We are still worrying about issues of 1947 (2-nation theory etc.) when all the issues we will run into from here on lie in the future.

Third Law:

``Since MNC in t+1 is close to zero - leads to - MPW at t = 0.``

You ar wrong: MNC(t+1) is not close to zero (as explained above), the coefficient C is close to zero.

Since you are having some trouble with math, I have summarized the implications of the Second and Third Laws as follows: The problems you worry about today wont be the problems you will encounter in future (this is true not just for Pakistanis, but for everyone). However, you will encounter a different set of problems (that no one is worrying about today). So you are doing the right amount of worrying, but about the wrong things.

PS I dont want to say the mullahs are no threats or that they should not be dealt with as power hungry individuals whose views are in violation of the Quran. All I am saying is not to allow their loudspeakers and gun-toting detract us from the real problems we do face in Pakistan and which will cause tomorrow`s crises.

Dear Hamidm

Although your posts are nothing more than a broken record (with a sound of a Paataa Dhol)which you manage to play somehow time and again but sometimes you do get a laugh out of me. I am dying to see your comments on the Pity board on the ensuing discussin. Be careful, i reckon you have a pink posterior, as you mentioned in some of your post. I wanna see who is salivating.

Re: ylh, #167

Yasser, I remember you once wrote to me that, after your studies here in the US, you`ll go back to Pakistan. I hope you do. To me, you, and young people like you, are Pakistan`s hope. Pakistan needs people like you. I know you can, and will, make a difference. Follow Jinnah`s steps and Pakistan will be a great country, a country that we all be proud of. Make it happen, Yasser.

Re: tahmad321, #172

Stick with English. Math is not your subject.

Re: Ras Siddiqui, #170

``The overall rankings on the quality of life within South Asia are as follows: Colombo 121, Beijing 141, Islamabad 146, Mumbai 163, Karachi 164, Lahore 166, Bangalore 175 and New Delhi and Chennai at 176.``

Did anyone tell the Chinese that Beijing is now a part of South Asia, or is it still a secret?

Tahmed#172

Hilarious, I liked your ``new style`` of writing.

re asif n`s

``why cannot Pakistan enforce shar`iat inside its own borders and yet be a full member of the international community?``

I will take the question head on. The reason, to which you may be oblivious, is that the world has changed significantly since the time of the late Mard-e-Momin Allama Ziaul Haq. In the darkes days of the Cold War the West was ready to overlook the transgressions of its dictatorial allies. With the coming down of the Berlin Wall, there has been a constant re-assertion, intellectually and morally, in the civilized world of the fundamental inviolability of God given rights.This ethic is gaining ground by the day on both sides of the Atlantic. Soon there will come a day when a country, notwithstanding its claims of sovereignty, will not be able to have any intercourse with the civilized world unless this country follows certain principles of fundamental fairness. This evolving consensus will require all those who wish to join in at the table of human civilization to adhere to the basic ideas of representative democracy, pluralism, civil liberties a la the Univ Declaration of HR, free economies and equality before law. For obvious reasons most such principles stand at sharp divergence with the sharia as known today. Hence, Pakistan with sharia cannot be a Pakistan fully accepted in the international community.

Oh, please save the lecture about Islamic human rights- I know the drill about how it is superior and gives more rights and the rest of the nonsense. Feel free to join in if you have something different to add.

Godot,

Inshallah!

Yasser Hamdani

Urstruly, this is the ``miracle`` by which nothing but Muslims are left on huge swathes of this earth. What sorry creatures you are !

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Afghanistan-Buddha.html

February 26, 2001

Taliban: Statues Must Be Destroyed

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 6:14 p.m. ET

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Afghanistan`s hard-line Taliban rulers ordered the destruction Monday of all statues, including a pair of monumental 5th century Buddhas towering over 100 feet tall and carved out of a mountainside.

The order came from the Taliban`s supreme leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, who issued an edict declaring statues, including the ancient Buddhas, as insulting to Islam.

``Because God is one God and these statues are there to be worshipped, and that is wrong, they should be destroyed so that they are not worshipped now or in the future,`` Omar said in his edict, published by the Taliban-run Bakhtar News Agency.

-Arun the Infidelator

An extremely wise person wrote, and silenced me :

As a good Muslim, Muhammad Omar is not doing anything that is not sanctioned by Islam. It is not a medieval act unless one regards Islam as a medieval religion and not the ``removal of jahiliyat`` from the world. If we believe Islam to be medieval religion, we should say so instead of beating around the bush.

All good intentions apart, the first step in solving a problem is to identify the cause the problem. Blame the cause -- not the effect.

- Arun the Infidelator, who is henceforth going to blame the cause and not the effect.