The Meaning of Pakistan

Scout # 178

That is the price any nation pays for the continuing ignorance and bigotry of its people: it can lose some of its best citizens.

Although you underrate yourself - I think you would have done very well in India or anywhere else - I do see your point. Emotional confidence and satisfaction is key to human achievement, and for many Muslims it certainly is easier to attain that in Pakistan than in India.

Cheers.

concerned #184

Think of these things in evolutionary terms. We began with an extreme situation in which the nation had to be cut up, and people were left scarred with the memories of millions of deaths - all of which they blamed on the `other community.`

It takes time to move forward and away from that kind of situation. Muslims who stayed behind in India made a commitment to India, no matter what a few muslims and hindus may continue to feel.

People like faruk are our most important hope because they signal to us that we are not chasing an impossible dream, only a difficult one. That is, we are doing at least some things right. As time passes, we will have more faruks - strong individuals proud of their country and their religion, and seeking to live with members of other communities in peace.

Neither Hindu fanatics nor people who keep Pakistani flags in their homes make things easy for us. But we must persevere.

ROmair :

Regional variation within India should also be considered. The following is something that I scanned in to text around 1991.

-Arun Gupta

[The following is taken from ``The Muslim Situation in India``, edited by Iqbal Ansari, which is a publication of a seminar held by the Institute of Objective Studies in New Delhi, July 4-5, 1987.]

* * * * * *

Educational Landscape of Tamil Nadu: Muslim Contribution.

by N.A. Ameer Ali

(General Secretary, All India Muslim Educational Society, Tamil Nadu Unit.)

* * * * *

[Note: Statistics relating to Tamil Nadu as given in different parts of the book are as follows:



In 1981, there were 2.5 million Tamil Muslims, forming 5.2% of the state`s population.

The districts in Tamil Nadu, in 1981, that had more than 5% Muslim population were:

Nilgir (9.7% of a total population of 0.63 million),



Madras (8.1%, 3.3 million),

Thanjavur (7.0%, 4.1 million),



Tirunelveli (6.9%, 3.6 million),



North Arcot (6.9%, 4.4 million),

Ramanathapuram(6.8%, 3.3 million) and



Puddukottai (6.6%, 1.2 million).

----

A national survey of school enrollment gives data for three districts in Tamil Nadu as follows:

Elementary school enrollment 1980-81 (Class I - VIII)

%Muslim pop. Total enrolment %Muslim enrolment

Kanyakumar district 4.28% 3,02,936 6.17%

Madurai 4.54 6,75,160 5.50%

Nilgiri 9.66 73,999 7.77

-----

A national survey of graduate level exams (B.A./B.Sc./B.Com) 1981 gave for Tamil Nadu:

Madras:

Appeared: 33,538

Muslim : 2,206

% : 6.58%

Passed : 19,835

Muslim : 1,294

% : 6.52%



A similar survey of post-graduate level exams (M.A./M.Sc./M.Com) 1981

Madras:

Appeared: 5,314

Muslim : 377

% : 7.09%

Passed : 3,540

Muslim : 277

% : 7.82%

]

-----

Now, the essay:

The All India Muslim Educational Conference held at Madras in the year 1901 caused a mild stir in the minds of Muslims of Tamil Nadu, in the sense that they began to think of exploring avenues of education for their progeny. The Muslim Educational Association of Southern Indian was born in 1902.

In the decades that followed Muslims were motivated to start a number of educational associations in the cities and towns of Tamil Nadu. The upshot was the establishment of Muslim primary and elementary schools.

Muslims, a community of traders, should have found it not very profitable to send their children to schools. These educational effort would have met a premature death but for the Deccani Muslims who as avid office-goers took to education like ducks to water. This resulted in the growth of Muslim educational institutions in Tamil Nadu.

Besides societies and associations which promote education among Muslims, there were some philanthropists who were responsible for giving a fillip to education. Donors to the cause of education like Kaka Omar (Sr.), Nawab C. Abdul Hakim, Jamal Mohammed, Karutha Rawther, Kader Mohideen, Anaikar Abdul Shukoor, and the doyen of women`s education, Justice Basheer Ahmed Sayeed, set up or caused to set up institutions which are standing monuments to their glory.

Educational institutions run by Muslims in Tamil Nadu fall into the following categories:

1) Religious Arabic Madrasas

2) Oriental Arabic Schools

3) Nursery Schools

4) Elementary Schools

5) Middle Schools

6) High Schools

7) Higher Secondary Schools

8) Arts, Science and Commerce Colleges

9) Engineering Colleges

10)Polytechnics

11)I.T.I.s

12)Teacher training schools

13)Orphanages to which religious Madrasas or schools are attached

All these categories of institutions are meant for girls or boys or both.

Madrasas:

There are about 50 Madrasas in Tamil Nadu, the earliest being the Madrasa Baqiathus Salihath, Vellore, founded in 1884. These Madrasas, organised in a traditional manner, offer a 7-year course leading to Alim. Hifza -- memorization of the Holy Quran -- is also taught to some of the students who have the aptitude for it. For them there is no common curriculum, board of studies, or board of examination in Tamil Nadu.

They do not even meet in a common sports arena. It must be noted here that in Kerala the Dakshina Jamiat-ul-Ulema Sangam prescribes a common curriculum for all the Madrasas in the State.

In almost all of these Madrasas board and lodging is free. No minimum educational qualifications are prescribed. Except for a handful of Madrasas which send their wards to secular schools to learn math., science, history, etc., all of them concentrate on Arabic and religious learning. Though many of their pupils are school dropouts and family rejects, they do the wonderful work of shaping them into good moulvis, i.e., religious teachers.

Jamalia - Perambur, Darusalam - Omerabad, Baqiath - Vellore, are among the few which prepare their students for a University Diploma in either Afzal-ul-Ulma (Arabic), or Munshi-e-Fazil (Persian) or Adib-e-Fazl (Urdu). The need to streamline the Madrasa system in Tamil Nadu by introducing an element of science education, or technical training is being keenly felt. In one or two Madrasas a move in this direction in under way.

The products of these Madrasas mostly depend for jobs on mosques and madrasas, supported by the community. If these Maulvis are made to acquire secular education up to matriculation level and a teaching diploma, they may have opportunities of an independent living.

The Oriental Arabic schools are perhaps peculiar to Tamil Nadu. Such a system does not prevail elsewhere in India. Students offer the common science and humanities stream subjects in these schools plus three papers on Arabic language. Since there are no Higher Secondary schools offering the same pattern of education, the products of these schools have to take to the normal pattern of education offered in higher secondary schools. But when these students go to college, they can offer Arabic under Part I and also under Part III in B.A., leading to a post-graduate degree in Arabic.

Secondary and Higher Secondary Schools:

Muslims are running in all parts of Tamil Nadu, Urdu, Tamil and English medium schools both for boys and girls, separate as well as co-educational, right from nursery to higher secondary school levels. These are around 200 in number. A few of them are matriculation schools, which offer English as a medium throughout. The schools follow a common syllabus having books prescribed by the State Board.

Most of them are feeder institutions. The secondary, matriculation and higher secondary schools send their students for examinations conducted by a State Board. Except for the vocational stream, which is supposed to be terminal, other streams lead to professional as well as arts courses. All the districts except Chingleput in Tamil Nadu have Muslim schools.

In spite of the existence of an umbrella organization called the OMEIAT (this is dealt with in detail below) all the schools are not members of this organization. They have also not devised any other method of coming together, on either the curricular or extra-curricular plane. They may face a number of problems. But perhaps they believe more in individually tackling their own problems than through concerted efforts.

Except for the matriculation schools among them, all schools offer free education. They receive grants-in-aid from the government. Of these schools special mention is to be made of Crescent Residential school in Madras since it is the only one of its kind run by Muslims. Its infra-structural facilities are comparable to Doon and Lawrence, conforming to international standards as regarding accommodation. Results are usually 100 percent, both at matriculation and higher secondary levels. It gets students from Maharastra, UP, Delhi, AP, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu as well as from countries of the Near and Middle East.

Arabic, Hindi and Tamil are offered under Part I. Subjects under the science and art streams are also offered. Reading of the Quran, regular prayers and strict discipline are the hallmarks of this institution.

Colleges:

Coming to the tertiary level, there are thirteen Muslim colleges offering course in arts, science and commerce, from degree to Ph.D. levels. These colleges come under Madras, Madurai Kamaraj and Bharathidasan Universities, which regulate course contents and examinations and awards degrees.

In general, these colleges are doing well except for the fact that none of them has earned the credit of becoming an autonomous college. All of them except one receive 100 percent grants from the State Govt., plus development and faculty improvement grants from the Univ. Grants Commission.

The oldest among these is the Islamiah College, Vaniyambadi, which was started as an intermediate college in the year 1921. The latest is the Muslim Arts College, Kanyakumari, started in 1984, which functions on a self-financing basis. Most of the Arts Colleges were started between the years 1950 and 1970.

These colleges do not have a coordinating council, which could advise them on the pattern of courses they should have for the greater benefit of the community, with the result that at P.G. level, duplication of courses has occurred. The community`s resources being scarce, all educational efforts should be cost effective for the community as a whole.

X Technical Institutions

The latest trend in Tamil Nadu is the birth of Technical Institutions. A large number of polytechnics, engineering colleges and I.T.I.s have dotted the educational landscape in Tamil Nadu. Muslims have also contributed their share by starting two engineering colleges, four polytechnics and ten I.T.Is. `Industrialize and Prosper` is the motto of one of these institutions. To offer technical education and training to youth seems to be the motivating factor for Muslims starting these institutions. One I.T.I. in Villipuram offers a course in civil draughtsmanship to girls.

In Tamil Nadu private effort has contributed to the promotion of education to a very great extent. Philanthropic individuals as well as groups of individuals forming themselves into associations have helped education grow in Tamil Nadu. This is true of all religious groups. At all the three levels of education - primary, secondary and tertiary-- private institutions are far more in number than govt. institutions. In fact private enterprise has been sharing the responsibility of meeting the growing demands of education with the government in a big way.

The following are a few of the well known associations founded by Muslims to work for the cause of education:

1)Muslim Educational Association of South India

2)Vaniyambadi Muslim Educational Society, Vaniyambadi

3)Muslim Women`s Association, Madras

4)Illayangudi Muslim Educational Association, Illayangudi

5)South India Education Trust, Madras

6)Uswathun Hasna Association, Kilakarai

7)Ambur Educational Society, Ambur

8)Anjuman-e-Mufid-e-Ahle-Islam, Madras

9)Anjuman-e-Himayathe-Islam, Madras

10)Abiramam Muslim Educational Society, Abiramam

(This list is not exhaustive.)

To quote Mr. M.D. Sundaravadivelu, former Director of Education and Vice-Chancellor of the University of Madras, `Though Muslims are a minority, their contribution to education is four-fold greater.` While inaugurating the S.I.E.T. Women`s College Majlis, a former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India, Mr. V.R. Krishna Iyer, said: `The S.I.E.T. Women`s College is one of the finest examples of democratic behaviour in secular India, where an institution run by a minority community caters to the majority community.`

This is true of all the Muslim institutions of Tamil Nadu. The percentage of Muslims in these institutions ranges from 15 to 50, except in Urdu schools and in a few schools which are located in Muslim majority areas. An important fact to be borne in mind is that but for these institutions, at least 50 percent of the educated Muslims would not have been educated.

Though women`s education among Muslims has not been up to the desired level, there are signs of hope. There is an awakening, so to say, among them, and Muslim girls are taking to higher education and are coming up as doctors, engineers, lawyers, and professors.

A new phenomenon in this area is that a large number of girls from lower middle class families are thronging the portals of not only arts and science colleges but also medical, engineering and other professional colleges. A larger number of scholarships offered to meet their hostel and other charges may motivate many more girls to go in for higher studies.

Among voluntary organisations, there are some student and youth organizations and an association of Muslim graduates. Student organisations perhaps follow the pattern of the student Christian movement. The Students Islamic Movement (SIM) and the Students Islamic Organization (SIO) organize Muslim students studying in various colleges and work for their welfare. One of them has a monthly bulletin. Books on Islam are also being made available to students by them.

Muslim graduates have organised themselves into an association called Tamil Nadu Muslim Graduates Association. They have been active mainly at Madras, and have organised successfully a seminar on Muslim Women`s Rights. A little more effort on their part should result in offering counseling in employment prospects to fresh graduates.

The Organization of Muslim Educational Institutions, Associations and Trusts of Tamil Nadu (OMEIAT) is an apex organization of all Muslim educational institutions, etc.. Born as a result of the the Muslim Educational Conference held in 1973 at Madras, this body has enrolled 161 schools, 12 colleges, 57 associations, 11 engineering and technical institutions and 34 other institutions. It was able to seek the help of courts of law to establish certain minority rights. Moreover the Directorate of Education and govt.al authorities used to give it a patient hearing when it represented matters regarding grievances of its members. On the whole, OMEIAT has been serving as a useful federating body, the cause of Muslim education in Tamil Nadu.

The Govt. of Tamil Nadu has classified Muslims as a backward class, eligible for educational concessions. This official recognition of Muslim backwardness and the consequent compensatory actions by the way of concessions has gone a long way towards educational upliftment of the community. Perhaps Tamil Nadu is among the few states which have afforded these facilities to Muslims. Though the number of Muslim doctors, engineers, judges, lawyers, professors, etc., belonging to both sexes is still not very significant, yet there are many more now than at the time of Independence.

This is the state of Tamil Nadu education.

* * *

You can buy data re: Muslims in India and support an academic institution at :

http://www.iosworld.org/data.htm

-Arun Gupta

sarwari #186
`` Isn?t it ironic that the abovementioned self-preservation strategy that Hindus perused back then to deny the Muslims the right of self-determination as a nation but considered them a territorial unit, is the same self-preservation strategy that is perused today to count Kashmir?s right of self-determination as a nation instead of considering them as a territorial unit?


Truth is that Hindus use the banner of democracy and secularism as a tool for paving the path to securing Hindu interests, and Muslims fight to secure Muslim interests based on the guarantees and trust of the fair play of the other party?s governance. Its what has fooled us for ages now and yet we continue to be fooled. The victim is a greater sinner than the oppressor and the unjust one. So instead of complaining no one appreciates our colors and hues, simply stop being a doormat for the Hindus, recognize their minds, and do what needs to be done?NOW!``

Ms Sarwari, are you implying that in 53 years of existence as an independent country, Pakistani Muslims have been `doormats for Hindus` based on `guarantees and trust of fair play of others governance`? Are Pakistanis being governed by Hindus?

And just now I heard so many arguments that Pakistani Muslims are so much better off being in Pakistan..

Sadhana

Rsuxena #188, ``Yeah, if you hadn`t come to the West whose most basic ideals you denounce while shamelessly eating its fruits.``

What the hell are you talking about mr. gibberish?

What fruits am I denouncing? If you`re referring to my personal aversion towards alcohol, I`m sorry to say that`s not a basic ideal of the West. If you think that it is, you`re a screwed up FOB.

Don`t make assumptions about me please, you have no right to do so.

``We all know what kinds of opportunities there are in Pakistan for women.``

No you don`t. You only think what you would like to believe. It`s not as bad as you think. Most of my female cousins in Pakistan are making names of themselves in the sciences and arts. One of my cousins was offered a full scholarship to a University in the United States through Karachi University for topping the whole country in microbiology.

And she`s from an average middle class family.

That`s just one example, I can provide countless more. But who needs to justify that with a hate-monger like you.

So this is what a positive message from a Pakistani does to you? You retaliate with false assumptions?

PATHETIC!

I read the article and the one in the Friday Times a few times. As always I feel so flooded by my own responses and emotions about this topic that I get writer`s block.

This issue is so tangled and complex that it leaves me tongue tied. So, this is all I know.

I know I came from the side of a Muslim family that never even considered going to Pakistan. I personally know a person, who rightly or wrongly, refused to set foot in Pakistan, even when his sister who had immigrated was deathly ill.

I also know that, yes, there is discrimination against Muslims of all classes in India. But I am not so naive as to imagine that all the ills in Muslim society in India are the result of being a minority in a Hindu state. And not so misguided to think that Muslims do not suffer because of prejuduce, which incidentally is a two way street.

I have overheard too much, experienced too much, heard too many whispers cut short when I came along: Jawahara, the Muslim. And I have sat, uncomfortably when I was younger, and vocally now, when Muslims would talk about Hindus in pejorative terms as well.

Perhaps all my thoughts on the issue are the indulgences of the privileged Muslim in India. Who knows? All my life I have not been Muslim enough, or too Muslim, not Indian enough or too Indian: perhaps these too are indulgences.

I know that there are people in India, Hindu and Muslim who do not have the luxury of these ramblings because they are too busy scrounging for food. I certainly have no solutions, but I am Indian and I am Muslim, and I see no contradiction between the two. India is in my veins, lives in my senses. Muslim is who I am, who my family is. I don`t see the need to reconcile the two into one. I am both.

*drops her two, long-winded cents and departs *

Paks Not Desi, Please!

By Pervaiz Alvi via e-mail

Growing up in Pakistan, one was familiar and felt comfortable with the word `desi`. It generally meant something of local origin. The word has its roots in many of the indigenous languages. Similarl,y the word `des` stood for land and country and was frequently used in nationalistic songs. The separatist movement in the then East Pakistan gave the word a new use and it became part of the new name for the new country - `Bangladesh` (in Bangla `des` is pronounced as `desh`). However, in the USA this word has taken a new meaning. Here of late the word `desi` is used in some circles to describe people or objects of South Asian origin. Whereas other nationalities could be described as desis, it is not right to refer to Pakistani-Americans as `desis`. Pakistan is a sovereign and independent country located in close proximity of South and Central Asia, and Pakistanis are a distinct group comprising many ethnic subgroups of both South and Central Asian extraction. To identify ourselves as South Asians will deny us the special heritage that we possess, and to call ourselves as `desi` would be certainly demeaning to our identity. We are proud Pakistani-Americans and must always refer to ourselves as such. Just like our kins, the Afghans, Tajiks, Uzbeks and Turks, we should refer to ourselves as Paks but not as `desi`, please!

Pakistan Link

ahmadb #185

No, I haven`t read that piece. I have not had the privilege of much liberal education, and that always pains me.

Is that article easily available somewhere?

Re #190
Re Francois Gautier : he`s the genius who calls all Indians(Hindus) cowards except for one SHINING example Bal Thackeray whose extreme bravery included shutting down a whole city called Mumbai and stranding thousands of school children away from home with threats of violence while crowds of his Shiv Sena goons accompanied him to face the terror unleashed on him by an unarmed magistrate.

And, who is he or Mr Gautier or anyone else to spell out `alternatives` to anyone about their faith, may I ask? Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus can reach their own conclusions wrt to each other without being hectored by journalists and politicians(and underworld operators) on the make.

Sadhana

Yes, and I didnot get an answer to a fundamental question, why is anyone trying to compare the condition of Muslims in a 97% Muslim country and the condition of Muslims in a 15-20%? Muslim country, and blaming Hindus for BOTH?? (The narrative against Hindus for the plight of the 97% Muslim country seems more forceful at this time).

Is sac #92 right, is it merely a non-resident phenomenon(observed among overseas Hindus, too).

Sadhana

In response to Eklavya (Reply # 204)
Dear Eklavya:

The Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci spoke of “subaltern classes” to identify the politically uncoordinated popular mass. Research on the subalterns was initiated and/or extended under the leadership of Ranajit Guha, Gayatri Spivak, and several others in an attempt to assemble a counter-history of popular forms of action and culture to contest both colonial and nationalist accounts.

In her article “Can The Subaltern Speak”?, Gayatri Spivak reflects the way the West and Western intellectuals perceive the subaltern as the other and to the position of women in these relationships. She argues that the colonized subaltern subject is “irretrievably heterogeneous” and in the world of representations (textual or otherwise) can neither know nor speak itself. Spivak maintain that the subaltern male is effaced but the women is “doubly effaced” in colonialist and subaltern history.

Spivak’s article is a jumping board for understanding the political agency of oppressed and/or “silenced” groups. I wonder if any scholar has extended Spivak’s ideas to the study of Muslims in post-independence India.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. Spivak’s erudite piece is a difficult reading. Hence, I have summarized her main thesis, etc. For details, see: Spivak, G. C. (1988). “Can the Subaltern Speak?” In Cary Nelson and Lawrence Grossberg (eds.). Marxism and the Interpretation of Culture. London: Macmillan.

Jawahara # 202

One of the most honest, human, and touching posts I have ever read on Chowk.

The India I would like to see will be the one in which we all come closer to where Jawahara stands. Will that ever happen? I don`t know, but it surely is worth every ounce of our energy to try and keep trying until we make it.

I salute you, Jawahara.

Re: Jawahara #202

Nice post. I wish more of the Muslims in India were like you. You seem to have perfected the art of being both an Indian and a Muslim...people like Farzana can learn from you.

Re: spout

Hahahah. Dude, you`re too predictable. I saw that response coming from a mile. Relax, I`m pulling your chains.

Re jawahara

What writer`s block? Your reply was as touching as it was honest.