They Changed My God

Cheraym #114

I disagree. (As usual)

I am a silent fan of Temporal.

He is excellent with only one fault. Grammarian.

Hamidm:

I do not even remember where I read this strange word, ``Merlot.`` Were you the culprit? It never existed in my vocabulary. I maintain a fair distance from such stuff. Anyway, whether you were or you were not the culprit; I`d like to bring up a few points and after that I am least bothered where this discussion leads to. There is no cat-fight going on. It`s not my style. I`d rather be a warrior than a fighter. You are more than welcome to reserve the latter for yourself. You rightfully deserve it.

a) I do NOT care[give a damn], if you swim in a sea of merlot occasionally or you take a dive in it after every 10 minutes - that`s your prerogative. Had it been my near or dear one; I would have proposed and implemented my viewpoint.

b) I also do NOT care to read all the buk buk written in the garb of ``dot dot`` mania. Sorry, I have not acquired the sick taste yet.

With that said, I expect that you are, and will remain, in a sober state of mind while reading the following example.

Personally, I consider alcohol[any derivatives] as a weakening agent and have very little respect for people who take pride in their indulgence in the disgusting substance. My true feelings.

Would I go and chant about my true feelings to every Tom, Dick and Harry?
No.

Would I insult a person for they indulge in this disgusting action?
No.

I run into many individuals in my daily life, and each person may or may not hold my set of values. That`s perfectly fine with me. Laiken, if someone ``dares`` to come forth with ``his`` derogatory comments towards my belief system or something that is sacred to me then I will take the person to task.

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Take Care,
E.O.D

down with neo-dotbusters...
neo-dotbusters will burn in hell, insha allah...

dots are children of God too as are vegetarians :)

Zahra #108 Thanks again. As you can see, for now there is no danger of me keeping my opinions to myself.

temporal #109 Nice one. You overlooked one minor detail: this has nothing to do with what hamidm thinks of religion and God, so no need to make a martyr out of the chap. What I was protesting about had to do with knowing when one stops being funny and starts being obnoxious. Mullahs are only part of the problem we have in Pakistan - the half-assed elite (the ones that take loans with no intent to repay, run for elections with no intent to serve, consider drinking a status symbol) are the other part.

binifer #104 Thanks for the encouragement. I think I am really on a roll here :-)

Zahra #106 At least we got hamidm to stop doing those dots. Maybe he`ll have second thoughts on some other issues as well now that he stopped writing in dots ... (oops)

JR #107

``Please spare us the sermon. Every major religion preaches something on the same lines as you did. ``

I agree that all religions, untainted by tradition and man-made interpretations (this is an important point to keep in mind), are essentially delivering the same message. This is what Islam teaches us too.

``I am sorry if you are still delusional about Islam not being an organized religion. Are you saying madrassahs and jihadi outfits are not organized around the Islamic religion.``

That is exactly what I am saying: Madrassahs and jihadi outfits are not organized around Islam. Their goal is to gain political power for their masters, and to intimidate people through violence, not to spread the word of Islam. Even if their goal had been to spread the word of Islam, the only means they could use would be those of the word and personal example, not guns and bombs. PS Incidentally, I am not trying to convert anyone to Islam either, in case that is bothering you - just trying to clear up misconceptions created by the deeds of men for which they will one day have to answer before God.

``If it is all about just God and Man, why have a book and Prophet Mohamed, why even call it Islam? Every man should have his own name for it and call his own God the way he wants to.``

The Quran teaches us of the sanctity of all religions and their holy books. You can worship God in whatever way you wish, and as a muslim one must respect it. As for the Prophet Muhammed, the Quran is focussed on celebrating the Almighty and His virtues. There is surprisingly little reference to the Holy Prophet himself, and where reference is made it is in terms of limiting his role to that of a Warner and a Bearer of Good Tidings not in terms of granting him the kinds of authority that mullahs take as a God-given right. It is people who are incapable of understanding abstract concepts like God who focus so much attention on the prophet and to those around him. This glorification and near-worship of a human being, as opposed to the Almighty, is contrary to the message of Islam as conveyed by the Prophet himself.

Also, as I must have repeated umpteen times on this thread, Islam does not belong to muslims alone: Islam stresses that muslims are not a chosen people. You may see my earlier post (#47)on this thread if you wish, since I dont want to take up space repeating myself. You may be of any religion and go to heaven, and you may consider yourself a muslim and go to hell - that is what the Judgement Day is all about in the Quran.

``I know it is really hard to get free of the fetters of religious indoctrination because fear is the basis of most religious teachings. ``

Rest assured that I came to my own conclusions after studying the Quran. It was after reading the Quran with understanding that I realized the vast gap between what we are expected to do and what we actually do in the name of Islam. Indeed, the Quran specifies that one should go against the wishes of even ones own parents, while retaining love and respect for them, if what one has been taught is not consistent with the message of the Quran.

``You can have a rules book or a penal code to deal with what is right and wrong based on the society and times, but don`t call it religion.``

Agreed. Again, to repeat myself, Islam is not concerned with politics, and the problem of separation of Church and State does not exist since there is no Church in Islam. Only Maudoodiites and others wishing to empower themselves have fouled up the political and judicial system of Pakistan by confusing things on this point.

``True religion is universal and nameless. It is about the individual human spirit and one universal God.``

Agreed. You just captured the essential message of the Quran. Indeed the point you made is emphasized in the Quran.

Let this be a warning to all Dots and Merlot-Lovers :

ISLAMABAD, March 13: A man has been sentenced to death for blasphemy, a judge said on Tuesday. Zahur ul Haq, 40, of Sohawa in central Punjab province, was found guilty of ``tampering with the first tenet of Islam,`` judge Abdul Karim Langrial, who delivered the verdict on Monday, told AFP.

``He was guilty of inventing a distorted version of the first tenet of Islam and then printing it for distribution.`` Police said Haq was arrested early last year after they found him in possession of pamphlets printed with a distorted version of the tenet.

A local resident, Pervez Butt, said Haq had a ``large number of followers in the area before it was discovered that he was committing a sin.``

......... Takbeer ! Islam has been saved - once again !

zahra

all this talk about merlot-lovers .... do i sense a ...........Cat Fight ! ..... i hope i have managed to insult jawahara hoping that she will come to my defense now that allah`s green brigades have answered Inquisitor Tahmed`s call. Ram gawa hai - at this point i will even accept help from the saffron brigade .....rsaxena, jay, shankar - where are you ? help! .... but then the momins and mominas will say, `` see - the hypocrites and the kafirs have once again formed an unholy alliance against Allah and the Ummah``...... so on second thought, stay out of it ......... i am sure i can somehow manage to get the grammarian temporal to take the fall for me - he deserves to be burned at the stake for his own little inquisiton of bad writers.

Temporal and Grand Inquisitor Tahmed

``Insan`` is one way to describe humanity, but it is the other meaning that i was referring to. Insan can be, and usually is, quite devoid of humanity.

Think about it: people who preach ``consideration`` and ``respect`` for other people`s ``feelings`` base their lives on a ``deen`` which forces them to teach their children that the Christians and Jews changed ``their`` god`s message, and that the Hindoos are idolators and kafir to begin with.

Organized religion does create all kinds of problems for rational beings like me when we are not under the influence of merlot or macallan. The other day my daughter told me that she got into an argument with a jewish kid over who Abraham was asked to sacrifice - Issac or Ishmael. I deserve these kind of silly questions because I am the one who pays the Qari fifty dollars (real not canadian) an hour to mess with her mind ( and keep Begum Hamid happy ). But anyway .... you must be wondering what was my answer to her. I said , ``We believe that it was Ishmael`` - the emphasis being on ``we``. So the precocious eight year old says, `` does that mean that they are wrong.``. By this time the wife has her ears perked up, so with all the force I can muster, I say, `` No! WE believe it was Ishmael, and THEY believe it was Issac, and let us leave it at that - and don`t you ever think that someone has to be wrong in order for you to be right `` ......... actually I can`t wait for her to grow up so that I can tell her what I really think !

I am glad to report she is fine ....... Mrs Hamid, however, is kind of worried about whether her nikah is valid ! Maybe Urstruly or Naqshbandi can issue a fatwa on this subject.

Now, if you will excuse me I would like to go back to using dots, dropping the punctuation and not capitalizing what i feel does not need to be capitalized ...... this is killing me ..... there is something cathartic about letting the pure unadulterated stuff flow straight from your warped mind, through your formerly nicotine-stained fingers, into the keyboard and out into cyber space ........

Dear Temporal,t-bhai (as Scout would say) nice try, but I have to say this, very sorry...., but, but hamidm is still the master, emperor, lord of dots..please tahmed...leave hamidm alone..let him pick who/what he wants to pick on...let him use his keyboard without any censorship..so long.

HamidM #97

Pehle Aap Ne Pakistan Mein Kia Put Lia.

Islam Ke Saye Mein Tijorion Pe Tijorian Bhur Gayen. Baqol Ibn-e-Insha ``Khushali Ka Itna Dor Dora Hua Ke Log Sona Uchalte Mulk Ke Eik Kone Se Doosre Kone Nikal Jate Aur Koi Poochne Wala Naa Tha. Balke Baaz To Sona Uchalte Hue Doosre Mulk Nikal Jate.``

So lets continue with discussion.

The Pakistani whose milk teeth are still intact and are living in Utopia called America. Let them be saviour of God.

I am believer in Abdul Mutallib. When Abraha was about to attack Kaaba and captured his camels. He as a leader of Quraish talked to him regarding return of camels. When Abraha asked you did not ask me to refrain from attacking House of God and instead are demanding camels. Muttallib said` House of God belongs to God and HE will take care of it. Camels belong to me, so I have to take care of them.

As you know there is no Army on Chowk to hang you in the Name of God.

And the army of milk toothed still have a right to speak.

If we can read one liner from Sadhna Jay etc. Muslim one liners also have a right.

In defense of hamidm:

Thought would never have to see this day...no... not referring to that mention of your well loved daughters as a chunnoo/munnoo...something else bothered me today...straight out of the left field... and a yaar suggested to come here and indulge in some senator or was he congressman? ...cathartism...so dutifully...oh I have so much respect and love for this yaar...hum such boltay haiN...here I am...and what do I find here...you alongwith ``dot dot, merlot-lovers(for the record both you and jawahara ---my comments in parentheses), jehadis, fanatics, liberals, seculars, fundamentalists, and conservatives``... and phaja of wink-wink mandi... Bandu’s third cousin from his father’s seventh wife’s step mother’s side (oh that is another story) masquerading as Karachi’s Bundoo...Allama Iqbal’s loyal servant Imam Din’s (?) adopted wife’s son from the third marriage...sorry.. make that ‘adopted’ appear before the son...Jawaid’s bootlegger...Zia’s mujawar ..sure he must have a mujawar...I mean if there is Jabra Shareef there has to be a salaana Urs and those charas (tauba tauba) and bhang (do they merit one tauba or two?) sessions alongwith fine qawwalis -- like Fareed (mota and marhoom)and Maqbool (chota) Sabri’s immortal rendition ( have it on tape -- will auction it to highest silent bidder) describing when the Prophet was born ----”Hoorain naachiN, chum chumma chum...” --- and we heard it and enjoyed this before we knew what mujrah was which was before we learned how to spell it which was before we saw one which was before Muzaffar Ali’s version of Umrao Jaan Ada --- you know the one mis-labelled as Rekha’s Umrao Jaan ---and incidentally would you care to know that they have discovered that MaaNg-l’aye-thay-chaar-din Zafar’s grave in that forsaken city formerly known as Rangoon .... and now they lay those chadors and have salaana Urs at his old, permanet but recently discovered grave?...now how to tie this back to the mother of all sweeps -- heheh.. am not referring to anyone here --- just how to tie this sweep back to your inclusion in that unholy alliance that includes all save one or perhaps if I am charitable those two gentle folks?...well I protest my one solitary vote .. raise this hand...O duniya walo!.... notice lay lo!.. I protest...haaN yeh zul’m hay!... Naa insaafi hay!...Yeh ghalat jhaRRoo hay...aur baaqi sub logouN kay saath ziyadti hay...agar hamid nay khuda ka naam liya tha... tou ilzaam srif hamid ki hud tuk hee mehdood rehna chahiyay...baqi duniya tou khuda ka ehteraam karti hay...oos kay rasoolouN say ish’q karti hay...aakhir may my lord oon baaqiyouN ka kya kusoor tha....baqiyoon ko (thumping on the desk) is ilzaam say barri kya jai mylord... aur is hamid ko aisi ibrat naak saza di jaa’ye keh rehti duniya oos ki mashkoor ho...jis kitab maiN baar baar likha hay paRRho, ghoure karo, amal karo oos ka yeh joor’m na-qaabil-e-qubool hay...and before you punish him let us hear from Begum Hamid also... she has the right to submit a statement as the most aggrieved party...how can anyone waltz with a fine single malt .... oh no he was accused of being a merlot lover ... that is even worse...and preach about striving to be an insaan first ...naoozobillah .... is say tou hum paidaishi musallman hee achchay haiN...:)

Tahmed:
[All posts that I have read or I haven`t read]

Please do care to state your perspective, whether someone likes it or not. After all, when we can hear the woes of chunnoo munnoo, dot dot, merlot-lovers, jehadis, fanatics, liberals, seculars, fundamentalists, and conservatives - why not your reasonable voice? Please continue.

Continue!!!

Regards.