They Changed My God

I believe in God but I question his motives when I see a suffering little baby, a child who can`t walk because he`s debilitated by cancer, a victim of sexual/child abuse...etc..

Yes, God is ever-so-present in happiness and all happy things like children playing in the park, roses in bloom, whatever...

But this same God is responsible for them dying and suffering.

Mullahs, priests, and rabbis have no answer, they all say the same thing: You can`t question God`s ways, it was meant to happen.

Yasser # 39

Shaabash. That is like an intelligent child.

adnan # 28

God wants a pluralistic world. Otherwise, since God is supposed to be the provider and all powerful, he would have ensured 1400 years ago that among all those who refuse to turn to new faith, men become impotent and women become barren. World would have become one following one faith in 100 years. Then God would not have to go through cruel and sadistic path of `slaying the unbelievers`. Since this has not happened that shows God is happy to have people coming to him taking different paths.

Answer to Adnan 672

Surat Maidah 5:69

``Lo those who believe, and those who are jews, and Sabeans(Star Worshippers), and Christians- whosoever believeth in God and the last day and does the righteous deed- there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve``

As we can see there is no mention of monotheism, or Islam being the only right course... as a matter of fact star worshippers, the Sabeans (As Sabaoun) etc are being promised heaven.

Anwar Iqbal,

May Allah bless you! You have shone ... and in you, I hope people will see their reflection ...

I would love to see the Urdu Version of this poem ...

Keep up the good work.

YLH

Dear Editor

What a beautiful poem? And I am sure it is thousand times more beautiful in Urdu. Has the poem been published? If not is it possible to get a copy of the original in Urdu. I would be grateful for any help in this respect.

Thanks

rsridhar #367 you seem very unhappy my friend. try not to be childish about pakistan getting all this press coverage and not india, and musharaff getting interviewed and not vajpayee. remind yourself that india and pakistan are not playing a zero-sum game, and if things start to look up for pakistan that is good for everyone in the subcontinent. this is a friendly piece of advice that is ultimately to your own benefit, so please dont come back trying to show how i have misunderstood the reasons behind your peevishness.

Godot,

``Religion is the backbone of civilization``

I disagree... religion is the backbone of culture.

Civilization is one... it is the human civilization, this human civilization is divided into various nations, based on three main criteria...

1) Language

2) Common Culture : Customs religious beliefs

3) common Education.

Now if you wanna argue ``multi-sub-civilizational`` world.. then let me line up the Pakistan ...or what it ideally should be in order to have a logical identity (that is if being the citizen of that state is not good enough)...

1) Language : Urdu

2) Culture : Muslim

3) Sub-Civ : South Asian

Let us rise above the discourse of the nation .. for I am sure we are conciously or subconciously aware of our national and Sub National groups (I am a Pakistani Muslim for example)... and concern ourselves first and foremost with the state....

``You are free- You are free to go to your temples.

You are free to go to your mosques or anyother place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed, that has nothing to do with the business of the state.

In time, the Hindu community will vanish and the Muslim Community will vanish, not in a religious sense, but in a political sense and we shall all become equal citizens of one state.``

(Jinnah : 11th August 1947 )

The abovementioned should be our constitution`s preamble, our nation-state`s ideal, and the end product of a struggle for equality.

Pakistan Zindabad

Omar #19

You say,``Imagine the athiest who thinks the same way. Why would you want to go out of your way to help someone else if it hinders your own being? Athiesm in my opinion breeds selfishness where one works for their own self. That is then surely wrong.

``

I must say you have raised a very profound question. That prompts me to think if the origin of virtues in human beings related to the concept of God and by extension, religion. If you talk of the present world, the answer would be in part, yes. I think a lot of people are ``moral`` and do good because of their belief in God. But at the same time there are a number of athiests/agnostics who are also virtuous people by conventional standards. Thus the question echoes:- Is there any concept of virtues without bringing a supernatural force like God into the picture. In other words, can the set of moral values, altruistic behaviour etc. evolve in a society without any reference to God. Below is my analysis:

The daily interactions of an individual with the society can be broadly classified into zero sum games and the non zero sum games. In ZSG(zero sum game), your loss is my win and vice-versa, while in a NZSG both the parties may have a win-win situation if they choose to coperate. I must mention that in most of the cases, being ZSG/NZSG is a property of a situation. ``Prisoner`s dilemma`` is a classical example of a non zero sum game in which the ``welfare`` of both the prisoners is maximised when they choose to cooperate and ``trust`` each other. In general, it is observed that while a ``cooperative approach`` is better suited in non zero sum games, people tend to take a ``competitive approach`` in a ZSG intended to optimise one`s own ``welfare`` at the cost of other. Remember in both the approaches, it is the self interest that prompts a person to adopt a cooperative/competitive posture.

Now the so called ``set of high values`` like trust, honesty,truth etc are favoured by the nature in a ``cooperative approach``, in general

and hence their evolution. Obviously one can not coperate with another unless both develop trust and believe in the honesty and truthfullness of the other. However ``competitive approach`` in many cases tends to favour breach of trust, falsehood etc. Thus the kind of value system that evolves over time in a society is the result of interplay of these forces. The equilibrium at any time is determined by the relative frequency of ZSG(zero sum games) and NZSG that an average person encounters in a day-to- day interaction

with society. I suspect the need for survival of an average human being results in higher frequency of daily life situations which are NZSG in nature, such that a coperative approach favours him more than competitive approach in general. In such a case, the universal value set of truth, honesty etc would spontaneously evolve catalysed by the global optimisation of everybody`s needs. And this would happen even without any concept of God.

But my above hypothesis also predicts that if the situations change in such a manner that the frequency of ZSG games becomes higher, the present value system may as well erode giving way to falsehood, deceit etc. This is probably what is happening in today`s world when the person is less dependent upon society for its survival and hence ZSG are increasing in frequency.

Always keep in mind, it is the global optimisation of needs that

determines a value system.





Sincerely

Dear Iqbal:

Your god is already with you since you could write this poem so beautifully. Reading morning newspaper has become a sadest event of my daily chores, when a desperate feeling of losing God overshadows the mind while reading about widespread destruction, hate and horror all over the world. Then, the God comes back either in a form of a beautiful poetry as you have written, or at the sight of the playground full of children`s laughter. We all want our Gods back for all 24 hours, all 365 days, and all years! Not just for those fractional moments.

Regards

Re: Omarphoenix

You raise some valid points. I will try to respond with my opinions.

``I personally believe that Athiesm is destructive in the long term because an athiest society relies solely on the individual`s own `goodness` to work.``

An educated, prosperous, and safe man will be as good without religion as he might with it. The key is to create a society where we don`t push people to desperation - when we do that, even religion can`t save an individual.

``For me the ultimate trophy is Heaven and without this aim or the concept that my existence is non eternal, I personally would not see a point in living (which I know sounds a bit extreme).``

The only point life can have is to enjoy it while you are alive and understand as much as possible about the world around you (the quest for knowledge). There really is no point beyond that.

``Athiesm in my opinion breeds selfishness where one works for their own self. That is then surely wrong.``

I know many atheists who do go out of their way to help others. Further, there was a study mentioned in the New York Times recently that atheists are no more likely to commit crimes than anyone else.

Eklayva #18

I don`t know you are a Muslim or not. But you reached a correct conclusion. 1- Direct relation with God 2- Equality of human beings. Add to it monotheism i.e Belief in One God.

If people start with basic as in any subject they will not err.

But as with every religion, Islam has been abused throughout history for personal gains by hijacking the God. And bringing HIS real intentions by people calling themselves scholars. To the point that only they can understand the message of God even when the message of God is already present in front of everyone.

There are interesting examples. On Bamiyan idol breaking, there are much discord among Muslims regarding whether it is Islamic or not. WHAT IS THE REAL INTENTION OF GOD NOBODY CAN TELL.

So it is true that God has been hijacked. We can either curse the hijackers or curse God depending upon ones perspective.

I choose to curse the hijackers. And believe me their judgement is also with God as others.

Godot #

Conveniently forgotten Ayah regardingjews and christians which are in two places in Quran are:

(meaning)

Whether a jew or christian or Sabian or believer, who ever believes in God and do good has his reward from God.

Eklavya #18, `` Why is it that when all other religions are trying to be more Islam-like (at least in these two regards) Islam seems bent upon abandoing its core principles?``

Islam has caught a contagious disease called fundamentalism, promoted by hypocritical bigots called Mullahs, who are basically leeches upon the body of Islam, draining it of it`s beauty and livelihood.

It`s the sad awful truth.

But I sincerely believe that these Mullahs and fanatics will be eradicated or self destruct because this world isn`t made for people like them.

Nice, fair, post by the way. It`s nice to see someone think clearly and respectfully about a religion.

ps. i do not mean we turn into intolerant fanatics. Simply there is only ONE true religion (Islam in my view) and the rest of the religions can be well ... tolerated.

adnan

Godot:

``What needs to be stopped is the dangerous thoughts, among the believers, that my God is better than yours, or that your God is false and mine true....``

Then wht u r saying is that we shd condemn all ``organized`` religions? rt?

There can only be one true religion, one which GOD wants us to follow, this line.. it is the love of GOD that matters not how u worship HIM is very old and leads to nonsense like Deen e Illahi of Akbar etc. comments?

and for muslims...

[al-Baqarah 2:120.3] And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting guardian nor helper

[al-Baqarah 2:135.5] And they say: Be Jews or Christians, then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the idolaters.

[al-Ma`idah 5:51.8] O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk

Now can any muslim claim all religions are good?

adnan