The Good Husband

Bina:

Your response to Syed Ahmed was not in line with the message behind your article. Syed Ahmed has responded to your piece in light of the same socio-economic strata that you`ve discussed in your article. In your following response, you have changed your audience and that`s where I will agree with Dost Mittar Jee`s response. I think Dost Mittar Jee`s rersponse is more applicable to your post to Syed Ahmed than your article.

You cannot switch back and forth. In order to do that, your article needs to target a different audience. Ok, let me clarify that! There is a very potent thought in your piece, but it`s NOT addressing a woman`s pathetic state somewhere in the slums or in some low income parts of Karachi[as you stated in your response].

[Syed Ahmed, you made some very valid observations about the way attitudes are beginning to change amongst the educated classes and the US emigres. However, I would argue that a man making tea for his wife in Cincinnati does not negate or cancel out the following scenarios:

- The rural woman in Sindh who has to do all the household chores and work in the fields while her husband lies around on a charpai drinking lassi all day long

- The lower class woman from Korangi who works as a domestic servant from 9 am to 7 pm, then goes home and relieves her eldest daughters from child care and cooking, while her husband is a drug addict and unable to support his family.]

...........]]]

Aside from that, I really liked the following[last passage] of your response to Syed Ahmed. In fact, it will be be unfair on my behalf to use the word, ``liked`` - I simply loved the thought. I partially believe in the same thought that you`ve vehemently stated and will come back to it later on[I wished there were 48 hours in a day than 24 hours].

[Finally, I had a theory that Islam is a true democracy, because if men are to be the leaders of the family, women have the right to ``elect`` them in the sense that they choose who they marry. Unfortunately, we have even taken that right away from women. And it`s up to men to decide what kind of leader they want to be, but too many choose ``dictator`` or ``despot`` over ``president`` of a democracy. ]

Question:

Also, please explain:``What is a raging feminist?`` I am completely new( *_ *) to this concept and would love to be enlightened(?_?). Somehow staying ignorant does not bring any bliss in this particular area. :-)

All Ears. (!(!(!

Thanks.

PS: Checkout Oprah`s Oxygen, if you have not already. http://oprah.oxygen.com

Shirin

That reminds me of my cousin who is a lecturer in Pak. He was once showed me a paper, (exam taken by a student) he was was checking. There was an essay written by a student on Allama Iqbal. It started with all too common:

HazaaroN saal tak Nargis apni baynoori par roti hay
Bari Mushqil say hota hay chaman maiN deedawar paida.

The essay then started with the sentence:

Hazrat Allama Iqbal, Pakistan kay Qaomi shaa-ir, sun 1877 ko Sialkot maiN barri mushqil say paida hooway.....

Hamidm # 47

Intersting thought ! all i can say in reply is a small joke which might provide the answer.

An english teacher wrote the following words on the black board and asked the class to punctuate it .

Woman without her man is nothing .

The boys in the class wrote

Woman without her man, is nothing .

The girls in the class wrote

Woman ! without her , man is nothing !

regards ,

shirin

p.s. now you can decide for yourself the answer to your querie ! keep smiling ! way to go...

dream on...:) Very cute thought though...

Do domesticated husbands have to shave 6 o clock in the morning everyday? Please advise me of this crucial information. I am trying to plan my future here.

Dear Studebaker . . . I shall surely answer your questions to me but for that I need your email address . . . regards/veeresh

............ just wondering

``If a man is standing in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him...is he still wrong? ``

Farhan,

i whole heartedly second Bina on her comments. Well said Bina , you took the words out of my mouth, so i am not going to get into any lenghthy reply to Farhan.

Shirin

id #23

I am by no means contradicting the reversal of roles.Neither am i gender bias as to sharing household responsibilities and chores.My earlier post was just based on pure observation ,but i could be entirely wrong .

I think we cannot generalise this topic. the case is pretty much individual based. Not everyone is Asif or Hiba !

However it may sound very attractive staying at home , on the outside , but the stress of running a household, catering to the daily needs of children, husband , the wife trying not to forget her own existence at the same time are quite trying .It is far beyond having tea and watching sitcoms on t.v.

Regards,

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hey there bina,

long time no hear...hope all is well. btw when you have a few do check out my new company`s site

www.csquareonline.com

and drop me a line at shakir@csquareonline.com

to let me know how things are going.

best,

shakir

Farhan, all I can say is if that`s what you think it takes to run a household, you obviously have never been in charge of a house in your life. Tell me, while you`re snoozing under your coverlet, do you think magic fairies do the cleaning, the shopping, the laundry, and pick up your wife`s dry-cleaning (because she`s too busy to do it herself, you know)? Add a couple of children to the scenario and see how much time you get to go shopping at the mall with your girlfriends.

Furthermore, if the stay-at-home life is so desirable, how come we don`t see men quitting their jobs in droves and coming home to watch sitcoms at home? The sad truth is that household chores are really gruntwork which men think ``beneath`` their intellect and abilities. Women are seen as a virtual slave class fit for such activities by virtue of their inferior intellgence...and so on and so forth...

Syed Ahmed, you made some very valid observations about the way attitudes are beginning to change amongst the educated classes and the US emigres. However, I would argue that a man making tea for his wife in Cincinnati does not negate or cancel out the following scenarios:

- The rural woman in Sindh who has to do all the household chores and work in the fields while her husband lies around on a charpai drinking lassi all day long

- The lower class woman from Korangi who works as a domestic servant from 9 am to 7 pm, then goes home and relieves her eldest daughters from child care and cooking, while her husband is a drug addict and unable to support his family.

In many cases we see the woman has to take over both the roles: breadwinner and nurturer! We look down, often enough, on African American women who live on welfare, but I fail to see the difference in many of our Pakistani families, where the only real difference is the fact that the man is still sticking around, adding one more mouth to feed to a family that is virtually supported by a woman. Yet none of this equals true empowerment for women, because it is not accompanied by education and changing attitudes.

The rural woman and the urban lower class woman make up 85% of Pakistani society. Upper middle class to upper class, which are the most educated, are a minority in our culture. Granted the piece I wrote described an upper middle class family, but I would not say most of Pakistan`s women have it good.

Furthermore, you argue that women in Pakistan have control over their families. This, I would argue, is not at all true. Most women in Pakistan (again, from the socio economic classes I described) do not have even the most basic control over their own bodies - whether or not to have children - their educations - decided for them by their fathers - or their futures - marriages decided again by families, mostly patriarchal. The ``control`` is all too often merely superficial, such as what brand of washing powder to buy, what to cook for the evening meal, and what clothes to buy for self and children.

Finally, I had a theory that Islam is a true democracy, because if men are to be the leaders of the family, women have the right to ``elect`` them in the sense that they choose who they marry. Unfortunately, we have even taken that right away from women. And it`s up to men to decide what kind of leader they want to be, but too many choose ``dictator`` or ``despot`` over ``president`` of a democracy.

Zahra #33

I was expecting some harsh criticism from your side.

Looks like Meri Shrafat Ke Khauf Se Log Zaban Nahin Kholte.:-)

In Bad taste.:-(

I am thoroughly enjoying your views on feminism and agree.

Bina,

An excellent twist on reality. The simple tone sheathes your derision. Anymore like these?

Mahim.

. . . another husband, another wife?

Initially, I would do my work with no interaction with the men. Then I

learnt their language as half the battle is won when you can speak the

adversary`s language.



They began letting me step into their space. My stint at the shop

floor has been a boon because today I have a greater cross reference

of mechanical industry than Murty. I worked in Jamshedpur and in

Bihar too.



WHEN NARAYAN MURTY PROPOSED TO ME HE SAID, SUDHA I WILL NEVER BE

RICH IN MY LIFE. I CAN NEVER GIVE YOU THE RICHES THAT MONEY

CAN BUY. WILL YOU MARRY ME? ..



It was in Pune that I met Narayan Murty through my friend Prasanna

who is now the Wipro chief, who was also training in Telco.



Most of the books that Prasanna lent me had Murty`s name on them

which meant that I had a preconceived image of the man.



Contrary to expectation, Murty was shy, bespectacled and an

introvert. When he invited us for dinner. I was a bit taken aback

as I thought the young man was making a very fast move. I refused

since I was the only girl in the group. But Murty was relentless

and we all decided to meet for dinner the next day at 7.30 p.m at

Green Fields hotel on the Main Road, Pune. The next day I went there

at 7 o clock since I had to go to the tailor near the hotel. And

what do I see? Mr Murty waiting in front of the hotel and it was

only seven. Till today, Murty maintains that I had mentioned

(consciously!) that I would be going to the tailor at 7 so that I

could meet him. And I maintain that I did not say any such thing

consciously or unconsciously because I did not think of Murty as

anything other than a friend at that stage. We have agreed to disagree

on this matter.



Soon, we became friends. Our conversations were filled with

Murty`s experiences abroad and the books that he has read. My friends

insisted that Murty was trying to impress me because he was

interested

in me. I kept denying it till one fine day, after dinner Murty

said, I want to tell you something. I knew this was it. It was

coming.



He said, I am 5`4`` tall. I come from a lower middle class family.

I can never become rich in my life and I can never give you any riches.

You are beautiful, bright, intelligent and you can get anyone you want.

But will you marry me? I asked Murty to give me some time for an answer.



My father didn`t want me to marry a wannabe politician, (a

communist at that) who didn`t have a steady job and wanted to buildan

orphanage... When I went to Hubli I told my parents about Murty and

his proposal. My mother was positive since Murty was also from karnataka,

seemed intelligent and comes from a good family. But my father asked:



What`s his job, his salary, his qualifications etc? Murty was

working as a research assistant and was earning less than me. He

was willing to go dutch with me on our outings.



My parents agreed to meet Murty in Pune on a particular day at 10

a.m. sharp. Murty did not turn up. How can I trust a man to take care of

my daughter if he cannot keep an appointment, asked my father. At 12

noon Murty turned up in a bright red shirt! He had gone on work to Bombay,

was stuck in a traffic jam on the ghats, so he hired a taxi (though it

was very expensive for him) to meet his would-be father-in-law. My

father was unimpressed. My father asked him what he wanted to become

in life. Murty said he wanted to become a politician in the communist

party and wanted to open an orphanage.



My father gave his verdict. No. I don`t want my daughter to marry

somebody who wants to become a communist and then open an orphanage

when he himself didn`t have money to support his family. Ironically,

today, I have opened many orphanages something which Murty wanted to

do 25 years ago.



By this time I realized I had developed a liking towards Murty

which could only be termed as love. I wanted to marry Murty

because he is an honest man. He proposed to me highlighting the

negatives in his life.



I promised my father that I will not marry Murty without his blessings

though at the same time, I cannot marry anybody else. My father said

he would agree if Murty promised to take up a steady job. But Murty

refused saying he will not do things in life because somebody wanted

him to. So, I was caught between the two most important people in my

life.



The stalemate continued for three years during which our courtship

took us to every restaurant and cinema hall in Pune.



In those days, Murty was always broke. Moreover, he didn`t earn

much to manage. Ironically today, he manages Infosys Technologies Ltd

one of the world`s most reputed companies. He always owed me money.

We used to go for dinner and he would say, I don`t have money with me,

you pay my share, I will return it to you later. For three years I

maintained a book on Murty`s debt to me.



No, he never returned the money and I finally tore it up after my

wedding. The amount was a little over Rs 4000.



During this interim period Murty quit his job as research assistant

and started his own software business. Now, I had to pay his salary

too!



Towards the late 70s computers were entering India in a big way.

During the fag end of 1977 Murty decided to take up a job as General

Manager at Patni Computers in Bombay. But before he joined the

company he wanted to marry me since he was to go on training to the

US after joining.



My father gave in as he was happy Murty had a decent job, now.



WE WERE MARRIED IN MURTY`S HOUSE IN BANGALORE ON FEBRUARY 10, 1978

WITH ONLY OUR TWO FAMILIES PRESENT. I GOT MY FIRST SILK SARI. THE

WEDDING EXPENSES CAME TO ONLY RS 800 (US $ 17) WITH MURTY AND I POOLING

IN RS 400 EACH.



I went to the US with Murty after marriage. Murty encouraged

me to see America on my own because I loved travelling. I toured America

for three months on backpack and had interesting experiences which will

remain fresh in my mind forever. Like the time when I was taken into

custody by the New York police because they thought I was an Italian

trafficking drugs in Harlem. Or the time when I spent the night at

the bottom of the Grand Canyon with an old couple. Murty panicked

because he couldn`t get a response from my hotel room even at midnight.

He thought I was either killed or kidnapped.



IN 1981 MURTY WANTED TO START INFOSYS. HE HAD A VISION AND ZERO

CAPITAL... initially I was very apprehensive bout Murty getting into

business. We did not have any business background. Moreover we were

living a comfortable life in Bombay with a regular pay check and I

didn`t want to rock the boat. But Murty was passionate about

creating good quality software. I decided to support him. Typical of

Murty, he just had a dream and no money. So I gave him Rs 10,000 which

I had saved for a rainy day, without his knowledge and told him, This

is all I have. Take it. I give you three years sabbatical leave. I

will take care of the financial needs of our house. You go and chase

your dreams without any worry.



But you have only three years!.



Murty and his six colleagues started Infosys in 1981, with

enormous interest and hard work. In 1982 I left Telco and moved to

Pune with Murty. We bought a small house on loan which also became the

Infosys office. I was a clerk-cum-cook-cum-programmer. I also took up a

job as Senior Systems Analyst with Walchand group of Industries to

support the house. In 1983 Infosys got their first client, MICO, in

Bangalore.



Murty moved to Bangalore and stayed with his mother while I went to

Hubli to deliver my second child, Rohan. Ten days after my son was

born, Murty left for the US on project work. I saw him only after a

year as I was unable to join Murty in the US because my son had

infantile eczema, an allergy to vaccinations. So for more than a year

I did not step outside our home for fear of my son contracting an

infection. It was only after Rohan got all his vaccinations that I came

to Bangalore where we rented a small house in Jayanagar and rented

another

house as Infosys headquarters. My father presented Murty a scooter

to commute. I once again became a cook, programmer, clerk, secretary,

office assistant Nandan Nilekani (MD of Infosys) and his wife Rohini stayed

with us. While Rohini baby sat my son, I wrote programmes for Infosys.



There was no car, no phone, just two kids and a bunch of us working

hard, juggling our lives and having fun while Infosys was taking

shape. It was not only me but the wives of other partners too who

gave their unstinted support. We all knew that our men were trying to

build something good. It was like a big joint family, taking care

and looking out for one another. I still remember Sudha Gopalakrishna

looking after my daughter Akshata with all care and love while

Kumari Shibulal cooked for all of us.



Murty made it very clear that it would either be me or him working

at Infosys. Never the two of us together... I was involved with Infosys

initially. Nandan Nilekani suggested I should be on the Board but Murty

said he did not want a husband and wife team at Infosys.

I was shocked since I had the relevant experience and technical

qualifications. He said, Sudha if you want to work with Infosys, I

will withdraw, happily. I was pained to know that I will not be involved

in the company my husband was building and that I would have to give

up a job that I am qualified to do and love doing. It took me a couple

of days to grasp the reason behind Murty`s request. I realised

that to make Infosys a success one had to give one`s 100 percent. One

had to be focussed on it alone with no other distractions. If the two

of us had to give 100 percent to Infosys then what would happen to our

home and our children? One of us had to take care of our home while

the other took care of Infosys. I opted to be a homemaker, after all

Infosys was Murty`s dream. It was a big sacrifice but it was one that

had to be made.



Even today, Murty says, Sudha, I stepped on your career to make

mine. You are responsible for my success.



I might have given up my career for my husband`s sake. But that

does not make me a doormat... Many think that I have been made the

sacrificial lamb at Narayan Murty`s altar of success. A few women

journalists have even accused me of setting a wrong example by giving

up my dreams to make my husbands a reality. Isnt freedom about living

your life the way you want it? What is right for one person might be

wrong for another. It is up to the individual to make a choice that

is effective in her life. I feel that when a woman gives up her right

to choose for herself is when she crosses over from being an individual

to a doormat. Murty`s dreams encompassed not only himself but a

generation of people. It was about founding something worthy, exemplary

and honorable. It was about creation and distribution of wealth. His

dreams were grander than my career plans, in all aspects. So, when I

had to choose between Murty`s career and mine, I opted for what I

thought was a right choice.



We had a home and two little children. Measles, mumps, fractures,

PTA meetings, wants and needs of growing children do not care much for

grandiose dreams. They just needed to be attended to. Somebody had to

take care of it all. Somebody had to stay back to create a home

base that would be fertile for healthy growth, happiness, and more

dreams to dream. I became that somebody willingly.



I can confidently say that if I had had a dream like Infosys,

Murty would have given me his unstinted support. The roles would have

been

reversed. We are not bound by the archaic rules of marriage. I cook

for him but I don`t wait up to serve dinner like a traditional wife.

So, he has no hassles about heating up the food and having his

dinner. He does not intrude into my time especially when I am writing my

novels. He does not interfere in my work at the Infosys Foundation and

I don`t interfere with the running of Infosys. I teach Computer Science

to MBA and MCA students at Christ college for a few hours every week and

I earn around Rs 50,000 a year. I value this financial independence

greatly though there is no need for me to pursue a teaching career.

Murty respects that. I travel all over the world without Murty because he

hates travelling. We trust each other implicitly. We have another

understanding too. While he earns the money, I spend it, mostly through

the charity. Philanthropy is a profession and an art... The Infosys

Foundation was born in 1997 with the sole objective of uplifting the

less-privileged sections of society. IN THE PAST THREE YEARS WE HAVE

BUILT HOSPITALS, ORPHANAGES, REHABILITATION CENTRES, SCHOOL BUILDINGS,

SCIENCE CENTRES AND MORE THAN 3500 LIBRARIES. Our work is mainly in the

rural areas amongst women and children. I am one of the trustees and

our activities span six states including Karnataka, Tamil Nadu,

Andhra, Orissa, Chandigarh and Maharashtra. I travel to around 800

villages constantly. Infosys Foundation has a minimal staff of three trustees

and three office members. We all work very hard to achieve our

goals and that is the reason why Infosys Foundation has a distinct

identity.



Every year we donate around Rs 5-6 crore (Rs 50 - 60 million). We

run Infosys Foundation the way Murty runs Infosys in a professional

and scientific way. Philanthropy is a profession and an art. It can

be used or misused. We slowly want to increase the donations and

we dream of a time when Infosys Foundation could donate large amounts

of money. Every year we receive more than 10,000 applications for

donations. Everyday I receive more than 120 calls. Amongst these,

there are those who genuinely need help and there are hood winkers too.



I receive letters asking me to donate Rs five lakh to someone

because five lakh is, like peanuts to Infosys. Some people write to

us asking for free Infosys shares. Over the years I have learnt to

differentiate the wheat from the chaff, though I still give a patient

hearing to all the cases. Sometimes I feel I have lost the ability

to trust people. I have become shrewder to avoid being conned. It

saddens me to realise that even as a person is talking to me I try to

analyse them:

Has he come here for any donation? Why is he praising my work or

enquiring about my health, does he want some money from me? Eight out

of ten times I am right. They do want my money. But I feel bad for the

other two whom I suspected. I think that is the price that I have to

pay for the position that I am in now. The greatest difficulty in

having money is teaching your children the value of it and trying

to keep them on a straight line... Bringing up children in a

moneyed atmosphere is a difficult task. EVEN TODAY I THINK TWICE IF

I HAVE TO SPEND RS 10 ON AN AUTO WHEN I CAN WALK UP TO MY HOUSE. I

cannot expect my children to do the same.



They have seen money from the time they were born. But we can lead

by example. When they see Murty wash his own plate after eating and

clean the two toilets in the house everyday they realise that no

work is demeaning irrespective of how rich you are.



I DON`T HAVE A MAID AT HOME BECAUSE I DON`T SEE THE NEED FOR

ONE. When children see both parents working hard, living a simple

life, most of the time they tend to follow. This doesn`t mean we

expect our children to live an austere life. My children buy what

they want and go where they want but they have to follow certain

rules. They will have to show me a bill for whatever they buy. My

daughter can buy five new outfits but she has to give away five old

ones. My son can go out with his friends for lunch or dinner but if he

wants to go to a five star hotel, we discourage it. Or we accompany

him.



So far my children haven`t given me any heartbreak. They are good

children. My eldest daughter is studying abroad, whereas my son is

studying in Bangalore. They don`t use their father`s name in vain.

If asked, they only say that his name is Murty and that he works for

Infosys. They don`t want to be recognised and appreciated because

of their father or me but for themselves.



I DON`T FEEL GUILTY ABOUT HAVING MONEY FOR WE HAVE WORKED HARD FOR

IT. BUT I DON`T FEEL COMFORTABLE FLAUNTING IT ...IT IS A CONSCIOUS

DECISION ON OUR PART TO LIVE A SIMPLE, SO-CALLED MIDDLE CLASS

LIFE. WE LIVE IN THE SAME TWO-BEDROOM, SPARSELY FURNISHED HOUSE

BEFORE INFOSYS BECAME A SUCCESS.



Our only extravagance is buying books and CDs. MY HOUSE HAS NO

LOCKERS FOR I HAVE NO JEWELS. I WEAR A STONE EARRING WHICH I

BOUGHT IN BOMBAY FOR RS 100 I don`t even wear my mangalsutra

until I attend some family functions or I am with my mother-in-law.

I am not fond of jewellery or saris. Five years ago, I went to Kashi

where tradition demands that you give up something and I gave up

shopping. Since then I haven`t bought myself a sari or gone shopping.

It is my friends who gift me with saris. Murty bought me a sari a long

time ago. It was not to my taste and I told him to refrain from

buying saris for me in the future. I am no good at selecting men`s

clothes either. It is my daughter who does the shopping for us. I still

have the same sofa at home which my daughter wants to change. However,

we have indulged ourselves with each one having their own music system

and computer.



I don`t carry a purse and neither does Murty most of the time. I

do tell him to keep some small change with him but he doesn`t. I borrow

money from my secretary or my driver if I need cash. They know

my habit so they always carry extra cash with them. But I settle the

accounts every evening. MURTY AND I ARE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH OUR

LIFESTYLE AND WE DON`T SEE THE NEED TO CHANGE IT NOW THAT WE HAVE

MONEY.



Murty and I are two opposites that complement each other...

Murty is sensitive and romantic in his own way. He always gifts me books

addressed to From Me to You. Or to the person I most admire etc. We

both love books. We are both complete opposites. I am an extrovert

and he is an introvert. I love watching movies and listening to

classical music. Murty loves listening to English classical music.

I go out for movies with my students and secretary every other week.

I am still young at heart. I really enjoyed watching ``Kaho Na Pyaar Hai``

and I am a Hrithik Roshan fan. It has been more than 20 years

since Murty and I went for a movie. My daughter once gave us a

surprise by booking tickets for ``Titanic``. Since I had a prior

engagement that day, Murty went for the movie with his secretary Pandu.

I love travelling whereas Murty loves spending time at home.



Friends come and go with the share prices... Even in my dreams, I

did not expect Infosys to grow like the way it has. I don`t think even

Murty envisioned this phenomenal success, at least not in 1981. After

Infosys went public in 1993, we became what people would call as

rich, moneyed people. I was shocked to see what was happening to

Infosys and to us. Suddenly you see and hear about so much money.

Your name and photo is splashed in the papers. People talk about you.

It was all new to me.



SUDDENLY I HAVE PEOPLE WALKING UP TO ME SAYING, OH, WE WERE SUCH

GOOD FRIENDS, WE HAD A MEAL 25 YEARS AGO. THEY CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN

PRESENT AT OUR WEDDING (WHICH IS AN UTTER LIE BECAUSE ONLY MY FAMILY

WAS PRESENT AT MY WEDDING). I DON`T EVEN KNOW ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO

CLAIM TO KNOW MURTY AND ME SO WELL.

But that doesn`t mean I don`t have true friends. I do have

genuine friends, a handful, who have been with me for a very long time.

My equation with these people has not changed and vice versa.

I am also very close to Narayan Murty`s family, especially my

sister-in-law Kamala Murty, a school teacher, who is more of a dear

friend to me. I have discovered that these are the few relationships

and friendships that don`t fluctuate depending on the price of

Infosys shares.



Have I lost my identity as a woman, in Murty`s shadow?...



No. I might be Mrs Narayan Murty. I might be Akshata and Rohan`s

mother. I might be the trustee of Infosys Foundation. But I am

still Sudha. I play different roles like all women. That doesn`t

mean we don`t have our own identity. Women have that extra quality of

adaptability and learn to fit into different shoes. But we are our own

selves still. And we have to exact our freedom by making the right

choices in our lives, dictated by us and not by the world.