They Changed My God

Pankaj #170 I dont think that anything I have said is simply one interpretation of Islam: These things are repeated over and over and over again in the Quran - that on the Judgement Day there will be God and the individual, and that the individuals lips will be sealed and only his hands and feet (i.e. deeds) will do the speaking; that God is Kind and Merciful; that He created man to learn about God`s Creation; that it is wrong to think of yourselves as being a chosen people; I could go on, and no doubt I have repeated these things in earlier posts as well.

The reason we have so many ``interpretations`` is that (a) the role of the Quran has been usurped by books written by individuals, and as a result ``jitnay mooN utni baataiN``; (b) historical accidents have been raised to the stature of religion: the shia-sunni schism is not over the interpretation of the Quran but over a historical political issue; (c) finally, cultural traditions (like political events in (a)) have been also incorrectly treated as being dictated by God. The gap is vast, and the confusion is widespread.

To put it another way, you may recall some years ago they finally cleaned up the dirt and grime of the centuries that had come over the painting of the Creation in the Sistine Chapel. What came out was a painting with strikingly bright and joyful colors, totally different from what even the experts had ever imagined. The same I think is true of Islam. It is time to wash away the dirt of the centuries that has accumulated, and go back to the message that has been delivered to us muslims. We will then be at peace with ourselves and with other people of the world, and get started with what we should have been doing all these years - emphasizing learning, advancing the frontiers of science and building civilized societies.

Eklavya #168

I think you have very wrong notions regarding Pakistan.

I am and most Pakistanis are very critical of a certain brand of Islam which is being forced upon us.

As TAhmed and I believe in secularism, but it does not take our Islamic identity and thinking. Same goes with Pervez Musharraf. Recently he is coming from Hajj. He is a great secularist as YLH will testify. (May be YLH will also do Hajj when going back to Pakistan).

It is a matter of interpretation of Islam that we differ.

And I agree with your predictions. But I don`t see how this is going to change the situation.

JR #177

First of all history of collection of Quran is very authentic. Because Koran has not only been preserved orally, but verbally throughout history.

And you can well imagine that a six year old boy has learned Quran by heart this year.

The concept of Jihad is two fold. The bigger Jihad is against ones self keeping in mind we can escape from Everyone, but not God. The smaller Jihad is what you are referring as Jihad.

This Jihad is for one purpose. Deen remains pure for Allah.

We can discuss it further if you like.

JR #182

Isn`t it a true guidance.

Few months back Indian on this forum were talking about (sadly) India-Israel-American Axis and supporting Gore for this (Ha-Ha).

And support of Israel by Americans is very obvious.

Hundreds of Palestinians are killed so far.

And as for the other Ayah. I have found it a very useful Ayah for keeping my family life intact and in good shape.

I think we should heed more to the message of Quran to understand better.

Tahmed:

[All ideas/solutions are welcome. Also, I am curious as to what you could read clearly in the post.]

As humans, we cannot know all that exists on the surface of earth. So we should let go of understanding each and every myth :-) In short, thanks for taking a note of my thought. It ain`t incumbent upon you to understand the ins-and-outs of ``the thought`` as well. So just let it go.

Thanks.

AnNy #180

``There are parts of the Quran that are misinterpreted by well meaning and not so well meaning people but then something of such a high exalted level isn`t everybody`s piece of cake``

Please sir explain to us mortals in plain language about the verses below. Do we need a Neem Mullah to explain these? What more could a Mullah explain in these verses. I am surprised that anyone needs a Mullah to explain these. The verses are clear as crystal.

5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.



[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good

women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.



Please don`t kid yourselves. There are verses in the Quoran that definitely need to go.

``Why do so many Muslims have a tough time accepting what is utterly wrong in their religion and discarding it instead of trying cover it up with it-is-a-misinterpretation arguments? ``

Re RSaxena

Because.. the moment you find one thing that is incompatible to the rationality and you choose to admit the wrong in its true colors... thats precisely the moment when you are out of the game.. Its now the believers duty to slit ur throat as its decreed in islam as the punishment of denying any basic edict of islam.

bugger off.

Reply Saxena Sahab # 176

``You seem to believe in an entirely new and compassionate religion which looks nothing like Islam. Even your countrymen will agree with that.``

You dear sir are sadly (gladly?) mistaken. Tahmed sahab believes in the true spirit of Islam

which is based on humanity love for all (Yes u too!) and being good human beings before anything else. The jehadis and mullas you all love so much are not what Islam is all about. They are what people will pick out and bych about but please keep in mind that they do not represent Islam- just a sad misguided bunch.

``Why do so many Muslims have a tough time accepting what is utterly wrong in their religion and discarding it instead of trying cover it up with it-is-a-misinterpretation arguments?…Christians admitted the Crusades were wrong and moved on. Hindus accepted that the caste system was wrong and made it illegal``

At the risk of sounding obnoxiously self-righteous may I say that we do not find anything ``utterly wrong`` in our religion. You talk of the Hindu caste system. That Islam deems ALL men equal should make a point in our favor here. I will not get into the crusades since I`ve had enough of that in history class to last me a lifetime and its grandmother.

There are parts of the Quran that are misinterpreted by well meaning and not so well meaning people but then something of such a high exalted level isn`t everybody`s piece of cake. A certain amount of maturity and sensitivity is required of one for such a spiritual task i .e understanding and more so preaching from the Quran and it is this that tahmed sahab has been displaying since the last 20 posts or so. Please keep in mind that Islam is a beautiful religion and not what you get to see and hear on CNN.

Reply Saxena Sahab # 176

``You seem to believe in an entirely new and compassionate religion which looks nothing like Islam. Even your countrymen will agree with that.``

You dear sir are sadly (gladly?) mistaken. Tahmed sahab believes in the true spirit of Islam

which is based on humanity love for all (Yes u too!) and being good human beings before anything else. The jehadis and mullas you all love so much are not what Islam is all about. They are what people will pick out and bych about but please keep in mind that they do not represent Islam- just a sad misguided bunch.

``Why do so many Muslims have a tough time accepting what is utterly wrong in their religion and discarding it instead of trying cover it up with it-is-a-misinterpretation arguments?…Christians admitted the Crusades were wrong and moved on. Hindus accepted that the caste system was wrong and made it illegal``

At the risk of sounding obnoxiously self-righteous may I say that we do not find anything ``utterly wrong`` in our religion. You talk of the Hindu caste system. That Islam deems ALL men equal should make a point in our favor here. I will not get into the crusades since I`ve had enough of that in history class to last me a lifetime and its grandmother.

There are parts of the Quran that are misinterpreted by well meaning and not so well meaning people but then something of such a high exalted level isn`t everybody`s piece of cake. A certain amount of maturity and sensitivity is required of one for such a spiritual task i .e understanding and preaching from the Quran and it is this that tahmed sahab has been displaying since the last 20 posts or so. Please keep in mind that Islam is a beautiful religion and not what you get to see and hear on CNN.

Zahra #163 ``I think I may have a viable solution. In fact, on second thoughts, I may have more than one options and I sure will get in touch with the ``right`` ones. No doubt, I could read something very clearly in thy posts.``

All ideas/solutions are welcome. Also, I am curious as to what you could read clearly in the post.

TAhmed:

You are a civil person. But you are still reserved in agreeing that there are certain verses in the Quoran that need to go. I know this defies one of the very basic treachings, but should I not question?

Adnan and Tahmed:

What is wrong in asking for an explanation? And what is wrong in disagreeing with an explanation?

I do not have to quote from the Quoran, but to any person with the slightest intellect it is evident that there are verses that are demeaning to women and non believers of the faith.

To a person with a conscience is this right?

A little baby girl born in another faith - is she a kufr. Is she a lesser human and are the doors of heaven not open to her because she is not a Muslim? No sirs, I dont want this version of Islam that is similar to the KKK.

I want the true Islam that says everyone is welcome, there is no need to be a particualar way, dress or speak or act a particular way - the only message is be true to God and yourself.

I have researched into history of the Quoran and it is believed that the poetic version appeared later than the original. A lot of tribal and political verses were added in that version.

Do you as educated people really support Jihad the way it is carried out today? What if every religion adopted a similar practise of murder and mayhem towards non believers? Is this what the Quoran teaches? I am sorry sirs, this version of Islam is really not the one originally intended.

If you agree with me or not, there is a need for the message to be amended.

Why do so many Muslims have a tough time accepting what is utterly wrong in their religion and discarding it instead of trying cover it up with it-is-a-misinterpretation arguments? There`s no shame in it. Christians admitted the Crusades were wrong and moved on. Hindus accepted that the caste system was wrong and made it illegal (it`s not gone yet, but at least it`s a start).

Why don`t you guys do the same?

TAhmed,

You seem to believe in an entirely new and compassionate religion which looks nothing like Islam. Even your countrymen will agree with that.

tahmed321 #161

[... Till then, the wine sits in a dark corner inside a closet, out of sight and out of mind. Silently and peacefully aging, improving it`s vintage with every passing year...]

...don’t know much about wines... but I would share what little I know...for wine to age ‘gracefully’ after it has been bottled it should be allowed to ‘breathe’....this is achieved by turning the bottle on its side ... so that it could breathe through the cork...perhaps you may have observed this in fine restaurants or movies depicting such scenes.. when the maitre’d uncorks the bottle of wine and presents the cork to the guest...a wine aficionado will look at the cork to see how far the wetness had penetrated it... like it should after many years in the cellar...a nouveau-riche would ‘smell’ the cork...not knowing it is giving him/her away...as for what to do with the wine...perhaps next time I visit Fairfax area I may be able to offer you some pointers...:)

regards,

temporal

PM:

``Gee, I feel blessed!``


Shukr
Shukr
Shukr!!!
[Khuda Kaa Shukar Adaa Kurtae` Hoyae`]

...Gee, I feel really glad that I could be of some assistance to fellow human beings.

Thank you for your kind acknowledgment!

Eklavya #168

Yes, I remember your predictions, particularly this one ``Pakistanis will blame India for everything``.

To me it doesnot look like the Pakistani establishment at least will ever stop doing that, its just too good a ploy to hide their own ruinous lack of pragmatism and to maintain their disconnect from reality.

Sadhana

Studebaker!

Did I miss any of your posts?! Sorry about that.

The information you provided is useful. Did you also respond to some other points I had raised. If I recall right these went something like this:

1. You had said that Hindus and Muslims lived happily together until Hindus started making universities like BHU and people like Mukherjee took over. I felt that Hindus were merely beginning to do what Muslims had always been doing - focus on strengthening their community. I think I gave the examples of some Muslim religious leaders, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan and AMU - all these before BHU and Mukherjee. I am not sure if you agreed with that.

2. I had also not understood why you had said something like the founding fathers of India had used cunning (or some such trick) to deprive you of your rights in free India; and, that even though you were born in the `wrong place` you always knew where you `belonged.` These things were also not clear.

If you responded and I missed I again apologize. If you give me the reference to your post, I will look it up. Else, perhaps you can address those issues.

Thanks.