In Sanity

I am saddened by your thoughts. These are exactly the worries God meant us to avoid when the Islam was declared to be our religion. Had you had true and proper guidance in the very beginning- had a sagacious mother to explain your code of life; ypou would have been unaware of these troublesome thoughts. Like they say: Never say never, and It`s Never Too Late, you are young and vulnerable, but Islam can save you IF YOU KNOW HOW TO ASK ALLAH`S HELP.

Best Wishes.

fzk:

shouldn`t that be ``s``bhaji? :-)

Bhaanjiji i also like the way uve spoken up for yrself to missfit/misfit...missfit/misfit, get a life! :) fawziaaapi

Bhaanji, im sho impressed -dint know u had it in u, finally discovered it and am damn proud of it.

jusht my shtyle! i am bowled over,darling.

Hey u know if u ever have a serious thot like dat u can talk to me first okay? Been there, done that,etcetc ;)

-fbaji

harimau,

I`ve started the ``penis god worshipping society``. I promise you, you`ll forget the powers of Viagra when you accept the awesome power of the lingum.

First meeting is tomorrow. We are going to elect a president. I`ll be very glad to throw your name in the hat, if you like. I`d also invite you to read my article on ``Penis god`s therapeutic effects in psychiatric illness`` in the American Journal of Janitorial Psychiatry. Darn Chowk censors turned it down.

We penis god worshippers are fun loving people. Everybody`s invited. The penis god is also extremely liberal. No restrictions on what devotees can eat. The only food items NOT allowed are gurda masala & Rocky Mountain oysters. Only depraved people eat those things.

Chowk Staff,

Please honor the sensitivities of us penis god devotees & not censor our posts, like you have in the past. There are NO vulgarities in us pious people. Considering the fact that you have posted articles on masturbation & ``giving head`` by besharam desis who pray to the penis god only in their fantasies & dont have the guts to come out of the closet (or under the bedsheets) & worship openly.

YLH #134

Phir Pakistan.

Is there any institution in Pakistan apart from Maddressah.

Asma Jehangir was educated in Pakistan! We often forget that.

YLH

PM: Kamran, Welcome back. Where u been?

Patrick, life got in the way. But I plan to push it aside to focus once again on what`s important. Soon enough . ;)

Let me step out of the light now. This is Zehra`s party.

Z, the City was good to me, even without Korean food (had decent Indian on 2nd + 6th, Haveli). Next time I`ll give more notice. Hope the desi hitchfest was fun.

-!K!-

. . . oh, ok, jerking off and feeling warm while dying and feeling cold. Go into some of the ancient texts and the relationship between death and the ultimate orgasm gets clear.

. . . on another note, let me assure all the young people on this board that, properly handled, sex after marriage can become even more fun than sex before marriage. But for that you got to have sex before marriage. Therein lies the problem, head or no head, before or after, with a lot of desis the good parts about sex are usually all only in the head till they/he/she get married.

(Sighs) Queen Victoria does not know how beautifully she rogered our middle class.

I think we all need a quite a bit of learning! and sensing that you are quite educated in the art of enjoyable/fun/good sex, I`d say enlighten us!

Re: Zehra Rizvi, #124

Zehra, my post in response to your article was, well, what`s that word, no, not blunt...that`s it...cruel. I can be very cruel to others at times. Like aggression, that is also in my nature. But eventually...and this happens without exception...my goodness triumphs over my badness. It was in that context...thinking about my first response to your article...that in spit of it...I wrote my reply #120.

``...maybe you mean in spite of not wanting to like me you do...``

Not only I want to...I do.

uh sorry..wrong window

Reply Saxena Sahab # 176

``You seem to believe in an entirely new and compassionate religion which looks nothing like Islam. Even your countrymen will agree with that.``

You dear sir are sadly (gladly?) mistaken. Tahmed sahab believes in the true spirit of Islam

which is based on humanity love for all (Yes u too!) and being good human beings before anything else. The jehadis and mullas you all love so much are not what Islam is all about. They are what people will pick out and bych about but please keep in mind that they do not represent Islam- they are just a sad misguided bunch.

``Why do so many Muslims have a tough time accepting what is utterly wrong in their religion and discarding it instead of trying cover it up with it-is-a-misinterpretation arguments?…Christians admitted the Crusades were wrong and moved on. Hindus accepted that the caste system was wrong and made it illegal``

At the risk of sounding obnoxiously self-righteous may I say that we do not find anything ``utterly wrong`` in our religion. You talk of the Hindu caste system. That Islam deems ALL men equal should make a point in our favor here. I will not get into the crusades since I`ve had enough of that in history class to last me a lifetime and its grandmother.

There are parts of the Quran that are misinterpreted by well meaning and not so well meaning people but then something of such a high exalted level isn`t everybody`s piece of cake. A certain amount of maturity and sensitivity is required of one for such a spiritual task i .e understanding and more so preaching from the Quran and it is this that tahmed sahab has been displaying since the last 20 posts or so. Please keep in mind that Islam is a beautiful religion and not what you get to see and hear on CNN.

Zehra,

Do not get upset dear child. I have no basis not to like you, even if you would like to believe so.

Regarding marriage, it is the beginning of the end for the woman. Love does not exist except in the minds of young idealists like you.

I know you are a free soul and like to tell people you are, is language such as ``fooked up`` really necessary. A simple ``messed up`` would have been sufficient. It saddens me to see intelligent young folks use such language.

Shankar (#109):

[“Farzana, That was hysterical:)”]

You know how afraid I am of this term :) Everything is hysterical about me on the other Boards. I wonder if Missfit would say something about that. You know, neglected by mother, gives head, loses it…will naturally squirt out stuff… Well, at least I know where I am coming from.

[“{{About your penchant, I was wondering whether your penis god is lodged in your foot.}}

huh? why?”]

Because you had said, “Sigh..why do I have this penchant of opening my mouth & putting my foot in it? Esp when I`m proud to say I REFUSE to entertain the penis god in it?``

Hope I haven’t said anything offensive. Gosh, not here as well!

Sac (#113):

[“Being the fortunate member of the male variety, I thought all sex was good(silly me!!). I think its time for the ladies to take matters into their own hands...how about Madame Zehra and Farzana doing a weekly sex-ed column in Chowk for the us the bad-sex, lack of stamina infested desis? All those in agreement say kneel......”]

Firstly, did you consult the ..er…member? Two, now the ladies have to use their hands as well…whew! Three, even if we did start a sex-ed column, would the exhausted desis be able to keep up?

Well, kneel anyway… you just might hit pay dirt.

Zehra (#120):

[“farzana...don`t you love it how we get the title madame as soon as sex is associated with it? madame zehra...sex column eh? farzana you up for it?”]

I think he said Madam, but trust us with our filthy minds to give it the French touch (deep soul and all) – Madame, very Flaubert. Sex column? Wonder if I have the head for it… Anyway, I did an Agony sort of column in Bombay and also for one of those nanga-punga magazines and my first sentence read, “I am not anyone’s bloody aunt.” Well, you may not qualify, but imagine me, auntieji, telling little truant boys about how to go down gently into the night…

Hey, you want to give it a shot? You can tap me for feedback at some point. At the moment, my lips are sealed. Hmm…

Farzana

veeresh babu, why do you want me to spell everything out yaar? not you too..sniff sniff...im slowly losing all hope.
the character masturbates and is thus warm even though she should be cold.
happy?

godot...in spite of what? i dont remember provoking you...hmmm...maybe i have. or maybe you mean in spite of not wanting to like me you do :) thats sweet.

missfit...my mom has her reasons....and even if im sitting altu faltu, thats certainly no excuse to get married..and i never plan to set a time limit as to what age or in what phase of my life years of sexual experimentation must start or stop..that`s very silly of you to bring up as a definitive thing that one must do before marriage...as if after marriage it`s all downhill. i would hope not since i plan on marrying somone i love.
maybe what you meant to say is that for someone like me (shamless immoral young person that i am) marriage is when i will settle down and become more mature and stop giving head and become a good moral useful person of society.
say it like it is..you don`t like me and you htink im fooked up...that`s fine...im glad you do. or what i mean to say is that if somoeone like you thinks that somoeone like me is fooked, i feel like im doing something very right.

:)

rizvi.

Re: Zehra Rizvi, #120

``godot..challo, atleast you`ve started to write/talk about it.``

I love the way you insert the Urdu words when you`re writing in English. Very natural. And inspite of it all, Zehra, I really like you. Really.

I asked a friend who is a doctor, he may be wrong. But if you are leaking blood while committing suicide then apparently you feel cold, not warm. Sorry, lady, this one looks like it is all in the head . . .

Zehra,

I take it you are only 23 years old. Why is your mother, being the educated lady that she is, pressuring you at such a young age? If you are not running around altu faltu, do not get married yet. Besides you still have five or six more years of sexual experimentation to enjoy. You never know, you might marry a man who takes the six out of the sixty nine. And if that happens, you`ll be on the losing end unless you follow the route Lorena Bobbit took.

missfit. you have me giggling...yaar, my mother was always available..she worked nights after we all went to bed.
im telling you...im not a black and white open and shut case...i think i write and articulate most of my ideas to showcase that, to bring it up and talk about it...mostly to shake things up. paradoxes are great.
the thing my mom is most ambitious about is getting me married..that activity is centered around me so i dont feel too neglected by it.

godot..challo, atleast you`ve started to write/talk about it...here i am sticking my scrawny neck out all by myself. chowk is one big voyeristic pleasure ground.

arif...the fun on chowk is calling people names and pretending you know the kind of people they are and making basless assumptions...where would chowkwalay be without that? its what makes chowk soooo unique. the bashing. i was ready otherwise i would have used a psedonym. i think i needed this story to be about me though.

farzana...don`t you love it how we get the title madame as soon as sex is associated with it?
madame zehra...sex column eh? farzana you up for it?

rizvi

well written piece. i`ve never quite understood why people begin talking about the author instead of what they`ve written. odd... the automatic assumption that everything someone writes is autobiographical and even if that`s so, that gives the reader the license to comment on any and every aspect of the writer`s life. personally, i identify with a lot of what zehra wrote, and well, i happen to think that the paradoxes are kinda cool which is perhaps why i`m no longer suicidal. oh, and then there`s love :).

a.

Re: Zehra Rizvi, #110

``what kind of sex are you people having?``

Speaking for myself, better than you can imagine. No holds bar. But I don`t go around talking about it, especially in a public forum. [Yes, it`s me, the hypocrite.]

Zehra,

Children who desire attention partake in naughty activities. They do not attempt to commit suicide. There is a difference between childhood attention grabbing tactics and childhood depression. I am willing to bet that your mother was not very ``available`` during your childhood.

Perhaps she was too busy working and you reflected the lack of maternal love through a subconscious depression that manifested itself into a suicide attempt. Children of ambitious career oriented parents (where children are often put under the care of a third party) are more prone to unreasonable bouts of rebellion. Another common trait amongst these children, when they grow up, is that they seek to distance themselves from family members (esp. parents) both physically and emotionally. This is my opinion on the matter and an attempt to analyze your situation. In no way is this an attack to criticize your family. Please do not take offense.

Kamran9999

Welcome back. Where u been?

Urstruly (the original), ditto. :)

Zehra - 110

``ask a man how he feels about kisssing those lips....``

did taht!! No ickiness there - teh shameless pig!!

``don`t worry...you don`t have to kiss yourself after you`ve given head.``

i`ll try v hard not to : )

``someone told me this world was full of people having bad sex....i thought it an exaggeration but my god...this is alarming.``

V V true. Read sometime somewhere on the net half of Singapore`s population couldnt tell whehter they had had sex - as they had no idea what sex was about. But then am a bit more worried about things closer to `ome.

Sheyla

I think I understand what you are trying to say. ( I used the word ``understand`` just to complete the sentence). But in my opinion the last thing that a person who is contemplating; or one who has tried but failed; or even if you are related to one who has succedeed; is to keep quiet. I think it is our moral obligation to intervene if you find one from the above catagories. I think a person from the first two catagories particularly are trapped in a circular loop of thoughts that only bring him/her to only one conclusion. It is like a hamster trapped in a wheel who runs but goes nowhere. If you intervene you can break this loop. I am no psychiatrist therefore I have no idea what will be the result of an effort if such thoughts are glorified or tonned down as the author did in this article? Probably, it may tone down the moral detterent as well-so it may back-fire. I dont know.

I am only sure of only two things ``intervene`` and ``no one deserves or have right to take his own life``.

re Zehra #110:

There was some link posted earlier that claimed that most Indian men are extremely bad lovers(something that can be applied to Pakistani men too, I am sure). Now we have the shocking revelation that most desis are having bad sex. Being the fortunate member of the male variety, I thought all sex was good(silly me!!). I think its time for the ladies to take matters into their own hands...how about Madame Zehra and Farzana doing a weekly sex-ed column in Chowk for the us the bad-sex, lack of stamina infested desis? All those in agreement say kneel......

later

-sac

P.S: I`d be more than delighted to volunteer my (in)adequate services when threesomes are under discussion.....

Interesting comments.... Personally, people who are contemplating suicide have a lot more interesting things to say than the self righteous ones.

As for people in pakistan not having the best sex... its all a frame of mind.. one man`s blessing is another man`s curse.

Zehra #110

Is it some form of revenge on monogamous impotents.

I have never realized that Shiism has so advanced for equality of men and women that it is now allowing Muta`a for women also. Does a man need to be widow or not you did not clarify. And the man will bear the child or not is also not clear also.

I will give you a sincere advise. Don`t marry for the sake of people or your parents. You will not only ruin your life, but the life of your husband and will shatter your family.

Once you decide to raise a family, then think about marriage with all its attendant responsibilities.

shelya...if it`s not written about and only
whispered about it, its such a taboo that it is
never talked about....when its never talked
about, thats when its really dangerous.
people are ashamed and so helpless that
they see no other way out...that`s just not right.

missfit...at the age of seven i was being
stubborn and wanted attention...i will not
believe that most people at some point in their
life have not thought about ending it.
and don`t presume to know how people who
are having sex feel about each other...are you
only going to allow us one love in our lives
now?

studebaker...not once have i said i got the end
of any short stick. i think my helplessness
and (i dont like that word helplessness...im
going to exchange it with humanity and feeling
for that)...i think its universal. ive felt it in
pakistan, in nyc, in florence in toronto....there
are those god damn days when i wake up and
think, why the hell should i strive again today if
this man sitting in this subway car can`t even
find a place to pee?
it wouldnt have mattered where i grew up...
not that it should matter but we moved back to
pakistan...my parents did the opposite. dont
flag me down or close this up so easily...its
not that easy and i will not let people make it
black and white....its gray and its murky and
maybe there arent solutions....just hope and
goodwill. which is what most people are on
the short end of.

aicha..ask a man how he feels about kisssing
those lips....don`t worry...you don`t have to kiss
yourself after you`ve given head.

what kind of sex are you people having? i
would so badly love to open up a sex ed non
profit for men and women in pakistan....after
reading these responses, perhaps just for
people of pakistani heritage the world over.
sad, a whole nation struck down this
way....can we blame zia for this too? islam
never said have bad sex so, its just the
people.
someone told me this world was full of people
having bad sex....i thought it an exaggeration
but my god...this is alarming.

say it isnt so.

rizvi

Farzana,

That was hysterical:)

{{But I am hurt when you add...``in India i.e``. Are we any less than our Western counterparts? As Ghalib would have said, ``Main bhi mooh mein zabaan rakhta hoon....``}}

Oh well, just to clarify, I`m married to an Indian woman; so I know what they (at least one) does or doesnt.

{{About your penchant, I was wondering whether your penis god is lodged in your foot.}}

huh? why?

.

there is no creativity...no art..in writing about suicide...it`s no joke..don`t use it as an avenue for creative writing.....

from a person who lost a sibling due to suicide

Zehra,

Why did you want to kill yourself when you were seven? My best friend is the doctor of a nine year old girl who was undergoing therapy for depression. She tried to kill herself. I`m not as concerned about the fellatio as I am about your mental health. With regards to being married and giving head, go ahead (no pun intended) but I hope you trust the fidelity of your husband. To me, being in love (not lust) is the key to sexual relations before or after marriage. I sensed a more casual approach to sex in your writing, thus my previous response. Due to the fact that I am a Public Health Educator, I`m more concerned about your mental health. Thoughts about suicide are alarming.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

I have to agree that this article is more about the existential angst a cerebral Pakistani girl (woman?) experiences than about her giving head.

Of course, given the two topics (although not really intentionally by the author), which one would generate conversation? This would be what is known as a rhetorical question. :)

-!K!-

dr. shankar,

i just realized i sounded rude in my post to you.

i didn`t mean to, i wrote it in a hurry and was kinda stressed out.

sorry bro

loved it. more commentary later.

On teh topic of - ``do Indian women give head?``

well open up any book on Kamasutra or one that has pictures of temple(Ajanta/Ellora/Belur/Halebid..) carvings and you will find your answers.

Whether one prefers to give or get - hell - getting is always better than giving be it gifts, flowers, money ... er head too probably

Though I do have to say MissFit does have a point there - yuck

aicha

Shanker:

``Farzana,

Er..ummm...I`m asking? do Indian women give head?..in India ie?

Sigh..why do I have this penchant of opening my mouth & putting my foot in it? Esp when I`m proud to say I REFUSE to entertain the penis god in it?``

Now you have raised a very pertinent point that can have socio-economic repercussions, that is if we do not take the psychodynamics into account.

1. You say, Er..umm...which means you are not sure whether wondering aloud is allowed.

2. ``I`m asking?`` with a question mark is tautology, which means that your question begs a further question.

3. We come now to the crucial point about whether Indian women do give head. But I am hurt when you add...``in India i.e``. Are we any less than our Western counterparts? As Ghalib would have said, ``Main bhi mooh mein zabaan rakhta hoon....``

Extensive research on the subject would of course reveal great disparities depending on the income level, urbanisation etc...but I should think that the bottomline is that Indian women do give head, though they might prefer ras malai. But what the heck, they can get both, can they not? I mean the behenjis and bens in the West down dollops of Haagen Daz in the aftermath of the `disaster` that has befallen them.

About your penchant, I was wondering whether your penis god is lodged in your foot. I am genuinely confused. Oh yes, pardon the note of prudishness in this post. Someone here has got to keep the faith:)

Re: MissFit

``If I was a man, I would be disgusted to kiss a woman who`s mouth enveloped various male members, and vice versa.``

Let us take it a step further. If you were a man, though you might find the act of kissing such a woman repulsive, would you also feel the same way of such a woman giving you head. It`s clear that your self righteousness is geting in the way of your remnant logical ability.

So what about a woman who gives head to her husband. Is that deplorable too. What if she gets ``something`` in return from her husband along the same lines. Would you give a toss then? or would you cast the married lovers as destined for hell too. Oral sex is not sanctioned off in Islam as you might have been educated to believe. Though as usual there are various schools of thought on it.

Your diatribe could have been toned down. It clear that MissFit is anything but, mentally speaking.

Sincerely

Asim

ms fit. i do have psychologoical problems. i havent written about the many murders and sexual misdemenors (i kept it clean this time round) i have committed..maybe next time on chowk..stay tuned.
heres the scary thought, darling...im one of the most normal people you`ll ever know. people use me as an example of not just normal but exemplary. not just people people but aunties.

so, if one is married then its ok to give head? or still rubber protection? also, once im married, does the marriage equivalent of the tooth fairy come and leave my sexual desires/promiscuity under my pillow and all of a sudden it`ll be ok? it will no longer be perversion or an illness? confusion disappears overnight...or my equally virginal husband will tell and explain all to me. anyway, im shia so i can do muta...so...nya nya na booboo.

if i lived in pakistan i would take offense at you saying things like pakistani girls need to feel more american, basically you are saying that pakistani girls are just insecure at all times....since i live in america, i`ll just laugh. theres more things than giving head to proclaim my (apparently misguided)american behavior.
and by the way..did you read the WHOLE piece or just the part about giving head over n over (fixated eh?)..i talk about being an american vs being pakistani....parhou tou sahi...samjhou tou sahi. koshish karou yaar. the head part was like only three sentences...there was more to this. there was, wasn`t there?

scout ki bachi...dil khol kar likhou...kya nahin acha laga tumhe? let`s talk about it.

!K! that was YOU who called...my roomate was like cameron called...i was like, i dunno anyone in that area code much less a cameron...call again. werent you not in this country?

rizvi.

shankar #97,

Don`t get too happy yet. I am what I am, whether that fits your definition of a prude or not.

Although I wouldn`t be as harsh/rude as Misfit in her post, my thoughts are along the same lines as hers.

Yikes! I read this article & said to myself ``hmmm pretty damned good``. Its nice to know that SAsian women can be so open with taboo subjects.

Whats surprising to know is that my own kid sister, Chowk`s own self appointed Mother Theresa is participating with full gusto. I`m not sure whether I should be happy or dissapointed. Aw, what the heck, my cute little jalapeno--go for it! Prudishness is for the birds.

Farzana,

Er..ummm...I`m asking? do Indian women give head?..in India ie?

Sigh..why do I have this penchant of opening my mouth & putting my foot in it? Esp when I`m proud to say I REFUSE to entertain the penis god in it?

RE # 94 gymnosophist

[``I have heard it said that the houris don`t have any orifices. Can some authority such as hamidm or even better, Naqshbandi or Farangi-Kush enlighten me on this subject. I really would like to know what it is that the jihadists are lusting after.``]

The pathan jihadists are lusting after young brahmin boys with wobbly heads whose orifices are not aleady filled with sambhar or masala dosa.

If this is autobiographical Ms. Zehra would benefit from some serious psychotherapy.

Children in their right mind, do not contemplate suicide at such a tender age.

As for giving head, many Pakistani girls born and raised in the United States believe giving head and other such overt sexual behavior before marriage justifies their American citizenship.

In order to fit into a predominantly sexual society, they brush off their moral values and take on explicit behavior.

I hope for Ms. Zehra`s sake she uses a rubber dam to protect herself from vile diseases. If I was a man, I would be disgusted to kiss a woman who`s mouth enveloped various male members, and vice versa.

Do something good for humanity instead of struggling in your self spun web of self pity, self loathing, female sexual servitude, and confusion.

Ref scout #: 75

You said [Oh goody! My aka, my sartaj will be reunited with me in heaven, and he`ll pick my pudgy self over those ``rosepetaled-perky-breasted-with-numerous-orifices houris.``]

I have heard it said that the houris don`t have any orifices.

Can some authority such as hamidm or even better, Naqshbandi or Farangi-Kush enlighten me on this subject.

I really would like to know what it is that the jihadists are lusting after.

Z, great writing (how far you`ve come from ``temptress``). Very honest. Gotta love that. And head...lots of head. Nothing wrong with that either. I called because I read you have the flu. Just read now that you`re over it. All`s well then. :)

-!K!-

Listen to an interview with Asma Jahangir on the National Public Radio program, Fresh Air with Terry Gross, on RealAudio, at

http://freshair.npr.org/dayFA.cfm?display=day&todayDate=03%2F12%2F2001

Blurb :

Human Rights Lawyer Asma Jahangir. She’s been at the forefront of the movements for women’s rights, human rights and peace in Pakistan for twenty years. She co-founded the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. In her work she’s defended a boy against the charge of blasphemy-the penalty would have been death. She’s defended the right of women to chose their own husbands. Because of her efforts she’s been arrested, received death threats, and been the target of hostile propaganda. Jahangir is one of the six recipients of the new Millennium peace Prize for Women, which is cosponsored by the UN Development Fund for Women.

-Arun the Infidelator

Re: scout, #89

``I even look like her if [I] forget to wear your glasses and squint real hard while high on hashish.``

I don`t wear glasses. I wear shades. Hash is not easy to get for me. I get by on weed. But, Like James Dean, I do squint.

``thanks for the ``compliment.`` :)``

You`re welcome. And I still love Sana.

Godot (88)

oye. how do you know its not working out?

thanks for the compliment though ...

-P

ps: Zehra, your (enjoyable) babble reminded me of times gone by (not unlike half the rest of the board) so I let my breath out somewhat. no reflection on you. honest.

Godot #88, ``You remind me of the central character, Sana, in my most favorite play of PTV: Unkahi. Loved her.``

I even look like her if forget to wear your glasses and squint real hard while high on hashish.

By the way, thanks for the ``compliment.`` :)

Re: scout, #81

Scout, you are very funny!

You remind me of the central character, Sana, in my most favorite play of PTV: Unkahi. Loved her.

Re: Purple, #77

Now, that was just great! I wish you submit something like that to Chowk for the Front Page.

Why are you purple, by the way? Holding your breath for too long? For whom? For what? You can breathe in now, because whatever it is, it`s not working out. Or is it that you are tripping on LSD and see purple haze all around you?

wow, this has gotton wonderfully out of hand.
where to start? i dont know if i have that much
energy.

slink, is main aik line tumharay naam thi. you
and i had talked about it once, many moons
back. all of a sudden it poured out with all the
other stored up ooze.

farzana...i read the one on one discussion
offer with sensual paki smirking as well :)

sensual paki and paki girls giving head....if
you want head, give some first. golden rule.
can`t go wrong. and silly me, here i didnt
know there was an option of no head. what
kind of sex would that be? that`s like telling a
chef, no hands.

temporal. wah yaar, kamal kardiya. kahan
say kahan lay gaye ap hum ko. hats off.

why`d i do it? rather why would i do it? how
about why i wouldnt do it...for all the reasons i
wrote of...those are why i woudlnt. why i would
remains to be seen.
i guess no one/very few (you know who you
are) got the bottom line...there doesnt have to
be a tangible, finger point-able reason.

purple...what the hell are you talking about?
im like one of the goodest, self proclaimed
goodest girls i know. i really am.

rajanjua i love neruda...don`t translate..it ruins
it. ever read machado? hes fantastic.

patrick...keep hope alive :) when are we going
to see something from you to shake this place
up again?

challo, i think that about covers it. no more
meds, i fought the flu. bloody battle, one victor.
she stands tall.

oh, and i will come back to this issue of
pakistanis not willing to accept me...see if i
dont, one day. its a silly reverse battle.

z ``one day there will be a ``plop`` next to my
name`` rizvi.

Asim Hayat #84, ``Of course that was before you were born Scout, back in 1980. :)``

HEY HEY!!! I was born in `76 and was the younger sister of a teenage girl in the eighties. I got my share of the eighties Travolta/Imran Khan mania not to mention watching ``Saturday Night Fever`` countless times.

Re: Asim Hayat

``In the future, please dont do a Mahir Mahem on us. Once is enough :)``

Poem is by Neruda. Next time translation will follow.

Re: Scout

Oh goody! My aka, my sartaj will be reunited with me in heaven, and he`ll pick my pudgy self over those ``rosepetaled-perky-breasted-with

-numerous-orifices houris.``

Precisely my sentiments. The Mullah salesmen need to come up with better temptations than that for good Muslimahs. Heaven knows they have enough ``x-rated`` descriptions for the wonderful life in the hereafter replete with sexual encounters as if there is no tomorrow, for us ``Good Mulsim males.``

I distinctly remmeber the times, when Pakistanis girls used to get all dreamy eyed, whenever the name of Hazrat John Travolta was mentioned in Lahore. Of course that was before you were born Scout, back in 1980. :)

Sinceely

Asim

Re: Rajajanjua

You are hereby fined 500 points for using a foreign language in you replies, and that too without a translation.

In the future, please dont do a Mahir Mahem on us. Once is enough :)

Asim

Scout # 75

Touche!!!!!!

Ras

rajanjua #76,

tu eres estupido...

re. rr #78

That was beautiful!

re. scout #72



That was fun-nee. Didn`t know you had a funny bone that big.

PM

asim

`` Would that mean i would still burn in the hell fires, compared to those dime a dozen Mullah who revel in their hypocrisies``

........ i hate to disappoint you, but the answer is ``yes``...... but from what i hear, hell seems to be one hell of a place for a fun-loving guy .... who wants to be closeted with asif naqshbandi, the tabligi jamaat, snotty-nosed boys and houris who look like anjuman and who don`t do you-know-what ?

And do you know what she was wearing? God forbid I let my girls be seen in that get up! How could she?

Anyone would think they were discussing a navel baring, navel piercing little bohemian. Turned out to be an amreeka returned girl in red jeans. The words allah and rasool were whispered in the same breath as the forbidden `red`. Blasphemous, positively blasphemous.

Why doesn`t her mother stop her? She`s probably out of her control. Besides it serves her right for sending a girl abroad - to amreeka of all places. We told her. We told her it was wrong. We told her it was madness, but did she listen? No. What did she expect, but a bey sharam, bey haya (sans shame, sans modesty). Now look at her. God in heaven, she even has male friends. I saw her getting into a car with one - with my own two eyes. Will this girl stop at nothing? Has she no shame. She was at Asia`s yesterday; sitting on the takhat in her low cut kurta, with her horrible short hair. I was so upset to find my son, my only son sitting beside her. And she was laughing. With her mouth open and all and everyone could hear her. Oh it was awful - I couldn`t bear it. I told him to get up right then and there. I saw her expression. Oh, she had guilt written all over her face. She knew what she was doing, the little tart.

How will she ever marry? That`s what I don`t understand. Her poor mother must worry so. Look at her. She`s so dark; no self-respecting mother would allow her son to marry her. And those features - positively wajibi -mediocre, at best, if she`s lucky so they said.

...

Cuerpo de mujer, blancas colinas, muslos blancos,

te pareces al mundo en tu actitud de entrega.

Mi cuerpo de labriego salvaje te socava

y hace saltar el hijo del fondo de la tierra

Fui solo como un tunel. De mi huian los pajaros,

y en mi la noche entraba su invasion poderosa.

Para sobrevivirme te forje como un arma,

como una flecha en mi arco, como una piedra en mi honda.

Pero cae la hora de la venganza, y te amo.

Cuerpo de piel, de musgo, d leche avida y firme.

Ah los vasos del pecho! Ah los ojos de ausencia!

Ah las rosas del pubis! Ah tu voz lenta y triste!

Cuerpo de mujer mia, persistire en tu gracia.

Mi sed, mi ansia sin limite, mi camino indeciso!

Oscuros cauces donde la sed eterna sigue,

y la fatiga sigue, y el dolor infinito.

Asim Hayat #71, ``From learned sources i am ionformed that good muslimahs are entitled to be reunited with their husbands.``

Oh goody! My aka, my sartaj will be reunited with me in heaven, and he`ll pick my pudgy self over those ``rosepetaled-perky-breasted-with

-numerous-orifices houris.``

I`d rather go to hell and dance with John Travolta.

PM#

Probably it was a feeling of guilt to comment after reading half the article in my first reply.

Only a sufferer knows the pain.

One of my mentor said to me and will remain always with me ``Although I cannot feel the pain as you, but I can help you in whatever way I can``.

RSaxena #68

Looks like you have started to live in humans ultimately and are learning some manners.

Good for you.

Farzana:

``Btw, why hasn’t anyone ever asked whether Indian women give head?``

Because we know they do!!! It`s expected, we are the land of Kaamasutra.

PS. Prudes, take it easy.

Re : Hamidm & good muslims

I know they are an esoteric entity; yet they do exist. For most of us it is an oxymoron, being a good Muslim that is. Yet if i do others no harm, and try to do the right thing, and obey all laws , and earn a halal living in this firangi mulk, and maintain my ``sufed-poshi``, and if my religion were not Islam but say something else. Would that mean i would still burn in the hell fires, compared to those dime a dozen Mullah who revel in their hypocrisies, who salivate at the sight of 16 yr old gals at mixed gaterings, and who offer to make nikaah between such girls and and 52 yr old men,without the slightest of ``compunctious visitings of nature``.

That all non believers in Islam are going to hell, without any sort of checkinmg, and that we despite our numerous shortcomings would get to enjoy houris with skin softer than rose petals and orifices too numerous to allow multiple orgies for the faithful, or with landhoors if one is so inclined, is sort of hard to buy.

but we have a lot of people who buy it. So the men get the beautiful boys``, and the ``Houris``. what do the women get for their having suffered abusive marriages and ingratitude, and for being taken for granted. U know it seems our biasses for discrimination, alos continue in the hereafter. From learned sources i am ionformed that good muslimahs are entitled to be reunited with their husbands. One must stop to contemplate if the said husbands are enjoying the bounty of houris, with flesh softer than rose petals, and perky breats, and numerous orifices of pleasure, what need do these have for their wives. But i digress.

Yet, despite it all, I believe in a life hereafter, and all the stuff that goes with it. Though I am not worrying about it 24 hrs of the day, as opposed to making myserlf a better person thru learning the white man`s science, and knowledge.

Sincerely

Asim

P.S Apologies for being open and honest. They say its best to let out ones inner demons from time to time.

... astaghfirullah! ...... i can`t believe such language coming from good muslims like asim and farzana ........ do you know that you guys are headed for jahanum in a handbasket ? ....... now, before go too far down this slippery path, let me remind you what allah told gabriel and gabriel told the prophet and the prophet told us :

[24.2] (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.

........ lest you despair - there is life after the the striping .......

[24.3] The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.

........ and they lived happily ever after .

Re: Farzana`s taking the little English prick (Senseless paki) to task...

``I apologise for missing out on the idiomatic expression “Tell me about it!” and instead going all out to give you a blow-by-blow account (you needn’t thank me coz you didn’t ask). What to do? Engliss is not my mother’s tongue (it is pink; yea, yea, inherited it, though mine is smeared…with vanilla ice-cream). And when I travel to those parts, instead of picking up the nuances of the language, I do what the Queen does – get people down on their knees. Er…curtsy…courtesy. ``

Farzana,

The above is simply priceless. The paki englishman thoroughly deserves your wrath for his mindless ``bakwas``.

And what a ``sad b *a *s *t *a *r *d`` that ``little twat`` really is; BTW, that`s ``English speak`` for ``a pathetic creature`` for the less internationally travelled amongst us, in case the buffoon takes it on him to explain his Queen`s English to us peasants, once again.``Jolly Good, old girl. Got to go for me high tea now.``

``People who keep wondering if XYZ girls give head(and that too on forums), seldom get it(pun very much intended)`` (Lord Confucious, an honourary Brit)

Asim Hayat,

Chichoun ki mallian, Pakistan

Re: krashid

I think you`ve already won the ``Village Simpleton`` title on Chowk.

Now go put together your next disjointed sentence in English on the park bench.

sensualpaki (#60):

“My moniker? Sensualpaki--well I am of Pakistani and I can be quite sensual I think...what`s the problem?”

No problem at all. If anything, lovely… I mean, I think the Taliban too are a bunch of sensual guys participating in an orgy, and a certain gentleman who comes to every Board I visit to specially point out that I get my jollies here, I even consider his obsession as a ‘crime passionale’. That is how we women with identity crises cope, after taking the Ulema’s divided opinion into consideration on other issues, of course. Btw, why hasn’t anyone ever asked whether Indian women give head? Sigh.

Oh, I am usually accused of finding symbols in everything – at last count I said I found snakes a sexy. And when I decide to take things literally, I goof up. I apologise for missing out on the idiomatic expression “Tell me about it!” and instead going all out to give you a blow-by-blow account (you needn’t thank me coz you didn’t ask). What to do? Engliss is not my mother’s tongue (it is pink; yea, yea, inherited it, though mine is smeared…with vanilla ice-cream). And when I travel to those parts, instead of picking up the nuances of the language, I do what the Queen does – get people down on their knees. Er…curtsy…courtesy.

“As for wondering if pakistani girls gave head--(or wanting it)--I`m sure I`m not the only guy in the world who has had that thought...”

Right you are. And if I juxtaposed “looking for head and thanking Allah at the same time”, I guess I was going by the experience of having had a long telephonic chat with this Paki in England who soon after his maghrib namaaz held forth on precisely the subject you mentioned. Of course, I do know that your 1-2-1 with Z had nothing to do with fellatio. I was just playing ball, that’s all.

“I like your posts!” … Tell me about it :)

Ras Siddiqui(#59):

“Farzana #54,

I do not usually intrude but am somewhat (remotely) interested in the outcome of this one-on-one discussion. (The alternative is another round of discussions on Kashmir)”

I always like your use of words, Ras. Outcome? Let us both wait and watch. The one-on-one is not with me, as you know.

Regarding another round on Kashmir, who’ll buy it and what should be the chosen poison? You are aware that the moment I open my mouth, a horde is ready to aim and shoot. Sometimes, I do feel like asking them, as Mae West so memorably did, “Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?” Besides, where militancy is concerned, I do not follow the standard missionary position.

Anyway, I am less ‘remotely’ interested in both the subjects than you are. Incidentally, for the first-ever time, my post was censored. The dreaded F word with all the asterisks in the right places vanished. So “disdain for the all-consuming (insert word omitted)” left me wondering when they will decide that even my name spells trouble. I can see the storm trooper having just discovered kick-ass already getting ready….or may be not. He is busy trying to find flames in the ashes.

Gosh, and here we are talking about simple oral stuff. What a life.

Zehra:

While you are still hot…with the flu…thought I’d keep the Board lubricated.

You touched so many emotions, thoughts, feelings, .. and you left them at that. you didn`t try to answer all questions, or resolve all issues. Thats why the piece works so well.

And you`re a gifted writer.. ``Well, there’s no ayah here today and no mirchi. And I hear your love is better than ice cream.``

krashid, re. #43 and #63,

A simple sorry would have done it, yaar!

Godot #62

RSaxena is trying for some title on Chowk.

Such an intelliegent ape. I marvel at the genius.

He even Pees after watching PEE TV.

F Zehra Rizvi#

I have read your other stories.

You know how to use words.

God bless you (whether you believe in HIM or not).

Life is full of frustrations and success and satisfaction also.

Life goes like that.

Everybody can be your enemy, except your mother.

I always ask my mother before making any big decision. (Whether I agree to it or not but I take her advise in the spirit of in my best interest).

Re: RSaxena, #61

``This is kick-ass writing``

Who says you are not eloquent! You put Shakespeare to shame!!!

Zehra,

This is kick-ass writing. I got so caught up in the flame wars, I forgot to read this.

Have you ever read Jack Kerouac?

Farzana,

You took my phrase ``tell me about it!`` literally--it is an idiomatic expression in England! It means that I am familiar with what you mentioned NOT that I want you to tell me about it. Like if you say, ``The Godfather is a great movie!`` and I reply, ``Yeh! Tell me about it!`` It means I agree with you... (or is that an Americanism I have picked up from watching too many films..). I guess I should say thank you for the description anyway!!! :-)

A british paki looking for head and thanking Allah at the same time? That`s how you saw it right? :-) I thanked Allah that I had never seriously considered suicide and for life being a precious gift...

As for wondering if pakistani girls gave head--(or wanting it)--I`m sure I`m not the only guy in the world who has had that thought...

And believe me, my offer of Zehra to communicate 1-2-1 was nothing to do with fellatio whatsoever!

(as for the shar`iah ruling on oral sex...from my research it seems the ulama are divided on this issue...)

:-)

My moniker? Sensualpaki--well I am of Pakistani and I can be quite sensual i think...what`s the problem?

BTW, I like your posts!

Farzana #54,
I do not usually intrude but am
somewhat (remotely) interested in the outcome of
this one-on-one discussion.
(The alternative is another round of discussions
on Kashmir).

Ras

Zahra

Are you calling Scout a `Gulehri`?

One more thing if you don`t like people from Bronx, stop ridding the 456.

This the second extremely morbid essay I have read recently coincidentally, or not, both written by a desi woman. Anyway I cant understand what seems to be the problem? Is it the conflict between what you are or have become and what you would have really wanted to be? Or is it the dual life that most desi women growing up in the USA have to live i.e. one for their families and one for their friends etc. I think you need to be honest with yourself and with people who love you, forget about fitting in, you will fit in even if you don`t try this hard, and believe me people will respect you more that way!

I find the hoopla on this board quite ridiculous. I am simply getting sick and tired of this prevalent mania, that each and every article on chowk ``is/ought-to-be`` a literary piece. How many chowks are there on the face of earth where people recite literary pieces? I have heard of the famous `tea-house` in Lahore -- smoke filled hall, chai kae` repeated daurs and a poet`s latest poetical work, or a writer`s latest prose would be discussed. Weirdos? Phirae`Hoae` Damagh? Probably and probably not.

The word ``chowk`` has other implications than a den for literary pieces. In my opinion, it`s a place where people share their experiences and/or inner thoughts, perspectives, outlook, ideas - in addition to that, current affairs, the demolition of Buddha, the color purple, the latest henna trends, the best hair-oil available on earth are also profound topics of discussion.

Well, if the author wants to kill herself, nothing can be done. She better go ahead with her ``i-am-on-fire`` message.

Probably, she wanted to state her inner most feelings in black and white.

Probably, there was a void that she wanted to bring up.

Probably, she wanted to relate this bleak picture to get some ideas and see if any little bee or cute gulehri[squirrel]on board could tell her something that she could take home.

Probably, this is where she lives - bleak house!

Probably, it was a vent.

Probably, it was none of the above; just words.

Whatever.

On a relatively serious note: I think Zehra is just stating her feelings and what she`s going through or went through. Simple. Now, if person x,y and z find her expression similar to theirs - well and good. If person alif, bae and pae did not feel the same, that is justified. Also, she is not the representative of all Pakistani Americans. But she is the spokesperson of her heart and mind - let`s hear her voice and disregard it; if it is not applicable. Consider it; if it is.


Godot:

``Why would someone who comes from a stable family and who has a good relationship (more like a friendship) with his/her parents would contemplate suicide? I think there is a direct relationship between a family that is stable and caring to those who commit, or even contemplate committing, suicide. That is, I believe the more emotionally stable and caring the family, the more emotionally stable and happier its children.``


You`ve very succinctly defined the basic points.

a) But there can be many other things in life that can lead a person to the dead end - suicide. During my undergrad years, I`ve read quite a few tales of suicidal attempts as well as suicidal cases at Agha Khan University. Few of my cousins, who attended the school would tell me the tragic cases of their friends and colleagues. I am not sure if those students came from stable family backgrounds, but false pride can also be a killing factor. So, here the case may be very different. Failure, disappointments, couldn`t cope with the self-expectations...may result into such extreme measures. I do not exactly remember the age of the students, but one was 19 and the others who took such a drastic step, were in the same age group as well.

b) During Nawaz Sharif`s times, a youth killed himself outside the Model Town Courts in Lahore, after attempting to reach the PM several times. He was jobless and wanted to talk about his application that never saw the day-light. Loss of Hope...Economic Reasons...Frustration.

c) Another very sad incident was of the famous writer, Col. Shafique-ur-Rahman. An ex-army man. He and his family were close friends of my Pophee Popha. I guess they were neighbours at some point and time in Pindi. He had two sons and both of them suicided[as I recall]. One I am pretty sure of, but the other also did something strange to himself. We would spend our summer vacations always at our Popho`s place in Pindi, and would get to hear about this fiasco. My brother and I had read a lot of books by the said writer in our very early childhood. Whenever the said writer would visit my aunt`s house; my brother would love to go and exchange his thoughts. I never got to know the bottom of the story -- my mother was extremely against our finding out such horrific details. His sone was a pretty young guy in his 20s, as I recollect. Apparently, there were no economic reasons involved in this picture. Then, why? The colonel himself was a very well read and humorous fellow.

In short, stable family, indeed provides a strong base. But each person is an individual. His/her family cannot go inside him/her and change their way of thinking and their feelings. My thought.

Rest Later,

Zehra:

Go get that hot chocolate now. You wrote about something close to your heart and well, your body too, and people have got into discussing Pak politics, unstable families,

their children’s future, their imaan, their carefully-constructed lives, born out of disdain for the all-consuming meanings have been read. But who am I to complain? Look what I did with your shirt! (Thank god you did not mind – I have this habit of prising open everything till the jholi becomes khaali and then nothing is left.) Glad you asked “kahay ka guilt?”…I am trying to explain it to someone…

Oh yeah, he has even wondered whether Pakistani women give head… “I`d love to discuss with you one-to-one,” he tells you. Hmmm….???

Take care!

F

sensualpaki (#40):

“Someone mentioned post-masturbatory guilt...tell me about it!”

Aha, I did. So, what would you like to know? And must that knowledge follow the rules of the Shariah? Ok, to start with, imagine you are lying down, mirchiless fingers, and then you feel every pore of your being open up, sweat runs down like rivulets through a storm and then just when you are about to go under, your head bobs up, and instead of wanting to come up for air and breathe, you want to drown because you have tasted the salt in the sea, and they told you that you have done namak-haraami. Your body is for others, not yourself. Enough?

By the way, I was talking about suicide :)

Farzana

PS: Don’t mind my asking, but why does a man with a Brit accent who thanks Allah and looks for a blowjob feel the need to declare both his intentions and his nationality in his nickname? Just curious, like you were…

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shandana:

re. ``who knows. do we have the right to try and convince someone life is actually meaningful and positive when we know it isn`t so?``

hmmmmm.... KNOW it isn`t so? Isn`t the fact that you choose to stay alive testament to your NOT knowing that for sure?

In any case, it`s hardly a question of `rights` nO?

rgds,

P.

Interesting piece of work ... engaging and thought-provoking!

Re: slink, #46

I don`t claim to be an expert on why people commit suicide. In fact, I know very little about it. My point to hamidm was that a child who grows up in an emotionally stable family is unlikely to commit suicide. There is, I believe, a direct positive correlation between the family environment and emotional stability of its children. That does not mean, of course, that there is one-to-one relationship, that the line is perfectly linear; that is, every time the X goes up by one, the Y goes up by one. But I do believe that the points cluster to form a fairly positive linear line.

Now, a number of factors could drive people, who come from stable and loving families, to commit suicide. I can think of economic despair, or marriage to someone who can make their lives miserable, in the misery that one gets trapped into and there is no way out.

``sometimes 12 year old girls kill themselves because their daddy didn`t buy them eid clothes``

I would consider that an emotional problem. And probably the daddy could not buy them clothes because he could not afford it (economic despair.) Or if he could but didn`t, then he had a problem (family`s emotionally unstable.)

``sometimes 22 year olds college graduates kill themselves in chem labs abroad rather than come home``

Sounds like a family problem (family`s stable, but bad grades or failure is absolutely a no no, a disgrace.) That is my point.

``sometimes pakistani women get sick of life and kill themselves, sometimes pakistani men get sick of life and kill themselves.``

If women are treated like crap, their mates shoved down their throats by their families, then yes. Again it`s a family problem. Exactly my point. With men, it`s most probably an economic problem.

``is suicide a waste?``

Yes and No (see below.)

``do we have the right to try and convince someone life is actually meaningful and positive when we know it isn`t so?``

Again, Yes and No. Depends entirely on one`s background and the environment he/she came from and -- this is crucial -- the environment he/she would return to if prevented from committing suicide.

#128,

Who the hell do these people think they are? I mean, ideologically speaking I can understand (though not agree) with why they are hostile to Muslims given the heightened tensions between India & Pakistan, historical conflicts etc, but what threat has Christianity ever posed to India / Hinduism? And have they ever stopped to think that people may not feel a need to convert to Christianity were it not for some people`s abject status within a society? And there have been Christians in India for over a thousand years.... the ideology of these people is sheer madness...What next? A plague on Buddhists because of Dr Ambedkar`s vision? RSS are truly the soulmates of the Taleban..... peas in a pod....

regards

Harpreet

Re: slink #46 and ylh #47

Who are you and what have you done with Shandana and Yasser?

Slink,

Believe me darling, you are top of the list...

Pseudo-intellectualism will not take our nation anywhere...!

Yasser Hamdani

yasser hamdani,

lay of pakistani intellecutals whydonctha, they`re already a threatened species. if they exist at all :) finish up your nice little education at rutgers, come back here, slave away for a couple of years (or three, or four, or twenty) and them make speeches about who they are and what they do and why they`re failures. the pipe through which you voided that particular little tidbit is best used for faeces :)

godot,

sometimes people from perfectly stable homes kill themselves. sometimes 12 year old girls kill themselves because their daddy didn`t buy them eid clothes, sometimes 22 year olds college graduates kill themselves in chem labs abroad rather than come home, sometimes pakistani women get sick of life and kill themselves, sometimes pakistani men get sick of life and kill themselves. is suicide a waste? who knows. do we have the right to try and convince someone life is actually meaningful and positive when we know it isn`t so?

Hamidm,

I think the venerable writer is also a graduate of Rutgers... Personally I dont know what you have against me, but I dont particularly fancy marrying the daughter of stoned-drunkard good only for criticizing and without solutions....

No offence

:)

YLH

PS I dont have an engineering degree so lay off will ya!

Yasser,

ok.

....whatever!

:)