The Meaning of Pakistan

Krashid.

its Habari yako, I guess you stayed only a while...so, you say,

``As long as people cannot decide their own fate through their own elected leaders, there is no hope.``

The prerequisite to a successful democracy is people`s education of the situation. You are putting a baseless limit on something that can`t be constrained- Hope. The last thing Pakistan wants is a group of illiterate and gullible public voting for whatever clever politician promises good water, clean clothes and a better life. Or the many sad things you usually point out. Why is it so hard to understand that there needs to be a culture of democracy that must exist, if only a few are willing and contribute opinions again this will be tyranny of those who are able to vote over those who don`t and I am sure in Pakistan the proportion and ratio will be very high, just yet...

I guess I sound like someone who does not believe and trust the people of Pakistan, but the thing is I simply think things happen for a reason, had Pakistan been ready for a direct democracy of proper representation, it would get it. Its not yet time. When there will be enough stem generated we`ll go for it, it`s that simple... and all is not gloom and doom, I think the Pak Army is one of the institutions that function, corruption and all...you can`t award a bad label because the institution of our individualism is lacking far behind... and besides sincerity cannot be held hostage to the veto of a few bad eggs and events...

There was calm when the military took over. People feel more protected somewhat. Pakistan does not claim to be a democracy and be bigoted, it is simply a group of people who till now have no problem with thinking that one authoritative leader can set out the guidelines, they can go along with it, until they feel that something should be changed... perhaps this is our way of approaching democracy...

Mr. Ahmed.

Assalmalaikum.

Glad to read your post... sunna hey app kitab likh rahey hey, ``Pakistan Que Achaa, jub tha mey baccha``?

:)

Wassalam.

Aisha.

In response to Urstruly (Reply # 616)
Dear Urstruly:

Various recent posts, particularly # 600. KRashid is a Karachitte who, as a physican and a human being, has seen a lot of sufferings in Karachi as a result of the overt or covert actions/policies of our centralized, neocolonial, authoritarian, and corrupt state apparatus.

Remember, he does not support the MQM and has been a cosmopolitan Pakistani who does not support narrow-minded localism, sectionalism, and regionalism.

A lot, if not most, Karachittes were once upon a time pretty cosmopolitan in their outlook and they believed strongly in Pakistan without any localism, sectionalism, and regionalism. Do they still believe in the same? I really don`t know. If they don`t, should we try to find out why?

Do we need to understand the processes that are continuously creating difficulties for the unity of Pakistan? One such process consists of the way we tend to intendedly or unintendedly legitimize our dominant discourse that, in my view, needs serious revision.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Bilal # 615

Could you please point me to the particular post from Krashid that you are referring to.

In response to Urstruly (Reply # 609)
Dear Urstruly:

I once wrote: “Pakistan needs to foster an alternative discourse that prioritizes the values of humanity, freedom, justice, and peaceful coexistence.” An alternative to the dominant national/official discourse (for details, see my Chowk article: Pakistan: A Failed State?).

Do you see any vision here? If no, why not? If yes, let me remind you that the struggle for the establishment of the values of humanity, freedom, justice, and peaceful coexistence is not going to be an easy one.

So, we may need to first figure out the ways and means to commence a program of social transformation that is based on a commonly accepted vision as well as the ground realities in Pakistan. Now, as a test, answer some of the complaints/concerns of Krashid. He has identified a few basic grievances with the Pakistani system (whose key actors, in my view, are the power elite). If you don’t provide a satisfactory answer of his questions, I will be forced to say that all your rhetoric of patriotism, optimism, vision, and dreams is nothing but hollow.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

re: ylh # 538

Cool down there Mr. Hamdani...Ms. Sarwari had written an email to me...I replied back...I apologized for some things I said earlier and tried to be nice...I mentioned the ``Hamza`` bit as a joke...I even took her advice about certain things and promised I would abide by them...now for her to first reroute that email to you and for you to then use that email to highlight your heroics on this forum is extremely unethical...I have told you once before on an occassion you will remember very well, that I hate being used...and this is not the first time you have done this...do whatever you want and boast about it wherever you want...you have your ideology and you might have formed it wherever and however...I don`t give a damn anymore...but stop dragging my name into your escapades

``If you are worried about the insults unleashed by me on India as
the ``land of the Sadhus`` .... well I dont thinks its fair, for members
of a highly superstitious creed to accuse others of superstition.
Hence, all I meant was that yes, Pakistan needs to modernize and
do away with the negative aspects of Islam.... but criticism from
Indians is like Kettle calling the pot black.``

What kind of kitten crap is that?...where did that come from?...please enlighten us...oh wait, I forgot, you were just using me as a conduit to unleash whatever is bugging you in the

re: macgupta # 528

``It is true that karma has been misinterpreted to mean fatalism. I
attribute it to the increasing lack of first-hand knowledge of what
our religious texts actually say.``

Tell that to the farmer who strikes his forehead with the palm of his hand, attributing his crop loss to his karma. Imagine the fear in his mind before any action...the questin of good karma or bad karma will be nagging him constantly. and ``increasing lack of first-hand knowledge``?...sir, if you don`t know already, knowledge was the monopoly of the upper castes...the Brahmin would whisper the vedas in each others` ears so that others couldn`t hear them....remember Drona in Mahabharata and what he did to Ekalavya? Please, for India`s sake, lets stop giving apologies for Hinduism and admit a wrong when there is one

regards

Kabuli

Re: Prof. Bilal`s post to Aisha Sarwari

When I have ceased to beat my wings,
Against the fruitlessness of things,
Then life will have shown me the truth,
And taken from me, in exchange, my youth.

Edna St.Vincent Millay

YLH # 603

I can see your lips smiling, stretched from ear to ear. Some dreams are funny ;)

re: macgupta # 526

Krishna said ``Do your duty and do not expect the fruits``

What I say is, I will do my duty and consciously see to it that the fruit is achieved...I will do everything in my power to achieve the result...to hell with the disappointment on being unsuccessful...how will you know that disappointment if you haven`t given your everything?...I will not say``I did what I had to do and it is upto God now``...that line of thinking encourages a kind of laziness in that there is no 100 % effect...Krishna`s sermon is fine on paper, but does not translate into action in real life. This laziness is visible for everyone in India.

regards

Kabuli

Ref: Sarwari # 585

Dear Prof. Bilal

What did I tell ya? This is the stuff our new generation is made of. Despite all the hardships our country is facing, and despite all the prophecies of doom and gloom the new Men and Women can see clearly what lies ahead. Bilal! despite our experiences we lacked that vision and that optimism. Did you see the vision and insight in # 585? That is the power of dream; that is how the things are gotten done; that is the way it is gonna be; that is the direction and that is our destiny.

Sarwari:

Never ever under-estimate the power of dream. All the sky-scrapers you see around you, the highways and turnpikes, the roaring shuttles, the flying jets, the republics, and the prosperity of mankind, all were once a dream. Someone imagined them first. Thats the power of dream.

re: RSaxena # 525

It seems I`ve touched a raw nerve somewhere...as long as Hinduism and Sikhism were alike, sab kuch theek thaak, as soon as I give some facts about the relation of Sikhism and Islam, why this hostility?...really Mr. Saxena, I`m disappointed with this childish behavior.

In any case, here is my explanation:

I said the theory of Karma hasn`t held Sikhs back because there is no institutionalized caste in Sikhism...the result of this is that no upper-caste can tell a lower-caste that it is because of the lc`s karma in his previous life that he was born a lc and he should lift and carry the doodoo of the world because he was a bad boy in his previous life.

``Let`s not get carried away making silly blanket statements like
that. Sikhs are decent folks in general but I can list a few things
they too can change. No religion or group of people is
perfect...some are less perfect than others.``

You seem to think that I am a typical wide-eyed convert who claims to see the light because of his new religion...thankfully, I don`t think I am...I am aware of the deficiencies in Sikhism...I`ve written about them on this forum too...I want to break the stranglehold that Punjabi culture has on Sikhism...the Gurus belong to all humanity (Indians in particular) and Punjabis should not claim monopoly over them...Sikhism is an INDIAN religion in the sense that its philosophy has sprouted from INDIAN thought...we don`t owe allegiance to a foreign land or tribe...we are our own masters...there are other faults in Sikhism which I`ll discuss with you via email (my address is veerbhagat@hotmail.com) if you like but it is the best option India has, according to me...your suggestions with regard to Sikhism are more than welcome...no religion can survive if it cannot evolve.

``the caste system has
nothing to do with Hinduism``

I don`t think you understand the implications that caste has for the vast majority of Indians...inspite of our glorious constitution, the effect of caste is still felt...it is a double edged sword...because of affirmative action, the worthy don`t get what they deserve and still, inspite of this, the LCs still wallow in poverty, degradation and filth...21 governors in India are Brahmin...why is that?...try taking a bus in rural India and see all the kids with matted hair playing on the roads half-naked...and ask yourself when will they have the chances that you or I had...when will they rise out of the ashes?...why am I saying all this?...because I think the cause for their misery is caste...from his birth, every Hindu feels the impact of caste...be it his birth certificate, the temple, his friends and relatives, his wife, stretch bearers etc...how will we have nationhood if caste permeates every aspect and sphere of our lives?...caste is evil and it is given sanction by Hinduism...read Manusmriti...it is a vile, prejudiced, and bigoted book and is the source of Hindu Law...I felt sick to my stomach when I read it...I immediately went to my parents and confronted them as to why we were still following Hinduism, a religion that calls them, their ancestors and their children by the most foul words...they tried to give some explanation which I did not buy...I think they are afraid of facing the stigma of leaving Hinduism...this is natural and faced by people of all religions...but to cover our eyes and live a life of shame and dishonour should not be the lot of the vast majority of Indians...take the beautiful hill temple of Tirumala for example...before the puja, the head priest is not supposed to be touched by anybody...all the devotees are asked to move away so that he is not defiled by their touch...after the pooja, when we came out, the same filthy SOB was giving his blessings to devotees for a price...it was 20 rupees I believe...and there were fools who were happy to lighten their purse for that harami`s vile hands` touch...or take the priest at Bridgewater temple in NJ for example...what prompted the guy to ask me what my caste is?...and ask yourself if any of the above will happen in a Gurudwara...we all know about stories of how Vishwamitra could change his caste from a Kshatriya to a Brahmin...first of all those two are privileged castes (who are a comparatively small minority in India today) and in any case, it doesn`t happen much anywhere else...all this bull about ``twisted misinterpretation of Hindu
scripture rooted more in soci-economic problems`` is as much BS as some Muslim saying that the history of Islam is not violent. It is apologetic crap and an attempt at revision of history. You cannot have the cake and eat it too...This has happened...people have suffered for millenia and it is about time we had enough of it...and it is possible and legal in India too...no govt. can call us apostates and disinherit our rights like what we see in our neighbourhood...the constitution of India gives Indians the right to search for a better life and the govt. has no say in the matter...lets face it man, Hinduism, inspite of all the reform movements seems incapable of cleaning itself...even Lingayats, a most liberal Hindu sect initially, which renounced caste, has relapsed into casteism...


``...to my country and my people, I pledge my devotion...in their well-being and prosperity, alone lies my happiness...Jai Hind``

remember those words?...well I donot see well-being and prosperity for India in casteist Hinduism...I want Indians to achieve what is their due...for too long have they suffered, believing it to be their fate, their karma...I want to see my country happy and proud...I do not want the stigma of caste weighing down on the backs of my countrymen...I want to wipe it away from the face of India...and I believe I can and I will.

``By the way, I remember you saying a while back that you were
interested in Vajpayee`s job some day.``

I don`t need the job if it can`t help my countrymen...I could care less for power...I can improve the lot of my countrymen with my pen and my speech too


``drop this obsession with religion and the
intricacies of Sikhism vs. Hinduism vs. Islam and so on. The India
of the future will completely separate religion and state (I
hope) ``

Since the very beginning of India`s consciousness, India has practiced religion and has believed in God...it will always remain a part of us...I do not think India will ever become atheist...separation of religion and state is different from separation of God and soul


``I don`t even want to know what religion a leader
belongs to and the day he/she decides to share a sermon, I`ll take
my vote back. ``


Most people benefitting from the status-quo will never want to give it up...and that is natural...but the vast majority of Hindus don`t and it is for them that I speak...every Indian is welcome, but if they don`t like what I have to say, they don`t have to listen or agree with me...I`m not forcing anybody...and I am not criticizing Hindu religious practice either...my battle is against caste and its effects on India...what other option do we have?

regards

Kabuli

re: rsridhar # 522

There is a school of thought that says that Sankara`s advaita was influenced by Arab traders in Kerala

Regarding Advaita, it is so difficult a concept for the common man, that he goes and takes the advice of some sage, priest etc....this is where manipulation comes in and the whole cycle of oppression continues

regards

Kabuli

Harimau #577

No sir I am not capable of thinking that Sita came out of fire unhurt and that proved she was innocent and ``Fire`` film was that subtle message.

But continue to post. I am learning little bit about your religion through your post.

As far as you have no time for web to extract the history visit answering islam dot.com. It will give you enough unauthetic history for your whole life to post. (But don`t discuss and make a fool of yourself with no references) Learn with Sadhna, aka MSarwar and Mohajir cut and paste job. It is easy to use right hand button with cut and paste job.

Sarwari sorry to ask you.

Abari Ako.

or Apali Ako.

When I was very young, I spend some time in Kenya.

Siraj #576

First change your name.

Your name with your post make it more ``Makrooh`` or loathsome.

Second is the legend about Hanuman true or false. Do you know?

Third the age of Ayesha RZAH was 9 and it was a proper marriage, according to custom of the time with the consent of the family of the bride. There is no point in harping on a thing which you don`t know much about.

Rsaxena,

I highly doubt people will classify such a union as unholy. :)

-YLH