The Meaning of Pakistan

Rsaxena and Scout:

Just curious why there is complete silence from you guys on Shankar`s post #625.

:-)

--Satyavadi

bahmad# 685

Thanks for your reply. I have never read Chakarbarty but I am familiar with the concept of ``European Provincialism``. I was trying to explore a non-eurpeon point of view on the issue.

In response to tantralogician (Reply # 675)
Dear Friend:

I agree with both Bertrand Russell, a great human being and philosopher, and Pervez Hoodbhoy, a Pakistani jewel. I also agree with you for the need for good education – both access and quality – for our young (and old). However, you need to establish, showing your good scholarship, that Hamza Alavi’s piece reflects his unwarranted bias again Mahatma Gandhi. Please remember I have respect for both Gandhiji and Hamzaji. I do, however, have problem with the kind of language you used for Mr. Jinnah and for Alavi’s piece. In sum, I suggest that you write an article for the Chowk critiquing Hamza Alavi’s piece.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to Urstruly (Reply # 670)
Dear Urstruly:

Your statement: “How were (Western) Europeans able to settle their territorial disputes all of a sudden after 1945. Was the threat of Communism a common denominator? Is this period of calm since 1945 superficial? Is there a chance that the issues like Balkan in 90`s may rear their heads. Is it the nuclear deterrent that has brought peace to the nations who were always in a state of war with each other until `45 like Russia, Germany, France, and England.”

My reply: This is a very broad topic. The experience of World War I and W. W. II (including the use of nuclear bombs). The hegemonic designs of the US and the formation of the Western alliance. The United Nations. The Marshall Plan. And, a host of other factors changed the map of Europe and the rest of the World.

Territorial disputes still exist in Western Europe. According to a Scottish friend of mine, Scotland will become an independent state within the next two decades (she is a Scottish nationalist and her research focuses upon the Scottish nationalism). By the way, Scotland has recently devolved from the rest of the UK. Nationalism is an ongoing process. Territories around the World will continue to organize and reorganize, especially due to the continued penetration (and onslaught) of global capital.

Please inform me: What relationship do you see between Chakrabarty’s book and your queries? If there is none, why did you ask these questions?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Please read ``a couple of millenia back`` as `` a couple of million years back`` in my previous note (we like to be scientifically as accurate as possible on chowk).

Harpreet #624 (I think)/Sarwari: Jaambo! Jaambo!! I see we have trodden the same paths in East Africa too. I too have visited Kenya and Uganda a few times on business, and absolutely love those places (excepting the insecurity in Nairobi and the Aids problem in both countries). Why our ancestors chose to leave the perfect weather and beauty of East Africa, as they are supposed to have done a couple of millenia back, for the deserts of the middle east and from there on to other places is a mystery to me. I wont be able to respond soon to anything you may write since I will be ``on the road``, incidentally.

Yes, Ekalavya, what you excerpted struck me too !

Do you think we will ever have a public forum

where we can write so collegially ?

-Arun

Yes, Ekalavya, what you excerpted hit me too !

Do you think we will ever have a public forum

where we can write so collegially ?

-Arun

Response to #666

ahmadb writes:

``Dear Friend: We can`t avoid biased scholarship unless we create the conditions for avoiding it. What measures do we need to adopt in this respect?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad``

Among the first conditions for respectable scholarship is adherence to the ideal of intellectual honesty. Bertrand Russell shrewdly observed that most people form opinions to make themselves feel comfortable and that truth is usually a secondary consideration. Pakistan and Pakistanis have not come to terms with simple historical realities. The slate has to be wiped clean and learning begun anew. It calls for a complete overhaul of the way things are currently in Pakistan. For a start you would do well to listen to the likes of Professor Pervez Hoodbhoy. While one may call into question his opinions on various issues the one thing he needs to be listened to is his prescriptions for Pakistani education and for the training of young Pakistani minds.

tantralogician

Aisha,

Living in San Jose, you shouldn`t have too much difficulty understanding the metaphysical meaning of Pakistan.

You should know that Pakistan has spent its entire life defining itself as ``Not India``.

These efforts have finally borne abundant fruit.

Last Sunday, your local newspaper, The San Jose Mercury News, carried stories on India which covered an entire section. These news-stories, written by the correspondent of the Christian Science Monitor, contrasted the lives of three school-age girls, one from upper-class Delhi, another from lower-middle class Bombay, and the third from rural Rajasthan. The lifestyles, aspirations and struggles of these distinct segments of society, and of girls in particular, were discussed without whitewashing any of the issues faced girls or by the rural poor. Overall, a picture of India changing for the better through women`s education emerged from these articles.

Some 2 months ago, there was a similar spread on Pakistan in the same newspaper. All the articles talked about the influence of Osama bin Laden, the various madrassahs, the lack of democracy, etc.

There should be no doubt in anybody`s mind that the longer you hold on to “La ilaha Illallah, Muhaumadur rasulullah” as the foundation of Pakistan, the faster you will be sliding towards the 7th century. Perhaps, it is time to look for a different slogan for public discourse as opposed to private piety.

Ref krashid #: 661

[First you were telling us that this thing was after prophet`s death. Now you are saying that it happened when Prophet PBUH was alive.]

The fact of Ayesha being accused of adultery was repeatedly brought up after Muhammed`s death and was in fact the cause of schism between some of the sects in Islam. That was what I had read earlier and referred to in my post. When I went to do the cut-and-paste job as you suggested, I found that it was Muhammed himself who couldn`t do without his child bride and suddenly had a ``divine revelation``.

Since you are supposed to follow the Sunnah, doesn`t it mean that women accused of adultery in Pakistan should be brought before judges for divine revelation as opposed to being stoned to death? Aren`t you guys being un-Islamic when you put women accused of rape behind bars under the Hudood ordinances?

[You are on right track. There are many facts wrong still. Try to look for it.]

Like what? You mean, I should search the rantings and ravings of some illiterate self-styled mullah to condone the behavior of Muhammed who had ``divine revelations`` to suit himself as opposed to the Encyclopedia Brittannica?

[Then you will learn to respect her.]

I certainly have more respect for her than for Muhammed. I would have even greater respect for her if she had denounced, after Muhammed`s death, Muhammed as a fraud.

scout #: 631

``Kabulliwallah or whoever can anser this question,

Why do Sikh men have such great voices?``

What a boost!

:-)

Because we have Punjabi Soul........

regards

Harpreet

re sarwari #618

Perhaps you will recall what the first Republican President of the United States had to say about the idea of conditional democracy:

``No man is good enough to govern another without the latter`s consent``.

I am not sure that Abraham Lincoln would have predicated that inalienable right on education or literacy.

In my early and mid teens I was a great enthusiast of Gen Ershad, a Pervez Musharraf type saviour of Bangladesh. He removed crooked politicians and did a lot of commonsense and great things. I still respect the him a lot; but as a collateral of his ten year rule (he promised the same nonsense that Ayub, Iskander Mirza, and Ziaul Haque did about leaving power in 90 days etc), the maturation of the nascent democratic culture in Bangladesh was set back significanly. In retrospect, as someone who has taught politics at US colleges in the past, I suspect that the trade-off between Ershad`s `clean up` of the system and democratic development did more harm than good. On the 30th anniversary of Bangladesh, I cannot but wonder if the `saviour on horseback` syndrome has served her well at all.

I have no intention of changing your opinion because they change only gradually and with time, but this may be perspective you keep on the plate.

bahmad # 665

(or your reply to Gupta)

Bilal!

How were (Western) Europeans able to settle their territorial disputes all of a sudden after 1945. Was the threat of Communism a common denominator? Is this period of calm since 1945 superficial? Is there a chance that the issues like Balkan in 90`s may rear their heads. Is it the nuclear detterrent that has brought peace to the nations who were always in a state of war with each other until `45 like Russia, Germany, France, and England.

CORRECTION # 668

Please read: ``Foucault argues that ``discourse`` or ``discursive formation`` reflects the belief that knowledge is deeply enmeshed in power, truth always being a social construct`` as:

In Foucault`s problematic ``discourse`` or ``discursive formation`` refelects the belief that knowledge is deeply enmeshed in power, truth always being a social construct.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to Fuzair (Reply # 667)
Dear Fuzair:

Discourse theory uncovers meaning in objects and practices: (1)by recognizing their discursive character, and (2)by analyzing the part they play in particular discourses within a wider framework of meaning.

Foucault argues that ``discourse`` or ``discursive formation`` reflects the belief that knowledge is deeply enmeshed in power, truth always being a social construct.

Hence, discourse theory recognizes that: (1)meaning is not implicit in social objects and practices but is historically and political constructed; (2) it can uncover social anatagonisms and struggles for hegemony.

Now, could we distinguish between ``avoidable`` and ``not so avoidable`` biases? Should we care about the issues of truth and falsity? If yes, how could/should we address them?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad