The Damned And The Damnable

Wow! Well-written and thought-provoking. Thanks Samina.

:). Hallo hocie :). I read this article, and b4 I could comment on it (coz I 4got to sign in na), I went and read everyone else`s comments on it, and that like totally clouded my judgement. :(.

1. I am very very - VERY - sorry to hear of what happened to you & your family (the robbery I mean).

2. I have lived an extremely sheltered life myself, so I really cannot feel the INTENSITY of the horror and rage you personally must have felt. But I do understand rage, and horror, and anguish, and fear.
And they are very powerful and compelling emotions. If you turn them to serve your purposes, they can do either good or harm. But if you mould them to good before you set out on your purpose, they can only give you better things than you would have experienced had you let their negative aspects overwhelm you. I don`t know if I have written clearly what I mean to say...

Your writing style, I liked. The story was too graphic for me. I could not read it again. These sort of things I let touch my life only once, and then banish them to the remotest corners of my memory. It is called shutting out. Like the story I wrote on the homosexual, let it touch me once, write it down perhaps to look back on in a later more calmer life, then erase it from memory.

I do not know what it is to live in Karachi, or Bombay, or New York for that matter. Big cities, crowds, many types of people, many types of frustrations. But I know that you must have gone thru something horrible, and you have shared that very acutely with us readers. I liked that.

Some of the commentators wrote about Aristotle and Pluto and Ayn Rand and etc etc.. I will only say this. I am not a very smart person, and have no aptitude for reading long writings by people
who are dead and gone, and on top of that who use very long words. Very short concentration span. And also, someone`s from-the-heart writings - like I can sense in your article - are much much more dearer to me that dead people saying how they lived their lives and found their answers. Your article is vibrant. It is the NOW. That is important. It has immense feelings. Keep your feelings alive, and you will write masterpieces forever.

And you say you want to write a book one day. A book has a beginning, a middle, and an ending. Your acceptance of the system has enveloped you already. You have already written a book. The next book must show how you begin your fight against the system, and how you come out unscalded and stronger than b4.

Now I end this letter on a note of gloom. There are no unicorns in the world, Hocie. If wishes were horses, they would have wanted to exist.

Love,

Ana.

Hi Samina,

I feel much the same anger towards the decadance in the society around me also for the helplessness I feel being unable to do much about it.

I enjoyed reading your article ``The Damned And The Damnable``,it definately gets across the anger you feel towards the corrupt system surrounding our existance.

Keep up the good work.

Prashant

PS : I am sure you will be able to write a book, go for it. You have surely heard the saying about wishes being horses, but have you heard this one ``you can dream of anything,ambitions are free``

Annie #38,

Sorry Annie, it won`t happen again ;)

Extreme violence of this kind shouldnot be internalized by its victims. File a complaint, write to newspapers(or say on chowk), take out a procession, get together with neighbours, make a movie. In other words, put it on the PUBLIC record somewhere or somehow.

The private mental and emotional record of such an incident should be limited to (and its very difficult) filing away under the title `post-traumatic stress syndrome`.

Sadhana

re Aristotle #36:

Upon second thought, maybe my initial impression was wrong. Sorry for lumping you with the likes of urstruly. Welcome and write more albeit with a little more kindness.

later

-sac

35 ScoutApa

``As I told Annie (another good aspiring young frustrated female writer from Karachi I believe)``

Err.. that`s anNy with a `y`

Reply#22 Aristotle

``NO really people this article is GARBAGE… Aside from you philosophy your style of narration is not very becoming either...... you didn`t build the character properly....... he seems more like a lunatic than a sane pessimist to whom atleast I might have been able to relate that is when my emotions would be at the lowest ebb....... oh and one more thing it really lacks originality...... for all the afore mentioned reasons your article deserves a thumbs down...... hope you do a good job next time......``

I`d love to see you not spill garbage yourself 2 days after your house is robbed, when the three men use disgustingly derogatory language for u in front of your 16 year old brother, pull your mothers hair, slap her while the other 2 men laugh and hold your brother captive while the mother cries, (I realize I sound like a pathetic Sultan Rahi movie) men who besides taking all the jewelry in the house, (perfumes too, sad no?) take your sisters thesis papers for spite…a paper that inspite of repeated pleas as to what use will it be to them, they still take, grinning all the way…6 months of hard work down the drain that is our system..and please remember this is happening in the writers house..not even 4 feet from the bed she was sleeping in…`lacks originality` u say…that`s hard to come up with when the mother is under sedation because all the sisters jewelry for the wedding coming up in December is gone..

Sir, attack the writers style of writing (which u have) we all have our own..if u feel its not original that`s just fine… but to criticize her for having emotions not original is unfair…the rage and violence she feels almost all of us have in similar situations..whether it is being car jacked on main clifton bridge or hearing of a friends girl raped by 9 policemen on Valentines day 2 weeks earlier in a police station because they were holding hands while the friend is being hammered beyond recognition by another 6 of the same kind…the emotions are the same..highly `unoriginal`…writing is an outlet for some..this is how Samina goes about letting go of her grief, helplessness and intense fear…please try and understand that…

this might help

“Tsk! Tsk! Look at this,” she exclaims, showing me a newspaper picture of car smashed into an electric pole. It looks new, you know the unregistered, zero meter sort of some hot model. It looks new even when it’s a total wreck and suddenly I find myself saying: “I hope it was some big shot that died in that thing. I hope to God it is.” She is startled just like me. Startled by the subdued bitterness and resentment in my voice. Startled by surge of anger that is flashing in my eyes. She tells me that it’s not a big shot. They were people just like me who belong to a religious minority. I bite my lip, so hard that I finally draw blood.``

To take what u said literally, the entire scene is `original`. I saw the blood as did everyone else sitting by her.

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Re: sac # 34

That remark was made to show that objectivist dont approve of masses following a singular ego.... Now be that singular ego a leader, a revelation, Prophet or from divine.(well they say they do as long as the truth presented is absolute, but thats frivolous, see Leonard Peikoff lectures on objectivity www.aynrand.org)......

Now to the hypocritical nature of Iqbal you speak off. Capitalism in its purest sense i.e the Laissez-faire only exists in theory. So now the most commonly adopted system of capitalism we have around the world has elements of socialism in it to try and accomodate people of all sorts. Thats not hypocrisy, that is the pragmatic truth. Just because Nietschze and Ayn had a black and white view of this world doesn`t mean every one should.

Moreover Iqbal`s philosophy dealt mostly with human psyche rather than the macro elements of sociology and economics. So please next time lets not use the broad terms like socialism and capitalism.

Last but not least..... Welcome or not I am here..... and thats ABSOLUTE.....

Aristotle

re Aristotle #22:

``read the life of Jinnah see how individuall strive and masses follow``

Exactly.....and would you elaborate as to how that proves your thesis about the snotty followers of Ayn rand and objectivism?

Iqbal`s concept of `khudi` draws its inspiration from a rich tradition of Eastern mysticism and German philosophy(Nietszche and Co.). Like most other philosophical constructs, the concept of `Khudi` is heavily influenced by Iqbal`s stay and subsequent doctorate in Oriental studies at Heidelberg. According to the fashion of the times Iqbal couldn`t bring himself to terms with the `selfish` capitalist thinking espoused by the Schumpters of the day. So he tried to align himself with the socialists. But you can tell even from a cursory reading of his works that his heart is just not there. The clever man that he was, he found a middle ground. He decided to become a socialist with a capitalist agenda. Hence `khudi` and `Ya Rab dil-i-Muslim ko.....and something about paying the labourer before his sweat his dry...`(oh where is that bigot f_k when you really need him?).

Ayn Rand`s works are also heavily influenced by Nietschze. Her works are littered with his quotes. However in order to understand her philosophy you have to read her life history in great detail and put her work in context of the time it was written in.

I think you are the first newcomer on Chowk I`ve ever said this...but....I don`t think you are going to be a welcome addition here. Hang around and spew your venom. There are many of your variety already here(you and urstruly will make great friends!!).

later

-sac

You write well (even though it is an unoriginal emotional diarrhea of words) and with interest. By unoriginal I mean the idea of what you wrote, not the way you write.

As I told Annie (another good aspiring young frustrated female writer from Karachi I believe),

direct your energy into something positive for Pakistan.

You can sit and sigh and moan and groan, but that doesn`t do much besides wasting your precious ``gray cells.``

Don`t stop at mass communication and ice cream.

Go further, keep writing and always remember,

actions speak louder than words.

I don`t mean to sound condescending, but I`ve been through this frustrated thought process, as have countless other Pakistanis like you and I.

EAch of us can`t do anything individually, the task is too difficult. If we think about it, we`ll get angry and cynical but if we educate ourselves individually and build a strong community, it will all come together in the end.

that`s all for now.....

scout (mellowed by the cold rain)

I am not at all convinced that this article is a forgery. I think it is a low-blow to a new aspiring writer. All of those who claim it to be a forgery should present their evidence, which they haven`t so far, or forever hold their peace.

Ms. Waheed:
It is good to see your conviction. And dont you worry it is ``normal`` here at Chowk.

Urstruly......

Studb in #28 has put it quite aptly.....Should I expound more?

Thanks for all the criticism and appreciation. It will obviously help me improve and Im grateful that many of you actually took the time out to read it. As for the saying ``take it like a man``... well I`m not a man so its kinda self-defeating dont you think?:-) For those of you who don`t know who Ayn Rand is, well she put forth the system of objectivisim (a system of philosophy). Of course she`s not a very popular writer,so I can understand why many people seem to hate her with a passion. Iqbal is rather good infact I really like his shikwa and jawab-e-shikwa but Faiz and Ghalib take the cake anyday. As far as the forgery claim goes, well I really dont know what to say to that...perhaps I wrote this in another lifetime? =o)

Welcome to Chowk!

and Congratulations on having been able to spark yet another debate about some Ayn Rand,Aristotle and whoever else!..

and as our friend would say `marra tu fit hae`

one more thing..i agree with omarphoenix and krashid...take their advice!

cheers.

Taimur.

Taking Aristotle`s comments to task doesn`t change

the fact that this article is utter rubbish. I agree with Aristotle`s comments.

I do hope the author continues to write.

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Could someone please tell me what Ayn Rand has to do with this article?

Accusers of frogery: What is your basis of accusation?

Re: Aristotle

Next time you want to hurt someone, why don`t you go and bang your head against a wall. And if that doesn`t help, try doing it while you are running REALLY FAST!

Samina, ignore Aristotle`s comments for the only ``garbage`` around here, is the one spewing out of his mouth. Once again: You did a wonderful job!

K!

Re: Asim Hayat

For whatever you think Aristotle stood for I can assure you it wasn`t exactly Ayn rands objectivity...... for further info please read Aristotle`s ``On Politics`` and ``On Economics`` and then read ayn rands ``Capitalism: the unknown ideal``........ You will see that its not just a nuance but the difference is as bright as daylight.......

as far as intellectual dwarfism is concerned, Please save that crap for someone else. Why some ideas that are indigenous to west and are even refuted by the westerners are so readily accepted by some south asians is a concept that escapes my understanding. But I do know this that that is the cause for your problem of intellectual dwarfism. Work on it.

Aristotle

Re: Aristotle

Next time you want to hurt someone, why don`t you go and bang your head against a wall. And if that doesn`t help, try doing it while you are running REALLY FAST!

Samina, ignore Aristotle`s comments for the only ``garbage`` around here, is the one spewing out of his mouth. Once again: You did a wonderful job!

K!

asim hayat#23

read it again..i must say again:)

forgery...nothing else..

and its a trait of chowk interactors...either they fight and bring india-pak debate even if out of context....or they start praising crappy material....

Re: Aristotle

Its the easiest thing to do;critique for the sake of critique. I would have thought, you, i.e. Aristotle of all the people would have known that.

Shame we all aspire to be great names, not knowing what they stood for in their wisdom, and their outlook. Intellectual Dwarfism is a congenital disease of us south asians.

Adaab,

Asim

NO really people this article is GARBAGE...... and its no surprise that the most cynical and contemptous of all are the followers of Ayn Rands theory of objectivism...... oh yes because you have to look down on everyone to feel you are up on the sky......... Really people...... Bravo to this article for atleast making that point clear........ instead of Ayn rand you should read Iqbal and his theory of ``khudi`` ........... the explaination of ``I`` and the strength of an ``individuall`` and how he can be productive to the society........... read the life of Jinnah see how individuall strive and masses follow.....

Aside from you philosophy your style of narration is not very becoming either...... you didnt build the character properly....... he seems more like a lunatic than a sane pessimist to whom atleast I might have been able to relate that is when my emotions would be at the lowest ebb....... oh and one more thing it really lacks originality...... for all the afore mentioned reasons your article deserves a thumbs down...... hope you do a good job next time......

Aristotle

samina

........i hate to disappoint you, but all you can hope for is that in twenty years you will go from being angry to cynical - unless, of course, you take krashid`s advice and join the tafseer circuit ...... my generation tried the che posters and mazdoor-kissan party conventions and miraj muhammad khan and study cirles with professor sahib in his tiny bhaitak in purani anarkali and pot and mandies and those little blue pills and goethe and rousseau and psychedelic music ...........

......... on second thought - listen to krashid, or you might end up a blabbering idiot like me ..........

Sorry people, after reading it again....

It`s Nothing but pretentious and ostentatious forgery......wonder why can`t you see through the charade.......

It`s all so glaringly made up!

Hi Samina,

Read the work, loved it, partially because I could hear myself in it. I could really feel a sense of frustration. Everyone accept myself were mugged (though not at gun point), so I cannot fully empathise with you but am very close to it.

Loved the descriptions e.g. ``My head throbs with pain, bursting at the seams, threatening to explode just like an overripe tomato that meets an eventful end as it splatters onto the ground.``

Just one thing; dedicate a special place in your brain for your failures, fears and miseries and cherish that part of your being. If you have a strong will to survive, this part will become your treasure, provided of course, you can tap into this reservoir and transduce it into something positive.

Ride the waves, do not drown in them ļ

One day, Samina, I`m gonna write with you; then again, you`ll be famous and I`ll be just another soft cog in society`s steel cold machine.

From another frustrated pissed off individual in his 22s.

Take care and best wishes

Omar Phoenix

Shamina,

Dont waste your time and more importantly energy in writing to chowk, as some one said, to deliver raw emotions, the subcon hatred over the internet. Join Atlaf Hussain, create a future. What is needed is not an interpretation of the present, nor rage against it, but the energy to change it. Try a new path.

regards

jay

Samina -

Powerfully written article - You showed the vulnerability and anger that results when an illusion is shattered. The struggle to control chaos, to find meaning in madness so the mind can understand. It`s refreshing to read an article with emotion expressed clearly, and anger is the most expressive emotion of all. Faithful be damned indeed. Stay cynical for now - time will take care of all.

On a side note - I like ice cream and oreos too, but never developed much respect for Ayn Rand. Found too much pseudo-philosophy and pseudo-intellectualism for my taste. I might take another look.

Keep writing.

Samina:

Anyone who loves Ayn Rand deserves oreos and ice-cream.....lots of it :)

Welcome.

later

-sac

Samina Wahid#

A very good read.

Why don`t you turn to Islam. It will cure all evils as it has done for last fourteen hundred years.

And these commies and liberals who are in police and law enforcement agencies should be shot dead.

Governemnt should be hailed in its endeavour for the betterment of its own lot.

And you are not people but scum fit for a Islamic Danda.

Have you researhed history of those criminals. They may have come due to their needs and their need might be more than yours. At least that is Islamic spirit reached to us through stories.

Similar sentiments were expressed by my mother when I told her about my going to Pakistan. She mentined three incidences of gun point robbery in my lane in one month.

Your writing took me back again to memories of the vibrant city which feeds poor to billionaire equally well and where people used to laugh and smile in bad times.

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Dear Samina:

Wishes ARE horses, which is why we can ride them.I do not want to sound trite and say that I will cheer you to the winning post, for hollow victory is for spent forces.

I think you have the boon to blaspheme, and get angry -- with god, the world, and I do hope yourself. We all wish that the wrong people die, and find that the right ones do. It is not our fault. Destiny likes to leave the dirt behind,perhaps to delude us into believing that we are clean.

Once when I too did bite my lip and drew blood, I felt violence coursing through my veins -- it was a violence against myself. For, if you are sensitive,as you so obviously are, you internalise every act that you see. You become that. Is it your insanity you are flying like a pennant or the collective insanity that is being projected onto you?

If you must have faith, it should be in the ability to walk a lonely road. How I would have loved to share those ice-creams with you, but the darned things melt barely have I moved two steps... and here we have miles to cover to exchange notes on respective madness. Oh sure, Atlas shrugged. And they say the world is a small place. I hope you cover enough ground. I`ve done it and found that I prefer the clouds.

It is as close to home as I can get :)

Love,

Farzana

Such bitter hatred and deep vehemence against the society that you yourself are part of and is a creation of your parent`s generation. I wish I could say something to make you feel better, but realize that the problem is not only the people around you.

Re: Samina Wahid

I loved it Samina. What anger! What flow of thoughts! Powerful. Beautiful.

You are right Samina. Damn the skeptics. Damn the believers and the pacifists. Damn all those who see the light at the end of the tunnel. Damn the blinds with eyes. They are among Pakistan`s worst enemies.

Loved the ending: ``The skeptics and the pacifists who`ll condemn me...and so I now dance a little dance to the music of this insanity. Perhaps till I`m entirely spent...or perhaps till the day I become insanity itself.`` Brilliant!

Hope to see your more writing at Chowk. You sure are a writer. And only 21! If you can sustain the same level of writing as this one, you will be a famous writer one day, I`m sure.

You make Pakistan proud (quite ironic, I`d say.)

P.S. I loved Ayn Rand`s Howard Roark and Dominique Francon.

I felt that your article failed to arouse the essence of hatered and contempt in me for the system. I think the incidents you limelighted are quite commonplace, and most of us have learned to accept them and to live with them. We all have become remorseless creatures and a little more is needed to mortify us.

Enjoyed this writing very much.
Welcome to CHOWK Samina!
I hope that just the mention of ``Kashmiri Chai``
here does not get the Indian-Pakistani divide
going....

Ras

Samina:

Welcome to Chowk.

Controlled sanity is a boon to creativity. It is a two edged sword though. Pls. keep writing.

lve,

t

Dear Samina,

It is a good piece of writing. A job well done. Please keep writing and sharing with us at Chowk.

I think the most beautiful aspect of this endeavour is that it is incoherently coherent. This (in)coherence goes perfect with the first introductory paragraph.

Bottomline is that I liked it. The other comments may be due to my short attention span; in case you didnt like my comments. Dont take them seriously I am not a critic.

loved the flow of thoughts. having lived in Canada for the past many years, its getting harder and harder to relate to the feelings of anger and skepticism you`ve described. but keep writting, don`t let us or anyone else lose touch with the reality. stay sane.

jasmin

read your peiece and i join you in your damnation of the creatures that walk this soil. i was robbed earlier this week..woken to the terrifying sounds of my parents resisting those things with which we share our oxygen. and to depend on the LAW - the LAW which is governed by those who secure themselves and only speak of the despicable that happens to us. the LAW that claims to control the crime but never do we see what it is that they`re doing to diminish it. The LAW that we are controlled by so mercilessly that it eats me up inside, twists my mental state and makes me hate every single thing, suspect every single stranger and panic at every small sound that i hear in the middle of the night. In broad daylight they walk into our space and violate us with such terror...

I don`t know what it is that we can possibly Do, like REALLY DO to kill the scum that reigns with such supremacy. Guns? You know, i still see that every minute.. me shooting the bloody humans with a gun to THEIR head. watch their terror as we hold them down to their death.

i probably sound violent..but who wouldn`t be after such hell?

by the way, The Fountainhead is the only book i`ve read about 478 times. :)

things won`t get better. the only faith you can have is in what we don`t see...a Force we`ve grown up listening about.. But even then, it`s not easy to believe when all we`re surrounded by is Evil..and it makes you wonder in the fairness of it all...

welcome!

you seem to have smelled the coffee just now...

Looks like you need to go on a journey to figure out the purpose of life.

In essense you have to figure out if there is a God and if there is, what amount of control does he have on us and what does he want us to do with our lives.

What you have gone through are some difficult times which are (in my opinion) events to give you an opportunity to look for something beyond the mundane materialistic life.

One remains engrossed in a cyclical rat race untill something like this happens and that is the time to try to find the bigger picture. Subjugation to materialism and pompusness has resulted in making us a nation full of people worried about their position, status and has filled our hearts with greed and envy. Ours is one country where most people want that those who they percieve to be materially richer than them, to meet a horrific end. Why is that? Why are we so consumed with competition and jelousy?

Good luck if you try to embark on this journey. I believe this is a wakeup call for you and similar wakeup calls happen to most people sometimes in their lives. The point is do you grab them or miss them else you can remain bitter about whats happening to them and get caught in a cycle of jelousy and materialism like most people in Pakistan.

Well done Samina , and wish you many happy years ahead with your interest in writing !

I must admit though in your article, when the guns and breakin`s came into mention I instantly recognised you as a Karachite, without any hesitation.

Truly hope things are not that bad now.Its so sad to see karachi being twinned with so many evils !

Regards,

Shirin

Samina, welcome to Chowk. It`s a well-written piece. However, I could have done without the blasphemic remark. Blasphemy is not only hideous, but also depicts a writer`s weak sense of expression, for it makes the words trite and cheap simultaneously.

Having said that, I truly enjoyed the imagery, and metaphors. Persevere, and you shall definitely write that book one day.

Regards,

Kiran

Samina, welcome to Chowk. It`s a well-written piece. However, I could have done without the blasphemic remark. Blasphemy is not only hideous, but also depicts a writer`s weak sense of expression, for it makes the words trite and cheap simultaneously.

Having said that, I truly enjoyed the imagery, and metaphors. Persevere, and you shall definitely write that book one day.

Regards,

Kiran