Lets Destroy The Bamiyan Buddhas!

Re: Ferozek #58

``The question is why does the world not ask the Northern Alliance to save the Buddhas of Bamiyan?``

I would think that because the NA do not control the territory around Bamiyan, and that they are not the ones carrying out the `eradication` as you put it in the article. This sounds like the obvious, reasonable answer. Am I missing something?

re: Studebaker # 56

I am indeed appalled by the news that the haj tour operators provide the same tour for Rs 70,000 for which the Central Haj Committee chaired by Mr. Salamatullah, charges Rs 80,000 after receiving a subsidy of Rs. 19,640 per person.

Please read the following article about the way the Haj committee is constituted and operated.

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/nikhilpatwardhan/wisaths.html

It is high time India privatizes these tours and does away with religious subsidies altogether. The job of the government should only be to provide for law and order and not subsidies for religious travel. Especially when there are no proper checks and balances on the organizations getting such funding.

Many Hindu organizations that grew too big were taken over by the government in the past ostensibly to maintain transparency. In case such interventionist policies are not eliminated maybe these rules should be extended to minority institutions too. The Central Haj Committee would be a fine organization for a start. A proper audit of this organization and a review of its constitution would set a nice precedent for improving the conduct of many other NGOs receiving government funding.

Even if the government decides to discontinue intervention in Hindu organizations it would be a good idea to require all religious bodies receiving tax exempt status to be subject to regular audits.

And finally let me reiterate my demand for a massive expansion of the judiciary from the present colonial levels so that criminals are prosecuted and punished faster. Maybe some of the money saved from the elimination of subsidies can be used for this purpose. We need a judiciary with atleast ten times as many judges. It is time Indians as a nation paid more attention to matters affecting their daily lives.

Ashish

Godot #60,

yes the wall street journal is a much much better newspaper than the NY Times.

Saxena`s not feeling well these days, so don`t worry about him.

Re: Feroze 58

Feroze, The sanctions against the Taliban are in reality sanctions against Pakistan and are a cynical act of sabotage by the previous American adminstration against the present American Administration.

Most all events effecting developing nations are a reflection of the ideological battles, especially in the States.

You will notice that the sanctions were designed and secured through the security council in record time, while simultaneously, Pakistan had asked for a dialogue between the Taliban and the States.

Unless the Taliban secure Ahmad Shah Masood, the santions regime will continue. Daily small but significant numbers of NA commanders and soldiers defect to the Taliban. The Tactical situation on the ground is not a major problem, the continued leadership of Mullah Omar is however; a source of concern. Evolutiuon of the movement is a strategic necessity.

Osama Bin Ladin has already travelled outside Afghanistan on two seperate occassions. A base outside Afghanistan is under preparation.

You will notice, the present American administration has been restrained, it`s humanitarian response encouraging.

The Leadership council of the Taliban look for strategic success, Mullah Omar is under pressure to deliver.

In response to zensufi (Reply # 66)
Dear Mariam (?):

Welcome back! I agree with your position.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Re: Reply #: 59 rafay_alam

P.G. Wodehouse or whomever said the quote you quoted, ``The Criminal mind does not appreciate art`` - does not make sense. Art is different things to different people, it can be pretty or ugly, depends on one`s perception and taste.

I do not agree with anything the Taliban do, and I wish they would appreciate the ancient Buddhist art they set to destroy, but I do not label them criminal or un-artistic for their actions.

-zensufi-

Very good questions.
sb #57
`` A request: I would be interested to know of any events of political activism that do not include religion in the Muslim world, even refs to writings by the Muslim elite would be appreciated. ``
Wolpert in his book on Jinnah seems to imply that there cannot be. Maybe the preconception is so strong among thinkers and movers that noone has tried hard enough.

anamika #61
``Whatever happened to the responsiblity of X? ``

Very true.Why is the rest of the world is held up to their own defined standard of human rights by some countries who observe no such standards themselves?

In Afghanistan`s case, apparently at one time, there were the Iran-funded groups, there were the Saudi-funded groups there were the US-funded groups and there were the Soviet-funded groups. No doubt there were other players, too. Its hard to figure who should take responsibility.

I guess a proud people who no outside force could comprehensively defeat in preceding centuries was finally defeated by arming each against the other. The Taliban`s unyielding philosophy has only worsened what was already a very bad situation, I`m guessing.

Sadhana

Ms. Versey # 52

You left me speechless with your post# 52. May I ask why my head was squished when I expressed the same concerns at your Symbols board?

The taliban snookings it nose to civilisation is nothing new - its treatement of women etc - now this act is just another assualt upon civilisation (be it the eastern (islamic, buddhist, hindu) kind or the western judeo-christian kind. It doesnot matter. People like F. R. Khan are just plain blind in that their apologia for the Taliban is silly and rooted in a case to to spite my world I cut my nose variety.

For this virulent form of a illness the only solution is to get rid of it. But then the we know better we are after all the progenators of the virus called taliban - a bane on Islam.

Check out

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/20010312/edit.shtml#ba

....sorry bro...you are down by 6, 27 seconds left in the fourth, on your own 37,with all downs left...and you go for a hail mary...and on the sidleines I can see the grin on your face...I protest!

#43 FerozK

I have heard the argument along these lines a few times here: country X is desperate and acts (or may act) irresponsibly and the way to deal with it is to give into X`s tantrums. Ras Siddiqui has argued this in the context of the mullah takeover of Pak politics and why India should be the one making concessions. Whatever happened to the responsiblity of X?

I do agree that the world community, especially the UN at the urging of the US, but just about everyone else as well, has abandoned Afghanis. More criminal is the conduct of the Taliban, their attitude towards their own people and their war craziness. I don`t believe they care a whit about the famine or common Afghanis. If they did, they`d cut down their tantrums and not act as if the world owes them (the talibans) something. I believe though that their only goal is to install a pure Islamic State, even is all that state is left with is barren land, broken idols and no people other than them. In a way the Afghanis are being held hostage by the Taliban. One way to break them free is for Pak and Saudia to derecognize the Taliban which would essentially doom them.

Re: scout, #34

I agree with you. New York Times is blatantly and shamelessly biased. That newspaper is a disgrace to journalism.

Re: RSaxena, #51

``Everyone in the world is biased and out to get Pakistan and Islam. The New York Times, CNN, BBC, Associated Press...you name it.``

Not everyone in the world, and not against Islam, but definitely against Pakistan. Yes, the New York Times, Time, Newsweek, the Financial Times, the Economist and BBC for sure (I don`t watch CNN). But not the Wall Street Journal. WSJ may be the best newspaper in the world.

``It`s probably a Jewish-Hindu conspiracy``

Sometimes it certainly appears that way.

Hey, F.R.,

Simple question: Should the Taliban be allowed to destroy these statues? I don`t think a long article need answer that.

Here`s a quote a came across recently (I think it`s P.G. Wodehouse, of all people): ``The Criminal mind does not appreciate art.``

I amuse myself trying to think of any art theft in Pakistan. There is none (barring allegations that the director of one of our art centers had a Sadequain removed from the gallery to his home - but that just fills me with some measure of appreciation for the criminal).

Rafay

Re: Farzana V

Yes; F R Khan and Ferozk is the same person.

Re: Jay

Thank you for your kind support! :) lol


Farzana, my problem with this whole issue is that I think, anyone correct me if I am wrong, that the international opinion/perception is askewed in this matter. The international community gives de jure status and legitimacy to the Northern Alliance as the rightful representive of the Afghan people. The Northern Alliance politcally controls about, lets say 5-15, percent of Afghanistan.

The Taliban who control about the remaining 85-95 percent of Afghanistan are the defacto rulers, because even though they lack international support, they are politically and territorially in control of Afghanistan. The international community has sought to isolate the Taliban and in doing they have narrowed their own channels of communications with the militia.

Could anyone on this board please give me one valid reason why the Taliban should listen to the world`s opinion in this matter?

I do not agree with the Taliban period.

Still I think that the United States and world, in a typical knee jerk response, in isolating the Taliban did so from purely an emotional reason and not from any hard realpolitik sense. International relations demands a modus vivendi, if it serves any interests, even with the satan and in this case, I think that the world has really misjudged its policy towards Afghanistan.

The question is why does the world not ask the Northern Alliance to save the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Why is it demanding from the Taliban that it act on this issue to appease the international opinion?

In an ironic sense, the world asking and pleading with the Taliban to re-consider their intentions on this issue has reversed itself by directly engaging the Taliban in talks - something that it had avowed never to do! If it is asking the Taliban to stop and reconsider their ``fatwa``, is it in fact, in toto, suggesting that it considers the Taliban as the as the ``rightful`` government of Afghanistan?

Or has it finally realized the difference between its policies of international idealism and the realities of the power structure in Afghanistan?

If there is anyone on this board, who can answer these questions, I would love to hear from you! I think that there is a bigger game afoot in this matter, which would be interesting to debate, but on the other hand, I guess, slings and arrows of a personal nature are more amusing!

Ciao!

Ferozk #43:

``The destruction of the Bamiyan statutes by the Taliban is a purely political act in sheer dispair at their failure to be given a de jure status by the world.``

I am sure the world community would give a de jure status to the Taliban now.

A request: I would be interested to know of any events of political activism that do not include religion in the Muslim world, even refs to writings by the Muslim elite would be appreciated.

Despite Iraq`s starving children, the stupid Saddam (who has not a little sympathy from some kafirs I know from my country) the churches and the Gurudwara there are left untouched. What Mr Hussain needs is a Pakistani political/IR adviser to make the world bend over.

May God save Pakistan, sorry, Islam,...like the Buddhas, the Babri Masjid and the Ram and other temples destroyed before.

PS: Buddhists are no idol worshippers, except that they follow the native kafir tradition of attaching reverence to the Buddha statues. Sculpture making must be the only major art form(leaving aside dance and music and scores of festival rituals/ celebrations) that they adopted from the Hindus and spread across South-East Asia and up North.

``I think that the international community has pushed the Taliban so far beyond the pale of a compromise, that this act is nothing more than a desperate act of a drowning man clutching at straws.``

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