They Changed My God

adnan #150 Mr. Adnan, aoa: I must protest your post to concerned: He had asked me legitimate questions to which I responded as best I could. You have no right to tell somebody on chowk that this is OUR business. Chowk is an open forum for all people. In our past interactions, you have casually avoided or rejected Quranic verses when they have clashed with your viewpoints. I suggest your time would be better spent understanding the Quran than in discouraging other people who have expressed interest in the teachings of Islam and concerns about some issues.

temporal, cheraym, Pankaj: Glad to see all of you think so highly of Hamidm. He can be quite funny, and I am glad you enjoy his writing style. Personally, I have no respect for a person who finds it easy to ridicule others but gets angry and nasty when someone questions his viewpoint. This is the behavior he has shown both times I have criticized (without being unduly offensive by any means) something he wrote.

krashid #147 You are absolutely right in #147. In my haste to finish off the post I was writing I left the opposite impression of what I intended. So let me clarify: Muslims are strictly required NOT to think of themselves as a chosen people. Many people (of all religions and ethnic groups) on the other hand tend to consider their own group as something special or chosen (this is what I had meant in my previous post that left the wrong impression). The vast gap between the Quranic injunctions and beliefs spread by the muslim fundamentalists is clear from the following implication of this basic point that is stressed in the Quran: the implication is that as many or more Hindus, or Christians, Jews, or Polytheists or whoever may go to heaven than people who consider themselves Muslims. Recognition of this point brings out one of the many sharp contrasts between cultural traditions among many muslims and the message of Islam.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake, and I hope I have explained myself clearly.

Pankaj#149:

How true! Indeed you can detect the influence of Kabir`s philosophy in hamidm`s writing..... Bhagat Kabir was of course corruscating in his criticism of some of the hypocrisies of the organised religions, Hinduism and Islam, and he is widely revered as the greatest of the Bhagat Saints of Sikhism (ie:those who have contributed to Guru Granth Sahib but are not one of the ten Guru`s.... in total Kabir contributes 227 slokas to the book....the irony of his becoming a pillar of an organised religion, with an equal number of lapsed and un-righteous hypocrites as any other religion would not have been lost on him, I suspect...)

There is a legend that he was born of a Hindu family but was adopted and raised as a Muslim, either way, it really tickled me when you compared hamidm to him :-)

Actually, I can remember the great man, hamidm-ji mentioning once an admiration for Akbar`s Din-e-Ilahi....come on hamidm...admit it!!!...You wine drinking fornicator, you are actually a Bhakti!! :-)

On second thoughts, he also mentioned once he listened to the Grateful Dead....bloody hell, I cannot have sympathy with a man with such taste in music, so if you`re ever in London and wanna share a single malt with me hamidm, I`ll choose the music.....

{see....I am already using.....these dots....I can already feel....an existential upliftment....a divine enlightenment.....brought on....by the dot man.....jiye hamidm-ji!)



regards

Harpreet

Temporal #130

Meri post Se Aap Sharminda Aur Aapki post Se Mein Pani Pani.

Jaali ScienceDan Aesa Hi Likh Sakte Hein. Is Nahanjar Ne Uthne Bethne Ke Qabil Nahin Chora.

Mere Zahan Mein Grammarian Se raleted Jumla Thaa.

The fault of Grammarian and God is that they are flawless.

Aap Ka Khadim aur Pankha (Parastar)

JR:

The ``Jehadis and the ``Maudoodis`` as u call them(us) depicts ur state of mind.

It is very true that christianity, etc etc. ``have croosed that bridge`` yes and they have also crossed the bridge of belief and onto the other side.

1. The basis of all religions is that the others will be damned, and yes we as muslims believe we r the chosen ppl. so do the jews.

Are u not ashamed when brazenly mentioning ``Chechnya, Israel, Bosnia, Kashmir..`` (may i add Algeria, etc) yes IT IS us v/s ``them`` cos look at the response of the ``civilized`` world to atrocities in these countries.

``Islam must allow misleading verses to be expunged and must reform itself with a message that is more universal and human- only then there can be any justification for why it was originally created.``

Who the hell r u to pass these judgements, wht do u know abt Islam.

It never ceases to amaze me that ppl. like urself are so bold in their ignorant ideas.

Get ur nose OUT of OUR business.

Adnan

The writings of Hamidm remind me of a great poet saint Kabir who chastised both Hindus and Muslims for their hypocrisy. Some of his famous verses are :

``Arey en doun raah na paee,

Hinduan ki hinduaee dekhee, Turkan ki turkaee

.....``

``...Kar ka manaka daari de, man ka manaka fer``

If I understand correctly, Hamidm asserts it should be the deeds of a person NOT his beliefs that should qualify him as a good person. If someone does good in his life, helps his fellow persons in their hour of need, he must be considered a ``good human`` irrespective of his religious belief. If there is any God in the sense many of us believe(I have my own concept though!), He will reward people on the basis of their actions and not beliefs/ideologies. In short, anything that doesn`t harm others explicitly can not be a crime/sin.

Zahra #135

I am impressed.

I always say f- with the whole world. If I care that is best for me.

And what I care I do it even at my monetary loss (which is probably more important than not having wine:-).

I am also deprived of this bliss of wine and pork.

But after seeing postings by RSaxena after wine and beer (with Dikar), I now firmly believe that it is a curse on humanity. (Or may be only Shankar`s friend is).

TAhmed 321#

I don`t understand how you came up in your post to JR as Muslims as chosen people.

Who claimed that Muslims are choosen people per se.

I think that is a wrong notion you are substantiating.

Muslims are not choosen people, but are choosen to invite for good and forbid evil.

The criteria for salvation is not a Muslim name but piousness.

hamidm 145

``that was a silly story, if i ever heard one``

You got that right. I felt pity rather than any sense of admiration for the writer of the story.

But to each their own.

JR #134 You raise some legitimate questions, and I will try to answer them:

``I see you are trying your best to convey that the Quoran has nothing to do with how the Jihadis and Maudoodis act. For a minute think if that will fly in a court of law when the perpetrators themselves claim that it is the Quoran and Sunnah that are teaching them to act that way. So who is right? You or them?``

I am convinced that this is true. And that it would be very obvious to anyone who reads the Quran with an open mind. I find it incredible that things that are not just in one verse or two but are consistently stressed and repeated in the Quran are simply ignored by the fundamentalists. I had a series of discussions with some people on chowk who often come out loud and clear on the side of the fundamentalists and found (a) they could not point to anything that I was missing in reaching my conclusions and (b) most disturbing, the fact that the message in the Quran was the opposite of what they believed did not bother them one bit. They simply avoided the issue, and in all cases simply drop out of the discussion rather than accept the Words of the Quran.

``Mr.Ahmed, reality is very different from how you wish things ought to be. ``

Agreed. Isnt that true for so many other things in life. And yet, we must be grateful for the great deal we have. Personally, from all indications that time is against those who misuse religion.

``There is a certain exclusiveness taught and ingrained in Muslims that causes them to keep away and be removed from other people. Though Muslims socialize with others it is always an us vs them - the basis again being Islam. This exlusiveness, this holier-than-thou is the indoctrination I am talking about. Most Christians, Buddhists and Hindus have crossed that bridge, but the Jews and Muslims still hang on to being that ``chosen`` peoples. This is what manifests in all the us vs. them struggles worldwide - Chechnya, Israel, Bosnia, Kashmir, Indonesia, Malaysia etc.``

I dont think it is true to say that the self-serving myth of a ``chosen people`` is reserved by muslims and jews only. These things are driven by human nature, and there are nuts in every community as well as sensible people.

...Will continue. I need to go now.

zahra,

Remember : ``Never refuse wine. It is an odd but universally held opinion that anyone who doesn`t drink must be an alcoholic.``

.......also we must remember that George Bush never let brocolli past his lips and Gandhiji always brought along his goat and nieces .......

... that was a silly story, if i ever heard one.... what does it prove?... ...i, for one, would have been a lot more impressed if you told us that you had never called in sick, or had never cheated on your taxes, or had never gone over the speed limit, or had never thought that a qadiani was headed for hell, or had risked your life to save a squirrel, or had given your bus fare to a bum, or .... how about- never made a personal call at work ?.......... to me that is more impressive than making a whoopety-whoo out of returning the wine to prove your muslimhood .... heck, i would have probably left the wine in the room without giving it a second thought ( unless, of course, it was a fine merlot!)....... so you demonstrated to the world that you were the only good muslim that passed through connecticut........ frankly, my dear, nobody gives a flip about your dietary habits ! it has nothing to do with character !

..... it seems that good muslims exhibit a morbid and fanatical hatred (fascination ?) towards wine and pork - it almost seems to be the litmus test for a momin........ ridiculous ! ..... some of the most horrible of hindoos feel the same way about meat - but they don`t make a big deal about it .... although it is kind of sad to see a grown up man trying to explain a double hamburger without the meat to a hillbilly at wendy`s in alabama ........so ? ... you don`t want a pork chop? ... don`t. ... you don`t want a glass of merlot? - well, then don`t.... but please don`t tell us how that makes you better than the rest of us - we don`t buy that......

.... and let`s not get into a discussion about drunk driving and the dangers of hoof and mouth disease ..... i always take a cab or let mrs. hamid drive and i don`t eat pork when i can have sushi or tenderloin ....or phaja`s paye...

..........but, as george says ``People who dance are considered insane by those who can`t hear the music. ``

Now dear t-bhai...you are getting there.. your last piece was almost there...which chowki were you referring to describing Hamid`s style?.. just curious..

Dear Tahmed.. as temporal says...take hamid`s post with little salt.. beneath all the sarcasm,there is substance.. of all the people you should be able to understand that..true believers can not be distressed by some words..as God`s position can not be changed by we mortals..take hamid`s words as literary gems.

Now, why I am even trying to imitate him?

Regards

Cheraym #125

I agree on HamidM.com.

And I believe in regards to his writing that he is a great family man, who takes care of the sentiments of his family and wife and children very well.

The same ohilosophy he applies to other people, take care of other person as he/she is rather than how I want to see him/her.

I may be wrong.

As far as I can see Temporal is literary and HamidM Inshia Nigar and both very good.

Don`t restrict Temporal to poetry. His story about 2025 World and his Mohajerzada story on this forum is a testimony that he is not ``Nira Shaer``

I don`t know who was great Ghalib or Zauq.

``--Had there been a kid, he/she would have had a real hard time understanding the reason for all my acrobats. I completely agree with you. --``

So, hence proved that children should be taught that they are lucky to be born in a muslim household because all the other non muslims would soon be burn in the eternal hell and thats what God wanna make use of em so stay calm! dont panick! ..... phew!..

u have made it really clear and simple ..

bugger off.

Re: cheraym, #125

``some are expert preachers, hypocrite!!!``

If being a hypocrite means that you are avoiding hurting someone, then be a hypocrite. There are times when a lie is good, not bad. Even the great Buddha, the seeker of the Truth, understood that, and yes, he too was a hypocrite.

Re: Zahra, #122

``if someone ``dares`` to come forth with ``his`` derogatory comments towards my belief system or something that is sacred to me then I will take the person to task.``

Don`t do that, Zahra. Those who insult others` race, religions, or sacred beliefs in a public and open forum don`t deserve any respect. By taking them to task, do not dignify them. Like sadists, they derive their satisfaction by playing with others` deep seated emotions. Only sick and ignorant do that. Don`t waste your ink; it is more valuable than their thoughts. As a saying goes, if you throw a rock in a pool of mud, it is your clothes that`s going to get dirty.