Lets Destroy The Bamiyan Buddhas!

In response to jay (Reply # 96)
Dear Jay:

I wonder how your post is related with the content of my last post (Reply # 91).

The Two Nation Theory was a political-strategic ideology constructed by a few (both Muslims and Non-Muslims) in pre-Partition India. From the South Asian Muslim political perspective, this theory first exploded when a large number of Indian Muslims decided to stay in India (and thus not become the citizens of Pakistan). This theory exploded once again when erstwhile East Pakistan decided to become an independent nation-state. In my view, even contemporary Pakistan is not really a nation-state – it is a multinational/multicultural state-nation. This a reality that we all need to come to grips with.

In my Reply # 91, I was talking about the citizenship rights of people. If the purpose of your post is to show that citizenship rights were/are violated in Pakistan and not in India, then you are grossly mistaken. Both India and Pakistan are sailing in the same kind of boats with some differences. It is very hard to predict who will persistently reach the shore without much damage to the life and property.

You are well aware of my critique of the situation in Pakistan. I am also concerned about the future of the people of India. Both India and Pakistan have to go a long way.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to amitg (Reply # 99)
Dear Amit:

I suspect that you assume too much. I don’t normally condemn. Condemn and condemnation are too strong words for me. Any human action that hurts the feelings of “other” people is not acceptable to me, in principle. However, I personally do not believe in saving a statue or a masjid at the cost of human life.

In real human relations, it is sometimes impossible to think and act sensibly. This is what has been happening in “our” part of the world for quite some time.

In my lexicon, unnecessary and uncontrollable emotionalism is nothing but ignorance and sickness. Unfortunately, societal ignorance and sickness cannot be quick fixed, especially in a unequal and unjust world order. Aren`t we facing a gigantic challenge in our ordinary lives? If yes, let us focus on issues facing humanity in a more humanistic way.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1209000/1209051.stm
Pakistani intellectuals call for reconciliation

In the Pakistani city of Lahore more than forty professional people have signed a charter to promote democratic attitudes and fight against religious and sectarian divisions.

The charter is to form the basis of a new intellectual movement, known as the Stability Forum, whose members includes newspaper editors, university professors, writers and business leaders.

The BBC correspondent in Lahore says none of the signatories to the charter owes allegiance to any sect or political group -- and this qualifies them to work for national reconciliation in a country with a history of political and sectarian polarisation.

krashid #95

I do not begrudge Pakistan any of her moderate, intelligent, rational people. In India we can never have too many of them. We face big challenges, as you can see from the following:

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Allahabad+residents+oppose+change+in+city%27s+name%0D&id=10838

What good will come of renaming Allahabad, I do not know. Right now, Prayag is one part of Allahabad, the place where three rivers Ganga, Yamuna, and Saraswati are supposed to meet - one of the holiest sites for Hindus.

These are the kinds of things that understandably frighten people like Studebaker. On the other hand, there are Hindus who feel offended that some of their holiest places have non-Hindu names. How can we arrive at some sort of mutually acceptable accommodation? We need moderates on every side, the more the better.

firstslip #88 ``Even in the real sense of Hinduism I can very well be Hindu by being Muslim as Hinduism isn`t a relegion like Islam, Judaism and Chirstanity are its a way of living integrated into the culture of sub-contenet.``

Are these the kind of profound thoughts you guys at first slip think about, while everyone thinks you are keeping your eye on the ball? Love your spelling, too.

Re Firstslip #88

Hinduism is a religion and a culture. It provides a binding organization to Indian society through a division of labor via the caste system. It also provides a ethical amd moral core, complete with a system of rituals for the individual to conceptualize a meaning for their individual existence, of society and how an individual fits into that society.

If one is Hindu in Kaniya Kumari or in Kashmir, how are they different other than in a geographic or ethnic sense?

``...In the real sense of Hinduism I can be a Hindu by being Muslim...`` How? can you please explain?

Re: Feroze

``I guess it is the Almighty`s way of punishing the GOPers for their greed that He has given us Bush, but seriously, yaar, America does not deserve this idiot and I feel for America having to suffer this moron for the next four years!``

I`ll take Bill Clinton the sleazebag and Rhodes scholar over this bumbling idiot any day. In a time of crisis, I don`t care if Billy is watching a porno but making the right decisions...I`ll take that over Bush sitting there with his bible and panicking.

hamidm #59: ``... now that we have all vented - i would like to try a different tact to see if we can tame these mad mullahs :``

I think thats exactly the stance the author is proposing the world would take because of the Buddha destruction (come to think of it, I aint surprised). Kafirspeak - the world after registering the protest will simply continue the status quo.

Ferozk #58:

``The international community has sought to isolate the Taliban and in doing they have narrowed their own channels of communications with the militia.

Could anyone on this board please give me one valid reason why the Taliban should listen to the world`s opinion in this matter? ``

They needn`t if they dont care about the communication with the intl community.

``International relations demands a modus vivendi, if it serves any interests, even with the satan and in this case, I think that the world has really misjudged its policy towards Afghanistan.``

Probably. I am wondering about Iraq, Libya, the Communist countries of yesteryears, some of which have opposed the west for the sake idealogy (even wrote off the debts by previous govts - Pakistan would do well to emulate this, the world has singled out the Islamic countries and heritage to be unfair). May be the Taleban were politically motivated after all and not religiously in breaking the statues.



``The question is why does the world not ask the Northern Alliance to save the Buddhas of Bamiyan? ``

My guess is that its the Taleban thats destrying the statues not the NA and NA though recognized by the world doesnt have a say in what Taleban does.

`` If it is asking the Taliban to stop and reconsider their ``fatwa``, is it in fact, in toto, suggesting that it considers the Taliban as the as the ``rightful`` government of Afghanistan? ``

Thats one way of looking at it, yes. Though I dont think that the world considers it anymore than talking with a kidnapper than the police of the area about the kidnapped.

Question - is the intl community going to change its modus vivendi wrt Taleban now?

A quote from a news article in Busines online

http://www.hindubusinessline.com/stories/040855af.htm

``In the six years of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, the

Taliban is far, far away from establishing what they claimed

was on their agenda -- an Islamic Utopia. For an Islamic

Utopian state certainly does not envisage a society where

there is strife and violence; where women are treated worse

than chattel, where girls are pulled out of schools and

colleges and women from offices; ``

and yet there are people who write long apologias for the taliban - where were these people when the world asked the taliban to stop their infernal treatment of their people in the name of Islam - these apologist were no where to be seen. They had disappeared in the wood work of Talibanistic Islam and not true Islam.

Bilal #91

India has completely accepted the Two Nation Theory, any pakistani hindu can come and live in india permanently if he surrenders the passport and does not live in any of the border areas. In the last five years, if my memory of India Today article is correct, nearly one thousand pakistanis have immigrated to india. On the contrary, since 1960, pakistan has closed the doors for indian muslims.

regards

jay

EKlavya#93

You are mistaken.

Only Pakistan can produce Qazi Hussain and BAhmed both.

India is producing only one mould these days.

But I appreciate your wishes.

Re: All

I will post detailed replies to most interacts later.

Re: Sigalph235

Yaar, as a fellow GOPer, I have to disagree with you!

I think that George W. Bush is a certified idiot! I think that most GOPers have been so long in the political wilderness that they are just glad to back at 1600 Penn Ave. GOP should not blindly follow GW and should show a little spine and for once show some indivduality.

I am proud of being a republican, but I do not think that GW was the best choice for a republican president.

George should thank Renquist for giving him the elections of 2000 on a judical platter.

Yaar, try not to place too much faith in the Powell-Chenney-Rice-Rumsfield foreign policy dream team. GW would not know the difference from Iraq or A Rag if his poll ratings depended on it! There will be plenty of turf battles ahead as all these egos try to carve a power niche in the Bush administration.

Lets admit the truth...big business paid for Bush`s election and corporate America is making huge returns...after all their errand boy is the president of the United States.

All the GOPers were salivating when USS Ronald Reagan, a four billion dollar aircraft carrier, was recently commissioned in Newport. Even though it galls me to admit this, but I think that Clinton`s style of economic diplomacy was more effective than Bush`s Teddy Rooseveltian ``carry a big stick`` based foreign policy.

I guess it is the Almighty`s way of punishing the GOPers for their greed that He has given us Bush, but seriously, yaar, America does not deserve this idiot and I feel for America having to suffer this moron for the next four years!

Ciao!

Ahmedb #91

Once again, Sir, you show us what clarity of thought, maturity of mind, and largeness of heart can be.

It is a misfortune of India that you are not an Indian (not that you would want to be -- I don`t want anyone questioning your Pakistani credentials just because an Indian admires you so).

Feroz K#

I don`t know it is my love for your reasoning skills or for your exposition of Hypocrisy. Or your penetrating analysis.

If there is a difference between Eiffel Tower or Taj Mahal and Bamiyan Buddha, it is only a matter of degree. And in no way reflect the will of world community to preserve the WORLD HERITAGE which are being destroyed. It is a debate of Assisted suicide or painful prolonged death. You have shown the hypocrisy very well.

Also your analysis of International Relations regarding appeal to Taliban instead of Northern Alliance makes sense.

Any way, I learn a lot from your writings.

I pray that your marriage will have a positive effect on your interaction on Chowk.

In response to rsridhar (Reply #: 82)
Dear Friend:

``If he feels that too many crimes are committed on Muslims in India, then he can leave and go to an Islamic state.`` --Surendra Jain

You ask: “What is wrong with the above statement”?

My reply: Nobody has any right to tell another citizen of India, if so, to leave and go to any xyz place. An Indian, irrespective of his/her religion, is an Indian citizen. Doesn’t the Indian constitution ensure equal citizenship rights to “all” Indians? Please advise.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. I tend to agree with the rest of your post.

In response to amitg (Reply #86)
Dear Amit:

My support for zensufi’s position was general. I don’t support Taliban’s action for the destruction of statues and monuments. If they do, it would be sad. However, I don’t see much parallel between the Afghani and the Babri Masjid cases. We, however, can and must deplore both the destructions. I hope, this explanation would suffice.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad