Lets Destroy The Bamiyan Buddhas!

Saima-doll

I suppose you are our new Mrs. Ferozk. Is that right?

Ferozk:
wink wink.
(in sickness and in health eh?)

Dear Feroz:

Welcome back! A consciouness raising article, and a penetrating critique of the so-called international/global community (as well as the so-called Muslim/Islamic community).

In conclusion, you wrote: ``Let us hope for the sake of Islam that we destroy the Taliban before they destroy Islam in their misguided vision of what constitutes as the true devotion to, and implementation of, Islam.`` This is really perplexing. How is this linked with the main thrust of your article?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Re: bahmad #4

Bilal, the underlying theme is hypocricy. Can you honestly tell me that the Taliban are honest in their interpretations of Islam?

Is there one actor (country/organization) in this sordid drama, which is true in its intentions?

Why does the world think that after abusing the Talibans and isolating them, they will care what it thinks?

There is a time tested principle in international relations called reciprocity. Why should the Taliban reciprocate the international community?

Ciao!

As pointed out by one academic, the Taliban jihad against idolatory may be a prelude to an attack on Sufi and Shia tombs and monuments.

This may echo the 1802-1805 Wahhabi destruction of such in Karbala, Mecca and Medina.

Perhaps y`all will sing in a different tune then.

-Arun the Infidelator

for a moment I thought here was a fantastic apologia for the cultural wasteland of Afghanistan

and the actions of fascist taliban...and then in the articles ends in a fantastic flourish - maybe the author of the article was sure what he wanted to say and said his piece. And then on reviewing his authorship he decided that the article read like an apologia for the taliban and the so-called `islamist` action taken by them....and changed his mind to become a grovelling apologist for the west and its cultural influences (he derides in a the most fanstastic manner) by suggesting that that the taliban should be allowed to do what they want in order to save Islam.

Where was the author when (to use his words)

`` when the Taliban were destroying the raison d’ etre of Islam by their medieval acts of intolerance and malpractice? `` and then surprises us all with a statement

`` deal with the menace of the Taliban, because today the issue is the statutes of Bamyian and tomorrow it well could be the honor and dignity of Islam, as a religion, itself! ``

The wonder of wonders is that the authors thinks that the taliban havenot as yet insulted Islam! If that is not an aplogia for the taliban in light of the previous quote and his article what else is...

Would the real Mr. Khan please stand up.

Dear F.R.Khan:

You are spot on, and damn the damnation that will come your way. The West has been hugely responsible for giving Islam this dour face, and the greatest slap to it has been the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is naturally worried sick. So, it hits back with the ‘civilized’ intellectual version of the Crusades.

And the irony, bloody hell, is that Osama Bin Laden was once a favourite toy boy of the Brits. He was Harry, of the tony English pubs, impeccably dressed in sharp suits, a great raconteur in a subtle fashion, and generous to a fault, and it had to do with more than being rich. So, what happened? He grew a beard, found a cause, and he was exiled from their minds, a ‘pariah’. (Look, who’s talking!) Is he merely flirting with an ideology? Would he then have taken the risk of leaving it all to live in a cave?

I have not been able to understand the different standards we have for rebels. Will we ever know how and why a former terrorist, Nelson Mandela, got legitimized? Was it the 27-year incarceration that did it? Is Subhas Chandra Bose today acceptable merely because he was exiled from the very heart of the revolution when he went underground during India’s freedom struggle? Why has there been no worldwide outcry against Jagjit Singh Chahan, who was drawing a map of Khalistan, sitting in London, where a band of devoted followers continue to nurture him?

Bin Laden has been truly a rootless person and his transformation has been dramatic and more. Unlike the Shah of Iran or Idi Amin who sponged on their own people and had to escape, he sought to leave it all. I think together with your argument “that (Iraq, Afghanistan) dared to thumb their noses”, at the West, the latter cannot accept the fact that most Islamic movements are surviving and thriving without visible leaders. While for them one Billy’s willy can bring everything to a head, the much-maligned jehad, on the other hand, can go on and on, simply because it means ‘to strive’.

And one point: The Bamiyan statues are located in a place where there is no Buddhist population, therefore those who have compared its destruction with that of the Babri Masjid are committing a grave error. Worse, some have even gone into nitpicking about whether there was a masjid there and whether it was open at all…going by that yardstick, I wonder if anyone even looked at those Buddha statues, least of all the Japanese with their little Nikons. Besides, Buddhism does not believe in god or idol worship. So, there.

However, I think you too, Mr. Khan, have decided to cop out. First you say, “Who

gives the world and its self declared knight in tainted armor, the United Nations, the right to point an accusatory finger at the Taliban? Can the west, the defenders of world’s heritage, honestly be the first one without any sin to cast the first stones of moral ire against the Taliban?” and then you end with a tame, “Let us hope for the sake of Islam that we destroy the Taliban before they destroy Islam in their misguided vision of what constitutes as the true devotion to, and implementation of, Islam.” What happened?

The Taliban has as much of a right to exist, as did the old Indian National Congress or the Muslim League or the Jana Sangha or the Mukti Bahini, and Bin Laden has as much of a right to be what he is as does Aung San Suu Ki, Ariel Sharon, Yasser Arafat, V. Prabhakaran, and a host of others. Some get the Nobel Peace Prize, others do not. Some may be right, others wrong. That is for the future to decide. And the future is never visible. So, how can we wear rose-tinted glasses to view it?

You say, “Oscar Wilde once wrote that you destroy the thing you love and that which you love, will destroy you in the end.”

The Quran says, ``Prescribed for you is fighting, though it be hateful to you. Yet it may happen that you will hate a thing which is better for you; and it may happen that you

love a thing which is worse for you. God knows and you know not.`` [K., 2:216]

Interesting juxtaposition!

Regards,

Farzana

Dear F.R.Khan:

You are spot on, and damn the damnation that will come your way. The West has been hugely responsible for giving Islam this dour face, and the greatest slap to it has been the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is naturally worried sick. So, it hits back with the ‘civilized’ intellectual version of the Crusades.

And the irony, bloody hell, is that Osama Bin Laden was once a favourite toy boy of the Brits. He was Harry, of the tony English pubs, impeccably dressed in sharp suits, a great raconteur in a subtle fashion, and generous to a fault, and it had to do with more than being rich. So, what happened? He grew a beard, found a cause, and he was exiled from their minds, a ‘pariah’. (Look, who’s talking!) Is he merely flirting with an ideology? Would he then have taken the risk of leaving it all to live in a cave?

I have not been able to understand the different standards we have for rebels. Will we ever know how and why a former terrorist, Nelson Mandela, got legitimized? Was it the 27-year incarceration that did it? Is Subhas Chandra Bose today acceptable merely because he was exiled from the very heart of the revolution when he went underground during India’s freedom struggle? Why has there been no worldwide outcry against Jagjit Singh Chahan, who was drawing a map of Khalistan, sitting in London, where a band of devoted followers continue to nurture him?

Bin Laden has been truly a rootless person and his transformation has been dramatic and more. Unlike the Shah of Iran or Idi Amin who sponged on their own people and had to escape, he sought to leave it all. I think together with your argument “that (Iraq, Afghanistan) dared to thumb their noses”, at the West, the latter cannot accept the fact that most Islamic movements are surviving and thriving without visible leaders. While for them one Billy’s willy can bring everything to a head, the much-maligned jehad, on the other hand, can go on and on, simply because it means ‘to strive’.

And one point: The Bamiyan statues are located in a place where there is no Buddhist population, therefore those who have compared its destruction with that of the Babri Masjid are committing a grave error. Worse, some have even gone into nitpicking about whether there was a masjid there and whether it was open at all…going by that yardstick, I wonder if anyone even looked at those Buddha statues, least of all the Japanese with their little Nikons. Besides, Buddhism does not believe in god or idol worship. So, there.

However, I think you too, Mr. Khan, have decided to cop out. First you say, “Who

gives the world and its self declared knight in tainted armor, the United Nations, the right to point an accusatory finger at the Taliban? Can the west, the defenders of world’s heritage, honestly be the first one without any sin to cast the first stones of moral ire against the Taliban?” and then you end with a tame, “Let us hope for the sake of Islam that we destroy the Taliban before they destroy Islam in their misguided vision of what constitutes as the true devotion to, and implementation of, Islam.” What happened?

The Taliban has as much of a right to exist, as did the old Indian National Congress or the Muslim League or the Jana Sangha or the Mukti Bahini, and Bin Laden has as much of a right to be what he is as does Aung San Suu Ki, Ariel Sharon, Yasser Arafat, V. Prabhakaran, and a host of others. Some get the Nobel Peace Prize, others do not. Some may be right, others wrong. That is for the future to decide. And the future is never visible. So, how can we wear rose-tinted glasses to view it?

You say, “Oscar Wilde once wrote that you destroy the thing you love and that which you love, will destroy you in the end.”

The Quran says, ``Prescribed for you is fighting, though it be hateful to you. Yet it may happen that you will hate a thing which is better for you; and it may happen that you

love a thing which is worse for you. God knows and you know not.`` [K., 2:216]

Interesting juxtaposition!

Regards,

Farzana

I feel like a bombarded Buddha after reading this. It is difficult to figure out what the author is arguing for and what against.

Are the Taliban victumes of abuse being pushed to the wall, or are they a menace? Are the Taliban to be congratulated for paying the West back in their own coin or should they be destroyed? What has Japanese cartoons or wonder-bras got to do with religious vandalism?

Is the author arguing that the Taliban action is justified since the Japanese print dirty cartoons, Saudi princesses wear wonder-bra, Paris has Macdonalds and the air is polluted in Agra?

The author argues all through how each nation has its own skeletons to hide and therefore should keep off lecturing the Taliban. Suddenly at the end he executes a neat somersault and castigates all and sundry for not waking up to the threat posed by the Taliban.

Help!

There is no doubt in my mind that Taliban truly believe in what they are doing. The problem is with what they think Islam is!!

An excellent article, Feroz!

Your rage, and the truth you speak, makes it very powerful. Good job!

You`re right. The world doesn`t give a horse`s behind for little children dying of hunger and cold in Afghanistan, but is in great pains over a few meaningless statues.

I`m sure the Buddha, undoubtly one of the greatest men ever to have lived in this world, will agree with you. He must be turning in his grave over the plight of the Afghans, particularly the little children, and not over the destruction of some lifeless stones.

I`m, like you, equally horrified at the Taleban act, and the world`s hypocracy over it.

Enjoyed your article very much.

The underlying theme of the article is ``Blame everyone else``, ``Be a victim``.

Re: Taj Mahal, UNESCO and foreign sources are helping Indian authorities preserve the monument.

e.g.,

http://www.rhone-poulenc.com/bodyu/prms0044.htm#Programme de sauvegarde

http://unescodelhi.nic.in/vsunescodelhi/cul.htm

-Arun the Infidelator

You may like to see :

http://www.heritage.org/library/backgrounder/bg1383es.html

which suggests what US policy towards the Taliban should be.

``The Taliban`s revolutionary ardor and rural roots made them ``an Afghan version of the Khmer Rouge.``

xxx

FRKhan`s iconoclasm and skepticism and deep seated insecurity is a symptom of the ``hate-all that is unislamic`` syndrome/mindset which is the first step towards plunging into nihilistic savagery.

Is the west hypocritical? Who isn`t? What has the west`s hypocrisy (or lack thereof) got to do with the correctness (or incorrectness) of the Taliban`s decision to remove all vestiges of its pre-islamic past?

Mr. Khan mentions that he does not support what the Taliban`s version of Islam is all about, but still he goes all out to applaud the decision to demolish the buddhas - simply because it is a slap in the face of the west/india/OIC - parties regarded by Mr. Khan as equally bad/worse than the taliban.

Are the Bamiyan Buddhas more important than Afghan lives? Tough one. Just as tough as - comparing apples with oranges! Or trying to figure out whether conventional weapons are more important than nuclear weapons!

Lives, Mr. Khan, are precious. So are the Bamiyan Buddhas - because it provides Afghans with a sense of who they are as a people. These Buddhas do not represent an ongoing form of idolatry and must not be regarded as an affront to islam. It represents the skill, sophistication, philosophy, spirituality of the ancestors of present day Afghans. So once you take this away the Afghans lose a part of their own soul!

And why are you even being so nebulous in your argument to delve into the dark psychology of the marine in Okinawa - of what pertinence is it to the issue at hand?

But one important aspect of the controversies you have not touched upon - are the feelings of the worldwide Buddhist community. Any thoughts for the people of Thailand, SriLanka, Japan, Taiwan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Nepal, China, India - or do you suppose official reactions from all these countries were all a part of some larger conspiracy orchestrated by the malicious `west`?

dear feroze:

Your literary skills are admirable. Unfortunately your reasoning skills haven`t kept pace. Here are some of your pet peeves.

1)Serbians destroyed a bridge and nobody protested. My dear man there was a war going on in that area. Who gives a flying f... about artefacts of historical significance? And if I remember correctly eventually international troops were sent into that area in order to stop the genocide. Are there any competing parties to the Bamiyan Buddhas? I don`t think so.

2)You`ve used Iraq and Sarajevo as other examples. Once again you are drawing the wrong analogies. Eh....rules of business are generally suspended at the time of war.

3)You show indignation at France for turning a blind eye to its increasing commercialization. I`d say its about time one got some real food in the city of romance and carnal love. If the French have finally figured out the cost of their fake individuality, why blame them? I don`t see you wearing your chudhi-dar-pajama and khussas to work do I?

4)The argument about the world hypcocricy in the face of the drought in Afghanistan has frequently been cited. May I dare ask whose primary responsibility is it to worry about such concerns? Let me guess. The local government..... But maybe the one-eyed king thinks a mortar and armor tatoo show on the statues will alllow the parched masses to forget about their thirst and at least they`ll be spiritually quenched when they meet their maker.

5)As for the hypocritical baniya. Well what else can you expect? They need to have some fun too. And saving the Taj Mahal?? Don`t you know its a security hazard. The PAF pilots used it as a homing beacon in the 1965 and 1971 wars. The baniyas had to cover it with drapes eventually to stop the infernal Muslas from bombing the neighbouring towns.

Methinks feroze sahib, this is a storm in a rather staid teacup. Time to chill out with some stronger stuff perhaps :) I`ll gladly buy the first round.



later

-sac

Neurogen,

AM I answerable to you .... I am not going to give you any answer... enough is enough of this bulshit... I didnt know they let your kind on CHowk.

Yasser Hamdani

Neurogen,

AM I answerable to you .... I am not going to give you any answer... enough is enough of this bulshit... I didnt know they let your kind on CHowk.

Yasser Hamdani

Hello Mr. F. Khan,

Your argument is ‘the condemnation by the western countries’ is unjustified. You don’t care to justify the destruction of artefacts and relics by Teleban on their own merits of human values. For a moment let’s forget about the western countries. The statues of Bamiyan may not have religious value to the Teleban. They may just be stones. But they have immense human values. It’s their history and our history. A civilized person would respect his heritage no matter how he disagrees with his ancestors. It would be hard to think in human terms for the ones who’s minds are poisoned by religious fanaticism and the brains are replaced by edicts.



You go on rambling why didn’t the western condemn so called ‘similar events’ that happened elsewhere. All you examples are pathetic. You scavenged for these examples to attack the western countries. Many countries you quoted were on a war-foot. No one ever supported the Serbians on their destructions. NATO attacked the Serbians to bring them in line. No one supported the communists Russians or the Germans during World-War II. You example of Taj is nauseating.

The western countries did a lot of mistakes. They killed six million Jews in concentrations camps. If any similar event happens elsewhere, are you saying they should not speak up and condemn. Their voice is clear. Please don’t do the mistakes that we did. We humans have improved a lot and evolved between the beginning and the end of the 20th century. You are stuck in the 7nth century and do not want to evolve with the rest of the human species and even want to regress from what you evolved.

At the end of your article you have inserted a sentence “Let us hope for the sake of Islam that we destroy the Taliban before they destroy Islam in their misguided vision of what constitutes as the true devotion to, and implementation of, Islam” which has no relevance to the rest of the article. You are a slimy character and you too want to distance from Teleban because deep down in your heart you know Telebans you support are inhumans.

What a pathetic article! What kind of perverted people are living in this 21st century!

Perhaps all the countries, US, Japan, France, etc being berated here have MORE than 1/4th of their population outside their national boundaries with Afghan aid agencies tending to them. Thats why the Taliban is able to `hoist them on their own moral petard`.

If bits of stone are not worth all the fuss and bother, going to such lengths to defend the Taliban (by bringing up the assault on a Japanese girl, for example) is just not worth the black face cloth of either of the two Afghan woman executed for prostitution.

I`m sure theses women fully deserved their death sentences and unlike the Japanese government`s policies leading to rapes of their young women, the Taliban`s policies had NOTHING to do with these prostitutes` death-deserving deeds.

Berating the world community is at best a futile activity for better-than-the-best armchair humanists who cannot bring themselves to be counted in the open even marching behind their own activists, much less getting equitable laws passed in their own countries.

Better direct all this hot air and pious indignation on Mullah Omar, it might actually a difference for suffering Afghans before he ascends to heaven.

sac #11
A simple google search on ``Supreme Court`` AND ``Taj Mahal`` and so many wussie baniyas pop up:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/earth/stories/s14365.htm
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/New/SouthAsia/itinerary/india/india2.html
http://www.goldmanprize.org/recipients/recipientProfile.cfm?recipientID=34
http://www.rediff.com/news/mar/14yanni1.htm


Sadhana

In response to Feroz (Reply # 5)
Dear Feroz:

I wonder if you have really answered my question. The theme of hypocrisy is indeed the lynchpin of your article.

Interpretations do indeed vary from person to person and from one group to another. I personally prefer to focus upon the universal message of Islam (my interpretation) and of other religions. This approach brings me closer to people of all existing faiths. Hence, in my personal view, the Talibans are uncritically making use of the teachings/practices of Islam/Muslims/etc. which may or may not be what the spirit of Islam really intends to establish.

We all know how the world works. You are right that the Talibans will not care about the so-called global community which, in my view, is essentially divided, hierarchical, and unfair. As a sovereign people, the Afghanis are not likely to reciprocate unless coerced. But, in my view, coercion fails to pave the way for the establishment of a just order.

Are we really heading toward a global community that is free, democratic, fair, humanistic, and peaceful? If not, then what do we need to do?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Hello Mr. F. Khan,

Your argument is ‘the condemnation by the western countries’ is unjustified. You don’t care to justify the destruction of artefacts and relics by Teleban on their own merits of human values. For a moment let’s forget about the western countries. The statues of Bamiyan may not have religious value to the Teleban. They may just be stones. But they have immense human values. It’s their history and our history. A civilized person would respect his heritage no matter how he disagrees with his ancestors. It would be hard to think in human terms for the ones who’s minds are poisoned by religious fanaticism and the brains are replaced by edicts.



You go on rambling why didn’t the western condemn so called ‘similar events’ that happened elsewhere. All you examples are pathetic. You scavenged for these examples to attack the western countries. Many countries you quoted were on a war-foot. No one ever supported the Serbians on their destructions. NATO attacked the Serbians to bring them in line. No one supported the communists Russians or the Germans during World-War II. You example of Taj is nauseating.

The western countries did a lot of mistakes. They killed six million Jews in concentrations camps. If any similar event happens elsewhere, are you saying they should not speak up and condemn. Their voice is clear. Please don’t do the mistakes that we did. We humans have improved a lot and evolved between the beginning and the end of the 20th century. You are stuck in the 7nth century and do not want to evolve with the rest of the human species and even want to regress from what you evolved.

At the end of your article you have inserted a sentence “Let us hope for the sake of Islam that we destroy the Taliban before they destroy Islam in their misguided vision of what constitutes as the true devotion to, and implementation of, Islam” which has no relevance to the rest of the article. You are a slimy character and you too want to distance from Teleban because deep down in your heart you know Telebans you support are inhumans.

What a pathetic article! What kind of perverted people are living in this 21st century!

Always love reading Mr. Khan`s articles. I do think there is a bit of a reach in some of the comparison he makes. Yet, there is something for everyone - Muslims, non-Muslims, westerners and easterners -- to think about.

My fear is that we will all take from this article what we want to and leave out what may be more important to correcting our peculiar blind spots.

But that is not the author`s burden.

Good job, Mr. Khan.

* * * * * * *

In a more lighthearted vein, only you could have written something that both Farzana Vershey and I can enjoy! You should come to India, throw the BJP and the Sahabuddins out, and become our prime minister :)

Oh wow, so you can register as Ram and post as me... I am impressed! No wonder people think Rutgers doesnot produce good scholars!

Chowk Staff,

Make a note of this. ``Ram`` a fundoo from Rutgers is posing as me!

Kindly put an end to this nonsense, because the flood that these people are going to unleash is unprecedented, and it will serve to bring down chowk.

Ferozk

Help me understand...

While the Taliban destroys the statues, should the World community just shut up and watch it? Is that what u are saying?

A simple `Yes` or `No` would suffice.

Thanks,

---SN

Not just the article, but so many of the responses are :

We are not responsible for our actions ! We are victims ! Two wrongs make a right !

Everything is relative ! The Taliban had 250 women flogged on a single day for violating their burqa rule. But they ought to have the same stature as Nelson Mandela.

Everything is absolute ! It is the West that is responsible for the dour face of Islam ! All that poor innocent boy Osama bin Laden did was to grow a beard.

My ignorance defines the world ! The Bamiyan Buddhas are worthless, nobody ever paid them attention ! The Archaelogical Survey of India spent several years and many rupees restoring these.

Since there are no Buddhists in Afghanistan, it is OK ! I suppose destroying the Babri Masjid would be OK if we first drove out all Muslims from India ? Or need it just be Ayodhya ? Or need it just be a 10-meter buffer around the masjid ?

Sorry folks, you are too far fallen even to be piteable.

-Arun the Infidelator

I would agree with one part of this article, and disagree with the other. It is true that in terms of destroying human lives (outside their own borders), and stealing national treasures, no one can come close to the acheivements of the, ``Western nations,`` in the past two centuries. More people in the world are killed by a bullet made in the USA than by any other piece of armament. And since WWII, the USA has used more weaponry and destroyed more people and buildings outside its own borders than any other country. And of course, their is colonisation and enslaving the millions of our, ``uncivilized`` forefathers. Unfortunately this is how is works, i.e. the most powerful countries always do the most damage. Because they can. So it is quite hypocritical of them to all of a sudden attempt to become the symbols of virtue, on this issue.

At the same time, this does not mean it is correct to destroy these statues, for two reasons: Destruction in general is bad, unless it is done to create something better. Destruction of items of religious significance to any group, by a govt., for any reason, is a sign of ultimate backwardness and bigotry, as well as a sick mind.

The West is wrong in its holier than thou attitude, and the Taliban are wrong in destroying the statues.

I have a question for all the people who point fingers at the hypocrisy of the world and say that they are equally or more horrified by starving Afghans than the Taliban destroying the Bamiyan Buddhas, why is the world speaking up only now.

I don`t recall seeing any of you speaking up about starving Afghans prior to the Taliban edict for destruction of the statues.

-Arun the Infidelator

I did not go through your entire rambling article since I had seen enough by the time I got to ``The international arguments of moral outrage against the Taliban’s actions and its cries of protest are nothing more than hollow meaningless self promoting expressions of political correctness foisted upon the world by a few self chosen champions and purveyors of western arrogance and neo-fascist cultural imperialism``

I think, sir, that you are a fool and I dont understand which school for the mentally retarded you went to before they decided that you were to screwed up to be capable of learning anything. Like the editor or the Frontier Times, I assume the chowk editor was flying close to the ceiling of his office with the help of a few chemicals when he let your article slide by.

amen!!

Excellent article. Could you send this to the editor at the New York Times. I`d like to see if that biased newspaper would publish such a mind opening article. I doubt it.

Re: Macgupta

You Sir, are a fine one to talk about ethics, and morality! Honestly, If i were you and belong to your miserable lot, I would shut the * * * * * up and sit and cry at my misfrotune, as oppsoed to trying to make some sort of conversations at the expense of being labelled as a stinking hypocrite.

Reda and weep, at your lot`s ignorance and at your theocracys having blinded people into such submissions as below.

Asim

Three children sacrificed at Hindu temple: 10 held

SRINAGAR-At least 10 people of a remote Indian village including a Hindu temple Sadhu have been arrested for masterminding the sacrifice of three children to appease the temple goddess and the illiterate father of the ill-fated children.

Bodies lying in pool of blood of Mukesh (6), his two sisters, Rani Lakshmi (3) and Rani Prem (2), were recovered from the outskirts of a temple in Jodhpur District in Rajasthan province Thursday night. All the three had been first strangulated and then stabbed by their father and the temple priest for bestowing richness upon them by the goddess of the temple.

The police said that a poverty-stricken Sohan Lal was lured by the temple priest that he should sacrifice all his children to the goddess of the temple known as ``Ram Deora Temple`` and turn into a rich man overnight.

An illiterate Sohan Lal took away the children from his wife on the plea that they would have a ``darshan`` of the goddess and be blessed. Fearing some mischief, Sohan Lal`s wife first resisted the suggestion saying that the youngest daughter who was only two years old did not need to be taken to a temple for any ``darshan`` because of her being an innocent infant.

Police further said that heads of all the three slain children were kept towards the direction of the temple so that the goddess of the temple was pleased. Ten people including the children`s father, the priest and some more people associated with the temple were taken into custody. A senior police officer also said that there might be some more murders having been committed by these temple people who occasionally drink blood of human beings. All the three slain children were having toys in their hands as they lay dead

Ylh,

Take a hold of yourself. I am also surprised to see those posts. The system has screwed up the messages. I posted only one message altogether. There are five in my name.

Pleas rein in your tongue. You do see the sign below the message signed by someone else, don`t you. I have noticed before in Chowk tha sometimes if you post simultaneiously it replaces one persons post with another person`s. Or it could totally be different kind of screw up. They are not MINE.

F.R.Khan.

Good work on bringing into light the western hypocrisy on the issue but the points emphasized in your article are too ambigous. It would have been better if you made them more clearer. I do agree that west uses every gesture from taliban be it friendly, naive or plainly defying to its baggering against Islam and its values.

The interpretation of Islam by Taliban has several inconsistancies and reflects their mindset in grip of a self proclaimed liberator syndrome. Their rigidity makes them prone to dogmatic thinking in every sphere and prevents realization of the damage they are bringing to a relatively rational spirit of Islam.

But the Taliban are not alone to be blamed. They were nurtured by their direct patrons in Pakistan Army and indirect patrons in the CIA. To me they are just naive people falling victims of the international power game after the end of cold war. The Pakistani establishment is playing with fire as they back the militia and we are beginning to see signs of fallout in form of mushroom growth of so called Jehadis and fanatics. It is high time for us to realize that we cannot become the chess masters of the region while all our policies are dictated by halls in pentagon.

The destruction of Historical heritage is a mindless act, regardless by whom or where. If only the suffering masses of Afghans could get such press. Ever wonder why they don`t? They`re not photogenic, no five star hotels in Kabul...

That the West and it`s new Johnny came lately ``natural allies`` foot soldiers are hypocrates is not news. That a Huntintonian element is exerting itself is not news. This element is strongest in the Western press and in the West is renown for it`s liberal secural bias. Those days may soon be over, there`s a new sheriff in town. We just may get some balance. But they`re not gonna go without a fight. They know and understand, the only force in their way is Islam. You can be sure that the burning of Qurans will not make it to the editorial pages of the International Herald Tribune, The New York Times, The Washington Post or The Guardian, The Economist, The Atlantic monthly, Dissent, Challenge or Al-Ahram for that matter. This will all be coincidence, after all, they can`t be on top of everything can they? Plus, who gives a rats behind?

Make no mistake, Liberal secularist are a religion, their diety is Stateism, their creed is domination of all global systems. Their prayer is ``God is dead in the West and we will kill him in the rest of the world``. They are as closed minded and bigoted a bunch as the Present Taliban.

Be assured, the world in not as blind as it may sometimes seem, and remember ``you can`t fool all the people, all the time``.

God lives, God rules!(not necessarily political systems - But most definitely, the hearts and minds of men and women)

FRKhan - liked your write-up, but what do you mean by hoping for the sake of Islam we destroy the Taliban before they destroy Islam??? From the rest of your article, I figured you agree that the Taliban have already given Islam a bad name. On one side I hear you say the West is over-reacting, and on the other side, you think the Taliban are at fault. I might be wrong and perhaps the article was just too long for me, so lost it`s purpose with me. It`s me not you.

-zensufi-

I do not claim to know the face of Real Islam
but these guys (The Taliban) are on a mission
of some sort and along with their ``honored
guest``, are busy trying to please their creators
by making Islam look bad.
A pox on all their sponsors!

Ras

Actually, Hindus and Afghans used to get along quite well, in pre-Taliban days, and get along, but except for the Taliban. Has something to do with the Afghan character and them being secure in their identity compared to Pakistanis.

http://afghanhindu.freeservers.com/

-Arun the Infidelator

Asim Hayat,

At least murder is against the law in India. Which is more than I can say about some other places ...

Incidentally, your story`s byline was from Srinagar. In which remote village in Kashmir did this happen, I`m curious. Or is this more jihadi nonsense ?

-Arun the Infidelator

Re All

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to respond to this article of mine. Please allow me to add a few things about the article.

One; I am personally and morally against the type of Islam as practiced by the Taliban of Agfhanistan.

Secondly; This article was penned, or typed as the case may have been, after a ``stimulating`` debate and was posted to Chowk. Hence, the typos and spelling errors in the article.

Thirdly; The destruction of the Bamiyan statutes by the Taliban is a purely political act in sheer dispair at their failure to be given a de jure status by the world. I think that the international community has pushed the Taliban so far beyond the pale of a compromise, that this act is nothing more than a desperate act of a drowning man clutching at straws.

Whether the Taliban have alienated themselves by their deeds or the world did it is an interesting question, which needs to be pondered.

All the international organizations; western or eastern, who are concerned about this issue would do well to remember that real issue, which needs to be addressed in Afghanistan, is not the statutes, but the re-creation of a civil, tolerant society in that war torn nation. Afghanistan is suffering from over 20 years of conflict in one guise or another and there is a whole generation there, which knows nothing except the art of destruction.

The sarcasm of my article aside, I think that the policy makers who begetted the Taliban for their own realpolitik interests would be well advised to re-consider their options.

Just like nature abhors a vacuum, so does politics and the Taliban are fulfilling a political vacuum in Afghanistan. Those nations, which admonish the Taliban and their supporters should also consider their own handiwork in keeping alive the conflict in Afghanistan by aiding the Northern Alliance.

There needs to a phased withdrawal of international support to the warring sides in Afghanistan and unless that happens, imposing sanctions on the Taliban will do nothing to futher the progression of a moderate internationally intergrated and accepted society in Afghanistan.

Yes; I agree with all the distractors on this board, who have pointed out the short comings of my article and I thank them. The idea of this article was to stir the proverbial hornet`s nest and have the people question my aim, in penning this article, and hopefully question their own stance on this issue.

My friends, please do not accept the official ``truth`` as handed out, but question the motives of all concerned.

Ciao!

......now that we all know that the horrid west is responsible for the taliban`s behaviour and everyone seems to be converting to mullah omar`s one-eyed sect of islam, i would like to sign up too ...............

.............where do i send my application ? how much sawab will i get ? how many statues do i have to destroy as a rite of passage ? how many houris will i get ? can i refuse the gilman ? what is the alcohol content in the heavenly nectar ? will i be able to visit my friends in hell ? do i have to wear my shalwar above the ankle ? can i use toilet paper ? do i have to have urstruly as a room-mate? do i have to read the koran ever day ? can i read any other book ? is there anything else for desert other than halwa ? will i have to suffer f.r. khan ? do i have to pray fajr every day ? can i use a tooth brush instead of maswak ? can i take a bath more than once a year? do i have to sleep in a tent with sheep? can i have a blt? can i continue my playboy subscription ? can i keep my amnesty international membership ? can i have a shia and an ahmedi as friends ? can i have a drink .... NOW!

.......... on second thought - i withdraw my application ......

I feel sorry for the amiable and peaceful Tibetans -- as if the destruction of their homeland was not enough, they are powerless to do anything about the wanton destruction of the Bamiyan statues:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/mar/05pic2.htm

So much for the cheap labour of mainland Indians:-

http://www.economictimes.com/today/07lead01a.htm

``THE HIGHEST salary offered in the campus placement sweepstakes has now jumped up to a whopping $225,000 (that’s well over Rs 1 crore), including benefits.

No prices for guessing which campus has got the honour? Yes, it is IIM, Ahmedabad. And the enviable offer has been made to five IIMA students by Lehman brothers, an investment bank.

``

The average Indian compensation went up by 10 per cent to 7 lakh, whereas the average foreign compensation went up by 15 per cent to a cool $92,444 (more than Rs 42 lakh). McKinsey made the highest Indian offer of Rs 12 lakh to eight students.

``

Well done Indians. 90`s was the era of Indian tech. Beware mainland Indian managers have also arrived.



``

In all the examples that the author gave, of various countries (India, Pak, S Arabia, France etc), once may concede that not enough is being done to protect their heritage sites. At best, they can be accused of benign neglect. But that is quite different from wanton destruction of heritage sites, that too with official sanction, as is the case with Bamiyan.

The two are therefore cannot be equated. It is not just an issue of political correctness.

In response to Ferozk (Reply # 43)
Dear Feroz:

Your statement: ``My friends, please do not accept the official ``truth`` as handed out, but question the motives of all concerned.``

My reply: I fully agree (based upon my understanding of the global/national politics).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Ferozk,

Throughout the article and subsequent replies you refer to ``statutes``. I presume you are actually talking about ``statues``. A ``statute`` happens to be a law.

Take care

One of the most illogical and full of gramatical mistakes article I read in years. The author started his cases with portraying as if all this ho ha about Taliban`s destruction of the Bhuddah`s statutes is a western media` hype, but at the end without a sign of blush on his face condemned Pakisatan, India and frew other Asian countries for their protest. It seems he forgot in the course of penning down this article that these are all non-western countries.

Moreover it seems that a bunch of irrelevant examples have been cited to make the case strong. Take for example India (I am a Pakistani) and the issue of Taj Mahal, what was this? These two issues are, what they say, poles apart and most of that gotta do with uncontrolable

polution and population in India unlike Taliban taking TANKS and launching a state sponsered attack on a historic site. The example of even BABRI MASJID isn`t releveant as it wasn`t state controled (at least not officially!!) attack on the Masjid. Similarly the examples of Pakistan, Germany, Japan and bla bla bla were all not only irrelevant rather speak of the fact that writer does not have a grip on the topic he is writing on and wanna put these ideas for a long time and found this incident as an excuse to express his opinon.

I think the most important thing in this era is the ability to live in a diverse culture and to accept the communities with differences and thus flurish. Whatever estern countries did where ever does not warrant Taleban or for that matter any one to demolish any one`s sacred places or any historic monument. If go by author`s logic does that mean that Hinhus in India should take their positions against all the Mosques in India in response to the lootings of Mahmood Ghaznavi, Babar, Lohdi, Khliji and many others. We can`t buy the fact that Isralies should demolish Bat-ul-Muqadas for muslim`s conquering of their land thousands of years ago.

A view from,

FirstSlip

Re: spout

``Could you send this to the editor at the New York Times. I`d like to see if that biased newspaper would publish such a mind opening article. I doubt it.``

Whoaahahahahah.....this is a classic Pakistani revisionist defense. Everyone in the world is biased and out to get Pakistan and Islam. The New York Times, CNN, BBC, Associated Press...you name it. (It`s probably a Jewish-Hindu conspiracy, right?) The only objective reporting is done by the Daily Dung and the Yawn.

FerozeK (#43):

I repeat that it was an excellent piece. But I notice discomfort on your part after having penned it after a flurry of ‘stimulating discussion’. You, as the author, have every right to feel remorse and even change your mind, but it does give out the wrong signals: That you lack consistency.

You have stated, “The idea of this article was to stir the proverbial hornet`s nest and

have the people question my aim, in penning this article, and hopefully question their own stance on this issue.” Now, after doing so, it does not seem right to get into pacifist mode. I, for one, feel cheated, having stuck my neck out already!

(Btw, since I am relatively new to Chowk, I did not know that F.R.Khan and you were the same person. Now I am wondering if indeed they are…:)

Farzana

Eklavya (#25):

“In a more lighthearted vein, only you could have written something that both Farzana Vershey and I can enjoy! You should come to India, throw the BJP and the Sahabuddins out, and become our prime minister :)”

Gosh, considering you said somewhere that you had stopped reading my posts, your concern about my enjoyment is touching indeed. However, don’t get carried away…if we can discover some other source of mirth (at a pinch, there is the one who you warned about me!) on home territory we will find our own leader. Just a thought: Would you really mind rooting for me? After all, did you not condescend to say in one of your posts that I was an Indian? Take your time.

F

Ferozk,

A great article, what a consistancy of logic. In afghanistan, the ruling clergy decides that their religion demands the destruction of idols, in any case theirs is a religion that condems idol worship. So they have decided to destroy the idols of another religion, much older than their own, legacy of a period when many people of this satanic idol worshippers inhabitted the same land.

I also agree that this is very similar to the damage to Taj mahal due to environmental polution. Hindus, dirty as they are, are imposing their values on the symbols of islam, tajmahal, and destroying it slowly. TNT, not two nation theory, on the budha statue is essentially a concetrated polution attack on taj mahal. Indians, primitive as they are can only achieve the destruction slowly while the progressive taliban with help from TNT of both meanings is achieving it faster

Bombing of bagdad is also of the same class. A muslim nation invades another, kuwait, the might of iraq is concentrted in a city called bagdad. The west, same as the indians, hate the islamic structures, decides to bomb bagdad, very similar to the taliban action, so that the symbols of another religion are destroyed. Same as Taj, concentrated polution, delivered from the air. What is important is to focus on the outcome, the structures are destroyed, what ever be the motive or the time frame. Nothing will survive for ever, every one will eventually die, due to old age, decease, or murder, what is the difference.

I do remeber you writing articles on pak military, appear to have close association with that institution, and the above logic of your article is a proof of that the above institution is the apex of pak achievement.

regards and best wishes. There is a concept called, `` maya` , your aticle is a proof of it.

jay

hamidm unkal #44, ``now that we all know that the horrid west is responsible for the taliban`s behaviour and everyone seems to be converting to mullah omar`s one-eyed sect of islam``

There you go again, misinterpreting a writer`s work in order to go on your neverending sarcastic monotones regarding religion....and repeatedly proclaiming your love for alcohol (even those damn goras aren`t so exploitative about their drinking habits).

What`s with desi old men who think they are liberals and their constant need to tell other desi folks that they love alcohol?

The things people do to get attention.

How could you possibly do it to this article as well?

I think it`s gives fair criticism to everyone, the West, and the idiotic Taleban.

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Ferozk #43:

``The destruction of the Bamiyan statutes by the Taliban is a purely political act in sheer dispair at their failure to be given a de jure status by the world.``

I am sure the world community would give a de jure status to the Taliban now.

A request: I would be interested to know of any events of political activism that do not include religion in the Muslim world, even refs to writings by the Muslim elite would be appreciated.

Despite Iraq`s starving children, the stupid Saddam (who has not a little sympathy from some kafirs I know from my country) the churches and the Gurudwara there are left untouched. What Mr Hussain needs is a Pakistani political/IR adviser to make the world bend over.

May God save Pakistan, sorry, Islam,...like the Buddhas, the Babri Masjid and the Ram and other temples destroyed before.

PS: Buddhists are no idol worshippers, except that they follow the native kafir tradition of attaching reverence to the Buddha statues. Sculpture making must be the only major art form(leaving aside dance and music and scores of festival rituals/ celebrations) that they adopted from the Hindus and spread across South-East Asia and up North.

``I think that the international community has pushed the Taliban so far beyond the pale of a compromise, that this act is nothing more than a desperate act of a drowning man clutching at straws.``

Re: Farzana V

Yes; F R Khan and Ferozk is the same person.

Re: Jay

Thank you for your kind support! :) lol


Farzana, my problem with this whole issue is that I think, anyone correct me if I am wrong, that the international opinion/perception is askewed in this matter. The international community gives de jure status and legitimacy to the Northern Alliance as the rightful representive of the Afghan people. The Northern Alliance politcally controls about, lets say 5-15, percent of Afghanistan.

The Taliban who control about the remaining 85-95 percent of Afghanistan are the defacto rulers, because even though they lack international support, they are politically and territorially in control of Afghanistan. The international community has sought to isolate the Taliban and in doing they have narrowed their own channels of communications with the militia.

Could anyone on this board please give me one valid reason why the Taliban should listen to the world`s opinion in this matter?

I do not agree with the Taliban period.

Still I think that the United States and world, in a typical knee jerk response, in isolating the Taliban did so from purely an emotional reason and not from any hard realpolitik sense. International relations demands a modus vivendi, if it serves any interests, even with the satan and in this case, I think that the world has really misjudged its policy towards Afghanistan.

The question is why does the world not ask the Northern Alliance to save the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Why is it demanding from the Taliban that it act on this issue to appease the international opinion?

In an ironic sense, the world asking and pleading with the Taliban to re-consider their intentions on this issue has reversed itself by directly engaging the Taliban in talks - something that it had avowed never to do! If it is asking the Taliban to stop and reconsider their ``fatwa``, is it in fact, in toto, suggesting that it considers the Taliban as the as the ``rightful`` government of Afghanistan?

Or has it finally realized the difference between its policies of international idealism and the realities of the power structure in Afghanistan?

If there is anyone on this board, who can answer these questions, I would love to hear from you! I think that there is a bigger game afoot in this matter, which would be interesting to debate, but on the other hand, I guess, slings and arrows of a personal nature are more amusing!

Ciao!

Hey, F.R.,

Simple question: Should the Taliban be allowed to destroy these statues? I don`t think a long article need answer that.

Here`s a quote a came across recently (I think it`s P.G. Wodehouse, of all people): ``The Criminal mind does not appreciate art.``

I amuse myself trying to think of any art theft in Pakistan. There is none (barring allegations that the director of one of our art centers had a Sadequain removed from the gallery to his home - but that just fills me with some measure of appreciation for the criminal).

Rafay

Re: scout, #34

I agree with you. New York Times is blatantly and shamelessly biased. That newspaper is a disgrace to journalism.

Re: RSaxena, #51

``Everyone in the world is biased and out to get Pakistan and Islam. The New York Times, CNN, BBC, Associated Press...you name it.``

Not everyone in the world, and not against Islam, but definitely against Pakistan. Yes, the New York Times, Time, Newsweek, the Financial Times, the Economist and BBC for sure (I don`t watch CNN). But not the Wall Street Journal. WSJ may be the best newspaper in the world.

``It`s probably a Jewish-Hindu conspiracy``

Sometimes it certainly appears that way.

#43 FerozK

I have heard the argument along these lines a few times here: country X is desperate and acts (or may act) irresponsibly and the way to deal with it is to give into X`s tantrums. Ras Siddiqui has argued this in the context of the mullah takeover of Pak politics and why India should be the one making concessions. Whatever happened to the responsiblity of X?

I do agree that the world community, especially the UN at the urging of the US, but just about everyone else as well, has abandoned Afghanis. More criminal is the conduct of the Taliban, their attitude towards their own people and their war craziness. I don`t believe they care a whit about the famine or common Afghanis. If they did, they`d cut down their tantrums and not act as if the world owes them (the talibans) something. I believe though that their only goal is to install a pure Islamic State, even is all that state is left with is barren land, broken idols and no people other than them. In a way the Afghanis are being held hostage by the Taliban. One way to break them free is for Pak and Saudia to derecognize the Taliban which would essentially doom them.

....sorry bro...you are down by 6, 27 seconds left in the fourth, on your own 37,with all downs left...and you go for a hail mary...and on the sidleines I can see the grin on your face...I protest!

The taliban snookings it nose to civilisation is nothing new - its treatement of women etc - now this act is just another assualt upon civilisation (be it the eastern (islamic, buddhist, hindu) kind or the western judeo-christian kind. It doesnot matter. People like F. R. Khan are just plain blind in that their apologia for the Taliban is silly and rooted in a case to to spite my world I cut my nose variety.

For this virulent form of a illness the only solution is to get rid of it. But then the we know better we are after all the progenators of the virus called taliban - a bane on Islam.

Check out

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/20010312/edit.shtml#ba

Ms. Versey # 52

You left me speechless with your post# 52. May I ask why my head was squished when I expressed the same concerns at your Symbols board?

Very good questions.
sb #57
`` A request: I would be interested to know of any events of political activism that do not include religion in the Muslim world, even refs to writings by the Muslim elite would be appreciated. ``
Wolpert in his book on Jinnah seems to imply that there cannot be. Maybe the preconception is so strong among thinkers and movers that noone has tried hard enough.

anamika #61
``Whatever happened to the responsiblity of X? ``

Very true.Why is the rest of the world is held up to their own defined standard of human rights by some countries who observe no such standards themselves?

In Afghanistan`s case, apparently at one time, there were the Iran-funded groups, there were the Saudi-funded groups there were the US-funded groups and there were the Soviet-funded groups. No doubt there were other players, too. Its hard to figure who should take responsibility.

I guess a proud people who no outside force could comprehensively defeat in preceding centuries was finally defeated by arming each against the other. The Taliban`s unyielding philosophy has only worsened what was already a very bad situation, I`m guessing.

Sadhana

Re: Reply #: 59 rafay_alam

P.G. Wodehouse or whomever said the quote you quoted, ``The Criminal mind does not appreciate art`` - does not make sense. Art is different things to different people, it can be pretty or ugly, depends on one`s perception and taste.

I do not agree with anything the Taliban do, and I wish they would appreciate the ancient Buddhist art they set to destroy, but I do not label them criminal or un-artistic for their actions.

-zensufi-

In response to zensufi (Reply # 66)
Dear Mariam (?):

Welcome back! I agree with your position.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Re: Feroze 58

Feroze, The sanctions against the Taliban are in reality sanctions against Pakistan and are a cynical act of sabotage by the previous American adminstration against the present American Administration.

Most all events effecting developing nations are a reflection of the ideological battles, especially in the States.

You will notice that the sanctions were designed and secured through the security council in record time, while simultaneously, Pakistan had asked for a dialogue between the Taliban and the States.

Unless the Taliban secure Ahmad Shah Masood, the santions regime will continue. Daily small but significant numbers of NA commanders and soldiers defect to the Taliban. The Tactical situation on the ground is not a major problem, the continued leadership of Mullah Omar is however; a source of concern. Evolutiuon of the movement is a strategic necessity.

Osama Bin Ladin has already travelled outside Afghanistan on two seperate occassions. A base outside Afghanistan is under preparation.

You will notice, the present American administration has been restrained, it`s humanitarian response encouraging.

The Leadership council of the Taliban look for strategic success, Mullah Omar is under pressure to deliver.

Godot #60,

yes the wall street journal is a much much better newspaper than the NY Times.

Saxena`s not feeling well these days, so don`t worry about him.

re: Studebaker # 56

I am indeed appalled by the news that the haj tour operators provide the same tour for Rs 70,000 for which the Central Haj Committee chaired by Mr. Salamatullah, charges Rs 80,000 after receiving a subsidy of Rs. 19,640 per person.

Please read the following article about the way the Haj committee is constituted and operated.

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/nikhilpatwardhan/wisaths.html

It is high time India privatizes these tours and does away with religious subsidies altogether. The job of the government should only be to provide for law and order and not subsidies for religious travel. Especially when there are no proper checks and balances on the organizations getting such funding.

Many Hindu organizations that grew too big were taken over by the government in the past ostensibly to maintain transparency. In case such interventionist policies are not eliminated maybe these rules should be extended to minority institutions too. The Central Haj Committee would be a fine organization for a start. A proper audit of this organization and a review of its constitution would set a nice precedent for improving the conduct of many other NGOs receiving government funding.

Even if the government decides to discontinue intervention in Hindu organizations it would be a good idea to require all religious bodies receiving tax exempt status to be subject to regular audits.

And finally let me reiterate my demand for a massive expansion of the judiciary from the present colonial levels so that criminals are prosecuted and punished faster. Maybe some of the money saved from the elimination of subsidies can be used for this purpose. We need a judiciary with atleast ten times as many judges. It is time Indians as a nation paid more attention to matters affecting their daily lives.

Ashish

Re: Ferozek #58

``The question is why does the world not ask the Northern Alliance to save the Buddhas of Bamiyan?``

I would think that because the NA do not control the territory around Bamiyan, and that they are not the ones carrying out the `eradication` as you put it in the article. This sounds like the obvious, reasonable answer. Am I missing something?

Layman#47 has got it right.

I think human beings are more important than idols.Human beings can be tansformed but idols cannot be.Did Lord Budha preach Idol Worshipping? Indeed not.After forty years of mediation, he just uttered `` The person who couldn`t achieve satisaction in this world can never be blessed.``.

Lets ponder upon the teachings of the great man instead of making hue and cry over the destruction of lifeless statues.

Millions of Afghans lost their lives during the war with Soviet Union.Millions of them disabled for their entire lies.They were than the heroes for the West.They are now enemeys coz they wanna live in their own way.Bare hypocracy.Isn`t it ?

Greetings to All

It is a common practice among the people to think that they are correct and the rest are wrong. For example in Europe eating blood sausage is OK, similarly I have seen pork blood being sold in USA to be used in various foods. When I first saw pork blood being sold in USA to be used as food, I thought these guys are nuts, they are eating blood yuk yuk.

Years later I had an American friend whom I invited for dinner. One of the dishes was cow`s brain. He asked what it was and after knowing he told me that brain is not consumed in USA and it is highly unusual for an American to eat brain. And at that moment I thought whats wrong eating brain, it is delicious.

Later that night while think about brain-masala, it dawned on me that I had similar feelings about pork blood being sold as food.

In a nut shell if some people thinks that eating pork bolld is OK than I have no right to tell them not to eat it or STOP EATING THAT JUNK BECAUSE IT IS NOT CONSIDERED GOOD IN MY FRAME OF REFERENCE and vice versa.

Coming to the acts of Taliban: What they are doing in their country is OK. We can not pass judgement that what they are doing is wrong just because we think that they are wrong.

How about Taliban telling us in USA to start cutting hands of the thiefs. We will probably think that ``who the hell are Talibans telling us what to do.``

I think Taliban are probably thing the same for us.

Think about it......

Asfand Siddiqui

Sacramento CA

F R Khan Sahib

AS a GOPper like yourself, I am disappointed with the general tone of apologia that runs until the beginning of the last line in the article.

Barabarians like the Taleban understand only one language which may be spoken to them soon by the new President who seems to have a spine.

I am convinced that there is no other nation on earth that is more bigoted and intolerant than Hindoos.

Even on this website, Indian minority members have been told the following in as many words by the Hindoo interactors:

``If he feels that too many crimes are committed on Muslims in India, then he can leave and go to an Islamic state.`` --Surendra Jain

Note: Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sena are part of the government in India.

Indian Hindu Activists Rail Against Muslim Cleric; Protest, Paras 9-11)

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Hindu activists burned an effigy of India`s most prominent Muslim cleric Wednesday and condemned his offer to try to save ancient Buddhist statues from destruction by negotiating with Afghanistan`s ruling Taliban.

The radical Bajrang Dal group said that by equating Taliban actions with the demolition of a 16th-century Indian mosque in 1992, Syed Ahmed Bukhari had exposed ``the ugly side of Islam.``

Bukhari, head of New Delhi`s Jama Masjid mosque, said in a sermon Tuesday his offer was conditional on Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee conceding that the razing of the mosque by Hindu zealots eight years ago was a ``shameful act.``

``The government should arrest him and charge him with anti-national activities,`` Bajrang Dal National Convenor Surendra Jain said in a statement.

``If he feels that too many crimes are committed on Muslims in India, then he can leave and go to an Islamic state.``

Around 3,000 people were killed in communal riots sparked by the destruction of the mosque, which many devout Hindus believe to have been built on the birthplace of the god-king Ram.

Bukhari said he did not condemn the Taliban`s actions, and noted that when the Babri mosque was destroyed the Indian government responded to international criticism by saying it was an internal affair.

About 50 activists of the youth and student wing of the regional Hindu Shiv Sena party protested in the capital against Bukhari`s comments, burning a straw effigy of the cleric.

Farzana #52

Every Indian has a right to say or believe what appeals to him or her. Just because I disagree with almost everything you write, doesn`t mean I would call you a Jaapanee, Amkreekee, or Pakistanee.

To my mind, this is what makes India different from its neighbors and Indians a different people. Such freedoms are very hard to maintain, but in India, we do make an effort.

I will root for any rational human being who thinks as a human being. If you make an effort, you will have my full support.

Folks on the net can listen to the NPR Fresh Air with Terry Gross interviews re: Afghanistan at

http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/fa/20010307.fa.ram

Director of the Center for Afghanistan Studies at the University of Omaha, Thomas E. Gouttierre

Last week the Taliban, the Islamic Militants ruling Afghanistan issued a decree to demolish all pre-Islamic religious images. Reportedly they have partially demolished the 175 feet and 120 feet seventh-century Buddhas 100 miles west of Kabul, considered two of the most important ancient works. A talk with the Director of the Center for Afghanistan Studies At the University of Omaha, Thomas E. Gouttierre . He also served on the United Nations Peacekeeping Mission to Afghanistan, and is the American specialist on Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and South Asia at the meetings of the US-Russion Task Force on Regional Conflicts.

Listen to Journalist Sebastian Junger

He traveled to Afghanistan to profile Ahmad Shah Massoud, (known as the Lion of Panjshir), the legendary leader of the guerrilla war against the Soviets, who is now fighting the Taliban. Junger traveled with photographer Reza Deghati who spent several years covering the war there. Junger’s article The Lion in Winter appears in the March/April issue of National Geographic’s Adventure magazine. It’s also the subject of a National Geographic Explorer program Into the Forbidden which aired march 4 on CNBC.

-Arun the Infidelator

I would like to pose a question to many of you .Do you condone the sale of such statues and other things done before the Talibans advent?Antique smuggling was a big business till recently .In fact it was believed much of Afghani heritage would have been wiped out by scavengers .

The Taliban are committing a wrong in veery sense , ethically , Islamically ..even according to traditions .After all Mahmud of Ghazanavi and many other left those statues .But what do you expect from the Taliban?They are basically the lost children of Afghanistan ..they have no concept of history ..of grandiose concepts ..they are basically a rabble of people .Who wish to bring order ( under their own concept of what order is ) after havin fought against others who attempted to impose their concept of order on them.There are historical precendents of such kind of people ...the French revolution ..or the Iranian ..the idea is to constructively engage them ..and not to isloate them ..

Re: Temporal #62,

A hail mary is actually a pretty good call on first & 10 on your own 37 with 27 ticks left.

In a first down situation the opposition would probably still rush four and have a nickel package with a `spy` linebacker expecting a 15 yard `out` to the sidelines with the spy backer just in case the offence goes down the middle (especially if they have a timeout left).

The conventional wisdom is to reserve the dime package for 3rd down and go `full prevent` with 7 DBs (the hands team) and three rushers on fourth down because you are expecting a hail mary.

This is precisely why a hail mary would surprise the hell out of a defense on first down. Typically a QB can throw 65 yards - 70 yards if he really heaves it. If he gets out of the pocket and scrambles around for about 5 seconds and launches it, by the time the ball arrives it should be about 3 yds deep into the end zone. If your receiver can cover 65 yards in 6.5 seconds its a ball game. The key is to slightly over throw so that either your guy gets it or it`s an incompletion, which will basically function as a timeout.

The keys in the scenario above are two. One, that the defense not be prepared with a full prevent (with a DB working the goal line at scrimmage) and two that the QB can buy about 5 seconds (this is why the most amazing hail marys in the history are by Flutie & Stewart, it was their scrambling ability that made the plays).

Additionally on your side of the border where the end zones are 20 yards deep, a tip drill hail mary (such as the one Michael Westbrook caught) would be much more easy.

In summation therefore... the reason why he`s grinning on the sidelines is because he just beat you!

Latif Chappu.

P.S: In coaching the basic concept is this: Firstly, you pick the best & most viable play for a certain situation and secondly; you simultaneously surprise the other team with your choice. The above example epitomizes such a play. The opposition certainly does not expect a hail mary on first down and it also is the most viable play since your other alternative is to take the 15 yard out (which they expect anyway so it may be tough) and then with 19 ticks to go try a 50 yd Hail Mary (which they also expect and will be really unlucky to concede).

If the above play doesn`t work, you still get to try it again albeit with no element of surprise.

It`s the perfect call man, no wonder he`s smiling.

P.P.S: BTW, who is `he`? And also now that I have literally commented on your football analogy, may I have the plesure