In Sanity

#128,

Who the hell do these people think they are? I mean, ideologically speaking I can understand (though not agree) with why they are hostile to Muslims given the heightened tensions between India & Pakistan, historical conflicts etc, but what threat has Christianity ever posed to India / Hinduism? And have they ever stopped to think that people may not feel a need to convert to Christianity were it not for some people`s abject status within a society? And there have been Christians in India for over a thousand years.... the ideology of these people is sheer madness...What next? A plague on Buddhists because of Dr Ambedkar`s vision? RSS are truly the soulmates of the Taleban..... peas in a pod....

regards

Harpreet

Re: slink, #46

I don`t claim to be an expert on why people commit suicide. In fact, I know very little about it. My point to hamidm was that a child who grows up in an emotionally stable family is unlikely to commit suicide. There is, I believe, a direct positive correlation between the family environment and emotional stability of its children. That does not mean, of course, that there is one-to-one relationship, that the line is perfectly linear; that is, every time the X goes up by one, the Y goes up by one. But I do believe that the points cluster to form a fairly positive linear line.

Now, a number of factors could drive people, who come from stable and loving families, to commit suicide. I can think of economic despair, or marriage to someone who can make their lives miserable, in the misery that one gets trapped into and there is no way out.

``sometimes 12 year old girls kill themselves because their daddy didn`t buy them eid clothes``

I would consider that an emotional problem. And probably the daddy could not buy them clothes because he could not afford it (economic despair.) Or if he could but didn`t, then he had a problem (family`s emotionally unstable.)

``sometimes 22 year olds college graduates kill themselves in chem labs abroad rather than come home``

Sounds like a family problem (family`s stable, but bad grades or failure is absolutely a no no, a disgrace.) That is my point.

``sometimes pakistani women get sick of life and kill themselves, sometimes pakistani men get sick of life and kill themselves.``

If women are treated like crap, their mates shoved down their throats by their families, then yes. Again it`s a family problem. Exactly my point. With men, it`s most probably an economic problem.

``is suicide a waste?``

Yes and No (see below.)

``do we have the right to try and convince someone life is actually meaningful and positive when we know it isn`t so?``

Again, Yes and No. Depends entirely on one`s background and the environment he/she came from and -- this is crucial -- the environment he/she would return to if prevented from committing suicide.

Interesting piece of work ... engaging and thought-provoking!

shandana:

re. ``who knows. do we have the right to try and convince someone life is actually meaningful and positive when we know it isn`t so?``

hmmmmm.... KNOW it isn`t so? Isn`t the fact that you choose to stay alive testament to your NOT knowing that for sure?

In any case, it`s hardly a question of `rights` nO?

rgds,

P.

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Zehra:

Go get that hot chocolate now. You wrote about something close to your heart and well, your body too, and people have got into discussing Pak politics, unstable families,

their children’s future, their imaan, their carefully-constructed lives, born out of disdain for the all-consuming meanings have been read. But who am I to complain? Look what I did with your shirt! (Thank god you did not mind – I have this habit of prising open everything till the jholi becomes khaali and then nothing is left.) Glad you asked “kahay ka guilt?”…I am trying to explain it to someone…

Oh yeah, he has even wondered whether Pakistani women give head… “I`d love to discuss with you one-to-one,” he tells you. Hmmm….???

Take care!

F

sensualpaki (#40):

“Someone mentioned post-masturbatory guilt...tell me about it!”

Aha, I did. So, what would you like to know? And must that knowledge follow the rules of the Shariah? Ok, to start with, imagine you are lying down, mirchiless fingers, and then you feel every pore of your being open up, sweat runs down like rivulets through a storm and then just when you are about to go under, your head bobs up, and instead of wanting to come up for air and breathe, you want to drown because you have tasted the salt in the sea, and they told you that you have done namak-haraami. Your body is for others, not yourself. Enough?

By the way, I was talking about suicide :)

Farzana

PS: Don’t mind my asking, but why does a man with a Brit accent who thanks Allah and looks for a blowjob feel the need to declare both his intentions and his nationality in his nickname? Just curious, like you were…

I find the hoopla on this board quite ridiculous. I am simply getting sick and tired of this prevalent mania, that each and every article on chowk ``is/ought-to-be`` a literary piece. How many chowks are there on the face of earth where people recite literary pieces? I have heard of the famous `tea-house` in Lahore -- smoke filled hall, chai kae` repeated daurs and a poet`s latest poetical work, or a writer`s latest prose would be discussed. Weirdos? Phirae`Hoae` Damagh? Probably and probably not.

The word ``chowk`` has other implications than a den for literary pieces. In my opinion, it`s a place where people share their experiences and/or inner thoughts, perspectives, outlook, ideas - in addition to that, current affairs, the demolition of Buddha, the color purple, the latest henna trends, the best hair-oil available on earth are also profound topics of discussion.

Well, if the author wants to kill herself, nothing can be done. She better go ahead with her ``i-am-on-fire`` message.

Probably, she wanted to state her inner most feelings in black and white.

Probably, there was a void that she wanted to bring up.

Probably, she wanted to relate this bleak picture to get some ideas and see if any little bee or cute gulehri[squirrel]on board could tell her something that she could take home.

Probably, this is where she lives - bleak house!

Probably, it was a vent.

Probably, it was none of the above; just words.

Whatever.

On a relatively serious note: I think Zehra is just stating her feelings and what she`s going through or went through. Simple. Now, if person x,y and z find her expression similar to theirs - well and good. If person alif, bae and pae did not feel the same, that is justified. Also, she is not the representative of all Pakistani Americans. But she is the spokesperson of her heart and mind - let`s hear her voice and disregard it; if it is not applicable. Consider it; if it is.


Godot:

``Why would someone who comes from a stable family and who has a good relationship (more like a friendship) with his/her parents would contemplate suicide? I think there is a direct relationship between a family that is stable and caring to those who commit, or even contemplate committing, suicide. That is, I believe the more emotionally stable and caring the family, the more emotionally stable and happier its children.``


You`ve very succinctly defined the basic points.

a) But there can be many other things in life that can lead a person to the dead end - suicide. During my undergrad years, I`ve read quite a few tales of suicidal attempts as well as suicidal cases at Agha Khan University. Few of my cousins, who attended the school would tell me the tragic cases of their friends and colleagues. I am not sure if those students came from stable family backgrounds, but false pride can also be a killing factor. So, here the case may be very different. Failure, disappointments, couldn`t cope with the self-expectations...may result into such extreme measures. I do not exactly remember the age of the students, but one was 19 and the others who took such a drastic step, were in the same age group as well.

b) During Nawaz Sharif`s times, a youth killed himself outside the Model Town Courts in Lahore, after attempting to reach the PM several times. He was jobless and wanted to talk about his application that never saw the day-light. Loss of Hope...Economic Reasons...Frustration.

c) Another very sad incident was of the famous writer, Col. Shafique-ur-Rahman. An ex-army man. He and his family were close friends of my Pophee Popha. I guess they were neighbours at some point and time in Pindi. He had two sons and both of them suicided[as I recall]. One I am pretty sure of, but the other also did something strange to himself. We would spend our summer vacations always at our Popho`s place in Pindi, and would get to hear about this fiasco. My brother and I had read a lot of books by the said writer in our very early childhood. Whenever the said writer would visit my aunt`s house; my brother would love to go and exchange his thoughts. I never got to know the bottom of the story -- my mother was extremely against our finding out such horrific details. His sone was a pretty young guy in his 20s, as I recollect. Apparently, there were no economic reasons involved in this picture. Then, why? The colonel himself was a very well read and humorous fellow.

In short, stable family, indeed provides a strong base. But each person is an individual. His/her family cannot go inside him/her and change their way of thinking and their feelings. My thought.

Rest Later,

This the second extremely morbid essay I have read recently coincidentally, or not, both written by a desi woman. Anyway I cant understand what seems to be the problem? Is it the conflict between what you are or have become and what you would have really wanted to be? Or is it the dual life that most desi women growing up in the USA have to live i.e. one for their families and one for their friends etc. I think you need to be honest with yourself and with people who love you, forget about fitting in, you will fit in even if you don`t try this hard, and believe me people will respect you more that way!

One more thing if you don`t like people from Bronx, stop ridding the 456.

Zahra

Are you calling Scout a `Gulehri`?

Farzana #54,
I do not usually intrude but am
somewhat (remotely) interested in the outcome of
this one-on-one discussion.
(The alternative is another round of discussions
on Kashmir).

Ras

Farzana,

You took my phrase ``tell me about it!`` literally--it is an idiomatic expression in England! It means that I am familiar with what you mentioned NOT that I want you to tell me about it. Like if you say, ``The Godfather is a great movie!`` and I reply, ``Yeh! Tell me about it!`` It means I agree with you... (or is that an Americanism I have picked up from watching too many films..). I guess I should say thank you for the description anyway!!! :-)

A british paki looking for head and thanking Allah at the same time? That`s how you saw it right? :-) I thanked Allah that I had never seriously considered suicide and for life being a precious gift...

As for wondering if pakistani girls gave head--(or wanting it)--I`m sure I`m not the only guy in the world who has had that thought...

And believe me, my offer of Zehra to communicate 1-2-1 was nothing to do with fellatio whatsoever!

(as for the shar`iah ruling on oral sex...from my research it seems the ulama are divided on this issue...)

:-)

My moniker? Sensualpaki--well I am of Pakistani and I can be quite sensual i think...what`s the problem?

BTW, I like your posts!

Zehra,

This is kick-ass writing. I got so caught up in the flame wars, I forgot to read this.

Have you ever read Jack Kerouac?

Re: RSaxena, #61

``This is kick-ass writing``

Who says you are not eloquent! You put Shakespeare to shame!!!

F Zehra Rizvi#

I have read your other stories.

You know how to use words.

God bless you (whether you believe in HIM or not).

Life is full of frustrations and success and satisfaction also.

Life goes like that.

Everybody can be your enemy, except your mother.

I always ask my mother before making any big decision. (Whether I agree to it or not but I take her advise in the spirit of in my best interest).

Godot #62

RSaxena is trying for some title on Chowk.

Such an intelliegent ape. I marvel at the genius.

He even Pees after watching PEE TV.