This Visit To Pakistan

Urstruly #39

It is the same tactic Jamt-e-Islami has been using in Pakistan to divert the issue.

Why majority of Pakistanis are living in poverty and illiteracy. Answer is because they are away from Islam. Now if that is the criteria why the other countries are developing who have no Islam.

Any way you have pointed to four points to which Liberals are allergic. (If you mean by liberal thinking person then you are right)

Maulana Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto a champion of Islam put the foundation of at least three of the four policies when all the liberals like Mian Tufail, Ghafur Ahmed were busy raping the democracy in Pakistan.

Pakistan`s Nuclear policy as is well known is Maulana Bhutto`s achievement. If you are unsure ask the Mohajir Qadeer Khan. He will tell you why his name was smeared during the Punjab`s son regime.

Pakistan China policy and Afghanistan policy is also a brain child of Maulana Bhutto. In fact as is mentioned in this article liberal Mawdoodi even proclaimed Jihad in Kashmir as un Islamic.

So I agree with you liberals like Mowdudi, Tufail Ahmed etc have been against the ideal of progressive Pakistan from very beginning and it were Mullahs like Haji Bhutto, Hafiz Adib-ul-Hasan rizvi etc who are doing something.

And of course you are also included in the category of people who know what to do with Pakistanis. ``Zara Islam Ka Danda To Dena In Ko`` ``Allah Mian a.k.a Hukomat Ke Khilaaf Bolte Hain`` ``Bare Bahadur Bante Hain. Hamen Dekho Naslein Ghulami Mein Guzaar Din. Yeh Kaise Hukumranon Ke Mun Lagte Hain``.

``Jub Hum Islam Ka Danda Pura Ander Le Saktein Hein To Doosre Kiyun Nahin``

Temporal #40-41

I did not know you are so well versed in politics.

Writing anything after you is like showing lamp to sun. (It was a joke).

In the old politics of Pakistan, it was to share the loot of Aid from from foreign countries, which is much advantageous to Army. You can see clearly that it is the people of Pakistan who get hurt and not them. Budget cut, job cut, Taxes etc are to be taken out from the pocket of people to fill the pockets and job of Army. So as long as Army is there, I don`t expect any change. This time again the official party will get overwhelming support from areas which gets most benefit out of this dispensation.

Yeh Raaz Amrika Ko Nahin Maloom.

Momin Kia Chahta Hai.

America should take the advise of Nawaz Sharif regarding this. Fatwa Bhi Amrika Ke Haq Mein Aur Awaam Bhi. Phir Bhi Agar Liberal, Bher Bakrion Urf Awaam Ki Baat Kare to Islam Ka Danda Pura Ander Dena.

Hell with liberals. Without Islam, but that from Akora and Mianwali Pakistan cannot progress.

Urstruly #39

Your mention of Afghanistan is apt. Lot of rhetoric. No substance. Jamat-e-Islami style.

Whose responsibility is Afghan people. Afghan Government. What they are doing. Fighting their liberals and commies like Gulbadeen Hikmatyar (defeated long time back), Burhanuddin Rabbani, Hizb-e-Wahdat etc. (All with Islamic credentials as much as Taleban). And also famous son of Afghanistan whose effort made Russia look like a child meaning Ahmed Shah Masood.

What are they giving their people. Shariah which in their dictionary means hunger, illiteracy and death. Did Shariah stopped them from doing something for their people except jailing people without beard and shaving the head of people wearing shorts.

And they are fighting Jihad everywhere forgetting charity begins at home.

And black mailing the world community in the highest order of Islamic teaching that if people don`t give them ``Bhatta`` or Aid they will start planting opium.

Urstruly #39

In the end your mention of thinking like Pakistanis is very apt.

I for one will think like human first, then a Muslim. Thinking Pakistani person are hanged or jailed, if you don`t know yet.

As far toeing the line of establishment in the name of thinking like Pakistanis. Excuse me from this. Keep it to yourself for future killings of Sindhis, Baluchis, Mohajirs and Pathan in the name of Pakistan.

As was done to Bengalis, Baluchis, Sindhis and Mohajirs (all Muslims unfortunately).

So keep rhetoric of Pakistan and your Halwe Mande to yourself.

Ghafur Ahmed is rumored to have his second division son admitted to Medical school in Bhutto Government with People`s Party connection. So leave this rhetoric for poor people of Pakistan whom you understand better.

Like Imam of Badshahi Mosque giving Fatwa for prohibition of admission to Jannat for anyone voting people`s party.

Your crimes are so much that each Mullah should be hanged on street for their crimes. Alas there is no Mullah among Progressives (reverse of regressives)

Jagdeep #33

It was a Sikh joke by Tibor.:-).

Tibor does not call it loudspeaker. It is ``Alae Sada Buland Kun``

Anueeqa #30

I read your whining and crying with pain.

Who is going to fight for you. You hang him or put in jail and label them liberals for a crumb of bread.

We are fighting in our own way the injustices.

While in Pakistan, I had to do double job most of the time. Whether I feel proud that I broke curfew, did not succumb to nepotism and 2 number money and continued to fight for survival till a better opportunity.

So you think you are left behind and your will is broken by Establishment.

Try to break their will, and see how coward they are even with atomic bomb.

If ever I come to Pakistan, I will fight for my rights there as before and it is the duty of Pakistanis living there to fight for their rights.

You cannot leave struggle for others and fruits to yourself.

Ras Siddique

#42

Sir,

That was a beautiful article /?letter by Kamraan. I would, though, sincerely be interested in your personal views to these questions, based on your post:

1)Has Pakistan changed from a kinder gentler place to a meaner violent place, or is this just ``Indian`` or ``Western`` propaganda?

2) Is the hatred for India/hindu so intense that many Pakistanis conciously try their best to dissociate with ``subcontinental`` culture & align themselves with Arabic/Middle Eastern cultures?

3) Why is it so shameful for some (or many? --I dont know) Pakistanis to be proud of the subcontinental culture?

4)Cant a muslim be proud of his/her subcontinental cultural heritage eventhough his/her spiritual heritage can come from Arabia/Middle East?

To Urstuly & other India haters,

I think Pakistan has every right to define an identity & culture that is unique & different from India. However, no matter how hard you try to dissociate from us, its too bad the rest of the world cant. You are not going to be bracketed with Middle Easterners. Whether you like it or not, the world will regard us as SAsians or ``subcontinentals``. Dont misunderstand me, I think the overwhelming majority of Indians dont want reintegration with Pakistan; just as much as you dont.

Some of the Pakistani bigots may take offense to this, but I`m sorry to burst your bubble. Do your lords & masters--the Arabs consider you one of their own? or the Iranians for that matter? In the oil rich Arab world they treat the ``coolies`` from Pakistan just as badly as those from India.

How have these ``lords & masters`` behaved during the 10 year Kashmir uprising? One Pakistani diplomat after the other have zealously swamped them with statistics & tales of Indian/hindu brutality , rape & genocide of Kashmiri muslims. Take a look at what Urstruly has posted about hindus / India. I`m sure Pakistani diplomats have told their fellow muslim brothers from Arabia the same thing. I would have thought any muslim hearing this would be up in arms & outrage at the Indian govt`s behavior.

Other polite murmurs of sympathy & support of Pakistani sponsored toothless ``resolutions`` at OIC meetings, can anybody tell me what else have these so called muslim ``brothers`` done?!

Has any of those govts lambasted India?

Has any of those govts broken diplomatic relations with India?

Has any of these govts proposed any economic boycott or oil embargo on India?

Have any of their citizens demonstrated outside Indian embassies in their country?

If Urstruly is right, any sane human being (let alone muslim) should view India with the same contempt that many Pakistani ``conservatives`` do. Whats the matter with them? Look how they are supporting the Palestinians, & compare that with how they are supporting Kashmiris! Are they blind & deaf? Have they gone mad? Have those evil bania hindus somehow treacherously put them under their evil spell & somehow muted their outrage? Why are their leaders & foreign ministers even visiting India?! & inviting & entertaining their Indian counterparts in their capitals?

Tauba tauba! these muslim brothers of yours are worse than even those ex-commie Pakistani besharam liberals!!

Urstruly,

Before trying to convince Indians to hide their face from the rest of the world, in shame--please try & convince your Arab & Iranian brothers that they should be ashamed for not doing more for the Kashmiris. All your anti-India/hindu propaganda is in vain--its not changed the mind of a SINGLE Indian! But dont feel so bad yaar (after all we are besharam). If your brilliant Pakistani diplomats havent swayed your foreign muslim brothers into violent outrage; what chance do you think they have with Western govts? What does that say about Pakistani credibility?! Maybe the Arabs, Iranians, West ( & most of the world outside Pakistan) are all as besharam as hindus.

Ras #42

Basant is unIslamic and has been officially proclaimed by none other than Deputy Commisiner in Karachi.

After the verdict of such high authority, (now a days greater than God), under whose authority such an un islamic festival is celebrated.

One principle of Islam is that any festival of Happiness need to be consolidated with extra prayer. Also ``Lao-oLaab`` such as Kite flying is highly undesirable especially by common folks.(It is only allowed for rulers according to Shariah interpretation and is no joke)

Looks like high official in Lahore have stopped growing beard and stopped playing with Islam. Un Ka Eeman Mejhey To Saaf Khatre Mein Nazar Aata Hai.

My vote is for deputy commisioner of Karachi. He knows the correct way of giving Islamic Danda deep. Looks like Lahori have become little brave or they are still governing like lion in his den.

Zahra #38 I did overreact, and you are quite right in your observations. It just seemed to me that he was dropping names (there are a number of them) and so forth, but on re-reading I realized I was reading too much into it. I thank you for correcting me: merci, shey-shey and gracias not to mention aurigato, shukran, and danke.

Asim:

I`ve an inkling; the Maulana is preparing to sue you for writing a ``shaitaan kee aant lumbee post`` and exhausting post. Are you ready to handle that? Of course, with another killingly lengthy one :-).

( *_ *)?

re. Urstruly #?

``Could someone please tell me one good reason why I should trust the future of my country and the coming generations with liberals?``

Even assuming all those bad things you attribute to `liberals` (convenient lump-term, eh?) are true, would you rather have the taliban at the helm of affairs? quite clearly, that seems to be the only viable alternative at this juncture.

jagdeep #33 ``By the way whydid you assume that I was writing about sikhs and not hindus?``

Jagdeep strikes me as a Sikh name (is that right?), that is why I assumed you were writing about sikhs.

krashid: Dont waste your time trying to beat sense into urstruly. He is lowest of lowlife I can think of: sitting comfortably in Detroit, enjoying the comforts of the West, while spewing hatred about other people and talking about jehad and violence in a place half a world away where for most people the biggest challenge is finding the next meal. If you are looking for a Companion of the Left Hand (the ones to be put in hell), I think he and the rest of the thugs like him provide perfect examples.

Tahmed:

``It just seemed to me that he was dropping names (there are a number of them) and so forth, but on re-reading I realized I was reading too much into
it. ``

I forgot to mention something in my previous note on your ``names-dropping`` point. Additional pointers...

a)The names were part of the article, and he only mentioned them whenever he came across those people. Of course, he could not say that he went to the Punjab University[which is in beautiful surroundings now] and met with a maiz-and-kursee or sat in the cafeteria and talked to a chai-kee-pyali. Good Lord! It`s very disturbing if that`s what you expected him to do :-)!

b)It was not the only thing in his memoir. Why couldn`t you see the attributes associated with those names?

c)He has talked about quite a few from different fields - just to tell the reader whoever he came across or had planned to meet during his trip. Well, he appears to be a well-planned man -- quite an uncommon trait among men, I guess ? Probably that`s why there is so much hoopla about it! Well, if that`s the case, then the issue falls under a different category :-)I`ll leave it here!

d) It`s also indicative of the kind of people he sits with. What about the phrase - `A person is judged by the company he keeps`? Well, if he is talking about educationists [having quite a few in my immediate family; I have great love and respect for them]; we need to learn about these people than the ones in other fields only, i.e. performing arts - which are very commonly promoted as the ``heroes and heroines`` of our country.

Umeed Hae` Keh Iss Taveel Explanation Keh Baad you`ll not raise another point on this issue :-)!

On a general note:
Post # 25 should read: I have never ever `come` across...Having very little patience to edit my posts; I have to make these corrections more often than I would like to.:-( Kaash Keh interacts window gave this option. Kaaaaaaash!!!!!
Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash! [fading prayer]

Take Care

Dionysus:#44

Thank you very much indeed for Ayaz Mir`s article.

It is long,but worth every word of it.

One has to just see the names in the now famous Hammodur-Rehman`s Report.Each corrupt & immoral character mentioned therein has a certain background.

They were all darkened xeroxes of their masters.All of them loved to flaunt their non-islamic or unIslamic ways.Ridiculing the pious & practising kind was their favourite pastime.

Musharraf is no different.The people who get appointed to key positions are specifically those who contort their mouths,walk/talk like aliens,considered educated if they know more about the outside world than their own.

The existence of MAULANA Sattar Edhi is a miracle in such an environment.

The Ba Ba Blacksheep would much prefer to get mugged in Soho,Lynched in New York,or robbed in Chicago.Of course then it would be an adventure to write home about---or rather not talk about it because maybe Uncle Sam or Father John Bull would

be offended.



Ever notice how the Pakistani media avoids reporting about the sweeping spread of the madressahs and mosques in the west.Incidently,they are also producing the brightest class of scholars within their respective educational boards.

The real bane of Pakistan is this Officer/servant mentality.The breeding ground of that is the unjust educational system & using english as the office-language.In one sweep all the high-faluting I.Q of those occupying ``important`` jobs would crash down to zero.

If Japan,Germany,& Asim Hayat`s Norway and ANY nation with an iota of honour & self respect can live decently why NOT India & Pakistan.

Must they remain diligently successors to the savages who enslaved them.Must they always be the dog with the cocked ear & proud of this record?

__________________________________________________

``Munn kee dunyaa mein naa payaa mein ney AFRANGI ka raaj

munn kee dunyaaN mein naa dekhey mein ney sheikh o Burhaman``.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

Re: Temporal`s # 17

This is in reference to Temporal`s post # 17 and I was about to post the answer, what I think, to the questions asked as to if there is one Pakistani insititution left, which can check the decay in the Land The Pure Profaned...

I will wait for a response and if there is none, which I suspect, I will post a reply...

Ciao!