Is IT the Panacea?

Amir # 55

Honor killings part of Islamic jurisprudence? Is that the kind of `pure justice` that fills you up with pride?

Also, why compare Pakistani newspapers with Sanskrit texts? Won`t a better comparison be with Indian newspapers?

I share your admiration of Razia Sultan. As an Indian, I consider her to be an illustrious part of my heritage.

Zahra and Scout

I am sick and tired of the rantings from both of you. When am I gonna see some action? I think both of you need to teach each other a good lesson. Keep in mind that I am always on your side-right behind you, watching.

Romair[Post 50]:

Thanks for the informative post. It would be great if you can also post this information at www.iopwe.org`s forum - of course with your following comments:

``So for the Pakistan women who complain that enough isn`t being done in Pakistan for their fellow women, here is your opportunity to volunteer. The address to contact, that I was given, is stars@comsats.net.pk.``


Take Care.

studebaker #56

What you say about Jews, Christians and Hindus may all be true. Your ability to smell words from Organiser,Sword of truth,Hindu Net ,Hindu Org,Hindunity may also be most praiseworthy.

But studebaker, the article has nothing to do with Islam - it is about India and Buddhism. And since you are commenting upon it with some passion, will it not be better if you carefully read the article once? This one is NOT a long article.

To make it easier, the url is:

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2001-03-21.htm

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Re: scout

``Please stop before some idiot comes and twists your defense into something else.``

Right, sorry about that. Was just too tempting to pass up but I should know better.

Tum log jaano aur tumhara kaam jaane.

Zahra #51,

Where in my post #1 did I ``yell?``

I calmly gave my opinion which you obviously didn`t like (so be it).



I don`t believe I was rude to you, until you started calling my posts rantings for some reason.

You never had a problem with them before.

Anyway, I agree to end this discussion since it is going nowhere but down.

Rsaxena #49,

Please stop before some idiot comes and twists your defense into something else. And I don`t have to defend myself, the message in my post is crystal clear. And you know what, the people who wanted to get it, GOT it, and the people who didn`t (Zahra) passed it off as a ranting. I think I`m ok with it, it`s her prerogative. I don`t agree with some of her posts, but I refrain from making a scene out of it, or putting her down. Anyway....

My apologies to Q. Daudpota for these stupid series of interacts.

Studebaker

You are not all wrong about The Atlantic. It does publish long articles. Also, some of their writers are pro-Israel.

Similarly, many Indian teachers do seem to use the length of a written submission as a measure of its worth [though, I doubt many students in India or elsewhere often turn in work of the quality matching that of the Atlantic articles :)! ]

Nonetheless, Karen is well-versed in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. She has written highly sympathetic accounts of Islam and Prophet Muhammad. If she has been criticized for anything it has been for being too quick to defend everything Islamic. Don`t dismiss her so soon.

Scout:

I sincerely appreciate your sermon!

Probably, you should LEARN how to interact by ``illustrating`` your point than yelling and rudely[uncouthly]putting it forth. I find that to be a hallmark of your interactions. Sorry, it is not worth my time to engage in a discussion with you! Different priorities! Humor is one thing; but tolerating rudeness and uncouthness is not my cup of tea. Probably, you should try to apply your sermon to your ownself first!!! It may help.

E.O.D!
Take Care.

Just received the following email, from a friend, who received it from his sister, who is a member of some committe related to IT development for women for Dr. Ata. Apparently it is related to a volunteer women`s IT group.

So for the Pakistan women who complain that enough isn`t being done in Pakistan for their fellow women, here is your opportunity to volunteer. The address to contact, that I was given, is stars@comsats.net.pk.



friends, this is just the initial brainwave regarding the initiative by the govt. to put women in the forefront of IT devp. in the country and to have them be identified as a significant resource group. detailed terms of reference will evolve. the email below has been put together by a member of the IT commission who is guiding this effort.

pls. comment and, more specifically, pls. identify/forward to pakistani women (and men) who you feel can contribute in a concrete manner, such as working on the development of a website, or providing specific guidelines for growing and using women`s talent in this area. the best candidates would be people who have had specific experience of developing this resource in other countries or in other projects.

i look forward to your comments.

samina



-----Original Message-----

From:

Ladies:

We have been discussing this very important issue since a long time but no real progress has come about so far. You may however see in different interviews by Dr. Atta ur Rahman, that he is determined to bring Women into the forefront!

Get ready for a long e-mail!

Essentially, (I believe) this has been due a lack of ownership by the very people concerned with this sector! In the meantime, several working groups, forums, task forces are operational or are being formed. All these, initially, are volunteer groups who help shape the direction and steer this to a project state. The need to make it a volunteer based initiative, is to make the participation agonistic to the official titles, pressures and hopefully bias toward individual institutions.

We have groups (some under formation) on:

Health, Agriculture, GIS, Chip Design, Telecommunications, Educational content and Networks, Call Centres, M.T.,Computers in Schools..., Network security, e-Government, e-commerce, Venture Capital, Internet - PISOC , Operating systems - LINUX, Urdu & Regional Languages

...and now Women in IT!

The way this is Institutionalized and implemented is that

Inputs taken from key professionals and business people - predominantly, the private sector

Then converted to standard Government processes for implementation

Implementation is done via Provinces, concerned Ministries, institutions eligible for this or using the a transparent process, implemented via the Private Sector

I believe that this is a very powerful combination, hopefully, providing ownership, continuity, sustainability and transparency.

The most recent example is the formation of the Urdu and Regional Language Software development Forum. This is now going from its volunteer phase to actual implementation and an initial sum of Rs. 29 M is being provided for it.

The volunteer group essentially spends their own time and only those with a passion for the task, continue. I have seen may initial enthusiasts fall by the wayside, when concerted work is needed.

Ms. Shazia has offered to volunteer to lead this effort. She has excellent credentials to her credit. She is Psychologist, is very IT literate, knows her way around the Government and methods, commands respect of her peers and is liked by her students. She has also worked on projects like Multimedia in distance Learning, etc. She is the Registrar at the Fatima Jinnah Womens` University.

However, like I said earlier, this has more to do with personal commitments than the institution the person comes from. But in this case it certainly helps the effort and the University, since there will be a pool of girls and women available who could perhaps be involved in Projects which help both in the training as well as in providing support to your initiative. Fatima Jinnah University is lead by a very dynamic person, Prof. Dr. Najma Najam and that certainly helps!

I am copying this mail to a limited number of women who have been in the loop sometime or the other and I believe are quite committed to the idea. The best thing will be is to make fully functional teams in each city and co-ordinate via the team in Islamabad. E-Mail is the best medium. Perhaps you may like to set up a Web page to get inputs as well as to spread the word.

Zuneria Durrani has offered to head the Karachi chapter and perhaps you can get key people in different cities. One word of caution, do ask the people who volunteer if there are any needs for them to get some form of NOCs from their companies and organizations, since this may be a stumbling blocks in their participation. But do clarify the fact that no one will actually represent anyone, but herself (or himself, if your honorary members who are males!).

The first step is to write the Terms of Reference and I will provide you templates as we go along.

This is a very exciting task but will need many hours of selfless labour with only the promise of having contributed your bit for helping Pakistan come out of the current mess it is in.

Good Luck

re ROmair #36:

The gist of my post as Syed Ahmed correctly inferred was simply to point out the inadequacy of government machinations when it comes to effecting real change be it economic,political or social. Now to get back to your post.

IT universities be they 7 or 700 is the sort of brain wave you`d expect from the cause and effect mandarins of IMF or ministry of science of technology. Indians did well in IT because they are naturally good at math and science not becuase there are assembly lines of oracle programmers in the Indian heartland. The concept of setting up an IT university is akin to setting up vocational schools to teach Autocad or car-repairs. If one really wants to develop skills required in the IT arena, strengthen the basic educational delivery mechanisms. Divert the 70% of the budget demarcated for IT to improving/setting up engineering schools across the country. The 7 IT universities will end up as nothing more than glorified trade schools teaching Java for the rest of their existence while the rest of the world moves on to the next big thing. I`ll give you an example of vocational institutes set up in various Paksitani cities with German assistance. These institutes have been teaching trades like refrigeration and gas welding since the 70s. Some of them barely enroll 5 or 10 students per year with staffs that is easily in the 100s!! The 7 IT universities will become white elephants teaching outmoded skills with no relevance to the marketplace. If you are insistent that we should have Oracle assembly lines then let the private sector do that. They have to make money(unlike the govt.). They can be more nimble and agile in conforming to the rapidly changing environment.

As far as naming `jaded` technocrats. My dear name one who isn`t? My allusion to golden parachutes was in context of the groupies that surround his excellency the technology minister. Anyone remember the golden days of power generation and deregulation in the Benazir era? There is an eerie similarity between those times and this one. The Shahid Hassans of those days have been replaced by equally smooth operators swarming around the powers that be. For illustrative purposes read the filings by the SEC against one of our Bill Gates who happened to be the CEO of Enpointe technlogies. The ``dedicated`` team of professionals that surrounds the erstwhile minister is not on some noble mission of paying back the motherland. Wait for a few more months till stories of the exaction of their pound of flesh start appearing publicly.

``What can Dr. Ata do about Morgan Stanley?``

If only he(and I suspect you) understood that, that would make for a very happy ending. A rot set at the macro level with the khakis running the country directly or indirectly since its inception cannot be stemmed by a mere Professor of Chemistry. I am glad at least you recognised that an expert in one area can be equally knowledgeable in another but he is fighting the wrong enemy with the wrong set of weapons.

I diagree with your(and most Pakistanis) obsession with finding the ``right`` leadership. Leadership cannot come out of kakul or Harvard. Everyone in todays age is a leader of one. No one else knows better about running my life than myself. Get government out of the life of every Pakistani and let him figure out his own destiny. It can`t be as bad as it has been for the last 53 years...can it?

As for my Irish example, I was comparing Pakistan to the sick man of Europe before its present prosperity. I hope and pray you are right as for its future.

later

-sac

Re: Zahra

I agree with your post on ``illustrating a point.`` But (I can`t believe I am defending scout of all people) I think the idea she was trying to communicate was that any IT success should not benefit only a few who are already wealthy anyway - this polarization of wealth is a common feature in South Asia.

And no, I haven`t seen the play. Quite frankly I am uncultured when it comes to enjoying Broadway plays. Reminds me of nautankis we had in India. At least those had neat tricks and slapstick humor besides the random song-n-dance in funny costumes.

Scout, please defend yourself.

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Zahra #42,

So should I stop writing my opinion here based on what you think is right or wrong? What is the purpose of an interact board? Is it only for Pakistani infrastructure analysts, or the general public?

We all interact here with different ideals and opinions, and dismissing someone`s ideas in the manner that you do shows your ``intellectual`` snobbery, not wisdom.

You could learn a thing or two from bahmad and Ras Siddiqui, two people I respect here the most, whom I`ve never seen being rude or patronizing to anyone, regardless of their age.

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