Lets Destroy The Bamiyan Buddhas!

in response to # 77

Asfand #75 ``What they are doing in their country is OK. We can not pass judgement that what they are doing is wrong just because we think that they are wrong.``

The Taliban forced their way to power, and have shown no indication that they need to be elected. 4 million Afghans have voted with their feet and left the country - there are 50,000 in Hamburg alone, I was told today by a man who used to live in that city. Hundreds of children died of cold and starvation. Even as the Taliban are making waves destroying statues, thousands of Afghans are dying of starvation and cold in the North. The Taliban may seem crazy, but they are crazy like a fox: easy to divert everyone`s attention from the mess the have made by showing off their ``Islamic fervor`` (actually it is satanic, nothing to do with Islam, what they are doing). The foggy sense of morality of many well-off people in Pakistan (and your post and FR KHans article are good examples) is the reason why countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan (and India too) continue to be insensitive to the worst kind of injustices (helpless and innocent women languishing in jails, the rich fleecing the country, and so on) while remaining to slights to their precious pride due to articles in Western newspapers. The US is not perfect by any means, but imperfections are freely debated and reported and actually fixed here. In Pakistan and other such countries, the tendancy is to hide imperfections and to ridicule anyone who brings them out or to question their motives.

firstslip #88

Tauba tauba!!

Boy, are you really a Pakistani? Are you a Hindu from Pakistan?!

If you are, I am happy for Pakistan. I have used the unfortunate fact that there are no Hindu Pakistanis anywhere here as a stick to beat up on Pakistan. I will take that ilzaam back.

You have noted something that I think is at the core of Hinduism - something that has kept me a Hindu despite much bitterness I have sometimes felt toward the actually existing larger Hindu society.

Hinduism in essence is not about a person, God, gods, or book. It is an expanded state of mind available to any human being who is willing to rise above his or her narrow vision of circumscribed humanity. Anyone who sees humanity as humanity rather than an irreconcilable mass of sinners and saints is at heart a Hindu, no matter which god, God, or Prophet they turn to.

No one knows better than me that in practice that ideal is never achieved. But at least that is the ideal of modern Hinduism. And it is a better ideal than would have been available to me any where else.

In response to amitg (Reply #86)
Dear Amit:

My support for zensufi’s position was general. I don’t support Taliban’s action for the destruction of statues and monuments. If they do, it would be sad. However, I don’t see much parallel between the Afghani and the Babri Masjid cases. We, however, can and must deplore both the destructions. I hope, this explanation would suffice.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to rsridhar (Reply #: 82)
Dear Friend:

``If he feels that too many crimes are committed on Muslims in India, then he can leave and go to an Islamic state.`` --Surendra Jain

You ask: “What is wrong with the above statement”?

My reply: Nobody has any right to tell another citizen of India, if so, to leave and go to any xyz place. An Indian, irrespective of his/her religion, is an Indian citizen. Doesn’t the Indian constitution ensure equal citizenship rights to “all” Indians? Please advise.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. I tend to agree with the rest of your post.

Feroz K#

I don`t know it is my love for your reasoning skills or for your exposition of Hypocrisy. Or your penetrating analysis.

If there is a difference between Eiffel Tower or Taj Mahal and Bamiyan Buddha, it is only a matter of degree. And in no way reflect the will of world community to preserve the WORLD HERITAGE which are being destroyed. It is a debate of Assisted suicide or painful prolonged death. You have shown the hypocrisy very well.

Also your analysis of International Relations regarding appeal to Taliban instead of Northern Alliance makes sense.

Any way, I learn a lot from your writings.

I pray that your marriage will have a positive effect on your interaction on Chowk.

Ahmedb #91

Once again, Sir, you show us what clarity of thought, maturity of mind, and largeness of heart can be.

It is a misfortune of India that you are not an Indian (not that you would want to be -- I don`t want anyone questioning your Pakistani credentials just because an Indian admires you so).

Re: All

I will post detailed replies to most interacts later.

Re: Sigalph235

Yaar, as a fellow GOPer, I have to disagree with you!

I think that George W. Bush is a certified idiot! I think that most GOPers have been so long in the political wilderness that they are just glad to back at 1600 Penn Ave. GOP should not blindly follow GW and should show a little spine and for once show some indivduality.

I am proud of being a republican, but I do not think that GW was the best choice for a republican president.

George should thank Renquist for giving him the elections of 2000 on a judical platter.

Yaar, try not to place too much faith in the Powell-Chenney-Rice-Rumsfield foreign policy dream team. GW would not know the difference from Iraq or A Rag if his poll ratings depended on it! There will be plenty of turf battles ahead as all these egos try to carve a power niche in the Bush administration.

Lets admit the truth...big business paid for Bush`s election and corporate America is making huge returns...after all their errand boy is the president of the United States.

All the GOPers were salivating when USS Ronald Reagan, a four billion dollar aircraft carrier, was recently commissioned in Newport. Even though it galls me to admit this, but I think that Clinton`s style of economic diplomacy was more effective than Bush`s Teddy Rooseveltian ``carry a big stick`` based foreign policy.

I guess it is the Almighty`s way of punishing the GOPers for their greed that He has given us Bush, but seriously, yaar, America does not deserve this idiot and I feel for America having to suffer this moron for the next four years!

Ciao!

EKlavya#93

You are mistaken.

Only Pakistan can produce Qazi Hussain and BAhmed both.

India is producing only one mould these days.

But I appreciate your wishes.

Bilal #91

India has completely accepted the Two Nation Theory, any pakistani hindu can come and live in india permanently if he surrenders the passport and does not live in any of the border areas. In the last five years, if my memory of India Today article is correct, nearly one thousand pakistanis have immigrated to india. On the contrary, since 1960, pakistan has closed the doors for indian muslims.

regards

jay

A quote from a news article in Busines online

http://www.hindubusinessline.com/stories/040855af.htm

``In the six years of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, the

Taliban is far, far away from establishing what they claimed

was on their agenda -- an Islamic Utopia. For an Islamic

Utopian state certainly does not envisage a society where

there is strife and violence; where women are treated worse

than chattel, where girls are pulled out of schools and

colleges and women from offices; ``

and yet there are people who write long apologias for the taliban - where were these people when the world asked the taliban to stop their infernal treatment of their people in the name of Islam - these apologist were no where to be seen. They had disappeared in the wood work of Talibanistic Islam and not true Islam.

hamidm #59: ``... now that we have all vented - i would like to try a different tact to see if we can tame these mad mullahs :``

I think thats exactly the stance the author is proposing the world would take because of the Buddha destruction (come to think of it, I aint surprised). Kafirspeak - the world after registering the protest will simply continue the status quo.

Ferozk #58:

``The international community has sought to isolate the Taliban and in doing they have narrowed their own channels of communications with the militia.

Could anyone on this board please give me one valid reason why the Taliban should listen to the world`s opinion in this matter? ``

They needn`t if they dont care about the communication with the intl community.

``International relations demands a modus vivendi, if it serves any interests, even with the satan and in this case, I think that the world has really misjudged its policy towards Afghanistan.``

Probably. I am wondering about Iraq, Libya, the Communist countries of yesteryears, some of which have opposed the west for the sake idealogy (even wrote off the debts by previous govts - Pakistan would do well to emulate this, the world has singled out the Islamic countries and heritage to be unfair). May be the Taleban were politically motivated after all and not religiously in breaking the statues.



``The question is why does the world not ask the Northern Alliance to save the Buddhas of Bamiyan? ``

My guess is that its the Taleban thats destrying the statues not the NA and NA though recognized by the world doesnt have a say in what Taleban does.

`` If it is asking the Taliban to stop and reconsider their ``fatwa``, is it in fact, in toto, suggesting that it considers the Taliban as the as the ``rightful`` government of Afghanistan? ``

Thats one way of looking at it, yes. Though I dont think that the world considers it anymore than talking with a kidnapper than the police of the area about the kidnapped.

Question - is the intl community going to change its modus vivendi wrt Taleban now?

Re: Feroze

``I guess it is the Almighty`s way of punishing the GOPers for their greed that He has given us Bush, but seriously, yaar, America does not deserve this idiot and I feel for America having to suffer this moron for the next four years!``

I`ll take Bill Clinton the sleazebag and Rhodes scholar over this bumbling idiot any day. In a time of crisis, I don`t care if Billy is watching a porno but making the right decisions...I`ll take that over Bush sitting there with his bible and panicking.

Re Firstslip #88

Hinduism is a religion and a culture. It provides a binding organization to Indian society through a division of labor via the caste system. It also provides a ethical amd moral core, complete with a system of rituals for the individual to conceptualize a meaning for their individual existence, of society and how an individual fits into that society.

If one is Hindu in Kaniya Kumari or in Kashmir, how are they different other than in a geographic or ethnic sense?

``...In the real sense of Hinduism I can be a Hindu by being Muslim...`` How? can you please explain?

firstslip #88 ``Even in the real sense of Hinduism I can very well be Hindu by being Muslim as Hinduism isn`t a relegion like Islam, Judaism and Chirstanity are its a way of living integrated into the culture of sub-contenet.``

Are these the kind of profound thoughts you guys at first slip think about, while everyone thinks you are keeping your eye on the ball? Love your spelling, too.

krashid #95

I do not begrudge Pakistan any of her moderate, intelligent, rational people. In India we can never have too many of them. We face big challenges, as you can see from the following:

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Allahabad+residents+oppose+change+in+city%27s+name%0D&id=10838

What good will come of renaming Allahabad, I do not know. Right now, Prayag is one part of Allahabad, the place where three rivers Ganga, Yamuna, and Saraswati are supposed to meet - one of the holiest sites for Hindus.

These are the kinds of things that understandably frighten people like Studebaker. On the other hand, there are Hindus who feel offended that some of their holiest places have non-Hindu names. How can we arrive at some sort of mutually acceptable accommodation? We need moderates on every side, the more the better.