Open Letter to Prime Minister Vajpayee

From another board, my posting:

If anybody wants to destroy their personal copy of anything, it is their business. If you went out, bought a Geeta, and burnt it, that would be your business. I may question your judgement but it is your freedom of expression. It is like flag burning, which is constitutionally protected in America. I believe in that freedom.

It only becomes a Nazi activity if the state burns any copy of a holy book or an individual burns your copy of it or a public copy of it.

This is called freedom of press & speech ....Can mr URSTRULY write an open letter to any Karta Dharta In Pakistan...!!...instead of writting on Kashmir..

mass-mak

Ms. Mass-mak I hope you are not referring to the Freedom of Speech the Indian Style, while making the comparison. Dont make me come up here and pull the dhotti down from freedom of speech Indian style-let somethings be unsaid. (I have already got carpel tunnel from this non-stop dhotti pulling).

Re: YLH #61

The VHP goons are a stain on the conscience of India. They are misguided fascist do-no-gooders. Do not dignify their actions by paying attention to them.

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Before Pakistan castigates the Taliban...it should rectify its own record in saving historic sites...

Please read the following article from The News...MARDAN: A number of historical sites were demolished near Hund in Swabi district, as contractors took away soil for filling the sides of Islamabad-Peshawar Motorway, sources said here on Wednesday.

Hund is a known historical and archaeological site. It remained the capital of Raja Ombi at the time of Alexander the Great, Raja Ananda Pal and Raja Jaipal at the time of Mahmud Ghaznavi. It was earlier called Uda Bandapur and is said that Alexander the Great met Raja Ombi at this point some time around 327 BC. Lying at the right bank of Indus river, Hund was called O`Hind in the Mughal era.

A number of people of the area told The News that during digging of the mounds numerous coins of gold, silver and copper were found by the workers. They said some of the coins were sold to the local goldsmith for over Rs 8,000 per coin. Most of these coins were found at the Chappay Dheri, which belongs to the Hindu Shahi Buddhist and earlier Islamic periods. A number of gold coins belonging to Buddhist king known as Vasu Deva were also discovered during the digging of these mounds.

According to eyewitnesses, the news of coins discovery at the Hund mounds spread like a jungle fire in the whole area and people hailing from the surrounding areas are now busy day and night digging the remaining mounds in search of coins and other remains. Presently, workers of the relevant contractors are busy in illegal digging of four to five mounds located in the area.

A local wishing anonymity said that seven big marble plates bearing seals of the Hindu Shahi period were also recovered. All these plates are presently in the custody of a local goldsmith. He said a Peshawar-based antique smuggler has offered Rs 1 million against only three plates while the goldsmith is demanding Rs 1.5 million.

Several concerned people expressed disappointment over the destruction of this great archaeological site and urged the government to protect it from further destruction. He claimed that presently each and every person of the area was in possession of gold, silver and copper coins, which should be confiscated by the government in the greater national interest. He also appealed to the authorities to stop further destruction and digging of these mounds by the contractors.

Truth #45:

[.... is it possible for a Muslim majority, as per Islam, to elect as its head of ``state`` a person from a non-Muslim minority...]

I am not really well versed. But from what little I have read the head of ‘state’ has to be a pious Muslim. But the head of ‘government’ could be a non-Muslim. There have been instances where under Caliphs the ‘government’ was headed by non-Muslims including jews.

Latif Chappu #47:

We can argue over conceptual differences but the line between upholding and challenging is a gray one. The important thing is tolerance for their legitimate efforts. The task maybe difficult in degrees only in our countries. It appears even more difficult this side of the border given our cavalier attitude for law and legal institutions and the meddling influences of the military feudal stranglehold.

Eklavya 46:

Given the tenuous hold of civil rights in Pakistan the brave fighters of this side have a more onerous task ahead of them. Specially more so in a clime where bullets reign supreme rather than the ballots on any given humid day.

Should we wait for ‘such women to arise in Pakistan?’ Yes, and support them to the hilt if we can. There is always hope where such tenacity exists in the face of overwhelming adversity.

Pardesi #51:

[...The people you mentioned are all muslims, right?..]
Not if you belief some of them.

Yes I see the irony. But then again it is perception, is it not?

Eklavya #59

You have been gracious.

[... Chances are we will almost always disagree on many important issues ...]

Wrong. Surprised?

I will agree with your statement with a major change. I will change ‘disagree’ to ‘agree’ and am sure of one thing. If and when we do disagree it will be a civil disagreement. I strongly suspect from your tone in this and other interacts you believe in live and let live.

Now even when our cricket teams loses ten matches in a row while playing with India, I will still disagree with you. Our player are, you see much better. There..... :)

regards,

temporal


I myself rarely manage to keep my tone as civil it as it should be. For example, when I mouth off about this Pakistani or that, I almost always mean a group of people who (in my opinion) have come to dominate the decision-making apparatus in Pakistan. Do I make that clear as often as I should? No!!

Actually, Truth and Scout, Pakistan has sent peacekeeping forces to Rwanda as part of the UN (I think anyway). And, Truth, if you`ll notice in my post I say nothing about India or Kashmir. I don`t think India in particular can be singled out for its behavior. I said ``world`` and ``international community`` which for your information consists of many countries, not just India.

As for what have I personally done for Rwanda? Nothing. But, I did sponsor an Iraqi war orphan at one point during the 90s. We do what we can.

ylh :

The VHPites should not have burnt the Quran. No good can come from that kind of hatred.

-Arun

I am happy to see sane Indian voices condemning fundamentalism be it Muslim or Hindu... Mutual acceptance and tolerance of each other amongst progressive elements of both Pakistan and India is

a far more admirable goal that unification of these two sovereign nations. I hope this too is realized by my Indian Friends.

Yasser Hamdani

Studebaker:

My post#22 was addressed to the author - not to you.

Open Letter to Anand Patwardhan:

The symmetry you suggest is a false one. The Babri Masjid was built by destroying a Hindu temple in the first place. You seem to have a great problem digesting this simple fact. The Bamiyan Buddhas are, in fact, not the first time the Buddha has come in for stick at the hands of Islamic marauders. Go see the ruins of the Nalanda University in Bihar. The Taleban are simply follwoing in the footsteps of their `illustrious` predecessors and this current vandalism wouldn`t even make it to the ``Top 1000 Atrocities of Islam in India`` list.

The thing with Anand Patwardhan is that nobody can ever accuse him of being consistent in his `thinking.` Take for instance this:

``...that demolishing it, hurt the sentiments of a religious minority as well as the sentiments of a secular (though unfortunately largely silent) majority...``

and then he concedes that

``Your party had two seats in Parliament before it started the campaign to demolish the Masjid. The campaign brought you to power...``

Clearly the majority sentiment was not as hurt as Patwardhan fantasizes. It is only a muddle-headed fellow like him who can assert something and disprove it himself in the next para. Keep it up, Pats!

tantralogician

shammi

``Re: YLH #61

The VHP goons are a stain on the conscience of India. They are misguided fascist do-no-gooders. Do not dignify their actions by paying attention to them.``

Unfortunately, one SHOULD pay attention to the likes of VHP, Bajrang Dal etc. We should insist on the law being strictly enforced. As per Indian law, it is an offence to show disrespect and hurt sentiments of religions and the burning of the Quran is clearly one such act. What action has been taken against the perpetrators? It is not sufficient to criticise the VHP and keep quiet. We should follow up and ensure that the LAW is enforced.

Ditto for the rantings of Bal Thakeray. His mindset is so removed from that of the secular majority(?) that we instantly dismiss him as a crank. We do not insist that the law be applied to him. But Thakeray is much more dangerous than a mere crank.

I think one of our failures as Indians is that we do not enforce the law. We may have the best laws and the best Constitution adhering to the noblest principles, but if violations are not punished and law-breakers are tolerated and even voted to power, we are weakening our adherence to these principles.

Re: Shankar 18

Thank for restoring my faith in the inate intelligence of the indian.

The destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas is completely unjustifiable. I tend to agree that it is more a political act than one of a religious conviction.

Burning a Quran in India? Again, a political act. Remember, Allah forgives all, so who is man, his creature, to not forgive.

Chowkis we are in some serious doo do. Of all the people in this miserably poor subcontinent (where an annual income between $4000-$8000) qualifies one to be middle class), we get a chance to interact with one another and we can`t seem to get to basic positions we can all agree on and it`s not like there are millions of us, we`re a handful. If we really are the cutting edge, the avant of our communities, we are in some really big trouble.

What are the issues that can bring us together? How do we structure those issues so that the concensus (even a loose concensus) is maintained? Does anybody have any ideas?

Another academic, by the following quotes, suggests a pattern in what is going on with the Taliban.

-Arun the Infidelator

It should be pointed out that the Taliban`s edicts have not only demanded the destruction of ancient Buddhist relics, they are also calling for Shia shrines to be destroyed.

In general, the editors of the list are hesitant to post messages that use excessive quotes. However, I am forwarding this selection of highly edited excerpts from Pakistani newspapers to underscore what is happening to the people of Pakistan, vis-a-vis their fear of the ``Talibani Jihadis``. In so doing, I will not personally or professionally, in my own words, make any statements that could be construed as critical of the Deobandi/Wahabi/Taliban axis:



DAWN

Sunday, 04 March, 2001

At least 9 dead in sectarian attacks in Punjab

ISLAMABAD, March 4: At least nine people including two policemen died in sectarian attacks against the Shiite community today.



DAWN

Friday, 02 March, 2001

Hangu riots claim 8 lives: Curfew clamped, shoot-on-sight ordered

By Intikhab Amir

PESHAWAR, March 1: An indefinite curfew was imposed on Hangu town after eight people were shot dead and five others wounded in sectarian violence on Thursday, official sources said. [all Shias]



The Friday Times, Jan. 12, 2001

Shia-Sunni clashes in Orakzai Agency



Renewed Shia-Sunni clashes in the Orakzai Agency in the North-West Frontier Province, [100 dead. . ] belong to the Shia community [. . ] reminiscent of the Shia-Sunni violence of 1987 and 1998, which claimed 100 lives. [. . .] clashes began with the controversial reconstruction of the shrine of Hazrat Syed Anwar Shah. . .

[The Shia community] decided to repair the shrine [. . ] elders from both Shia and Sunni communities entered into an agreement before the reconstruction….

[. . .] Despite the agreement [. . ] elements from the local Taliban fired at the Shias [. . ] the authorities [stopped] work at the site. But visits to the shrine continued.

The local Taliban eventually asked the administration to stop the Shias from visiting the shrine. [ . . .]

One of the factors behind the violent reaction of the Taleban is [. . ] their aversion to shrines and tombs.

[. . .] Taliban forces have [. . ] implemented Islamic punishments in the area. In June 1999 [. . .] they imposed heavy fines on 40 Shia families [and] forced them to leave their ancestral villages

[. . .] thousands of people affiliated with the Taliban Tehrik and other Sunni tribesmen from [. . ] Orakzai Agency assembled [. . .] to fight the Shia ``attackers.`` [. . The] tension is owed to the rise of the Taliban.[. . ] Deobandi, sectarian groups up in the area [. . ] are rabidly anti-Shia.

These include Jaish-e Muhammad, Hizb-ul Mujahideen, Harkat-ul Mujahideen, Al-Badr and the Wahabbi Lashkar-e-Taiba. [. . ] all these groups are also involved in the jihad in Kashmir.

Shias [ . .] blame the authorities for tolerating the Taliban and giving in to their demands. [. . .] now the authorities are under tremendous pressure from these Taliban and find it difficult to control them [. . ] Taliban [is] a serious threat to the Shia community. . ..



Small wonder that in a story in Sunday`s NYT the Taliban refused an offer from those apostate Shias in Iran to save the Buddhas:



March 4, 2001, Fate of Buddha Statues in Afghanistan Unclear

[. . .] Muslim Iran [. . .] asked the Taliban to spare [. . ] the monuments [saying they] were part of the ``country`s cultural and national heritage and belong to the history of the region`s civilisation in which all humanity has a share.``

[. . ] Muttawakil [said] the Taliban had rejected [. . ] an offer from Iran to buy and take away the two Buddhas. ``We told Iran that it is our duty to preserve our heritage but it was a religious obligation to destroy idols,``



And concerning the Talibanization of Pakistan:

Dawn, 18 February 2001, Op-Ed.: What chance Talibanization?

By Mohammad Waseem

An interesting debate [. . ] going on in millions of households in Pakistan today [. . ] is about the prospect of Taliban-like groups taking over the country. Some dread the prospect as a doomsday scenario; others pray for it as a panacea for the ills of society.

[. . ]

Are the Pakistani counterparts of the Taliban coming to power in the country? [ . . ] The silent majority [. . ] shudders at the idea of gun-toting madrassah students becoming their masters.

[. . ]

Concern about the Taliban and possible Talibanization of Pakistan is now so deep among certain elite sections of society that it has led to a new genre of religious threat perceptions. Taliban-like jihadi groups are now feared the most [. . .]

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Here`s one more quote from a recent DAWN article:

Samiul Haq said regarding his Mujahideen (aka jihadi) forces, ``We all are Osama bin Laden.``

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