Open Letter to Prime Minister Vajpayee

harimau #425

``You HAVE to record your idiocy in print for posterity, right?``

``Basic fact: people like you should not be allowed out alone.``

Arguments are not won by calling people names or insulting them. Relax.

I do know that Vajpayee and others were in the Jan Sangh which during the Jay Prakash Narayan movement during Emergency merged with the Janata Party. But the fact remains that BJP won only two seats in their first election in 1984 (sympathy for Indira Gandhi or not) and went up to their current tally of 170 plus, part of it due to the Ayodhya issue.

And Harimau, you can back off Farzana too.

Farzana#429

I thought Bofors would be the last defence scandal seeing the way it humiliated Congress Govt and ousted them from the power. So powerful was its impact that Congress having around 450 seats was reduced to mere 195 seats. But time proved it was my naivette. I always believed that the whatever his views are, the personal integrity and honesty of George Fernandes are above reproach. But may be it is not entirely correct. What do you think are the short term solutions for preventing such sort of scandals. I think the the rot has infected the whole system.

If you replace this Govt with Congress, nothing will change but the constitutional heads. Do you think e-governence and long denied transparency in the defense deals can solve the problem. If so, who will bell the cat ie make the system transparent.

On long term solutions, what do you think is the reason corruption is prevalent to such a high extent in third world nations. What are the socio-economic factors behind it. Are we destined to wallow in corruption or will it go away with the economic progress in time. How should the economy(budget) be taken care of in such a political turmoil.The PSUs are another means by which the political leaders interfere with the industry, encouraging corruption. Would privatisation help. Should people of India demand transparency from the govt more vociferously.

PS Ignore the nasty personal attacks. Those who do so only debase themselves. Our only identity is that all of us are citizens of India. And our progress collectively is linked with a strong and prosperous nation.

Urstruly # 420 (gosh, that is your post number from chowk and we Indians have nothing to do with it . . . btw does Pakistan have the same Section 420 of Penal Code as do we in India?) . . . please appreciate that 99% of India, maybe more, and 99% of Hindus, maybe more, and possibly 99% of Pakistanis, maybe more, and 99% of Muslims, maybe more, etc.etc. . . are too busy trying to earn a living, get food, build a roof and having sex to go about having time to hate you.

So may I request you to ignore them and let us get along, no?

Cheers

PM re:412

{Though I think the question of `when his life was threatened` is left unanswered.}

Well, to encapsulate… the leaders of the Quraish ie the leaders of Mecca sent assassins to kill Muhammad (only he had escaped), send them to search the desert for him and kill him, and sent 3 armies to destroy Medina while he was there. When he conquered Mecca, he didn’t line them up and kill them. Though I’m sure that they do fit the definition of at the very least, threatening to kill him.. So that’s a pretty small body count compared to when the Lord Himself gets into the act, as in Sodom and Gomorrah or the firstborns of Egypt!

{Rsaxena might ruffle a few feathers every now and then, but the worst I`ve seen him do is throw a verse or two at you. I haven`t seen him announce a This-is-Muslim-bashing-week,-so-I`ll-label-all-Muslims-beysharam Week. He ridicules beliefs, not people.}

Throwing your support behind a person who does those things makes you equally culpable.. though indeed I fail to see how the ‘occasional verse’ counts as harmless. Obviously your observations of Rsaxena being a non-attacking-people type are not ones that I share.. because I think that he does. Nor do I see how attacking beliefs is a much better option than attacking people.

{harimau just hasn`t been around enough for me to think about protesting, but I must say that s/he, forceful as he is, does an excellent job of exposing and refuting Muslim disdain for Hindus,}

So, um, this is a time limit you set before deciding if someone is bigoted or not? Nor do I share your observation that s/he is restricted to an agenda of such ‘refutation’. Basically every post is slamming Islam and Muslims, from the core beliefs to the Messenger to the current practicioners. I might be inclined to regard it as an example of Hindu disdain for Muslims. But since he’s presumably also attacking beliefs, not people, I guess its kosher..

{most of the time when they are suppposedly ``insulting Islam``, they are simply pointing out well documented facts... documented in Islamic litt.}

Ah, now here I falter for an argument. Basically because of ignorance. I can’t say whether the sources they quote are crap.. or not. Probably the only person here who COULD would be the Naqashbandi, but he praised the person who threatened to cut of a childs head who disliked a fruit the Prophet (PBUH) enjoyed, so there goes THAT option.. As I said, my source for the life of the Prophet (PBUH) is Martin Lings’ book.. who does not mention these things. I don’t have it with me, so what he has to say about Ayesha, and what the existing Arab customs of the day regarding age of ‘majority’ were, I can’t look up. But then, we have devout Muslims who claim that there are hadis that praise the use of camel urine – how many of us have heard of that? You could say that the history of Muhammad (PBUH) has been sanitized by his followers.. but if he was the kind of man as has been claimed, would he be remembered by history as he is? Could you rewrite Attila or Chengiz Khan, or Vlad, as good guys for the world? Would Hazrat Abu Bakr have forgiven him for raping his daughter?

{So you`ll forgive me if I, as someone who had to listen no end about the corruption of my erstwhile religion and the metaphysical perfection of islam all my life, stand by and even enjoy the spectacle of hypocrisies being pointed out.}

I have a friend who grew up in a devout Muslim household. So devout, in fact, that he became an avowed atheist. He now relishes anything that puts Islam down. But he acknowledges the he likes many things he might not have otherwise, if not for the anti-religion (specifically Islam) aspect. I suspect something similar here. I apologize for any indignities you had to suffer. I can understand if THAT is the reason why you will call out anybody who uses the name of Islam, and support anyone who puts down Islam. But then I’d ask you to drop the façade of intellectual objectivity.

{Krashid, however seems to find no redeemable qualities in anyone from across the border. If that is not bigotry, tell me what is!}

Many of those from across the border whom you defend express the very same sentiments equally baldly. But they’re yoda-kosher?

Ref Farzana Versey #: 429

Quite the Artful Dodger, aren`t you, Farzana?

So the issue of destruction of the cultural heritage of a country has been neatly sidestepped. Your support of Feroze Khan`s article supporting the destruction of the Bamiyan statues is ignored. The culpability of the Taliban in the harm they have done to the Afghan population at large, and Afghan women in particular, in the name of Islam is not addressed.

But you have time to wax eloquent about how poor little Farzana is being called names and attacked and threatened for being a Muslim in India.

In December when I was in India, there was a small news item on Star TV. In a locality outside New Delhi, a poor Muslim girl who was pulled out of school by her father at age 13, put inside a burqa and kept at home was rescued a couple of years later by a women`s organization. (The fact that the women who rescued this girl are Hindus is neither here nor there.) She was then taken into a non-formal school and educated till she completed high school. This beautiful girl said -- with gentle determination born out of strong conviction, not defiance -- that she would teach every illiterate woman in her neighborhood to read and write. She was out of a burqa, wearing a saree with the palloo draped over her head in becoming modesty, and faced the camera steadily. She was going against her father`s wishes but she was no longer afraid of her father. Her inner strength came from the knowledge she has gained that she has rights too as a person and that she was not the chattel of her father and her future husband.

I was deeply moved by what I saw. These are the people -- the forces -- that will change Indian society, be it Dalit, Muslim, Tribals, impoverished, powerless, disenfranchised, or downtrodden.

What have you done with your education, Farzana? I see you crying crocodile tears over the Afghan children, over the Chechens, the Palestinians and the Kashmiris. You bemoan the fact that you are underprivileged as a Muslim in India, yet talk about how your lifestyle in Bombay is more than what a knicker-clad RSS brownshirt can afford. Instead of fighting the obscurantism preached by the mullahs of India, you support the indefensible in Afghanistan.

You have the freedom to speak and write in India. You say you are threatened but so have been any journalist who writes against powerful forces. But you are threatened for your perceived anti-national attitudes. Why do you, as a Bombay resident, care about what happens in distant Kashmir? If the Kashmiris, after being subsidized for 50 years, send their children off to jihad school let the Army deal with them. Why is that your concern? How about going to Mahim instead and working with the women of the Muslim underclass there?

But that would mean getting off your high horse, walking through the garbage strewn alleys, and facing irate Muslim men who want to treat their wives and daughters as chattel. And getting your shoes dirty despite every effort to sidestep the human and animal excrement. Why do all that when you can conveniently sit in an airconditioned office and fulminate against the Hindu Establishment?

Oh Farzana, we Hindus have Brahmanized you!

All the more reason for you to move to Kabul and re-charge your Islamic soul!

PM #419

Give me one name from across the border, whom I can respect. Shankar is an exception probably because he shirked his Indian ness.

I have had too much respect for Indians before coming to this board. But these interactions taught me a lot.

AIMS and other Indian advances in education made me impressed about them.

But if degree is producing such pathetic effect on people`s behaviour and thoughts than a village simpleton is better than educated ape.

And bring the refrences.

Not like the board you never returned to answer.

My dear Farzana,

Its been a long time since we last spoke civilly. And maybe the fault is mine. There are a number of things that got my goat - the first was your rather diffuse response to the issue of Indian ego vs Kashmiri ego as the root cause of the Kashmir problem. I usually like point-counterpoint but instead i got point-counterspray and i was left wondering about what the counterspray had to do with the point. But I think I handled that with some humor, however limited my abilities are on that front.

But what really, really pissed me off was your sisterly advise to ali1. Here is a guy full of contempt for Hindus almost all the time and you actually were giving him some friendly advise and then generalizing the ``friendly`` advise as ironic - you said something to the effect: ``dont you see the irony, I can give friendly advise to a Pakistani but the Indians, well they might as well not even exist.`` first of all - i hate generalizations. it was ali1 and truth - why bring in Indians and Pakistanis when specific individuals are involved? it was uncalled for - and second, you unconsciously lined up with ali1. some other people said: ``truth, dont fall to ali1`s level.`` you went the other way. and with all due respect, ali1 is not worthy.

with regard to tehelka, i have been active on other boards, not at Chowk, analyzing tehelka. i consider chowk an indo-pak board and a pakistani board. i usually dont try to use it for domestic indian stuff. the whole hindu-muslim thing in india, kashmir thing is strongly tied up with indo-pak so i think this is an appropriate forum for that. to be honest with you, i used to consider hindu-muslim relations in india a purely indian thing but thanks to the internet, i have discovered that pakistanis take their muslim identity very seriously and feel connected to every hindu-muslim thing in india. i dont grudge them that - it is appropriate if they feel so connected. it shows up on chowk. given that indians outnumber pakistanis, i generally dont want to innundate this forum with india-centric stuff. and for the most part, i do not interfere in domestic pakistani or islamic debates, since i am neither pakistani nor muslim.

so a long winded answer as to why i didnt participate and i was offended by your reference to obsession with afghanistan as lack of interest in discussing indian corruption. if you see the indian press, you can see this issue has caused a sensation.

Love,

Truth

PS: Sorry to chowkies for a little personal correspondence on this board

The B.I.T.C.H. and other animals

“I was NOT calling Farzana any names. In the Bombay tabloid ``Afternoon D&C`` last Thursday, she revelled in calling herself a B.I.T.C.H. Check out www.afternoondc.com. There was even another article about what is a woman`s b.i.t.c.h. quotient based on her answers to a set of questions. Let Farzana dare to tell you that I am lying when I say this.”

The article on the woman’s B quotient had nothing to do with my column; the paper probably found something they could tag onto my piece. Yes, I wrote a column called ‘The B.i.t.c.h.’. The acronym, Babe In Total Control Of Herself, was something that was forwarded to me, and I said so; the person had asked me to urge my women readers to smile when anyone called them a B.I.T.C.H. and say thank you. Not many of you will have access to the site or the time to do so, but let me clarify what I said after that. I quote: “I know it isn’t easy. I must also confess that although I have been called all manner of names, this one has eluded me, and I feel cheated, even before this definition came my way. What was I seeking through it? Control of myself? Does that help in the real world, where you have to control the rest? I admit that is not big in my scheme of things. But I do feel the need for release, often from imagined shackles.” End quote.

About “impure thoughts on blowjobs”, that is my business, and if it is sending someone on a fantasy trip, I really don’t give a damn.

“Did I ever say deport Farzana to Kabul? No, I offered to pay her good money to keep her in comfort while she enjoys the True Islamic lifestyle of the Taliban. I mean, here is the woman who is talking about `real azaadi Kashmir`; I want her to taste life real Islamic style. As I promised, she will get enough money to live in as much comfort as she has in Bombay.”

Ok, send the cheque. I will forward it to one of those saffron journos, who can visit one of our villages and learn the real Dalit lifestyle and cohabit with an untouchable and give birth to even more untouchables, who will one day become Naxalites. I am saying this because my tastes are rather expensive and with the khaki knicker level mentality and purse strings, I cannot be kept in fine fettle. Besides, how does anyone here know the comforts I am used to in Bombay?

As for name-calling, let each one find what they feel rolls off their tongue best.

Chowkwallas will have to indulge me for a while. I do criticise the treatment meted out to Muslims in India, but I have always spoken as an Indian, and have ticked off Pakistani comments often enough. However, there have been unwarranted suspicions here. I was told that since I was being nasty I must take it on the chin. I was nasty towards a group of fundamentalists in my country, and if they happen to belong to a certain religion, so be it. But, I have not hit out at people personally.

But they have. My nationality has been questioned; I have been asked to find some other country. People said I have been sponsored by the Taliban, I am a Lashkar agent. I have been forced into a Muslim stereotype and pushed into a chador (I have never asked anyone about their dhotis). People whose qualifications/credentials I have no inkling about have questioned mine repeatedly. Someone psychoanalyses me in ten points, which is supposed to make me sound like someone from outer space, another pompously tells me that being so inadequate I have to resubmit all that I have said. Yes, my gender and sexual orientation too have been questioned, in rather colourful language – like do I have a moustache? How would I look walking about the streets drunk with scattered hair all over my face? I have been called the resident vamp (and been here just four months), the temptress; I have been told that I need to get laid.

When after 600 posts to an article of mine, I said I had nothing more to add to the discussion, I was told I had surrendered, and when I asked to return there, since somebody else’s Board was being used to hit out at me, I was called an attention-seeker. I have been made answerable on every Board of mine as also for every post of mine. This intrigues me, for in recent times, some writers have barely made an appearance – Amitava, Anand, Sharmila. True, I personally feel responsible for my comments and I do want to interact and clarify/educate myself. But I can lay a bet that were I to stay away, it will be called arrogance or a cop-out.

Now, don’t say this is whining. You wouldn’t if you got threatening calls, and letters which expressively state that they wished to see my legs blown off in a bomb blast (for those sympathising on Anwar`s board, it happens in India too), my windows have been pelted with stones, my mother has been followed in the streets to extricate information about my whereabouts. And when an editor told a shrill caller to write a letter against me, he was told pointedly, “Oh no, we will take care of her ourselves.”

I have never brought in all this when we were discussing my articles. I thought the issues were important. But I have realised that some people wallow in making me into an issue, and then blaming me for that as well. What can I say?

Farzana

Re: TEHELKA:

I thank those of you have come forward to comment, and taken my plea as just that and not seen any ulterior motives in it.

Eklavya, Pankaj, Cheraym, Layman, Sadhana:

I think we are all agreed that something has to be done. I do not know if those goons should be shot in the streets, Eklavya, and I don’t think that is advisable, but the level of cynicism confounds me. Today, the Indian cricket team won, and you know what people are saying – could this be a pay-off? We have become a country of disbelievers. And, Cheraym, I do not pray, but as an Indian, I can only hope.

I do not know whether I want any juicy stuff, but will this scam really shake anything up? As I expected and said in an earlier post, the RSS has distanced itself. The government too has got George Fernandes to resign, so that the real power center is safe. When I asked for the ruling party to resign, it was as a government, not as a party with leanings I do not like; for me the Bofors case is as reprehensible as this one, but the least we can do is use the obvious evidence.

Layman, no one in politics is incorruptible; but the least they can do is not make the country into a cheap pawn. And, yes, you are right about serving army officials being part of the game. No wonder they have a problem recruiting people, but if it is so lucrative I think this aspect should be marketed; knowing how the kids these days look for filthy lucre we may indeed have a fattened armed force.

Sadhana, I agree with you about George Fernandes’ honesty; I have long admired him for his plainspeaking. But power and, more importantly, keeping it, brings out the worst in people. He has quit; that does not solve the problem. I am afraid what a few politicians do does affect the entire country, especially in such a scenario. I am not too sure there will be a “total revelation of facts”, for there are too many lobbies at work. There are also sniggers that the Tehelka team has been sponsored by people who want to topple the government. It is all in the realm of possibility, but it still does not exonerate anyone.

(“To be honest, I feel great pride at the present state of affairs and though the connection will seem obscure to most, I feel pride by association also in the sense, many good things come from Kerala :).” ----- Of course, you may choose not to talk about it, but I am curious… have always considered myself an honorary Malayalee.)

Pankaj, you are right about the dot-coms coming out in the open. There was a time when I had a snooty attitude towards them, but I realized that when newspapers are too busy promoting social wannabes, it is the others who will do the real exposes.

Tibor: It is unfortunate that when I ask people to look in our own backyard, you get so defensive. “If you have something to say, write and article and post it?

You are just like a little child waiting for someone to say something about BJP and scandal so you can jump in with your two cents.”

It is precisely because I am not well-versed in defence matters and their larger ramifications that I wanted more knowledgeable people to comment. As you should know by now, if there is something I have to say, I say it. In my country, btw, they call it paise, not cents. Anyway, after that unnecessary preamble to just get at me, you did say something. Thanks.

Truth: What has got into you? You started interacting with me as Farzanaji, then Farzana ben and then… classic case of aap se tum, tum se tu hone lagi…never mind. Despite your disagreement with me, I had given you a very civil response at that time and you came out attacking not just what I said but a lot of other things too. I stayed away from responding because I did not want it to become a personal battle on somebody else’s Board. Besides, I am still confused as to why you felt the need to make those snide remarks. About the topic under discussion, you say, “Your goading of Indians on the board with regard to tehelka.com is comical. Maybe you see a connection between Taliban`s activities and the Indian defence scams that has escaped ordinary mortals. Or

is it that you feel you have found something to attack the people who have attacked the Taliban? Shooting the messenger, eh?”

If I did see a grand hidden meaning I am quite capable of expressing it. For now, I am as worried about my country as any Indian ought to be. If you find that comical, it reveals just how seriously you take my country. It does not diminish my concern in any way.

Farzana

#420 urstruly

No. Most certainly not!

Ref Harpreet #: 414

[Harimau:

It is time to cool it down man.]

What is the problem, Sardarji?

Just a month after people like you, JSandhu, MaheshG, sadhana, headshrinker, and a host of others were trying to tell me how nice and tolerant those Muslims are -- why, they brought you some lamb briyani for Eid just the other day too -- they have proved you wrong. Me, I am just trying to see what Farzana has got to say, after her crocodile tears about starving Afghans, raped Kashmiris, bombed Chechens, and a host of other ills that have befallen the peace-loving Muslims of the world.

Perhaps Farzana is not pious enough; that is why she is living in Dar-ul-Harb as opposed to leading the pious Islamic life in Kabul.

Why is she trying to change the subject to defense corruption in India?

Let us not forget: all that is happening in Afghanistan is a repetition of what has happened everyehere the Muslims had power. No matter how strenuously these people deny history, it cannot be denied anymore.

Ref Layman #: 415

[Basic fact: There was no BJP in Nehru`s time. BJP was formed only in 1980 after the Janata Party was beaten in the elections by the Congress and the ``dual membership`` controversy. So, Anand Patwardhan and ROmair are right in saying the BJP went from 2 seats in 1984 (BJP`s first general elections contest) to where they are today.]

You HAVE to record your idiocy in print for posterity, right?

The BJP is the successor party to the Jan Sangh. You think 70+ year-old Vajpayee entered politics in his 50s in 1984? What party did Vajpayee, Advani, etc., belonged to before 1984?

By the same logic, Congress (I) went from zero seats in Nehru`s time to a magnificent victory in elections after the creation of Bangladesh. So why don`t you excoriate Indira Gandhi as the ultimate Paki-basher and Muslim-hater? Let me remind you: the courts have held that Congress (I) did not even own the election symbol of Nehru`s Congress, so it is a new party.

The fact that you went to school doesn`t mean you have learnt anything. I try telling you not to be pedantic but you don`t want to listen and have to expose your shallow arguments to the public.

Why are some of you calling the BJP Gandhi-killers if the BJP had no association with the Jan Sangh, RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, and a host of other unsavoury characters?

Basic fact: people like you should not be allowed out alone.

Re: PM

``Krashid, however seems to find no redeemable qualities in anyone from across the border. If that is not bigotry, tell me what is!``

Give him a break...as the village simpleton, it`s his right to be an ignoramus and write incomprehensible posts.

Re: PM

``So you`ll forgive me if I, as someone who had to listen no end about the corruption of my erstwhile religion and the metaphysical perfection of islam all my life, stand by and even enjoy the spectacle of hypocrisies being pointed out.``

This is an all too common feature of Islam. Obviously not every single Muslim participates but too many do. It`s so damn good that the highest growth of Islam is in American prisons (most become repeat offenders).

Re: harimau

``I was NOT calling Farzana any names. In the Bombay tabloid ``Afternoon D&C`` last Thursday, she revelled in calling herself a B.I.T.C.H. Check out www.afternoondc.com.``

At least she has self-awareness.

Kala Kurranta Saab gets his information on Islam from www.answering-islam.org! Is www.kukluxklan.org your source of information on African Americans?

Not only are you an ignorant bigot, you also have no shame in publicizing your ignorance.