The Meaning of Pakistan
Aisha Sarwari March 10, 2001
#243 Posted by Romair on March 17, 2001 4:46:06 pm
msarwar #234: ``The South Asian Students` Association on the campus is composed entirely of Indian officer-bearers not because there is any sort of discrimination against us, but because no Pakistani wants to take out the time to run for that position.....
``Indian students run for position on the various student councils and for positions in various student organisations.``
This is different from university to university. I remember when I was in college, the Pakistani Students Association members completely dominated not only the International Students Association, but the University Student Senate, as well. It seemed like Pakistanis were the only group participating at any level.
How were the Pakistani undergraduates able to achieve this success? Well with quite a bit of Pakistani electoral ingenuity and resourcefulness.
They made a one year plan to ensure that they would never lose an election. In the first stage, they started joining the student police force. These are the students in police uniforms who are responsible for giving parking tickets on campus, etc. Pretty soon any new Pakistani student (male or female) ended up being recruited into the police force by the other Pakistani students. Within ten months or so, the police force (the beaurecracy) was completely under the control of the Pakistani Students Association. Even Pakistani girls were members of the student police force.
With this militant arm of the beaurecracy under their control, the PSA moved into the powerful corridor of students politics. They put up candidates for the International Students Association, and the Student Senate (open to all students). Every single Pakistani candidate won. How did that happen, you may ask. Well during the elections, it was the responsibility of the student police gaurds to monitor the election booths, which were spread out all over the campus. I will leave it at that :-)
Good thing tehelka.com wasn`t around at that time:-)
``Indian students run for position on the various student councils and for positions in various student organisations.``
This is different from university to university. I remember when I was in college, the Pakistani Students Association members completely dominated not only the International Students Association, but the University Student Senate, as well. It seemed like Pakistanis were the only group participating at any level.
How were the Pakistani undergraduates able to achieve this success? Well with quite a bit of Pakistani electoral ingenuity and resourcefulness.
They made a one year plan to ensure that they would never lose an election. In the first stage, they started joining the student police force. These are the students in police uniforms who are responsible for giving parking tickets on campus, etc. Pretty soon any new Pakistani student (male or female) ended up being recruited into the police force by the other Pakistani students. Within ten months or so, the police force (the beaurecracy) was completely under the control of the Pakistani Students Association. Even Pakistani girls were members of the student police force.
With this militant arm of the beaurecracy under their control, the PSA moved into the powerful corridor of students politics. They put up candidates for the International Students Association, and the Student Senate (open to all students). Every single Pakistani candidate won. How did that happen, you may ask. Well during the elections, it was the responsibility of the student police gaurds to monitor the election booths, which were spread out all over the campus. I will leave it at that :-)
Good thing tehelka.com wasn`t around at that time:-)
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#244 Posted by Romair on March 17, 2001 6:18:55 pm
After going through the (very long) text of the tapes at tehelka.com, I have to admit one thing: In comparison with Pakistani politicians, Indian politicians are far more amateurish in carrying out corruption. One can understand the amateurishness of the Colonels and Generals of the Indian Army on those tapes. Military men are never clever enough to hide their tracks, and have a tendency of over-speaking their minds. But civilians, specially politicians, are usually masters at double-speak. It is quite surprising that even the civlians not only blabbed out information regarding their own corruption, face-to-face with the undercover reporter, but even mentioned the names of their bosses.
Compare this to the suave and sophisticated professionalism with which Benazir, Zardari and Nawaz Sharif carry out corruption. Despite Benazir and Zardari being the poster children for Transperancy International, no Pakistan govt. has not been able to nail down this Bonnie and Clyde duo. They do all their corruption through off-shore companies in small islands. Even Nawaz Sharif`s royal flats in London are owned by an off-shore company. Not to mention Benazir`s British mansion. The only way the govt. was able to partially nail down Benazir and Zardari was when some unknown source turned over documents to the govt. in which Benazir had cashed a check from the back account of an off-shore company (I believe) which was linked to some kickbacks.
I doubt Benazir and Nawaz Sharif`s cronies and subordinates would have been so unprofessional in their corrupt ways to admit everything to an unknown undercover salesman. They would have been two steps ahead of the undercover reporter. Perhaps Vajpayee and his ministers need to take some lessons from Benazir, Nawaz Sharif in the art of setting up multiple off-shore companies to handle kickbacks.
Compare this to the suave and sophisticated professionalism with which Benazir, Zardari and Nawaz Sharif carry out corruption. Despite Benazir and Zardari being the poster children for Transperancy International, no Pakistan govt. has not been able to nail down this Bonnie and Clyde duo. They do all their corruption through off-shore companies in small islands. Even Nawaz Sharif`s royal flats in London are owned by an off-shore company. Not to mention Benazir`s British mansion. The only way the govt. was able to partially nail down Benazir and Zardari was when some unknown source turned over documents to the govt. in which Benazir had cashed a check from the back account of an off-shore company (I believe) which was linked to some kickbacks.
I doubt Benazir and Nawaz Sharif`s cronies and subordinates would have been so unprofessional in their corrupt ways to admit everything to an unknown undercover salesman. They would have been two steps ahead of the undercover reporter. Perhaps Vajpayee and his ministers need to take some lessons from Benazir, Nawaz Sharif in the art of setting up multiple off-shore companies to handle kickbacks.
#245 Posted by Pardesi on March 17, 2001 8:54:52 pm
ROmair #245
You are right .. the only indian politicians as corrupt, but smart enough to cover the tracks, were indira and rajiv gandhi .. now you know why congress leaders were begging sonia to be the leader .. she has the proverbial `key` to those funds.
You are right .. the only indian politicians as corrupt, but smart enough to cover the tracks, were indira and rajiv gandhi .. now you know why congress leaders were begging sonia to be the leader .. she has the proverbial `key` to those funds.
#246 Posted by msarwar on March 17, 2001 8:54:52 pm
Taliban kaun? Hum nahin jante
Sakina Yusuf Khan
DEOBAND: The Darul Uloom Deoband has never hogged so much media attention as it did last week. Journalists, hot on the Taliban trail, discovered a couple of things about Deoband: that it`s not in Bihar, but near Saharanpur, just 170 km from Delhi; that this seminary of Islamic learning, viewed by the Sangh Parivar as the hotbed of sedition, had worked hand-in-hand with the Congress during the freedom struggle; that the 135-year-old mother of all madarsas is not really a militant-producing factory as some believe.
But yes, it still has a mediaeval air about it. For the last 10 km leading to Deoband town, traffic consists only of bullock carts and cyclists. We dodge our way past overflowing drains, piles of garbage on the road and enormous swarms of flies that follow you everywhere (the Uttar Pradesh government seems to have struck off this place from its civic register). In the midst of all this squalor, the Rs 8-crore Taj Mahal look-alike masjid coming up appears truly incongruous.
As I get off the car at the Darul-Uloom main gate, a bearded middle-aged fellow walks up and commands: ``Dupatta sar par rahko``. I ignore that and ask for the VC`s office. He commands me more sternly. God, am I in Talibanistan, I mutter, but comply.
The vice-chancellor, Maulana Abdul Khaliq, is not in his room. ``Aap Naazim saheb se milein,`` offers a helpful functionary, pointing the way to the office of the administrator, Maulana Adil Siddiqui. I walk in, half expecting to be thrown out. Head covered, looking down, I demurely introduce myself in as chaste Urdu as I can manage. Maulana Siddiqui`s reaction throws me out of gear: seated on the carpet surrounded by half-a-dozen young and old maulvis, he says in fluent English: ``Welcome, take a seat.``
For the next four hours, I`m given a tour of this majestic but run-down campus -- the huge dari-covered lecture rooms with low wooden platforms, dingy hostel rooms, unkempt lawns and hedges. The 3,500 students, mostly from poor families from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Bengal, are blissfully unaware of the world outside this Islamic fortress. They spend 10 to 12 hours every day cramming the Quran, mastering the Hadis and learning the intricacies of the Fiqh and the Sunnah.
They don`t feel deprived at not being allowed to watch television (it`s banned) or doing the normal things that adolescents do. ``We are happy with two meals of dal roti, hum ko to bina takiye ke bhi neend aa jati hai (we sleep without pillows),`` says a placid final-year student from Rampur.
With such an austere lifestyle can you blame 10-year-old Taufique Ahmed if he has never heard of Amitabh Bachchan and Sachin Tendulkar. What about the Taliban? ``Hum nahi jante,`` is the stock reply. Only one 20-year-old, Ali Akbar, comes up with ``woh hamare Musalman bhai hain.``
Who are their icons? No, not Gandhi, Nehru, not even Jinnah. Their heroes hail from the Islamic world: Imam Abu Hanifa and Qaari Siddiqui of Banda. This is hardly surprising in an institution whose vice-chancellor holds the century-old fatwa declaring India a Darul Harb (country of war or conflict) valid even today. ``For me, India will continue to be a Darul Harb jab tak ke Mulsalmanon ko yahan sataya jayega, unki ibbadatgah mahfuz nahi, aur unke madarse khatre mein hain (till Muslims are persecuted here),`` he says.
Sakina Yusuf Khan
DEOBAND: The Darul Uloom Deoband has never hogged so much media attention as it did last week. Journalists, hot on the Taliban trail, discovered a couple of things about Deoband: that it`s not in Bihar, but near Saharanpur, just 170 km from Delhi; that this seminary of Islamic learning, viewed by the Sangh Parivar as the hotbed of sedition, had worked hand-in-hand with the Congress during the freedom struggle; that the 135-year-old mother of all madarsas is not really a militant-producing factory as some believe.
But yes, it still has a mediaeval air about it. For the last 10 km leading to Deoband town, traffic consists only of bullock carts and cyclists. We dodge our way past overflowing drains, piles of garbage on the road and enormous swarms of flies that follow you everywhere (the Uttar Pradesh government seems to have struck off this place from its civic register). In the midst of all this squalor, the Rs 8-crore Taj Mahal look-alike masjid coming up appears truly incongruous.
As I get off the car at the Darul-Uloom main gate, a bearded middle-aged fellow walks up and commands: ``Dupatta sar par rahko``. I ignore that and ask for the VC`s office. He commands me more sternly. God, am I in Talibanistan, I mutter, but comply.
The vice-chancellor, Maulana Abdul Khaliq, is not in his room. ``Aap Naazim saheb se milein,`` offers a helpful functionary, pointing the way to the office of the administrator, Maulana Adil Siddiqui. I walk in, half expecting to be thrown out. Head covered, looking down, I demurely introduce myself in as chaste Urdu as I can manage. Maulana Siddiqui`s reaction throws me out of gear: seated on the carpet surrounded by half-a-dozen young and old maulvis, he says in fluent English: ``Welcome, take a seat.``
For the next four hours, I`m given a tour of this majestic but run-down campus -- the huge dari-covered lecture rooms with low wooden platforms, dingy hostel rooms, unkempt lawns and hedges. The 3,500 students, mostly from poor families from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Bengal, are blissfully unaware of the world outside this Islamic fortress. They spend 10 to 12 hours every day cramming the Quran, mastering the Hadis and learning the intricacies of the Fiqh and the Sunnah.
They don`t feel deprived at not being allowed to watch television (it`s banned) or doing the normal things that adolescents do. ``We are happy with two meals of dal roti, hum ko to bina takiye ke bhi neend aa jati hai (we sleep without pillows),`` says a placid final-year student from Rampur.
With such an austere lifestyle can you blame 10-year-old Taufique Ahmed if he has never heard of Amitabh Bachchan and Sachin Tendulkar. What about the Taliban? ``Hum nahi jante,`` is the stock reply. Only one 20-year-old, Ali Akbar, comes up with ``woh hamare Musalman bhai hain.``
Who are their icons? No, not Gandhi, Nehru, not even Jinnah. Their heroes hail from the Islamic world: Imam Abu Hanifa and Qaari Siddiqui of Banda. This is hardly surprising in an institution whose vice-chancellor holds the century-old fatwa declaring India a Darul Harb (country of war or conflict) valid even today. ``For me, India will continue to be a Darul Harb jab tak ke Mulsalmanon ko yahan sataya jayega, unki ibbadatgah mahfuz nahi, aur unke madarse khatre mein hain (till Muslims are persecuted here),`` he says.
#247 Posted by Aisha_Sarwari on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
Jay: re Reply #: 238
We risk more than what some Indian may think is safe! The Pakistani economy may be a risky venture now (I don`t think so) but nothing says its deprived of reward. The two things are directly proportional...risk and reward...we don`t measure eveything based on Indian ``methi and heeng`` value.
Romair:
You went to a very interesting University. At SJSU there is a proportion of about 10 Indians to 1 Pakistani, nevertheless, we have had more diverse functions on the whole and are more active. though I say so myself.... by the way there is a propotion of 1 Indian Muslim to about 20 Hindus. (SJSU International Students Office)
Later,
Aisha
We risk more than what some Indian may think is safe! The Pakistani economy may be a risky venture now (I don`t think so) but nothing says its deprived of reward. The two things are directly proportional...risk and reward...we don`t measure eveything based on Indian ``methi and heeng`` value.
Romair:
You went to a very interesting University. At SJSU there is a proportion of about 10 Indians to 1 Pakistani, nevertheless, we have had more diverse functions on the whole and are more active. though I say so myself.... by the way there is a propotion of 1 Indian Muslim to about 20 Hindus. (SJSU International Students Office)
Later,
Aisha
#248 Posted by nehru on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
Nefer in my intiree liphe I hape sheen chutch lowliness...Ghandi Jee, his nangaaness would be very achamedee.....
India`s Congress plots comeback amid bribery scandal
Sonia Gandhi, center, appears with other party leaders at the 81st Plenary Session of the Indian National Congress on Saturday in Banglore, India
March 18, 2001
Web posted at: 1:53 PM HKT (0553 GMT)
NEW DELHI, India -- India`s opposition Congress Party tried Saturday to keep the spotlight on a bribery scandal that threatens to topple Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee`s government.
Congress Party leader Sonia Gandhi opened her party`s national convention with a call for Vajpayee`s government to resign.
``We demand the departure of this government on moral grounds,`` Congress leader Sonia Gandhi said.
The Congress Party is formulating its response to the scandal that has handed them their best opportunity in years for a return to power. Videotapes taken by hidden cameras showed government officials and politicians being offered bribes and kickbacks by journalists posing as arms dealers. Some allegedly accepted them.
On Friday, Vajpayee went on national television to promise an independent inquiry and appealed for time to ``clean up the dirt`` in his government.
The next few days will be crucial to the survival of the government. Congress supporters on Saturday demanded the resignation of the government and the arrest of all those caught up in the scandal.
Activists on donkeys took the place of government leaders at Saturday`s demonstration -- a traditional village method of shaming the guilty.
Three top officials in Vajpayee`s government have resigned -- including Defense Minister George Fernandes, whose deputy was caught on tape discussing gifts with the ``arms dealers.`` And a regional party facing state elections quit Vajpayee`s coalition because it said the government had been slow to respond to the allegations.
Congress youth leader Subhash Gupta said Fernandes and the leaders of two of Vajpayee`s coalition partners need to face charges.
``After that, the government must resign and order an impartial inquiry into the scandal,`` he said.
Vajpayee said his government may seek a parliamentary vote of confidence to demonstrate it still has a mandate to rule. But even if it survives, Vajpayee`s government is likely to be more vulnerable to the demands of coalition partners, many of whom oppose Vajpayee`s economic reforms.
Correspondent Kasra Naji, The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
RELATED STORIES:
Indian government on the defensive
Scandal freezes India parliament for a second day
Kasra Naji: Arms Scandal in India
Arms scandal brings down Indian defense minister
Arms scandal envelops Indian government
India`s BJP chief resigns amid bribery scandal
India`s Congress plots comeback amid bribery scandal
Sonia Gandhi, center, appears with other party leaders at the 81st Plenary Session of the Indian National Congress on Saturday in Banglore, India
March 18, 2001
Web posted at: 1:53 PM HKT (0553 GMT)
NEW DELHI, India -- India`s opposition Congress Party tried Saturday to keep the spotlight on a bribery scandal that threatens to topple Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee`s government.
Congress Party leader Sonia Gandhi opened her party`s national convention with a call for Vajpayee`s government to resign.
``We demand the departure of this government on moral grounds,`` Congress leader Sonia Gandhi said.
The Congress Party is formulating its response to the scandal that has handed them their best opportunity in years for a return to power. Videotapes taken by hidden cameras showed government officials and politicians being offered bribes and kickbacks by journalists posing as arms dealers. Some allegedly accepted them.
On Friday, Vajpayee went on national television to promise an independent inquiry and appealed for time to ``clean up the dirt`` in his government.
The next few days will be crucial to the survival of the government. Congress supporters on Saturday demanded the resignation of the government and the arrest of all those caught up in the scandal.
Activists on donkeys took the place of government leaders at Saturday`s demonstration -- a traditional village method of shaming the guilty.
Three top officials in Vajpayee`s government have resigned -- including Defense Minister George Fernandes, whose deputy was caught on tape discussing gifts with the ``arms dealers.`` And a regional party facing state elections quit Vajpayee`s coalition because it said the government had been slow to respond to the allegations.
Congress youth leader Subhash Gupta said Fernandes and the leaders of two of Vajpayee`s coalition partners need to face charges.
``After that, the government must resign and order an impartial inquiry into the scandal,`` he said.
Vajpayee said his government may seek a parliamentary vote of confidence to demonstrate it still has a mandate to rule. But even if it survives, Vajpayee`s government is likely to be more vulnerable to the demands of coalition partners, many of whom oppose Vajpayee`s economic reforms.
Correspondent Kasra Naji, The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
RELATED STORIES:
Indian government on the defensive
Scandal freezes India parliament for a second day
Kasra Naji: Arms Scandal in India
Arms scandal brings down Indian defense minister
Arms scandal envelops Indian government
India`s BJP chief resigns amid bribery scandal
#249 Posted by jay on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
Aisha,
Pakistan is a young country, it has no history, it is only 50 years young. All that is in the past is indian, pakistan in 1947 was a geografic absurdity created in the name of religion, 1971, removed that absurdity, now only the political one remains.
Pakistan has no language, urdu is a bastardised version of hindi in arabic script. There is no history, no great works.
What ever is of islamic origin is claimed by saudis, the iraquis and others.
There is ni political metaphysics to pakistan, at best has a darwenian political evolutionary angle . Muslims who had nothing much in india to give up went to pakistan, some went because it was alleged that the assets of the hindus who left pakistan are being given to the newcomers. It aws a region with not much of any industrial infrastructure, one mangarams biscuit factory was all that the country had.
The country is a darwenian experiment, a nation created in the name islam is strugling to find its true identity as a islamic state. Fifty years of indictrination to identify the kafirs is at last producing results, hordes of them are fanning out from chechniya to the philippines to look for the kafirs. That is the true destiny of pakistan, anes that is achieved, and armed with the weapons of mass destruction, it is iraquisation time, and end of the experiment.
regards
jay
Pakistan is a young country, it has no history, it is only 50 years young. All that is in the past is indian, pakistan in 1947 was a geografic absurdity created in the name of religion, 1971, removed that absurdity, now only the political one remains.
Pakistan has no language, urdu is a bastardised version of hindi in arabic script. There is no history, no great works.
What ever is of islamic origin is claimed by saudis, the iraquis and others.
There is ni political metaphysics to pakistan, at best has a darwenian political evolutionary angle . Muslims who had nothing much in india to give up went to pakistan, some went because it was alleged that the assets of the hindus who left pakistan are being given to the newcomers. It aws a region with not much of any industrial infrastructure, one mangarams biscuit factory was all that the country had.
The country is a darwenian experiment, a nation created in the name islam is strugling to find its true identity as a islamic state. Fifty years of indictrination to identify the kafirs is at last producing results, hordes of them are fanning out from chechniya to the philippines to look for the kafirs. That is the true destiny of pakistan, anes that is achieved, and armed with the weapons of mass destruction, it is iraquisation time, and end of the experiment.
regards
jay
#250 Posted by jay on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
msarwar 234,
Pakistan if definede only with respect to india. I have noticed what is in that post in several universities. Pakistanis abroad tend to be from a higher income strata compared to the indians, and are funded by the papas. Indians tend to come on merit, usually with schols/aastenships and are in post- grad/nasters/p.hd programs. Pakistanis simply tend to focus on good times and are not generally as good in academcs as indians on srilankans.
Because there is nothing pakistani abroad, no pak restaurents, pak food, clothing, heroes, writers, scientists, etc pakistanis tend to use the `desi` and try to claim what is indian as theirs. Their case is pathetic, cannot strongly identify as muslims because the considers them as terrorists, cannot claim as indians because they are simply not. Desi, south asian are the pet concepts of the pakistanis. Poor lost souls, in search of an identity.
Pakistan if definede only with respect to india. I have noticed what is in that post in several universities. Pakistanis abroad tend to be from a higher income strata compared to the indians, and are funded by the papas. Indians tend to come on merit, usually with schols/aastenships and are in post- grad/nasters/p.hd programs. Pakistanis simply tend to focus on good times and are not generally as good in academcs as indians on srilankans.
Because there is nothing pakistani abroad, no pak restaurents, pak food, clothing, heroes, writers, scientists, etc pakistanis tend to use the `desi` and try to claim what is indian as theirs. Their case is pathetic, cannot strongly identify as muslims because the considers them as terrorists, cannot claim as indians because they are simply not. Desi, south asian are the pet concepts of the pakistanis. Poor lost souls, in search of an identity.
#251 Posted by jay on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
Aisha,
On the meaning of pakistan, again. Pakistan is ruled by the military, who knows more than any one else to use the weapons against, you know, the Rehman report, have decided that the best way to prevent the masaccre of the minorities is to ban pillion riding. Of course, pak military attaracts the best, and some ex-ones are on the chowk. Can these kinds of decisions by the rulers provide the meaning of pakistan. From dawn of today.
Pillion riding ban
FROM the recent mosque-massacre it is proved, once anew, that the pillion riding ban works - and works very well - but only for the already law-abiding middle-class, making their life more miserable.
As regards terrorists, they still can enjoy even triple-riding as in the recent killings. Had they any respect for the law, why would they have been performing such gruesome acts?
Instead of making comprehensive security arrangements, it is unjust to impose the ban. It should be lifted forthwith.
MUHAMMAD ZUBAIR
Lahore
On the meaning of pakistan, again. Pakistan is ruled by the military, who knows more than any one else to use the weapons against, you know, the Rehman report, have decided that the best way to prevent the masaccre of the minorities is to ban pillion riding. Of course, pak military attaracts the best, and some ex-ones are on the chowk. Can these kinds of decisions by the rulers provide the meaning of pakistan. From dawn of today.
Pillion riding ban
FROM the recent mosque-massacre it is proved, once anew, that the pillion riding ban works - and works very well - but only for the already law-abiding middle-class, making their life more miserable.
As regards terrorists, they still can enjoy even triple-riding as in the recent killings. Had they any respect for the law, why would they have been performing such gruesome acts?
Instead of making comprehensive security arrangements, it is unjust to impose the ban. It should be lifted forthwith.
MUHAMMAD ZUBAIR
Lahore
#252 Posted by jay on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
Ferozk,
The following is the lament of a pakistani in nation of today. The poor guy has no idea that after the simla agreement, pakistan has agreed to settle the matter bilaterally and UN being a multilateral organisation has no role in kashmir. Yes of course those stone statues that no one worships, Iwonder what happened to those people, what happened to the shia men after taliban take over, where are the shia women after taliban. The stupid hindoos, no idea what to do with the believers of other religion, babri is a mosque, not a stone structure, it has worshippers, onlike the budhists of afghanistan. Very funny, stone is important, it is a reminder of the missing people.
`` It is a pity to loose these ancient monuments but to see the UN Secretary General more concerned about these stone statues than the sufferings of the Kashmiri people shows some very skewed priorities. He played the role of a mediator between the rest of the world and the Taliban, though not to any success. He tried his best to put pressure on Taliban and threatened punishments in the form of reduced donor help. However, when it comes to Kashmir and the lives of the Kashmiri people, the Secretary General did not feel the need to create any pressure on India.
``
#253 Posted by Romair on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
Just got an interesting link from a friend. Pretty good idea. Apparently, Pakistan has pieces in place to jump on the IT educational bandwagon, except for one major part. It has the interested and qualified students, the buildings, and for the first time in its history, an effective minister and a dedicated ministry (these guys are doing some really good work). The only thing it doesn`t have is faculty. It is trying hard, but unsuccessfully, to recruit them from overseas. It is going to be quite difficult to set up the seven planeed IT universities this year in Pakistan, without faculty. So, if any IT person wants a free trip to Pakistan and a paid vacation, check out the following:
``Beaconhouse-Informatics has initiated a plan through which students studying in Doctoral / Masters programs and IT professionals resident in the USA, Europe and Australia are invited to visit Pakistan for short-term teaching assignments
( 3 - 6 months) , in the field of Computer Science and Information Technology. They teach at one of the campuses of Beaconhouse-Informatics. The teaching entails undergraduate courses in the area of their expertise.
The visiting students and professionals are provided Return airfare to Pakistan, Free furnished Accommodation Plus Compensation for their services. In addition they are provided on-campus facilities like Computer Lab and Internet facilities to continue their own research and development work.``
http://informatics.edu.pk/tip/
On a side note, I have always wondered how Indian universities are able to keep their IT faculty. Indian IT professionals tend to run to North America even quicker than Pakistanis. I can`t imagine the Indian universities pay nearly as well as North American companies. How are the universities in India able to keep some of the Ph.Ds? Is it just because there are so many Ph.Ds. in India that even the fraction that stay behind are enough to staff the universities?
``Beaconhouse-Informatics has initiated a plan through which students studying in Doctoral / Masters programs and IT professionals resident in the USA, Europe and Australia are invited to visit Pakistan for short-term teaching assignments
( 3 - 6 months) , in the field of Computer Science and Information Technology. They teach at one of the campuses of Beaconhouse-Informatics. The teaching entails undergraduate courses in the area of their expertise.
The visiting students and professionals are provided Return airfare to Pakistan, Free furnished Accommodation Plus Compensation for their services. In addition they are provided on-campus facilities like Computer Lab and Internet facilities to continue their own research and development work.``
http://informatics.edu.pk/tip/
On a side note, I have always wondered how Indian universities are able to keep their IT faculty. Indian IT professionals tend to run to North America even quicker than Pakistanis. I can`t imagine the Indian universities pay nearly as well as North American companies. How are the universities in India able to keep some of the Ph.Ds? Is it just because there are so many Ph.Ds. in India that even the fraction that stay behind are enough to staff the universities?
#254 Posted by egalitarian_bra on March 18, 2001 10:37:47 am
Re Urstruly # 63
I hate how india has held kashmir for the last fifty years but it is interesting that only 3% of the muslim kashmiri population lives below the poverty line. Which is a stark contrast to the 25% in the rest of india and God knows what the %in pakistan is.
Do you believe that the acts of kashmiris and palestinians are just? Do you really think that is jihad. They are being used as mere toys by the muslim world to keep israel and india on their toes. Where in the muslim history do you see a couple of armed muslims ,killing a couple of infidels in the middle of the night and being treated like heros? nowhere except maybe in pakistan.
It is time that they understand this and use their energy, time and resources to build schools and hospitals.
I hate how india has held kashmir for the last fifty years but it is interesting that only 3% of the muslim kashmiri population lives below the poverty line. Which is a stark contrast to the 25% in the rest of india and God knows what the %in pakistan is.
Do you believe that the acts of kashmiris and palestinians are just? Do you really think that is jihad. They are being used as mere toys by the muslim world to keep israel and india on their toes. Where in the muslim history do you see a couple of armed muslims ,killing a couple of infidels in the middle of the night and being treated like heros? nowhere except maybe in pakistan.
It is time that they understand this and use their energy, time and resources to build schools and hospitals.
#255 Posted by rsridhar on March 18, 2001 4:08:04 pm
Re: Reply #: 251
``Pakistan has no language, urdu is a bastardised version of hindi in arabic script. There is no history, no great works``.
Jay, are you sure the above statement is factually correct? I do not know the urdu script. What little of that language i know is from movies and what i learnt growing up in Delhi where urdu is mixed fairly with hindi (a concoction called `hindustani` by some). I can tell you that hindi lacks the sophistication of urdu and the greatness and poetry of Sanskrit (i know both hindi and sanskrit fairly well to pass such a comment). I know some in this forum may disagree with me. In labelling urdu as a ``muslim`` language, the muslim league politicians during partition ensured that urdu will never enjoy the pride of place that it did in northern india until then. Hindi (which was not such a popular language in 1947)was resurrected,received political patronage and is now a tremendouly popular language in India. So Hindi owes its success in no small measure to the communal politics of the partition days.
Re:Reply #: 249
egalitarian_brahmin,
Agree with your post. The rigid mentality of muslims in India (i am not talking about the liberal ones you see in art,cinema or academics)is definitely slowing down their progress. In denying their children the opportunities offered by latest developments in IT (just an example),they are doing injustice. While it is O.K to cling on to their unique identiy,language etc (which the children learn from Madrasas),the newer ideas in science should also be taught. This is indeed a complicated issue and there are no easy solutions.
Regards,
sridhar
``Pakistan has no language, urdu is a bastardised version of hindi in arabic script. There is no history, no great works``.
Jay, are you sure the above statement is factually correct? I do not know the urdu script. What little of that language i know is from movies and what i learnt growing up in Delhi where urdu is mixed fairly with hindi (a concoction called `hindustani` by some). I can tell you that hindi lacks the sophistication of urdu and the greatness and poetry of Sanskrit (i know both hindi and sanskrit fairly well to pass such a comment). I know some in this forum may disagree with me. In labelling urdu as a ``muslim`` language, the muslim league politicians during partition ensured that urdu will never enjoy the pride of place that it did in northern india until then. Hindi (which was not such a popular language in 1947)was resurrected,received political patronage and is now a tremendouly popular language in India. So Hindi owes its success in no small measure to the communal politics of the partition days.
Re:Reply #: 249
egalitarian_brahmin,
Agree with your post. The rigid mentality of muslims in India (i am not talking about the liberal ones you see in art,cinema or academics)is definitely slowing down their progress. In denying their children the opportunities offered by latest developments in IT (just an example),they are doing injustice. While it is O.K to cling on to their unique identiy,language etc (which the children learn from Madrasas),the newer ideas in science should also be taught. This is indeed a complicated issue and there are no easy solutions.
Regards,
sridhar
#256 Posted by rsridhar on March 18, 2001 4:08:04 pm
O``n a side note, I have always wondered how Indian universities are able to keep their IT faculty. Indian IT professionals tend to run to North America even quicker than Pakistanis. I can`t imagine the Indian universities pay nearly as well as North American companies``.
ROmair, is the above statement true? I believe not. I have not a few IT professionals in NIIT and they are perfectly happy where they are.
sridhar
ROmair, is the above statement true? I believe not. I have not a few IT professionals in NIIT and they are perfectly happy where they are.
sridhar
#257 Posted by ali1 on March 18, 2001 4:08:04 pm
Here is how the secular India works:
Fresh violence erupts in Kanpur
KANPUR: Frenzied mob went on the rampage today setting on fire four places of worship and about a dozen shops belonging to minorities as the situation worsened in the city that witnessed a violent clash between police and a group protesting against alleged burning of Quran yesterday, official sources said.
http://expressindia.com/news/daily/20010317/01703201.htm
What caused the frenzy in the ``frenzied mob``? Did Kanpur muslims attack a temple, or a assault a Hindu man or woman, or hurt Hindoo sensibilities in any way? Nope. Their fault was that they dared to protest the Quran burning in Dehli. The previous day, about a thousand of them tried to burn Vajpayee`s effigy (normal Indian politics, a hypocrite told us once) but the police stopped them and shot five of them dead. Efficient policing I must say (0.05% hit ratio)
Now what was the efficient Kanpur police doing when the ``frenzied mob`` was burning ``four`` mosques and a ``dozen`` muslim-owned shops?
They shot and killed two more....
....and the Indian Urdu press has identified them as Javed and Bawa. All of us must salute Indian/Hindoo brand of secularism I think.
Fresh violence erupts in Kanpur
KANPUR: Frenzied mob went on the rampage today setting on fire four places of worship and about a dozen shops belonging to minorities as the situation worsened in the city that witnessed a violent clash between police and a group protesting against alleged burning of Quran yesterday, official sources said.
http://expressindia.com/news/daily/20010317/01703201.htm
What caused the frenzy in the ``frenzied mob``? Did Kanpur muslims attack a temple, or a assault a Hindu man or woman, or hurt Hindoo sensibilities in any way? Nope. Their fault was that they dared to protest the Quran burning in Dehli. The previous day, about a thousand of them tried to burn Vajpayee`s effigy (normal Indian politics, a hypocrite told us once) but the police stopped them and shot five of them dead. Efficient policing I must say (0.05% hit ratio)
Now what was the efficient Kanpur police doing when the ``frenzied mob`` was burning ``four`` mosques and a ``dozen`` muslim-owned shops?
They shot and killed two more....
....and the Indian Urdu press has identified them as Javed and Bawa. All of us must salute Indian/Hindoo brand of secularism I think.
#258 Posted by ali1 on March 18, 2001 4:08:04 pm
More on how the secular India works:
Army stages flag march in Bihar town
``They came, dragged out innocent people from their houses and shot them in cold blood. How do you explain the killing of eight-year-old Arif ... Don`t you think that they behaved like criminals?`` he asked.
Residents accused the police of perpetrating cold-blooded murder of at least 14 villagers, a charge which was denied by the police.
Tension ran high in Siwan district, since Friday morning when policemen protesting against the assault of a Deputy Superintendent of Police Sanjeev Kumar, by the MP at an examination centre a day earlier........(PTI)
http://www.timesofindia.com/today/18indu10.htm
Again, what caused this frenzy in the Bihari policemen? Did Siwan muslims attack a temple, or assault a Hindu man or woman, or hurt Hindoo sensibilities in any way? Nope. Their fault was that their muslim MP had insulted a Hindu DSP at a local examination center....
and 14 of them including 8 year old Arif had to pay with their LIVES. All of us must salute this Indian/Hindoo brand of secularism I think.
Army stages flag march in Bihar town
``They came, dragged out innocent people from their houses and shot them in cold blood. How do you explain the killing of eight-year-old Arif ... Don`t you think that they behaved like criminals?`` he asked.
Residents accused the police of perpetrating cold-blooded murder of at least 14 villagers, a charge which was denied by the police.
Tension ran high in Siwan district, since Friday morning when policemen protesting against the assault of a Deputy Superintendent of Police Sanjeev Kumar, by the MP at an examination centre a day earlier........(PTI)
http://www.timesofindia.com/today/18indu10.htm
Again, what caused this frenzy in the Bihari policemen? Did Siwan muslims attack a temple, or assault a Hindu man or woman, or hurt Hindoo sensibilities in any way? Nope. Their fault was that their muslim MP had insulted a Hindu DSP at a local examination center....
and 14 of them including 8 year old Arif had to pay with their LIVES. All of us must salute this Indian/Hindoo brand of secularism I think.