The Meaning of Pakistan

Ref ali1 #: 428

[May the BJP wallahs do to you what Hanuma did to

Seeta.]

I guess you are referring to the earlier crap you have posted about Hanuman having sex with Seeta.

Let us not get into legends. Instead, let us look at history.

Isn`t it true that Muhammed`s wife Ayesha was accused of adultery after Muhammed`s death?

Was a trial ever held? Were 4 Muslim male witnesses to the act of penetration produced before the Islamic judge? Was Ayesha stoned to death (that would have been paying back Mohammed in his own coin for his barbaric laws) or was she simply beheaded?

Who was Ayesha accused of having sex with? And what do you guys actually expect, if she was widowed at around age 20, do you actually expect her to abstain from sex just because Muhammed said no one should marry his wives after his death?

Did Ayesha leave behind any hadith on Muhammed`s sexual habits? I understand she is held in high esteem because she is supposed to have remembered details of Muhammed`s life, her memory being considered the best on account of her youth. Would her recollections be part of the hadiths or the Sunnah?

Kabuliwallah # Various

SSA .. thanks for your wonderful posts, especially # 355 .. more on this topic some other time .. regards.

In response to Urstruly (Reply # 567)
Dear Urstruly:

Ms. Sarwari is an enthusiastic, educated, budding scholar and with considerable leadership qualitities.

But, how is your post related to the spirit and/or content of my post? The personality of Ms. Sarwari is not an issue, as far as I am concerned.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

ahmadb # 566

What is a man without passion; without a burning desire that burns him inside out and from outside in, to rise above and to puruse his destiny and the glory that is rightfully his? A tree trunk-waiting to be cut down by someone or being rendered hollow by the termites?

I tell you Sir, this lady, Ms. Sarwari, knows how to talk and how to lead-she has all the ingredients of a natural born leader.

In response to sarwari (Reply # 554)
Dear Aisha, Assalam-o-Alaikum:

My lifetime experience suggests that we need to adopt a more soft/flexible outlook toward the hard realities of our existence. I, therefore, avoid using words like “hate”, “condemn”, and “proud” because all of these are expressions of intense feelings which may or may not represent the actual reality.

If I say that I am proud of Pakistan, I should be able to inform clearly the basis of my pride. In my view, it is not sufficient to be proud of Pakistan because I or you come from Pakistan and/or hold a Pakistani passport.

Pakistan is a “nation in hope” which is struggling to become a “nation in being”. In organized modern societies, one important first step in this struggle is to recognize the centrality of human dignity. A second major step is to figure out the ways and means to implement the citizenship and human rights of both individuals and collectivities. A third major step is to implement such rights.

Great people are those who not only make significant strides for establishing their dignity but empathize with others in their struggle for the same.

Aisha, I am glad that: (1) you have positive feelings for your two year long stay in Karachi; and (2) you think that your citizenship rights are/were protected in Pakistan. I am sure that you don’t want me to assume that your experience is shared by most citizens of Karachi/Sindh/Pakistan etc. Please refer to my post regarding the arrests of the Alliance for the Restoration of Democracy. Kindly tell us what you think about it. What is “The Meaning of Pakistan” for those who want to use their political right to protest but fail due to some colonial laws and practices?

What do you mean by the statement that “the scale of human rights violations in Pakistan are polar though they are not extreme.” Are you comparing the situation in Pakistan with some of Pakistan’s neighboring countries (like Afghanistan, Iran, India, Sri Lanka, etc.)?

Aisha, you maintain: “What we could do about it is first make ourselves capable enough to have a view of the entire situation, pick out what is the need of the time, list our strengths and weaknesses and attach our life to some cause... plan, build and move...” This is a good abstract statement. Now, kindly explain it in more concrete terms.

Aisha, you maintain: “Islamic republic? I don`t think there is much of a difference between some people`s concept of an Islamic republic and Hindutva Politics, both are wrong...however it would be an ideal situation for Pakistan to retain the name ``Islamic`` and still be a great example of what the Islam of progress and prosperity that I believe it is... in a truly secular sense...in which the state of mind of minorities is a matter of prime honor and not dishonor...” Are you suggesting that an Islamic Republic need not be based on a theocratic state? If yes, what is the possibility of various religious political parties/organizations to agree with your position? What kind of risks does your proposal entail?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

ps It is true that I havent read a post on this forum by Jay, ... I dont feel the need to.

PM

There shall be no communication about Jay by me in the future, whether or not he presents accurate nuggets of information is pointless... the truth is that he is out malign Pakistan, without any apparent reason. The problems that he mentions are not unique to Pakistan, and I assure you we can say out loud a lot of things about India too, but we are not obsessed with India, as Jay is with Pakistan.

Pakistan Zindabad

YLH

Farangi Kush,

Thanks for gracing your comments on this post, where were you all this time? You are right about koknis being very strict about not letting their girls marry out... I am so glad my Mother broke that senseless tradition.

Scout,

thanks for your positive tone too... match made in heaven? me and you, you mean ;) just kidding.

Aisha

ylh: #556

I find your response to jay`s #548 almost incredible. Maybe your peception of him as a Pak-hater prevents you from reading what he writes -- or understanding what he means.

I would strongly urge you to re-read #548, trying to ignore WHO the poster was. If you still don`t feel any differntly about it, still feel it is derisive of either Pakistan or yourself, I`d be interested to know why.

rgds,

PM

P.S. Do also ponder on Krashid`s words on optmism. Every now and then he spouts some real wisdom.

Re: Sarwari #554

Thank you for that post. I thought I remembed you writing once words to the effect of rejecting other identities (Indian) and choosing to become a Pakistani. I`m glad to see that my mind isn`t completely gone (no thanks to Glenmorangie, my favorite single-malt Scotch, eh, Ms. Scout!).

Re: YLH #520

Yasser,

I believe that the Moghul emperor who reigned from 1759 to 1806 is usually referred to as `Shah Alam II` since the full regnal name of Bahadur Shah I (reigned 1707-1712)was `Shah Alam Bahadur Shah,` generally referred to as just Bahadur Shah I.

Regards.

sarwari #554, ``What we could do about it is first make ourselves capable enough to have a view of the entire situation, pick out what is the need of the time, list our strengths and weaknesses and attach our life to some cause... plan, build and move...``

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

It`s refreshing to see a patriotic positive Pakistani female here.

There`s too much negativity going around.

On another note, I see a match made in heaven on this forum. :)

ahem ahem

Mohtramma Ayesha Sarwari,

I am aware that you are in your twenties but after reading your excellent article & your subsequent parrying of posts,I really want to show my regards & respect to you in my salutation.

Needless to point out that I happen to be one of those who are responsible for the farangi-infested Pakistan of today.

You,YLH,Zahra,t-ahmed,krashid,urstruly,sigalph,rjanjua,assad-k,aamir,adnan and so many others have graced this site and made it ba-barkat & blessed.

Thank you!

wassalaam.

PS:I have a distinct feeling that your relatives were so possessive NOT because of their Indian-ness but because of their kokni roots.I am told that the koknis are very very reluctant to let one of their girls marry outside koknis.

Also I have tremendous respect for their scholarly work in arabie & islam.Quazi KabeeruDDIn is one of the several giants who come to mind right away because I knew his daughter a few years before her death.I was given a few books from his collection.I have been told about the great library in Bombay,he endowed,is an unpararreled instituition.

__________________________________________________

In response to sarwari (Reply # 554)
Dear Aisha, Assalam-o-Alaikum:

I am glad to see your response to my post. This is just an acknowledgment that I have read it. Additional thoughts, later (after a more careful reading).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Jay,

For a ``mature`` person, you display such immaturity which is unimaginable.

Sigalph,

As a student of Modern Turkish History, I see an echo of Ataturk in the actions of Musharaff. Undoubtedly Qaid`s ideals of Democracy and Constitutionalism are higher, but in the absence of

the great Qaid, and also the lack of integrity evident in our politicians, I believe that an Ataturk is the need of the hour.

After all even in Ottoman Turkey, Midhat Pasha and his idealism were silenced, but the spark that remained gave birth to great men like Enver and Ataturk... and great revolutions like the Young Turks Rev. and then the Turk Nationalist Revolutions.

-YLH

On Pakistan National Day:

Congratulations to all.

May you also contemplate how a Hindu or Sikh living in Lahore would feel about a self-conscious Islamic nationalism rising in his home-town.